Ask the Conservative Christian Theologian!

Great Debates
1

Hi! After many months of lurkdom, I finally decided to join this fine establishment.

A little encouragement prompted me to open this thread:

“Ask the conservative (Protestant) Christian theologian!”

I like theology, and I like talking about theology, and I love God. Hopefully, I can contribute to this knowledge base while socializing. I believe one of the great aspects of civilization is the free exchange of ideas and opinions. People should especially feel free to share about those things that are most important to them, and thoughtful people should respect them for that. I know there are many people of other, and no, faiths on this board. It may be a cliché, but I believe we can respectfully “agree to disagree” and remain friendly, simply enjoying the company of another human being. We might also learn something from each other.

I am professor of Systematic Theology (doctrinal studies) at an inter-denominational bible college. I teach both undergraduate and introductory graduate classes, though I’m not a Ph.D. (in my country, demand for theology teachers outstrips supply). I am, however, working on a second master’s degree. I have taught for about five years; before that I was involved in parachurch ministry. As my ministry is in a different country and culture, I can also be considered a missionary.

A few hints/requests, for your indulgence:

  1. I put this in GD because of the subject matter, but I hope it will be more like a typical MPSIMS “Ask the…” thread. This is too broad a topic for detailed debate of every item. Also, I am not a big believer in debating; I have rarely seen anyone change his or her mind as the result of an argument.
  2. I’m not particularly interested in the creation/evolution debate. (Sorry!) I’m not qualified to engage the scientific issues (though I did get the “best science student” award as a senior in high school :D). I also do not feel compelled to harmonize Gen. 1-3 with modern science, though I am happy to talk about its theology, which is excellent.
  3. Conservative Christian != Fundamentalist. We can talk more about that if you like; I don’t want to clutter the OP.
  4. Some apologies in advance: I live in Asia, so when I am online it will be night for many of you. Also, my internet access is not always reliable. It may take some time for me to get back, but I have not abandoned the thread.
  5. FYI, I am male.
  6. Also, I’m longwinded. Sorry.

Let the fun begin! (Be kind!)

2

I’m personally glad to see you, Theologue (despite only being here for another week or so), but I’m betting this thread will end up in the Pit before post #20.

Genesis is my favorite OT book. I can have a field day with the first 3 chapters. There’s so many neat things just stuck in there that are easy to miss if you’re not paying attention.

So where in Asia are you, and where are you originally from?

3

Did you grow up as a Christian? What is your country of origin?
How big (how many students) is your bible college?
What kind of acceptance does a Christian bible college get in your part of Asia?
I know you don’t want an evolution/creation debate, but can you tell me if “creation science” is taught in any way at your college?

Ok, those are the easy ones. What I really want to know is, what compelling evidence do you see–other than the Bible and related historical texts–for the existence of the Judeo-Christian God? Can you provide any logic-based arguments for your belief?

Thanks,
Tangent (atheist)

4

Please explain the difference.

5

I don’t believe in God and I refuse to accept Christ as my saviour. Am I going to hell?

6

Hi all,

I don’t know how to use the multiple quote feature, but I will try to answer questions sequentially without letting the posts get too long.

I am originally from the U.S., but I have lived almost all of my adult life outside of it. I grew up in a nominally Christian (non-church-going) home. I was always interested in religion, but I would describe my spirituality as a youth as “new age-ish” until I had a conversion experience in my teens. One summer afternoon, I put my faith in Christ after reading part of the Bible, the Book of Revelation. This experience was without the mediation of another person, and it was sometime before I became actively involved in a church.

Abbie, you will be missed. I’ve enjoyed your posts from my lurkdom.

Tangent, where I live, Christians are a small minority nationally, a larger minority locally. We are generally well thought of as Christians do a disproportionate amount of the educational and humanitarian work.

Our college has less than 100 students, but we are one of the major ones in our region. We are only a few years old but have provisional accreditation and are working towards full accreditation.

“Creation” is a topic that comes under my discipline. I don’t teach creation science, but neither do I teach evolution. I don’t know if any of the OT profs teach creation science, but I would doubt it. We are more interested in the theological purposes of creation than the mechanics.

Now, your harder questions: the most compelling evidence I see for faith in the God revealed in the Bible is personal and experiential. I know, though, that testimonies and existential arguments are not compelling for those on the outside. I see certain events in the unfolding of history as testimony to a Creator with a plan. I believe the physical resurrection of Christ is the most reasonable and best explanation for the “Easter event” and subsequent events. Adding them together != airtight “proof,” but I’m compelled.

7

rfgdxm, I went into some of the differences in the Pit thread linked in the OP. I want to add to the discussion started there . First, I do want to express sorrow for the divisions visible in Christendom, which does not present a good witness to the world outside. It is unfortunate that all these labels and descriptions are necessary. That said, part of my job as a Systematic Theologian is to make distinctions and decisions. I’m personally very interested in the historical origins and developments in different theological movements and denominations. I find most of the differences fascinating rather than angering.

I am not a Fundamentalist, but I am a theologically conservative Christian. Those on the outside would see very little difference between my beliefs and Fundamentalism. We both believe in the virgin birth, the miracles, the atoning death, resurrection, and deity of Jesus Christ. Those were originally “the Fundamentals.” Most Christians of all denominations and in all ages have believed these things.

On the other hand, contemporary Fundamentalists would see me as a liberal at best. We disagree in certain areas of eschatology or “last things.” To me, that we disagree is not that important; it is to them. I believe in the continuation of the ministry and gifts of the Holy Spirit beyond the time of the Bible; they do not. (Those that are theologically to the left of me are much more open on this issue.) I can enjoy the theological works and fellowship of other Christians to the left of me, and ones with whom I disagree; they believe in the doctrine and practice of separation.

I have a high view of the Bible and believe it is inspired by God, but I do not believe that it is absolutely inerrant. That is the biggest difference theologically.

There are some political difference, but that’s mostly an American thing. Approach and presentation also differ.

But God loves us all.

8

Diogenes, I refer you to this earlier discussion, from before my great ISP meltdown. I wrote a lot on this subject there, though the thread is somewhat messy.

9

Can you expand on these events? Specifically which events you are talking about and why they are evidence of a creator.

10

[QUOTE=Abbie Carmichaeldespite only being here for another week or so[/QUOTE]

Aw, why? I’ll miss you 'round here. :frowning:

11

Hello, Theologue. You played nicely with the other children in the Pit, so I’ll show the same courtesy here, and I hope others will too.

Doesn’t your statement above simply mean “I believe it because I believe it”? I could make the same case for my faith that the moon is made of green cheese. What evidence or arguments, if any, would be sufficient to make you disbelieve?

12

Ditto! Why, Abbie, why? You are most needed here!

13

I take it you’re in a “closed” country? Feel free to duck this.

14

Ditto, ditto, if it helps.

Regards,
Shodan

15

I was “ditto”-ing FriarTed, in case that isn’t clear.

Regards,
Shodan

16

If I may be allowed a small rudeness on behalf of FriarTed, I suspect his answer will be, “Because He told us so.”

17

Note: I am a theologian, not an apologist. I can address the “Why are you a Christian?” and “Why should anyone be a Christian?” questions, but they are not my area of expertise. Theology deals mostly with issues concerning those already inside the faith, the “Why do Christians believe this?” and “What does this mean?” and “How does that work?” questions.

Hello, Case Sensitive, let me try to address your good thoughts and questions, which I’m sure others have as well. As noted above, this is a little difficult for me to put into words.

I doubt that I can supply objective, rational arguments to “prove” the Christian faith that are better than ones you have already heard; I know I can’t do a better job at apologetics than you can find in books available on the subject.

But it’s not as simple as “I believe because I believe.” I did not believe because I was born into a Christian home/country, though I admit that certainly was a factor. I did not believe because I thought that the Christian faith was the best possible explanation for everything that is. I believed because of an inner drawing towards God as revealed in Jesus Christ, what I would later learns the Bible speaks of as the convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit (John 16:7-15). It was, in many ways, a total transformation, a passing from death unto life (John 5:24, 1 John 3:14).

When I “came to Christ,” I did not suddenly decide to adopt a philosophical system. Through grace, through his permission, I met a real Person, and I entered into a relationship with that Person. It’s a living relationship, with depth, emotion, and communication. It’s not always an easy one. It’s not one I always understand. But I cannot deny the reality of it any more than I can deny the personhood of physical human beings I know, like my wife. I have had an encounter with the Divine, something that is real, or else I am insane (or both :D). It has not left me unchanged. After such a transformation, I cannot think of anything that would cause me to disbelieve.

I realize subjective experiences are not necessarily compelling evidence to those outside. I do not offer this as final proof, but that there is more than clinical analysis involved. I cannot objectify my faith. I am a participant in the mystery, not simply a detached spectator. I also cannot externalize my experience or package it up for the rest of the world to examine or experience. But I have had strangers from other faiths show up at my door, seeking the same, and they have received.

Again, I have other reasons I believe, the usual biblical and historical ones. But the experience is the basis of the confidence; the other reasons are peripheral. I come from the opposite perspective; if the reasons offered are compelling but not conclusive, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, or of the faith, as it were.

With all respect, please let me flip the question around: What would lead you to believe, if anything? Certainty regarding historical events is impossible, particularly ones that took place thousands of years ago; we can only talk in terms of probabilities, not possibilities. I believe the Bible is reliable, but it is neither perfect nor a magic book. Scientific proof of the supernatural? I have difficulty with using the word “control” and “God” in the same sentence. Personal experience of the miraculous? If you ever have an encounter with the miraculous, the same skeptics will be around with the same arguments. What would you personally find compelling? I really am curious.

18

I see no posts by anybody with your name there. Tell us what name were posting under in that thread, so we know which are the writings you are referring to.

Or better still, simply state your beliefs on the subject here so people don’t have to refer to another thread.

19

Hi Theologue,

My evangelical fundamentalist Christian friends tend to have books by people like Lee Strobel and Josh McDowell, and it was always my understanding that it wasn’t really theology – pop theology, if you will, with only tenuous links to the real stuff. Something like these pop philosophy books as compared to Kant’s Critique of Pure Reason. Do I have the right idea here? Also, are there any books by actual theologians that one could expect to find in a major bookstore like Indigo or Barnes & Noble?

20

Jumping in midstream here, but as an atheist and a rationalist, I might accept a lot of what happened in the bible if a) it happened today and b) happened in front of everybody and c) wasn’t so inscrutable or weird that it could be mistaken for anything BUT a miracle.

All the stuff in the bible makes for good reading but I have to ask god, “but what have you done lately?” I’ve only been around for 35 years but I’ve yet to personally see a miracle… lone survivors of crashes and unexplained recoveries from illnesses fall into the category of luck. God used to appear before people in biblical times, why hasn’t he shown up to anybody since? If a supreme being popped in today in biblical fashion, CNN, FOX, MSNBC and everybody with a camera in their cellphone would be able to capture it. Who knows, maybe god would grant an interview. Or being a supreme being, god could merely show up on every TV around the world at the same time.

I think I’d be inclined to believe if that happened – and I say inclined because I’d wait for all kinds of study and research to be done to try and get rid of any other explanation. This is of course assuming that god, in X-files fashion, would afterwards erase all the evidence worldwide so people would just have to take the experience on faith… Yeah. god actually coming out and introducing himself instead of playing mind games would go a long way towards making people believe.

That’s just one guys opinion, of course. :slight_smile: Thanks for starting the thread. Hopefully it’s not pitbound like some have predicted…

EZ