pp.? bbl.? What's up with these abbreviations?

[Hyperelastic]

Why is "pages" sometimes abbreviated "pp.", instead of "pgs."? What about "barrels"? Shouldn't it be "brls." and not "bbl."? Do these oddball abbreviations hearken back to an archaic or foreign spelling? Folks, what's up here?

[brassballs]

I hope someone answers this damn thing, I have been wondering about that barrel thing for a long time.

[Cliffy]

I'm curious about the origin as well, although the repetition of an abbreviation to designate the plural isn't uncommon -- I see it all the time in legal briefs where the section or paragraph symbol is repeated to reference multiple sections.

--Cliffy

[tim314]

Originally Posted by Hyperelastic

Why is "pages" sometimes abbreviated "pp.", instead of "pgs."? What about "barrels"? Shouldn't it be "brls." and not "bbl."? Do these oddball abbreviations hearken back to an archaic or foreign spelling? Folks, what's up here?

I've never heard the "barrels" one, but I was always taught that it was "p." for "page", and "pp." for "pages." Which suggests that it's not based on any sort of unusal spelling, just a somewhat literal way of pluralizing "page."

[Eurograff]

Exactly. When talking about a single page, single p. is used, when multiple pages, two pp. is customary, so you say p. 14 but pp. 15-20 for example. And it seems bbl means "blue barrel" originally, this is probably because oil companies used barrels colored blue. One reason why bbl is more popular than bl is that outside US the barrel unit is only referred to when talking about oil.

[vetbridge]

Lymph node is often abbreviated ln. Lymph nodes is often abbreviated lnn.

(veterinary medicine example)

[Bambi Hassenpfeffer]

Originally Posted by tim314

I've never heard the "barrels" one, but I was always taught that it was "p." for "page", and "pp." for "pages." Which suggests that it's not based on any sort of unusal spelling, just a somewhat literal way of pluralizing "page."

Which is odd, because Spanish does this same thing -- UE = la Unión Europea = the European Union and EE.UU. = los Estados Unidos = the United States.

I've been wondering if it has roots in Latin, or if it's a separate development.

[bibliophage]

I suspect this usage does derive from Latin. In English it's usually a simple matter to add -s to pluralize the word. In Latin, there are many different plural endings, depending on case and declension, so it is simpler to double the first letter of the word, or for phrases, of the important word(s). The website http://www.roman-britain.org/latin.htm shows that this method of forming the plural of abbreviations was not unknonw in Latin in Roman times (for example AA NN = Augusti Nostri = our emperors). It may be related to the doubling of the initial letter to express the superlative (ff=fortissimo, pp=pianissimo) but I can't find evidence that this usage was common in Roman times.

In modern English, these are some common examples for some words derived from Latin.

c. = chapter (L. caput)
cc. = chapters (L. capita)

v. = verse (L. versus [short second "u"])
vv. = verses (L. versus [long second "u"])

p. = page (L. pagina)
pp. = pages (L. paginae)

ms. = manuscript (L. manu scriptum, a thing written by hand)
mss. = manuscripts (L. manu scripta, things written by hand)

LL.B., LL.D., or LL.M. = Bachelor, Doctor, or Master of Law (L. Legum Baccalaureus, Legum Doctor, Legum Magister, where legum is the genitive plural of lex, "a law")

q.v. = see which thing (L. quod vide)
qq.v. = see which things (L. quae vide)

I would guess that this pluralizing process has been generalized to words not of Latin origin, which explains bbl. for barrels and hhd. for hogshead.

[bibliophage]

Originally Posted by bibliophage

I would guess that this pluralizing process has been generalized to words not of Latin origin, which explains bbl. for barrels and hhd. for hogshead.

I should have read Eurograff's post more closely and I should have guessed that hhd. means hogshead. It appears both bbl. and hhd. can be used as either the singular or plural.

"Blue Barrel" is the correct origin of bbl., according to the Department of Energy. I didn't know that before. http://www.eia.doe.gov/kids/energyfa...luebarrel.html

[Hyperelastic]

Originally Posted by bibliophage

I suspect this usage does derive from Latin. In English it's usually a simple matter to add -s to pluralize the word...

Fascinating! Thank you.