Shit eating grin

[Augie]

shit-eating grin
A broad smile indicating a joyous secret.
<Insert photo of Dennis Quaid.>

Does anyone know the origins of this marvelously descriptive phrase?
It would seem more natural to say "shit-eating grimace", but perhaps the real secret is anything disgusting done secretly is enjoyable?

Discuss.

[Alessan]

I'm not sure, but I'd look for a military origin. It sounds like something a D.I. would say.

[Colibri]

I had always imagined it was related to expression, "Happy as a pig in shit."

[mrklutz]

I have no cite, but I was always led to believe that it was the sort of grin where you're smiling so wide that your lips don't touch your teeth at all -- the same as you would be inclined to do if your teeth were covered in shit.

[chappachula]

as long as we're all guessing, I'll add my own theory:

I always thought that a shit-eating grin differs from a regular grin because it is bigger , and obviously fake--i.e. not a natural reaction.
You grin and smile naturally at a funny joke. You grin and smile non-naturally when you have something to hide. The more embarrassing your secret, the wider your grin. (Think of a young child, caught red-handed with a pilfered cookie)

And there ain't many secrets more embarrassing than having to hide the fact that you just ate shit. .

Ergo--a shit eating grin.


I rest my case.
Carry on.

[EmeraldGrue]

Originally Posted by mrklutz

I have no cite, but I was always led to believe that it was the sort of grin where you're smiling so wide that your lips don't touch your teeth at all -- the same as you would be inclined to do if your teeth were covered in shit.

Then he grinned, like a fox eating shit from a barbed-wire fence.
- American Gods, Neil Gaiman

Always wondered what that meant. Your explanation makes a lot of sense mrklutz.

[Can Handle the Truth]

I apologise in advance for a post that might offend Asians, but I have always heard this phrase in a military context, especially in reference to Asians. It is because some Japanese, Korean or Vietnamese people (depending on the war) would appear to grin at inappropriate times, such as when undergoing some form of verbal, mental, or physical abuse.

[jnglmassiv]

Whaaa..
You guys are way off..
Imagine you have a secret shit eating habit. You sneak off to the men's room at work and munch on a juicy one. All of a sudden, the boss and a client walk in and catch you in the act. Busted, no denying it.

All you can do is grin like an idiot..a shit eating grin.

[SallyCan'tDance]

I'm also just guessing, but I thought that a shit-eating grin is what someone does when they're sucking up to another person in order to get something from them. That is, they're matphorically taking their shit, so they have to put on a fake, self-deprecating expression; a shit-eating grin. Like thus:

[SallyCan'tDance]

metaphorically.
Carry on!

[Nunavut Boy]

Imagine a situation where you are gloating big time. You've got this big, dumb smile on and you're thinking to yourself (about the person you're gloating at) "This bastard can just eat my shit."

Voila! Shit eating grin.

[Tapioca Dextrin]

It's been asked before, but we came up with a complete blank.

[wolf_meister]

Nunavut
That's an interesting derivation. (I never heard of any of these by the way).
Also, I always thought the definition of such a grin was exactly as you describe it - smug, self-satisfied, "I'm better than you are" attitude.

[kniz]

I always thought that it was directly connected to the expression "He's grinning like a opossum eating shit."

[Nunavut Boy]

Originally Posted by wolf_meister

Nunavut
That's an interesting derivation. (I never heard of any of these by the way).
Also, I always thought the definition of such a grin was exactly as you describe it - smug, self-satisfied, "I'm better than you are" attitude.

Yes. Well, of course I agree!

[Spoke]

Originally Posted by mrklutz

I have no cite, but I was always led to believe that it was the sort of grin where you're smiling so wide that your lips don't touch your teeth at all -- the same as you would be inclined to do if your teeth were covered in shit.

That's the way I've always understood it as well.

[KP]

While I can't explain the popularity of the specific phrase (vs. other types of grin) , adding a touch of meaningless vulgarity often adds public appeal to a phrase. You can coin any number of logical and apt alliteration on a Holmesian theme, but none will have the staying power of "No shit, Sherlock"

For that matter, the expression "No shit" itself is a semantically void replacement for the onomatopoeic "Duh!' and "Doy!". It has no obvious connection to

"Shit" used to be a much stronger word, which may help explain its initial popularity. Which do you think would be more evocative and memorable: "a leg-humping grin" or a "sheep-f***ing grin"?

I suppose my point -which applies to many colloquialism threads- is that phrases often gain popularity for reasons aside from their meaning. While we might have briefly asked ourselves "What shit?, we understood the meaning from context --and so did everyone else. Trying to construct an etymology is pointless because there may never have been one. No one will turn up a missing manuscript for Doyle's "The Case of the Coprological Feast" -- and even if they do, the fact that it was previously unknown effectively rules it out as the genuine origin of the public phrase.

Even if there was a published origin, I'd argue that the correct answer to "why do we say X" is "because it's catchy" -- not "because it appeared in a twelfth century treatise on natural history". When it comes to common phrases, the "popularity" is key (who cares about a phrase like "sheep sneakers" that may just as valid, but limited to a single person?), and meaning is secondary. Catchiness is the one true "reason", not some etymology that is unknown to almost all users anyway.

[Loopydude]

I dunno. I agree that many people can use such colorful colloquialisms with complete ignorance of their origins and intended meaning circa their invention; but I think the deeper etymological questions are still valid enough. Somebody first spake the words "shit-eating grin", and likely had a vivid intention and meaning they wished to convey. It may be a worn-down version of a much more explicit phrase (e.g. the opossum etymology above). "Catchy" explains pereptuation, but I think these phrases have more to them than random juxtaposition of vulgarities for the sole purpose of visceral impact.

[KP]

Excellent parody of my pompous posting style, Loopydude! Truly the soul of understated wit (and your factual argument is well taken, BTW).

I don't know why I often post that way here (Only three sites bring that out in me. The other two are decidedly casual, but since I'm an old-timer there, and quick with a pun or dirty joke, they put up with me)

[Loopydude]

Wow. Er, actually no parody was intended; rather I was trying to rise to your level. I post with a lot of crass and imprecise language here, and forcing myself to occasionally use my brain when I write is good mental excercise, IMO. Not to gush, but I admire people who can write, and would do better to emulate them more often.

[Excalibre]

I can't see it as embarrassed or insane. A shit-eating grin, as described above, is smug beyond anything else. I've always sort of thought of it as a grin so self-satisfied that when you see it, all you can think is, "Eat shit, fucker!"

[Augie]

Lots of interesting answers.
It would be interesting to find out what year the term was coined and the context for it.
I'm guessing it's a southern good ol' boy term, they have a lot of great ones.

[kniz]

Since it is obvious that nobody took my first reply seriously, I feel I must explain why my answer completely explains the meaning of a "shit eating grin."
First it is necessary to define a "shit eating grin". It is as follows:
At a church party, Ms. Lulu gets glassy eyed and starts giggling. Someone askes "Okay, who spiked Ms. Lulu's punch?" Everyone looks around and someone says "Look at that shit eating grin on Sam's face". Even though that isnt a nice thing to say in church everyone recognizes after seeing the smile on Sam's face that he is the guilty person. Sam should have tried to surpress the grin, but he couldn't help it. He's caught and can't deny it.
Now picture an opossum. It has the appearance of having the exact kind of smile on its face. It is an animal that we all consider repulsive, since it is not only ugly but it is a scavenger. It eats things that we wouldn't eat. There really isn't anything that an opossum can do that it shouldn't do, except eat shit. Even an opossum shouldn't do that.
Now picture that you're driving down the road and in your head-lights you see an opossum and he is eating shit. He will still have that look on his face, because he couldn't help it.
So Sam couldn't help having that look on his face and the opossum can't help having that look on his face. That is why that look is called a Shit Eating Grin.

[jnglmassiv]

That was what I said..
Busted, no denying, no good reason.

[samclem]

No helpful thoughts, just letting you know that OED has it first from 1957.

[Bites When Provoked]

Another one of those occasions where I realize I've just assumed I was right and never thought there might be an alternative explanation.

See, I've always figured it was based around babies.

Ever seen a baby that's done the delve-into-the-nappy trick and painted the wall, the crib... and smeared it around their mouths? I'd always assumed a 'shit-eating grin' referred to the baby's wide-mouthed expression of pure glee.

Frankly, I'm kind of relieved to hear a less disgusting interpretation.

Babies are gross, m'kay?

[pokey]

Since it's a guessing game, I thought it meant you were so happy you could eat shit and still grin. You are smiling, it is either inappropriate or not obviously called for. If you won the lottery and nobody knew, and then you had to eat shit, you would still smile. Nobody can do anything to ruin your happiness, even if they made you eat shit.

There is only one time when someone would smile and eat shit, and that's if they had some great news inside that made it all okay. So when you see someone smiling despite the fact that you wouldn't expect them to be, you know they must have some secret reason for grinning, and you think, "she doesn't care, she could be eating shit right now and she'd still be smiling." That's a shit-eating smile.

I don't think it is the smile of someone who secretly ate shit and enjoyed it. It is the other way around. Eating shit would not spoil their happiness.