If you own a small business in downtown St. Louis, don’t even think about using the phrase Final Four.
I can maybe sort of understand the NCAA’s position here because there’s big corporate sponsorship revenue to be had, but this is a little ridiculous.
When the MAAC tournament was held in Albany local business owners (especially tavern owners) were thrilled. Business shot through the roof (especially in the taverns) and absolutely everybody had advertising banners and posters hyping “NCAA Basketball” and “On the road to the Sweet Sixteen” and whatnot. We put up with the hassle and the traffic jams because the tournament boosted the local economy. We even got to see a little basketball.
Now the NCAA is saying to St. Louis “we’re bringing the Final Four to your city, but don’t try to make any money off of it.” I think they’re being a little shortsighted here. Keep that up and you’ll have a hard time finding places to host your tournaments in the future, dipshits.
You’re joking, right? Cities line up and bend over for the mere opportunity to apply to host the Final Four. Denying Joe’s Tavern free use of their copyrighted name certainly isn’t going to prevent thousands of people from flocking to the city to consume to their hearts desire. And not being able to use “Final Four” isn’t going to prevent Joe’s Tavern from seeing year-long record sales as thousands of people flock to the city in search of a good time.
Okay - how badly do you want the Olympics? And what does a 2 1/2 week long international sporting event that’s held once every four years have to do with a 1 weekend basketball team involving 4 teams?
I just think it’s silly of the NCAA to get all shirty over this. I fail to see how the NCAA is harmed by Joe’s Tavern having a hundred-square grid with “NCAA Tournament” on it behind the bar, or Stickley’s having a Final Four Furniture sale.
It’s these stupid euphemisms that everybody is forced to use that get to me. “Big basketball event.” “Football Game - You Know The One.” “Much Ado About Curling.”
When a city wins the Olympics all of a sudden there are threats made against any business that uses the word Olympic in their name. Smearing their good name to make a profit and all that.
It’s trademark law, not copyright law. This is a clarification that is not only important for its own sake, but also to avoid having this thread degenerate into the endless debates about whether music should be free, artists should work for the joy of art, and whether everything was really better under late 18th century copyright law.
As far as why the NCAA, NFL, etc. are so defensive about their trademarks, it has to do with protecting the value of those trademarks and, indeed, the very function of the trademark itself. The article makes a good point - Ford’s willingness to pay the money needed to be named “official car of the Final Four” is considerably diminished if the Toyota dealership down the road in St. Louis can run “Final Four specials.” (This is just a hypothetical - I have no idea if Ford is the official car of the Final Four, or if there is such a thing.)
More generally, the more unapproved commercial uses of a trademark there are, the less distinctive that trademark becomes, and the greater the danger is that it could cease to serve as a trademark, entirely, i.e. cease to identify the source of products and services and distinguish them from others. And what we’re talking about here, from what I can glean from the article, are commercial uses - running “Final Four specials” and the like. “Come to Joe’s Tavern to watch the Final Four” is more of a gray area - use of “Final Four” in that context could well fall under the category of nominative fair use. It would help if the guidelines were available somewhere.
You want to know how far the NCAA takes this? Only Division I Men’s and Women’s Basketball are allowed to use “Final Four” for their championship. Other NCAA divisions and sports are not. The “Elite Eight”? Division II basketball only. Here’s a list of the NCAA’s trademarks and their limitations.
What’s so strange about that? Coca-Cola doesn’t use its COKE mark on sports drinks or bottled water either. The NCAA has full discretion to decide how and in connection with what events it uses its trademarks. If the NCAA decides that Elite Eight will only be used with Division II basketball, it is no stranger than Coke’s decision to call its bottled water DASANI instead of COKE. It certainly doesn’t restrict non-commercial use (e.g. on the sports pages) to describe the teams playing in the regional finals of the Division I tournament as the Elite Eight. Commercial uses are a different matter, and rightfully so.
I’m not so bothered by the fact that they’ve trademarked “Final Four”. What gets me is that they’ve also trademarked “March Madness”, “The Big Dance”, and “The Road To” damn near everywhere.
It will make it hard to refer to the tournament at all if they keep trademarking every nickname that gets applied to it. If the locals start calling it the Super Happy Orange Bouncy-Bounce Hoop Battle one year, that will be off-limits by the next year. Before long, people will sound like they do when they’re talking about some big family embarrassment that no one really wants to talk about; “Join us at Joe’s Tavern this weekend, as we celebrate the, uh, certain sports-related unpleasantness being held over at the arena.”
Because sportswriters, commentators, etc. have been so constrained in their use of these terms. :rolleyes:
The question is one of commercial exploitation, not of ordinary linguistic use. There is a fundamental difference between my friends and I betting on who will be in the Final Four, and a store running “March Madness” specials. The former is an ordinary non-commercial use, and the latter arguably seeks to ride the goodwill and reputation of the tournament to boost its own sales and dilutes the commercial distinctiveness of the “March Madness” mark to the point where it could (if such uses are allowed to proliferate) become as generic and non-distinctive as “Christmas” or “President’s Day.” At which point, anyone who wants to can run a “March Madness” tournament. The NCAA’s investment in building the goodwill of its marks is lost if the commercial use of the same is not exclusive. Now, I think that “Come to Joe’s Tavern to watch the Final Four” is a closer call than “Final Four Sale,” but the NCAA probably has a lot of people and money behind the idea that it’s not.
It has come to our attention that you are using the term “fundamental difference” in your argument to prove your point. By making a valid argument you may have gained the respect of some of the SDMB users who will then possibly favor your services and/or business and therefore give you monetary gain.
Please be advised that “fundamental difference” is a registered trademark of Antoine’s Hair Salon and your use is a breach of U.S. Patent and Tradmark laws.
We insist that you cease and desist from any further use.
Bubbadog
Dewey, Cheatem and Howe
Attorneys at Lawlessness
If I lived in St. Louis and if any place of business were to use Super Happy Orange Bouncy-Bounce Hoop Battle or "Join us at (name of business) this weekend as we celebrate the, uh, certain sports-related unpleasantness being held over at the arena, I would soooooo max out all my credit cards there that day.
You don’t want to play the “who knows more about trademark law” game with me. The short answer to your silly example is that trademarks don’t exist in words alone - they arise from using the mark in connection with goods or services, i.e. commercial use. No court has ever held that any time you speak, write, or communicate that you are engaged in advertising for yourself.
It just seems silly that the NCAA has taken it so far as to restrict itself. It’s unlikely that people will mistake the Division III women’s volleyball finals for the Division I men’s basket finals. I just don’t see the benefit to the NCAA. Coca-Cola has managed to survive with Diet Coke, Caffeine-free Coke, Caffein-free Diet Coke, Cherry Coke, Vanilla Coke, Vanilla Diet Coke, etc. Coca-Cola has chosen to brand it’s similar products together. I expect the reason they went with Dasani for the water was not to protect the Coke identity but because who would buy Coke Water?
I know nothing about trademark law but Final Four is such an ambiguous term couldn’t you find a way to use it that would possibly elude successful punishment in court?