Say, Braaad, That Looks Familiar

[Tuckerfan]

Okay, almost two years ago, I wrote the following:

In each area there should also be a Scrap bin, painted bright red where unusable parts are placed.
Additionally, there should be a Lost Parts container painted black, where parts that have gotten separated from the rest of the batch can be placed. By doing this, Amalgamated Moron Manufacturing will help streamline the flow of parts through the facility, eliminate the current practice of keeping most scrap parts with the batch until they reach the inspection area, enable both employees and management to quickly survey the available workload, and ensure that parts which have been misplaced are returned to their correct area.

That was in a report I wrote and gave to the Owner in what was obviously a vain effort to get the company to do something sensible.

On Tuesday of this week, I walk into the shop, and spot a red bucket in one corner of the shop with a "Non-Conforming Material" sticker on the side of it. As the Mold Maker and I are looking at it, Braaaad comes in and hands us a sheet of paper, explaining the purpose of the red bucket. Braaaad then casually comments that when the folks from Honda were touring the plant last week, they noticed that we didn't have any and that they suggested we get some so that we wouldn't get scrap mixed in with good parts.

Of course, we always do, because that's proceedure! The last step before the parts are boxed up to be shipped, One Eyed Jack inspects the parts to make sure they look right. Occassionally, One Eye will actually check the parts with a gauge. If anyone discovers a bad part before they get to shipping, they have one of two choices. They can either walk the parts to the shipping department and put them on the scrap table, or they can dump them in the bin with the rest of the good parts. Guess which one they pick?

So, I don't know if was the smart ass in me coming out or not, but after Braaaad told us why we were now going to be using "non-conforming material" buckets (nevermind that "non-conforming material" is pretty much meaningless, since it can be applied to a raw casting in comparison to a finished part, whereas "scrap" clearly defines a part which can only be one thing), I pointed out to Braaaad that I had originally suggested the idea two years ago.

Braaaad's response was, "Well, some times it takes two years for a good idea to get implimented around here." I was tempted, but managed to refrain from pointing out that was exactly how long an elephant is pregnant.

Now, today, I'm actually running a non-Honda job (but still one which if they knew what the fuck they were doing, I wouldn't have to machine at all) and Clayd'oh and Braaaad are checking a prototype part that we've been trying to get right for about a year now. Mind you, this is a military part, so the fact that we keep fucking up a military part means that we're screwing the poor schmucks on the front line. You know, the very ones the Owner has said that he's trying to help by putting all military parts as priority items. (Ask me when the last time I machined a military part was. Go on. Ask) My head's stopped up, so mercifully, I can't hear the entire conversation between Braaaad and Clayd'oh, but even so I can grok enough of it to realize that either one of them has much of a clue as to what it is that they're talking about.

That's when everything finally clicked for me, and I realized what it is that I need to do to make whatever time I have left there bearable. I'm going to have business cards printed up stating that I am a consultant. Then, whenever anyone there asks me for advice about how we should do something, I'm going to hand them my card and say, "My initial consultation fee is $500 if you take my advice, $1,000 if you don't." If, by some fluke, they actually decide to take me up on that (and, of course, I'll demand payment in advance), I'm going to hand them a contract to sign which says, in effect, that not only to I have the right to treat them like the bitch they are, but that they have no choice to come back to me and demand that I do it again. Finally, there will be a clause in the contract which states that if they say something I find mindboggingly stupid, I have the right to beat them like a dog.

And, of course, I have a plan for if they actually do sign the contract and pay me $500. Instead of listening to their question and then giving them an answer, I'll simply hand them another copy of my report and tell them that the answer's in there.

[danceswithcats]

Tell you what, I'll charge $1500 for the consulting fee, pay you $500, and we'll be happy guys.

[Enginerd]

Originally Posted by danceswithcats

Tell you what, I'll charge $1500 for the consulting fee, pay you $500, and we'll be happy guys.

$500 is nice, but I think Tuckerfan's really angling for the "beat them like dogs" option. The money seems like a secondary concern.

[neuroman]

Tuckerfan,

I think if you work only another year or two in this place, you'll have enough raw material to write a new and brilliant sitcom.

[duffer]

Originally Posted by Enginerd

$500 is nice, but I think Tuckerfan's really angling for the "beat them like dogs" option. The money seems like a secondary concern.

Save the dogs and use my favorite saying. It really fits here.

"Beat them like they owe you money."

[Can Handle the Truth]

Tuckerfan, I worked as a manufacturing and quality engineer for seven years in a plant that manufactured both military and automotive parts. Sorry, but I don't buy a word of what you have written. Both military and automotive quality control requirements are among the tightest in existence. Any of the violations that you describe, if involving military parts, would be grounds for immediately shutting down the operation and/or termination of the contract, perhaps even criminal charges.

[Tuckerfan]

Originally Posted by Can Handle the Truth

Tuckerfan, I worked as a manufacturing and quality engineer for seven years in a plant that manufactured both military and automotive parts. Sorry, but I don't buy a word of what you have written. Both military and automotive quality control requirements are among the tightest in existence. Any of the violations that you describe, if involving military parts, would be grounds for immediately shutting down the operation and/or termination of the contract, perhaps even criminal charges.

One would think that, especially if the Feds had been alerted to this fact (don't ask me how I know), but we're still in operation. I think that part of what protects us is the fact that we're quiet often the sub-sub-sub-contractor for a job. However, I can assure you, that nothing I've posted in any of these threads is an exaggeration or outright fabrication of the events I've witnessed.

Of course, that all might be about to change. Today, we had some folks in the place inspecting the military parts Clayd'oh was piddling with yesterday. They were discussing some of the problems with the parts we'd been sending them (problems which Braaaaad had been describing as "enamelies") and they had at least one conference amongst themselves in the middle of their visit. No idea of what they were talking about, but even Clayd'oh admitted that there's just no way we can pull off this job.

[Mr. Goob]

Originally Posted by Can Handle the Truth

Tuckerfan, I worked as a manufacturing and quality engineer for seven years in a plant that manufactured both military and automotive parts. Sorry, but I don't buy a word of what you have written. Both military and automotive quality control requirements are among the tightest in existence. Any of the violations that you describe, if involving military parts, would be grounds for immediately shutting down the operation and/or termination of the contract, perhaps even criminal charges.

I was a machinist and work in a factory as a tooling consultant. I've enjoyed all of the Puma Pete stories and can picture a lot of the foolishness that you've entertained us with. But I have to say I was thinking the same thing as Truth here. Are you guys ISO 9000 certified? If I were auditing there I'd have had a stroke by now.

[Yeticus Rex]

When was the last time you machined a military part?


More importantly, when will be the first time you stick "Braaaad" into the "Non-Conforming Material" bucket?

[Tuckerfan]

Originally Posted by Mr. Goob

I was a machinist and work in a factory as a tooling consultant. I've enjoyed all of the Puma Pete stories and can picture a lot of the foolishness that you've entertained us with. But I have to say I was thinking the same thing as Truth here. Are you guys ISO 9000 certified? If I were auditing there I'd have had a stroke by now.

Oh, hell, no! We're supposedly trying to push towards that, but I don't see it happening. We can't keep track of ordinary paperwork, so how we're supposed to keep track of all the extra paperwork that ISO 9000 certification requires (and I've worked in an ISO 9000 facility before, so I know what that's like) is beyond me.

In all honesty, I think that if the Feds did drop by and start checking the qualifications of many of the people in that place, they'd shut us down without ever looking at what it is we produce. Oh, and folks, I haven't told a tenth of the stuff that goes on in that place, mainly because a lot of it would only make sense to other machinists.

Yeticus Rex, the answer to your first question is: I don't know. The answer to your second question is: The first time he starts trying to be my friend.

[Mr. Goob]

By Og tell some of the other 9/10's of the stories. There is a willing audience.

How the hell can they be subbing out Honda parts? It's the automotive field that pushed for the ISO standards? I get the feeling that somebody is in somebodies pocket. Just too bad they aren't sharing the wealth with you worker bees or investing in more equipment.

-Mr Goob, whistling and looking the other way at the possible gross violation of Mil-Specs.

[duffer]

Originally Posted by Mr. Goob

I was a machinist and work in a factory as a tooling consultant. I've enjoyed all of the Puma Pete stories and can picture a lot of the foolishness that you've entertained us with. But I have to say I was thinking the same thing as Truth here. Are you guys ISO 9000 certified? If I were auditing there I'd have had a stroke by now.

The last metal shop I worked at also made some steel parts for military vehicle armor. (Light armor, but still military.) We were subcontracted. ISO 9000 isn't required.

Scroll to the bottom of this page to see the disclaimer.

[duffer]

Originally Posted by Mr. Goob

By Og tell some of the other 9/10's of the stories. There is a willing audience.

I'll post the latest ones in chrono order if nobody beats me to it. Hang on a few.

[duffer]

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

That should get you caught up.

[Tuckerfan]

Uh, duffer, that's still not 90% of the things that go on in that place. The reality is far worse than you can imagine. One of these days I'll get around to posting all of it. [Ernie Hudson in Ghostbusters]I've seen shit that would turn you white.[/EHiG]

[duffer]

Originally Posted by Tuckerfan

Uh, duffer, that's still not 90% of the things that go on in that place. The reality is far worse than you can imagine. One of these days I'll get around to posting all of it. [Ernie Hudson in Ghostbusters]I've seen shit that would turn you white.[/EHiG]

I know, thought he needed catching up. I read the post wrong. Sorry. I thought he meant he had only seen 10% of what was posted.

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

Hey, it was still a Good Thing you did, duffer, for those of us who enjoy the Tuckerfan ouevre but don't have it bookmarked.

Heck, it almost makes up for your conservative blatherings.

[duffer]

Originally Posted by EddyTeddyFreddy

Hey, it was still a Good Thing you did, duffer, for those of us who enjoy the Tuckerfan ouevre but don't have it bookmarked.

Heck, it almost makes up for your conservative blatherings.

*snerk* I don't bookmark anything. I scroll through threads looking for the tell-tale yellow envelope.

Nope, I actually went to the trouble of searching Tucker's OP's and tried to compile the OP's going back to last fall. Carefully coding each one and posting them in an easy to use format.

And it was all for naught. Ya know, sometime's ya can't win for trying.

[Polycarp]

Originally Posted by duffer

*snerk* I don't bookmark anything. I scroll through threads looking for the tell-tale yellow envelope.

Nope, I actually went to the trouble of searching Tucker's OP's and tried to compile the OP's going back to last fall. Carefully coding each one and posting them in an easy to use format.

And it was all for naught. Ya know, sometime's ya can't win for trying.

Actually, I thought it was a very thoughtful and kindly gesture on your part, Duffer. Which, I guess, makes you one of those folks GWB was talking about back in 2000.

[Can Handle the Truth]

Let me describe some of the major requirements that you would have to fulfill if you were selling product direct to either an automotive or military customer:

1 - Each finished metal part to be traceable back thru all manufacturing processes, back to the original billet of raw material. Must have paperwork to trace each step and prove that all requirements were fulfilled.

2 - Proposed methods of manufacturing to be submitted to and approved by the customer, including specific machines and tooling to be used and maintenance schedules to be followed. Submit drawings with dimensions, tolerances, surface finish, etc. of the part as it will appear after each step of the process.

3 - Proposed methods of inspection to be submitted to and approved by the customer.

4 - Selective inspection of parts, based on statistical sampling techniques, after each step of the manufacturing process; if the samples fail, the entire lot must be inspected and non-conforming parts either reworked or destroyed.

5 - Nonconforming parts tracked and distinctly marked and separated from good parts.

6 - Manufacturing instructions available for each process, written clearly and with enough detail so that someone with no prior knowledge of the process could follow them and produce a good result.

7 - Document control keeps track of the location of all documentation at all times.

These are just off the top of my head. The practical result of implementing these and other requirements is that the Quality Assurance Department becomes the largest department in the organization; more people are dedicated to carrying out quality-related duties than are dedicated to manufacturing the product.

If none of the above happens at your plant, I would not be surprised to find out that someone between you and your ultimate customer is faking a lot of paperwork.

[Little Nemo]

I pointed out to Braaaad that I had originally suggested the idea two years ago.

Braaaad's response was, "Well, some times it takes two years for a good idea to get implimented around here."

Maybe you should ask Braaaad how long it takes to implement a good idea when he doesn't contribute to the process.

[Tuckerfan]

Can Handle the Truth, I don't doubt that you're right, and I've heard discussions of paperwork (as in "There's a lot of paperwork with this job, because it's government."), however, I've seen none of the paperwork that you describe. Honda has certainly toured our facility a couple of times, but the most recent visitors dealing with the Honda job have been employees of the company we're subbing for. AFAIK, no one's toured the facility of the place we're subbing part of the work to.

Little Nemo, that wouldn't really work, since Braaaad's only been there since last October (Surprisingly, that's when our scrap rate increased dramatically. Coincidence?).

[Repairdude]

I was a NDT tech for a while and I can say without a doubt that paperwork doesn't have anything to do with the truth. Militairy parts are big bucks for the makers so if a little fuge on paper saves a few thousand then what the heck. Ask anyone who was in a recent "Police action" about the quality of parts and supplys. I quit the job for this reason. I never witnessed anything that was criminal but some of the stuff I saw was close.

[Mr. Goob]

The paperwork isn't that bad. The last company I was with made implantable medical parts. Bending the rules wouldn't get somebody a fine and a slap on the wrist. The quality manager was afraid of handcuffs. That's not exageration. I was friends with him long before we wound up working at the same place. He told me there were nights it kept him awake when they installed a new clean room facility.

Take all the ISO requirements (like what Truth mentioned) and add on FDA regs. It's all about tracibility. Once a system is in place it runs itself with a few people. Setting it up is the hard part.

What to do with the paperwork for the next 20+ years is the question. The building next door had boxes and boxes of inspection reports stacked to the roof. A lot of the current stuff was being done electronically. I haven't been there for two years so I wonder how that project turned out.

Duffer thanks for the summary, but I've been following right along. I'm urging Tucker to tell more. For the moments I think the shop I work in is a screwball comedy it's nice to hear it could could be a farce.