Ohio conservatives seek to control all academic curriculums, public or private

[ITR_champion]

http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2005/02/12/academic/index.html

Legislation being considered by the Ohio legislature punishes professors at any college or university if they do or say anything that the government doesn’t approve of.

The proposal in Ohio to create an academic “bill of rights” would prohibit public and private college professors from presenting opinions as fact or penalizing students for expressing their views. Professors would not be allowed to introduce controversial material unrelated to the course.

To state the obvious, any statement is regarded as opinion rather than fact by somebody, and any material could be regarded as controversial, and anything can be regarded as unrelated to the course if you define the goals of the course narrowly enough. To me it looks like a bad idea. I’ve always been raised on the assumption that a good education must include exposure to controversial material.

[Bryan_Ekers]

I agree with the part about not penalizing students, but avoiding controversy in University is like avoiding violence at a boxing match; it’s purpose-defeating.

[SteveG1]

There already is, and always has been, a problem with SOME teachers who push their opinions as fact while punishing differing opinions. If this was just an unofficial “statement of intent” or “informal Big Dummy’s Guide to Honesty” the first part of it would be ok. But, it is not the government’s place to tell us what truth is. The whole idea is laughable, in the hollow despairing bordering on insanity sort of way.
Now the part that outlaws any controversial material, that is “the biggest load of pig crap I’ve ever seen”. I don’t want Big Brother deciding that at ALL.

We are at war with Oceania. We are at peace with Oceania. The Ministry of Truth. “Who Are The Brain Police”- Frank Zappa.

[even_sven]

Heck, I think even the part about penalizing students is pretty crappy. Yeah, a kid shouldn’t be knocked down a couple grades for raising their hand and saying they like George Bush. But often the opinions people want to express are things like “this paper is bullshit” or “the entire lit major is bullshit”, which- unless properly supported by research and the themes of the course- are not really acceptle.

[Wesley_Clark]

I have had 27 professors in my college career and only one was liberal. And he only said 3 or 4 things throughout the semester. And if a person is so mentally malleable that a handful of statements by a handful of professors can change their views on international and domestic policy then you have a much more serious problem on your hands. I was talking to my mom last night and I told her that she is exposed to far more political propaganda in one hour of Hannity and Colmes than I have been exposed to in 3 years in college from my professors (more like 5 minutes of hannity & colmes). She didn’t care, she probably wasn’t even listening.

Its probably more the nature of youth to lean towards liberalism (for them to see the injustices in the world and want to fight them out of some internal fear because they will soon have to enter this unjust world) than anything done by the professors.

I find this sad that this anti-liberal bill was originally an idea by David Horowitz and its supported by the Republicans in Ohio and its supposed to be about tolerance. Are people that deluded.

[Frank]

They tried to do this in Colorado a year or two ago. Tied into it was a requirement that universities hire more conservative teachers. It died.

No time to google right now, but I believe a guy named Horowitz is the driver behind this sort of thing.

[My_Darn_Snake_Legs]

@Wesley Clark

And if a person is so mentally malleable that a handful of statements by a handful of professors can change their views on international and domestic policy then you have a much more serious problem on your hands.

Man, you haven’t ever taught college freshmen have you? They are putty in your hands. I teach philosophy and, for some kids, making those hamster-wheels in their heads move is a constant struggle. They would rather just write down what you say than raise their hand and hollar “Cite!?”

That being said, I sure don’t want the government to get involved in the colllege class. They have no place there. I very seldom heard propaganda in my classes in college and those few times were during the days following 9-11.

Man, BGSU has a reputation for Libertarianism and I think it’s catching:eek:…I need to go down some antibiotics!

[sleeping]

It’s simply horrific that people are actually considering regulating speech in private institutions.

As for state colleges, I don’t really see the point. Most professors who proselytize quickly gain a reputation and students stop registering for their classes.

I wonder if a professor who taught a lecture course and did not have time to address any questions would be in violation of this legislation.

[ITR_champion]

If it did pass, I think the result would be that professors would cut down on the number of classes with an open discussion component and go with more lecture-only formats. If anything that gets said could potentially lead to legal trouble, the obvious response is to arrange things so that the professor controls everything that gets said. And thus the supposed victims who are supposedly trembling in their seats from academic bias would have even less opportunity to speak their minds.

[jayjay]

@My Darn Snake Legs

Man, you haven’t ever taught college freshmen have you? They are putty in your hands. I teach philosophy and, for some kids, making those hamster-wheels in their heads move is a constant struggle. They would rather just write down what you say than raise their hand and hollar “Cite!?”

“Jefferson is the Anti-Christ! Democracy is fascism! Black is white! Night is day!”

[Abbie_Carmichael]

@sleeping

As for state colleges, I don’t really see the point. Most professors who proselytize quickly gain a reputation and students stop registering for their classes.

Not always. If Dr. Connie the Communist Sympathizer is the only professor that teaches the capstone course to your major, you’re either going to take her or not graduate. (IIRC, most universities don’t allow seniors to transfer in.)

This doesn’t just apply to proselytizing professors, either. Some of them are just plain evil, and the only reason they’re still there is tenure. They might be the only person to teach the one math class you need to graduate: whadyagonnado?

This argument could be avoided if we’d just get rid of tenure. That way, if a professor is being particularly assholish about pushing their politics and/or intimidating students that disagree, they’d be out.

I’ve had jerk professors who used the lectern as a bully pulpit, and then I have had calm, rational professors whose politics are opposite mine. I had liberal professors who were frantic around the election, and into the class I’d stroll, wearing my Bush button – and they didn’t treat me any differently, either. I knew what they were thinking, they knew what I was thinking, and that was it, no problems. All universities need professors like that, liberal AND conservative.

If a professor knows they can never get fired, what’s to stop them from turning the class into their own little indoctrination center? Take away their safety net and those who are so inclined to push their politics will think twice. The rest wouldn’t have anything to worry about. This isn’t about shutting them up, this is about making professors do their freakin’ jobs. If you’re there to teach chemistry, then teach it, and spare the class a lecture about what you think about (fill in political/religious issue here).

If I were to go into work and start ranting about abortion, the death penalty, how eeeeeevil Democrats are, how great Christianity is, etc., I’d get fired. That’s because if I’m doing all of that, I’m not doing what I was hired to do. Why should a professor be any different?

@This Year's Model

They tried to do this in Colorado a year or two ago. Tied into it was a requirement that universities hire more conservative teachers. It died.

I’m surprised it died. Aren’t liberals all about affirmative action, hiring quotas and inclusiveness?

[Guinastasia]

Because professors are supposed to teach you how to THINK, Abbie. You’re there to learn and debate, not to be spoonfed.

[JRDelirious]

@Abbie Carmichael

Not always. If Dr. Connie the Communist Sympathizer is the only professor that teaches the capstone course to your major, you’re either going to take her or not graduate. (IIRC, most universities don’t allow seniors to transfer in.)

This doesn’t just apply to proselytizing professors, either. Some of them are just plain evil, and the only reason they’re still there is tenure. They might be the only person to teach the one math class you need to graduate: whadyagonnado?

Hey, call it a rare element of introduction to the Real World after graduation, where the Boss Man can be a petty tyrant and since he owns your job, you have to either put up and shut up, or take a walk and take the chance of winding up living under the bridge. Or where the company’s big customer is a ranting lunatic bigot but you have to make nice because the company goes under if you don’t get that big order for widgets. Tenure is abused, certainly, but the point of tenure is that you should not have to care about being popular (or, ironically, politically correct).

[vivalostwages]

“No-no” topics come up constantly in English, history, sociology, and quite a few other courses. Students and profs may get uncomfortable with them, but what’s wrong with that?
My colleagues and I have noticed that many students don’t like being made to think, re-examine, re-evaluate or really think critically about any number of issues. It’s possible that some of them have been burned by profs who jumped on them for disagreeing with some sort of party line. But in most cases, I suspect the students are afraid of offending someone else, judging anything at all, or daring to dissent.
That being said, the campus where I teach encourages activism among profs and students. It tends toward the liberal side of things, but there are plenty of conservatives around as well.

At least they don't have some kind of bullshit "Free speech zone" (how's that for an oxymoron?) like my former campus used to have.  They had to get rid of it because of all the protests and challenges against it, and it was actually in a more conservative district than my current one.
 I once assigned an in-class writing based on article about such free speech zones on campuses, and was astonished at how many students thought it was a good idea because "we have to protect people from hearing things that might hurt their feelings or be offensive." 
Good lawdy.

[sleeping]

@Abbie Carmichael

This doesn’t just apply to proselytizing professors, either. Some of them are just plain evil, and the only reason they’re still there is tenure. They might be the only person to teach the one math class you need to graduate: whadyagonnado?

Then complain. There’s an administration for a reason.

I’ve had jerk professors who used the lectern as a bully pulpit, and then I have had calm, rational professors whose politics are opposite mine. I had liberal professors who were frantic around the election, and into the class I’d stroll, wearing my Bush button – and they didn’t treat me any differently, either. I knew what they were thinking, they knew what I was thinking, and that was it, no problems. All universities need professors like that, liberal AND conservative.

When I took International Politics, my professor made clear from the start that he was an avowed liberal. It didn’t phase me and he was the best professor I’ve had so far. Of course, this is just my second semester of college so the usual IME, YMMV disclaimers apply.

If I were to go into work and start ranting about abortion, the death penalty, how eeeeeevil Democrats are, how great Christianity is, etc., I’d get fired. That’s because if I’m doing all of that, I’m not doing what I was hired to do. Why should a professor be any different?

Agreed. But who’d be doing the firing? Your employer, not the government. Certainly, there should be some accountability, but this proposal is positively Orwellian and can only be construed as being intended to squelch debate, not encourage it. Furthermore, given Horowitz’s comments concerning war protestors (he called them traitors and tried to have an antiwar sit-in cancelled), the fact that he is the driving force behind it does not lend it any credence.

I’m surprised it died. Aren’t liberals all about affirmative action, hiring quotas and inclusiveness?

Funny you should mention that. A few months ago there was an article in Time about the resurgence of paleoconservatism among college students. One of their tactics for strengthening the movement has been to embrace the quotas originally proposed by liberals and claim that their minority status should afford them special consideration.

[Zoe]

I always thrived on intentionally perverse professors. The best of them played us like violins with their contrariness.

To absent friends!

[BrainGlutton]

@ITR champion

http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2005/02/12/academic/index.html

Legislation being considered by the Ohio legislature punishes professors at any college or university if they do or say anything that the government doesn’t approve of.

Exactly how does it “punish” them? Since this applies to private colleges as well, I don’t suppose the sanctions would be limited to termination of employment.

[Jackmannii]

The proposal in Ohio to create an academic “bill of rights” would prohibit public and private college professors from presenting opinions as fact or penalizing students for expressing their views. Professors would not be allowed to introduce controversial material unrelated to the course.

This is inaccurate. For anyone interested in what the bill actually proposes, see this link.

What the sponsors claim they want to stop is professors persistently introducing controversial subjects into classes that is unrelated to the purpose of the course. There is no proposal to prevent instructors from expressing their opinions. This is also not a “Republican Party” bill, but something suggested by a couple of lawmakers which does not appear to have widespread support.

While some of the language of the bill is unobjectionable and should be part of the goal of educational institutions, the idea that government should stick its nose into these things is ridiculous and abhorrent. If there is a substantial, widespread problem with students being inhibited from expressing their opinions or punished for doing so (of which I am not convinced), there are ways to protest without dragging the Ohio Legislature into the act. A chief sponsor of the bill has been interviewed in the Columbus Dispatch, and from what he has been quoted as saying it seems clear that a) he has limited understanding of the educational process, b) is promoting his bill to suppress “subversive” thought, score political points, or both, and c) is a dingbat.

I predict this bill will go nowhere, which is a good thing.

[BrainGlutton]

@Jackmannii

This is inaccurate. For anyone interested in what the bill actually proposes, see this link.

Hmmm . . . there’s a lot of “shalls” in that but no mention of actual sanctions or punishments. A “grievance procedure” is mandated but what happens after a grievance is filed is not mentioned. Seems rather toothless to me. Not that that makes it any less stupid or egregious.

[CrankyAsAnOldMan]

Pretty overblown assessment of what’s being attempted here. This is not “controlling the curriculum” by any means. Furthermore (ahem, nitpick) in the vernacular “curriculum” usually refers to K-12 education. The thread title had me thinking something different.

To be honest (and this from a liberal who works for a public U), this doesn’t sound anywhere near as annoying or threatening or meddlesome as some of the other sorts of things I’ve heard legislators propose. My main concern would be that some students would file grievances against things that were actually useful learning exercises meant to push their thinking a bit. What’s relevant (or not) to a course can be a fairly subjective judgment, and not always apparent to the students at the time.