The Pizza Wars

Started on another thread, I know this is really the place for it...

I submit:

Sure, anything by people like Dominos or Pizza Hut are wretched corporate approximations of the real thing, and I shan't waste another word on the foul food-stuff.

Chicago pizza is great! If you like lots of bread. kinda like a Big Mac is to burgers or a Subway sub is to a real sub. Personally I prefer my bread before the entree, not as the entree, but you know, it gets cold in Chi-town...

Los Angeles offers something it calls pizza, though any resemblance to real pizza is accidental. They put, like, bamboo shoots and tofu on top of it. In a word, ew.

The only real pizza is the New York variety. You can grab a slice of perfection on almost any corner in the city and it doesn't need toppings at all. A fresh tasty shell topped with olive oil topped with spicy tomato sauce topped with fresh mozzerella. Perfection, and you can hold it in one hand while reading the Daily News in the other.

The amount of bread is perfectly in ratio to the sauce that burns the corner of your moth so deliciously, and the cheese which is gooey and wonderful.

Sorry, but the only real pizza is the New York variety. The rest might be tasty, but don't confuse it with pizza.

Let the flaming begin!

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Brian O'Neill
CMC International Records
www.cmcinternational.com

ICQ 35294890
AIM Scrabble1
Yahoo Messenger Brian_ONeill

You know what makes no sense whatsoever? That the only good pizza is New York pizza, as though if you took exactly the same ingredients and prepare them exactly the same way in Alaska, it wouldn't be an equally delicious pizza. Bullshit.

I will say this, though: the majority of pizzas in the world suck. I simply adore good pizza, and I confess it is very difficult to find here in Los Angeles (Where they do NOT put bamboo shoots and tofu... you have apparantly never been here and have seen too many Woody ALlen movies. How ludicrous. They put smoked chicken and shitake mushrooms. Arf.)

When I was in NY, many moons ago, I will say that 7 out of 10 pizza slices I tried (and I lived mostly on pizza the whole time I was there) were good. The other 3 sucked.



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Stoidela

******Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!******

one more thing:

LA may have very little in the way of good pizza, but we do have some.

NY, on the other hand, has ZERO good Mexican food. And good Mexican food is the food of the gods.



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Stoidela

******Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!******

It's not the state, it's the pizza joint.

Lou Malnati's, anyone?

San Loco on 2nd Avenue between St. Marks and 7th. I used to go there at 4AM and have (another beer) and stuff my face for $5.

Sure, LA has a lot more good Mexican food... You also have a lot more Mexicans!

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Brian O'Neill
CMC International Records
www.cmcinternational.com

ICQ 35294890
AIM Scrabble1
Yahoo Messenger Brian_ONeill

Kat, you're right its not the state or city, but the style. Not necessarily the store, but the style. Lou's is the second best pizza on the planet and close second behind Giordano's. Both are only made in the Chicagoland area and the style was cultivated in the pizzarias of the city. Now should they open a Lou's in NY or LA I am sure it would reign as the best pizza in the city, but that doesn't make it any less a Chicago pizza.
Long live Chicago style pizza, where you can actually make a meal out of a slice. Pizza that actually has subtantial topping and cheese that oozes out to cover the entire plate. The grease soaked cardboard under a Chicago pizza is a better pizza than that cheap foldy pizza they eat in New York. Whats it say about your slice if it needs to be cut from a quater of a pizza to make a signicicant snack.

Anyone who thinks Chicago pizza ain't the best in the whole wide world can blow it out their ass!

Anything I blow out my ass would approximate the taste of Chicago pizza...

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Brian O'Neill
CMC International Records
www.cmcinternational.com

ICQ 35294890
AIM Scrabble1
Yahoo Messenger Brian_ONeill

I addressed this back in the "egg cream" thread in "Great Questions," but you're right, this does deserve its own thread, and the Pit is the right place for it.

That said, I'm gonna perversely be pleasant and polite. NY-style and Chicago-style pizza are both delicious...AND they are such completely different dishes that they should not both be given the same name.

Chicago-style may be thick, but it isn't bread that makes it thick, it's the tomatoes, cheese, and other fillings (here in NYC we'd call them "toppings.") NY-style is closer to the original Italian snack, which was created in Naples as a way to use up bread dough left over after the loaves were made. SNACK, not meal...which is why you need a couple of slices of NY-style to fill your tum-tum.

So let NY pizza be called pizza, and let's come up with an alternate name for Chicago-style. I suggest "Yummy Gloppy Round Thing, Pass the Crushed Red Pepper, Please."

Oh, and by the way...outside of New York and Chicago, all pizza on the North American continent sucks.

Mmmm... Chicago style pizza. Pizza that you have to eat with a fork and knife in the resturants because trying to eat it with your hands is about the same as trying to eat a plate of spaghetti with your hands. Let not the words of a few heathens throw anyone off - you can find people who say "Ice cream sucks!" - anytime I read/hear a best place for... list, Chicago always gets pizza. As for New York pizza, you guys are now doomed to be thought of as a style offered by Pizza Hut in my eyes. Same folks who thought square crustless pizza was a God-touched innovation.

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"I guess it is possible for one person to make a difference, although most of the time they probably shouldn't."

Ike said:

Oh, and by the way...outside of New York and Chicago, all pizza on the North American continent sucks.

Well those two places would have to have some good pizza because everything else about those towns sucks.

Jeffery

Jeffrey, shouldn't you be getting out to the north forty to mow the alfalfa?

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Uke

Don't have no stinkin' alfalfa. More of a peanut guy myself. Peanuts and pizza, what a combination.

Jeffery

Hot dogs. Add hot dogs to the list of foods Chicago does best.

Jeffery, I'd invite you to town and even treat you to a couple, but you'd probably ask for catsup on yours and I'd never be able to show my face in that joint again.

The grease soaked cardboard under a Chicago pizza is a better pizza than that cheap foldy pizza they eat in New York

Hey, bub, we don't feel like waiting an hour and a half for our pizza to cook. We're the cultural and economic center of the Known Universe, ova here!

As for New York pizza, you guys are now doomed to be thought of as a style offered by Pizza Hut in my eyes.

As opposed to having pizza associated with the soul-less restaurant chain named after a kid's color-coded card game?

Since I'm not from Chicago, or NY, I think I can make a pretty unbiased opinion. The best pizza is deep dish. It should have tons of sauce, and cheese. Mmmm, there's a place in Detroit's Greektown that serves an excellent deep dish pie. New York style is too thin, too much bread. Gotta go Chicago-style.

Adam

Well, now, anyone who eats deep dish pizza can't be all bad. ARG, you have to go through Chicago and go for Lou's or Giordano's, or (if you can find one) Tedino's stuffed pizza, which is up there, too.

Re: Franks

I'll take a Nathan's on the Coney Island Boardwalk or a Sabrette's in Yankee Stadium (Home of the 24-time World Champions - When did the Cubbies or the Sox win anything in october?) any day of the year... Chicago has got good Bratz and other things bloated (like their pizza) but we're talking about franks here...

Re: Chicago Pizza

It's not pizza. You can eat it if you wish, but it is not pizza. The best thing I can come up with is Pseudo-Italian Quiche or maybe, with beef topp... Oh, I'm sorry. Y9ou call it fillings, as in what they do to a cavity. Well, we could call a hamburger-filled item a Cow Pie since that IS what the Midwest is known for...

Oh and as for that Pizza Hut jibe? Yes, the Big New Yorker tastes like sweaty balls. But even Pizza Hut knows that New York Style is the only kind of pizza, and they cling onto that, even if their excecution leaves a lot to be desired.

Can't blame them for knowing that a New York pizza would mean a lot more interest than saying they offered Chicago Quiche...

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Brian O'Neill
CMC International Records
www.cmcinternational.com

ICQ 35294890
AIM Scrabble1
Yahoo Messenger Brian_ONeill

Well those two places would have to have some good pizza because everything else
about those towns sucks.

Jeff is still mad about that little Civil War think, I guess, like a lot of Southerners. Either that or the inneptitude of his Braves come post-season!

Two words: Jim Leyritz.

And what's so great about Atlanta anyway?

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Brian O'Neill
CMC International Records
www.cmcinternational.com

ICQ 35294890
AIM Scrabble1
Yahoo Messenger Brian_ONeill

I cannot believe that I am responding to Satan, but anyway.

1) I felt like seeing if I could get someone mad, it is the pit after all.

2) I am still mad about that Civil War thing. That no good Sherman burnt most of Atlanta and the surrounding area.

3) At least the Braves make it into the post-season every year. They were also recently rated one of the best teams by people from all over. They are America's Team.

4) BBQ, peaches, apple pie, great weather (both NY and Chicago get colder than should be allowed in the winter and then have been hotter than Atlanta in the summer), 1996 Olympics, Home of the WCW, the Braves, did I mention they are the America's Team?, Georgia Tech, UPS, Coca Cola, Home Depot, BellSouth, Georiga Pacific, the list is virtually endless.

Jeffery

Good God, you guys! This is how World War One started!

I propose you emmulate Los Angeles, the land of diversity. Not only can I find great Chi or NY pizza within a mile of my house, there is also the best Mexican food in the world (yeah, even better than you get in Mexico), Thai, Chinese, Japanese, Greek, Italian, French (the best French restaurants are run by Cambodians) etc, etc, etc.....

And don't try to tell me our New York and Chicago style pizzas aren't authentic. All our good pizza places were opened by transplants from your fair (though intollerant) cities.

[quote]2) I am still mad about that Civil War thing. That no good Sherman burnt most of Atlanta and the surrounding area.

I'm still mad that Atlanta grew back. You Altanta folk don't fare well against Yankees, do ya? (See next comment)

3) At least the Braves make it into the post-season every year. They were also recently rated one of the best teams by people from all over.

All over the Turner Corporation? Sorry, the Yanks are the greatest team in all of sports.

They are America's Team.

So America's a bunch of chokers?

1996 Olympics,
Yeah, they went without a hitch.

Home of the WCW,
Trash Incorporated? It's sad when the WWF looks down their nose at you.

UPS, Home Depot,
Organizations with ugly uniforms (brown and orange?)

But return to the orignal theme of cuisine:
It may be true that LA has many of the same ethnic restaurants that NYC has, but I've developed a habit of breathing. I'd have to kick that should I spend time in LA.

Alpha:

But return to the orignal theme of cuisine:
It may be true that LA has many of the same ethnic restaurants that NYC
has, but I've developed a habit of breathing. I'd have to kick that should I
spend time in LA.

Oh please, what a tired cliche!

LA's air is very significantly better than it was 30 years ago. (A fact I had long suspected, since I remember when I was child days when my eyes would burn and I would choke.) And better than a whole lot of cities out there. I distinctly recall NY, while certianly charming, being a cesspool of foul odor mixed with fine, nto to mention the filth everywhere, and plenty of smog. SMog that was trapped because there was no open space any damn where and the buildings were all too fucking tall.

Don't talk to me about breathing and LA... at least we have a real outdoors to go to when we want to breath!



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Stoidela

******Thesaurus: An ancient reptile with an excellent vocabulary******

at least we have a real outdoors to go to when we want to breath!

Just don't try to walk there.

Had to get in some LA bashing.
(Not sarcastic)- how is the new metro?

[quote](Not sarcastic)- how is the new metro?[/metro]

One step down from useless!

As much a we like the (pizza) contributions that NY and Chicago have made to LA, I must say that we owe another American city a much greater debt of graditude: Detroit!

Mybrain ain't working quite right today. I'll try again:

(Not sarcastic)- how is the new metro?

One step down from useless!

As much a we like the (pizza) contributions that NY and Chicago have made to LA, I must say that we owe another American city a much greater debt of graditude: Detroit!

I wouldn't know about the metro, I'm a hardcore angeleno and I've got my own personal vehicle.



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Stoidela

******Thesaurus: An ancient reptile with an excellent vocabulary******

I would have preferred that he not have burned it down in the first place.

Jeffery

Yeah, most would have prefered that the south not try and seceed either, but we can see how foolish that conversation would be.

NY, Boston, and Chi-town - in that order, in my opinion. And having spent quite a while in LA, I gotta ask you PapaBear just what pizzeria you're talking about in LA that is even edible ?

But surely, it isn't just the location, as New Yorkers have tried to recreate pizza overseas (eg. a pizzeria in Hermosa Beach, CA) and fail.

I have heard a variety of theories: the water, the flour (should have a particular proportion of semolina in it), and interestingly, the West Coast's use of Mexican oregano as opposed to the European variety commonly purchased in the NorthEast.

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"Proverbs for Paranoids, 1: You may never get to touch the Master, but you can tickle his creatures."
- T.Pynchon, Gravity's Rainbow.

And don't try to tell me our New York and Chicago style pizzas aren't authentic. All our good pizza places were opened by transplants from your fair (though intollerant) cities.

Hey! Don't call my city intolerant, you son of a bitch

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"I guess it is possible for one person to make a difference, although most of the time they probably shouldn't."

I am still mad about that Civil War thing. That no good Sherman burnt most of Atlanta and the surrounding area.>>> Trekker 777

Hey, you know what they say, "War is Hell."

If slavery had still been legal after the war, it would have been so much easier to clean up, wouldn't it?



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SoxFan59
"Its fiction, but all the facts are true!"

I would have preferred that he not have burned it down in the first place.>> Trekker
(speaking of W.T. Sherman's "March to the Sea" during the Civil War)

Is the Atlanta metro area suffering today because Sherman put the torch to the City 140 years ago? Here in the Chicago area, we don't bear some deep seated animosity toward Mrs. O'Leary and the cow.

Perhaps you would have preferred that the Confederacy prevailed in that conflict? Besides the burned crops and real estate, the slaveholders lost their human property as well. Damn nasty mess, the Civil War. Northern oppressors taking away decent southern citizens' property without due process of law. The very idea!




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SoxFan59
"Its fiction, but all the facts are true!"

Here in the Chicago area, we don't bear some deep seated animosity toward Mrs. O'Leary and the cow.

I been hearin' a lot about cows and Chicago lately -- not only do you not have a "deep seated animosity" toard them, it seems that you are now honoring them by spreading them out all over the city!



-Melin

I wonder if people in Italy have arguements about where to get the best New York Steak?

quote-
But surely, it isn't just the location, as New Yorkers have tried to recreate pizza overseas (eg. a pizzeria in Hermosa Beach, CA) and fail.
---------------------------------------------

It IS the location, or more accuratly, the people at the location. Most people in California have never experienced real pizza. They're so used to Pizza Hut and Dominoes that they won't like anything that is too different than it, just like people in NY probably think that Taco Bell is real Mexican food. Same with hot dogs. Most people out here would rather have an Oscar Mayer than a real Chicago style dog. My dad ordered a "Chicago Dog" from a place in San Diego, and got some grilled...thing...with catsup on it. People here actually consider the Dodger Dog to be the best hot dog in town. To me, it tastes like a foot-long turkey tool.

I would have preferred that there had never been a thing such as slavery or the secession from the US or the War. I am glad Slavery was ended, though that was not the only reason for the secession or the war.

It is just when people from towns like Boston, say that Atlanta has no historical buildings, I want to remind them that it is because Sherman burnt everything.

Is it deep seeded animosity? No, I seldom give it any thought, only when it becomes a discussion of North vs South.

BTW, Mrs. O'leary's cow causing the fire was an accident, Sherman's was not.

Jeffery

Alphagene wrote:

All over the Turner Corporation? Sorry, the Yanks are the greatest team in all of sports.

quote:

So America's a bunch of chokers?
1996 Olympics,
Yeah, they went without a hitch.

Home of the WCW,
Trash Incorporated? It's sad when the WWF looks down their nose at you.

UPS, Home Depot,
Organizations with ugly uniforms (brown and orange?)

At least we do not throw batteries and the like at the visiting players.

The 1996 Olympics went fairly well. The bomb was a problem, but those things happen. The things we were a part of were quite fun. It was a once in a lifetime experience that I will never forget.

How do you figure that WCW is Trash Incorporated? They do not stoop to the level of the WWF. Sure the WWF looks down on them, because people like the raunciness of WWF and the ratings show it, but WWF is much trashier than WCW.

They may have ugly uniforms but they dominate their respective businesses. Now that UPS has announced its plans to IPO, it should really take off.

I also, forgot Atlanta has the busiest airport in the country.

Jeffery

Excuse me, StrTrkr777, but if you wish to start a thread about the civil war or a general defense of Atlanta, feel free...

This is a talk about pizza specifically, with the side tangent of the culinary trends certain cities are known for (and the battles between them).

This obviously leaves out Atlanta. What is Atlanta known for food-wise anyway? The Big Mac? Sweet Tea?

I like The Buckhead Diner as much as anyone, but I don't go there for the authentic Atlanta cuisine!

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Brian O'Neill
CMC International Records
www.cmcinternational.com

ICQ 35294890
AIM Scrabble1
Yahoo Messenger Brian_ONeill

<<<<I would have preferred that there had never been a thing such as slavery or the secession from the US or the War. I am glad Slavery was ended, though that was not the only reason for the secession or the war.>>>
Trekker

That's a lot of bunk from southern revisionist history. It probably should be reserved for another thread, but I submit that slavery is the root of EVERY reason the Civil War happened.

<<<It is just when people from towns like Boston, say that Atlanta has no historical buildings, I want to remind them that it is because Sherman burnt everything.
<snip>
BTW, Mrs. O'leary's cow causing the fire was an accident, Sherman's was not.>>>> Trekker

You're a youth are you not? As you get older you will learn to deal with New England style snobbishness. Phone your friends in Boston after the next January deep freeze, and ask `em how much they're enjoying those historic buildings that day. Or better yet, ignore `em. Atlanta has its own historic charm, and just because your ancestors didn't come over on the Mayflower doesn't mean you don't have a heritage.

On the other hand, your statement that Sherman's devastation was no accident is indeed true. But remember the ultimate cause of that destruction - - bull-headed sessecionists who wanted to destroy our country. It's silly to blame the mosquitos for the bites when it was you who left the screen open.

Jeffery


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SoxFan59
"Its fiction, but all the facts are true!"

Jeff/Trekker:

I get a little jumpy when I deal with neo-Confederates who get into this drivel about the honor and glory of the Confederate cause. I take that issue pretty seriously, and I apologize if I jumped out a little too hard.

And compared to this grey head, you are a youth.

Atlanta is a great spot - - it has a lot to offer culturally, if not great Pizza.

To satisfy Mr. S, perhaps we could debate whether the Union or the Confederacy had better Pizza during the civil war.



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SoxFan59
"Its fiction, but all the facts are true!"

Oh definitely the Union. Only those sick and twisted people could come up with something that messy, gooey, and bad for you. Of course, Satan is the cause, bad for you but tastes good.

Hey, at least you have hair to be gray. I am only 30 and am mostly bald.

No hard feelings Sox. I know from your posts you are a good guy.

Jeffery

I am not the cause of anything!

But seriously, my Southern friend... What IS Atlanta known for when it comes to cuisine?

I live in Raleigh, which likes to be known for BBQ (but I think it sucks) and I've been to Charleston, which is known for Low Country Cuisine, which I really enjoyed - like a combination of New Orleans-type cajun and Southern fare - Shrimp with Grits is a specialty, for example...

Not wanting to fight, brother, just trying to stay on topic.

The name is for shock value... I can see it worked!

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Brian O'Neill
CMC International Records
www.cmcinternational.com

ICQ 35294890
AIM Scrabble1
Yahoo Messenger Brian_ONeill

Sorry Satan, but I will reply here to SoxFan and then if we need to we can create another thread.

First this is the BBQ Pit, so I felt like flaming a little.

To Sox, I was really just trying to stir up some fun. I am quite proud of Atlanta and I assume that most people are proud of their area of the country (at least if they have lived there all their life as I have).

I guess I am not sure what you consider to be a youth, I am 30. I still like to think myself as youthful, but hardly a teen. I believe I have learned to deal with people's attitudes from all over. Again, I am proud of Atlanta and its heritage. I do not argue these things seriously with anyone, only in gest.

I did not think that you would take my statements so seriously, especially uttered in the Pit.

BTW, since I am only 30, I was not the one who was seceeding. Again, I said I wish slavery had never happened and there had never been a need for war.

Obviously, the South has something to offer, we have a growing number of transplants from all over.

Jeffery

My 2 cents..Never been to Chicago or N.Y. and I really don't want to get into like a Civil War discussion.(what is that, anyway?)

I agree with the comments about a wonderful variety of foods, here in Ca. But the ? was about pizza. So...My input is this; I haven't lived in the Bay Area since 1979 but there used to be a tiny place (and of course I can't remember its name) on San Jose's east side that was barely more than a street cart. (it was, however, on a permanent foundation) People would drive there from all over for this pizza. (Line out the door and down the street) It was stacked with toppings and cheese, the right amount of sauce and just greasy enough to be juicy. Very close friends of mine are Italians who were raised in Little Italy..ok, here it is...They swore that the best pizza was back home (never asked if they meant Little Italy, New York, or the country-assumed the obvious) HOWEVER; they went on to say that this place came in 2nd place hands down.
BTW..they cut their pizza in squares.

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Lew
"Man, the 60's must have been real good for you!"
George Carlin..."Outrageous Fortune"

"Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore"
Dorothy..."The Wizard of Oz"

I wasn't really blaming you for Pizza, just using the Christian concept of Satan offering that which looks/tastes good but is bad for you and combining it with the fact that you have choosen the screen name of Satan.

I do not guess Atlanta is known for any particular type of food. Mayor Cambell and the Gov usually agree to send ribs or peaches to mayor/gov of the city/state that the rival team playing our Atlanta team in the playoffs (Braves or Falcons).

I think due to the fact that Southern Cooking is very similar all over the south, there is not much to be known for there. Now that so many transplants have come down, we offer a wide variety of foods. Italian, Mexican, Japanese, Chinese, Russian, French, etc.

Jeffery

I prefer NY pizza. That said, I like Chicago pizza fine, it's just not what I consider to be pizza. More of an open faced sandwich.

However, Jeffery:

I think due to the fact that Southern Cooking is very similar all over the south, there is not much to be known for there. Now that so many transplants have come down, we offer a wide variety of
foods. Italian, Mexican, Japanese, Chinese, Russian, French, etc.

bolding mine

Makes me think of the scene in A Christmas Story when the Bumpus hounds have eaten the turkey, and they have dinner at a Chinese restaurant, "fa ra ra ra ra, fa ra ra ra..."

Dunno, it just struck me as funny.

Waste
Flick Lives!

[matt_mcl]

In a similar vein, just let me say this:

Montreal and New York have the best bagels outside of Israel. Toronto and Los Angeles pretend to do bagels, but they do not know jack shit about anything bagelicular. "Would you like a cinnamon-raisin bagel?" That's not a bagel, that's a doughnut made of bread!

[Lynn Bodoni]

I'm sort of scared to ask Matt what he thinks about chocolate chip bagals...personally, I think that they are two great tastes that DON'T taste great together.



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Lynn the Packrat

[According to Pliny]

matt - The Oxford English Dictionary is inviting the public to submit new words for its next edition. I think the word "bagelicular" would be a worthy addition to the OED.

[url]http://www.oed.com/readers/research.htm[url]

[According to Pliny]

Damn it!
http://www.oed.com/readers/research.htm