Guess what, ladies, we're ruining this country!

I'm so furious I could spit. Here is the URL for a web site called "Father's Manifesto" http://members.easyspace.com/fathers/ that not only bashes the feminist movement of the last 30 years, but women in general. Did you know that women really are worse drivers than men? Women have ruined the public education system? Women can't do math (ok, so I'm no good at math, and even said that on my own web page, but I know plenty of women who are)? Never should have gotten the vote because they aren't smart enough to understand politics? That it takes 14 men in the work place to make up for the unproductiveness of one woman? I could go on and on, but my stomach is already churning and the bile is burning the back of my throat.

The thing that really gripes me is that I could write to these bozos and talk about how I have gotten fewer speeding tickets and had fewer accidents than my husband, I'm a better speller and reader than my husband and father, unlike one of the (few) men in my office I've never fallen asleep at my computer with porn up on the screen, but they would just respond that all of these mens' short comings are the fault of women; the women that raised them, the women that taught them, the women that hired them and supervise them. We're damned if we do, damned if we don't, damned for what we never did.

I'm angry, but I feel so impotent. These people want to do away with women's right to vote, for pity's sake. They want women to stay home, pregnant yes, barefoot, probably. Women spend too much of men's money on shoes anyway, I'm sure. See what happens when they get jobs? They buy shoes.

These guys probably think the Taliban in Afghanistan have the right idea. I'm not being facetious. This site is as ugly and hateful as the WhitesOnly page I stumbled onto a couple weeks ago, or the GodHatesFags page everyone talks about. The site even says women don't deserve Equal Protection, that this is strictly for black males and was wrongly misapplied to women. Excuse me, I'm going to vomit now.

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"I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it," Jack Handy

GR8Kat, when the revolution comes, I'll be ready. I do dishes, back-rubs, and windows.
I can do diapers, either 3 or 4 cornered, with either 1 or 2 pins. I am capable of shutting up for hours at a time.
Try to remember this when the shooting starts, please!

Im a guy & I learned to do all the housework, cleaning, laundry, just about anything a woman would be expected to do. This is sort of an outgrowth of being in the 70s when woman's lib came henceforth. Now it's more confusing, do women want to be equal or do they want to be protected?

Judge Judy made a point on her show once that if women want equal rights then they must accept that men can hit them.

Handy, Equal Protection is about protection from discrimination, not getting hit. This is what the Father's Manifesto says about that:

It is anti-male bias to assert that males and females are "equal". Supreme Court Justice Burger, after almost a century in which the term "equal protection" had clearly applied only to the release of slaves and giving male slaves the vote, inexplicibly applied it to females in Reed v. Reed in November 22, 1971 with "[it is] DISCRIMINATION PROHIBITED BY AND THEREFORE VIOLATIVE OF THE EQUAL PROTECTION CLAUSE OF THE FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT."

The Father's Manifesto asserts that women don't deserve protection from discrimination because they ARE NOT equal.

I don't want special considerations just because I'm a woman. I want to be recognized as being equal. I want to vote, do my job, decide what I want to do with my future, and not be told that it's my sole purpose in life to make babies and keep a nice house so my husband will be pleased with me. I prefer he be pleased with me because I help make us a good living, make good decisions, and can kick ass when we watch Win Ben Stein's Money.

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"I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it," Jack Handy

GR8Kat, when the revolution comes, I'll be ready. I do dishes, back-rubs, and windows.
I can do diapers, either 3 or 4 cornered, with either 1 or 2 pins. I am capable of shutting up for hours at a time.
Try to remember this when the shooting starts, please!

[shakes head] that's not what I'm talking about, though. I don't want to overthrow men, I want to be acknowledged as an equal partner. It's easy to take for granted that women are already, but then when you're slapped in the face with a site like this that gathers statics that "prove" that the feminist movement is responsible for increases in men's deaths due to coronary heart disease, and decreases in national geometry scores, it's awfully disheartening.

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"I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it," Jack Handy

MADD and DUI laws also (according to the Father's Manifesto) lead to an increase in automobile fatalities as drunk men are less likely to cause wrecks than sober women.

Who should wash dishes or change diapers is NOT what this web site is about. I put this under BBQ pit and not GD forum because I don't want to debate the subject, I want to rant, rave, tear my hair, rend my clothing, and basically be the irrational female that I am

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"I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it," Jack Handy

You just rant and rave to your heart's content. Don't worry your pretty head about these twits, however. < eg > They are loons who couldn't carry a cogent argument in a bushel basket (with two women to help them figure out how to load it).

I would guess that they are basically harmless (due to their overwhelming incompetence). What angers me about them is that they (or their ilk) may come to be seen as genuine representatives of the very serious issue of fathers and parental rights. That is an issue that has been screwed up in many local and state courts, but it has a lot of thorns and needs to be addressed intelligently. Turning these morons loose on the issue would pretty much guarantee that no rational decision could be made.

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Tom~

GR8Kat, I'm sorry. Bad Joke.
I do understand, though. When I was in the Air Force, females that train along with me and were my equal in EVERY sense of the word were pulled of the flight line one by one and assigned secretarial duties to various colonels and generals. Outside the military, in my line of work(security)any female that isn't "friendly" to her co-workers is instantly labeled a lesbian.
Are women's restrooms soundproofed? I think you go in groups for a group primal scream sometimes. How the HELL do you put up with us?

Yep, some people are just dumb...Did you see the Ladies' Manifesto page (linked off of the FM page)? I thought that it was disturbing to see that women subscribe to this line of thinking. Although, I rather enjoyed some of the guy's examples (no grasp of geometry = women have no right to vote)... Ah well, as a future engineer/mathematician I laugh at the notion that women can't do math.

Keep up the good work, ladies, 'cause no one's going to take care of you in this world.

Judge Judy made a point on her show once that if women want equal rights then they must accept that men can hit them.

Unless Judge Judy was specifically referring to men hitting them back*, then she's on crack. I don't have to accept that anyone, male or female, can hit me; Jane Public shouldn't have to either.

* - in reference to the idea that if a woman hits a man, she has no business using the "You can't hit me, I'm just a girl!" bit...


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~jon

My favorite:

"Males as a group pay more than 100% of federal taxes."

And who sucks at math?

Stoidela...

Ahem..{BLUSH}..thank you

Stoidela--

If you are referring to Slythe in the plural, I think I've seen his picture on a web site, right next to the woman with the two champagne bottles...

Slythe:


[quote]How the HELL do you put up with us?[quote]

We like your penises.





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Stoidela

Don't meddle in the affairs of dragons, cuz, like, you're crunchy
and taste good with ketchup.

I knew I was just torturing myself, but I had to check out this Father's Manifesto website! I was torn (figuratively) between laughter (more than 100%, indeed!) and tears (95% of all rapes reported are false!) I couldn't check it out for too long because it was really pissing me off, and then it flashed on me (not an ephiphany, but a flash) that anger is wasted on these freaks (just another sign of my feminine, emotional nature). One of my cardinal rules is NEVER to allow the Religious Reich to provoke me - it's the equivalent of flipping off someone who cut you off in traffic-it doesn't matter to them, and it makes you more angry for having done it...

Bwaaaahhhhhh haaaa haaa! That site is hilarious!

What I want to know is why they have a picture of someone holding a rubber chicken.

I saw a book in Barnes &Noble that argue that all men should pay a higher tax because men commit all of the crimes. Not quite as nutty as this, but along the same lines.

Re: The Ladies Manifesto page! How too fuckin' Victorian (Ladies! and the page itself is all pink and mauve with little cupids and all). It's even funnier than the Father's Manifesto, because the gal that writes it is apparently right next door to being an illiterate (mistress of the run-on sentence, dangling participle, misspelled epithet), but believes she is writing truly deathless opinions! All of ten people have signed the guestbook, and four of them are negative comments. I don't think we need to worry about a repeal of the 19th amendment any time soon (by the way check out the petition on the Father's page to accomplish just this goal-it has about 40 signatures-somehow, I think that may be a problem for them...)

The whole thing just makes me heartsick. And one of the things that amazes me is that, if you click on the Repeal the 19th Amendment link, you see a letter from a woman who agrees it should be repealed. She writes that women vote based on whatever their hormones tell them at the moment, and that we need to go back to a single vote per household because husbands and wives vote the opposite on issues and cancel each other out. I don't have a problem with families discussing how they wish to vote, but the idea that only men should get the vote so that, in the case of disagreement, the final decision of the vote is made by the one person, and only that person's voice will be heard because only his is worth hearing, is ridiculous.

Sorry for the run on sentences, but I've got a lot of thoughts I want to cram into each sentence.

I grew up in a two-parent household and I always thought they had an equal partnership. My mom actually handled most of the family finances, kept the books and paid the bills. I never saw dad supervise her over her shoulder, double check her figures, or do anything that showed her didn't trust her math or decision making abilities. When he became too disabled to work, she went back to college and got a job. Would the ladies of the Ladies' Manifesto site be willing or able to do that? Math is hard and driving is scary! Thinking hurts, the man is supposed to do all that!

To me, feminism has always been about the right to make choices. Women should be allowed to choose whether they want to stay at home or work, be mothers or not, drive or not. Men should have the same choices. And when men and women choose their mates, they need to choose ones whose choices are compatible with theirs. Now if someone changes their mind during the relationship... well, I personally don't think it's fair to switch horses in midstream. My husband accepts that someday I may not physically be able to work. That's something we have to deal with. Hopefully, many decades down the line. However, if tomorrow he decides work sucks and he'd rather watch tv, we'd be royally screwed and I don't think that would be fair to either of us. Especially since we'd lose the satellite dish and he couldn't watch tv unless he went back to work, but I digress.

I resent the idea that one portion of the population can pursue their goals, careers, and dreams because it's their God given right because of that little hunk of flesh between their legs, while the other portion can pursue their goals, careers, and dreams as long as it's ok with the first portion, and preferably if these goals, etc., involve keeping house and making babies, since that's all they're good for anyway. I don't have a problem with women who stay home to raise families, I just resent the idea of being born into a box where that's all that's expected or allowed of me.

This lady who wrote about repealing the 19th amendment, I think her name is Alia, went on to emphasize that she supports making it a one-vote-per-household process, so that, theoretically, if 2 lesbians lived together, they would still have just one vote, but they would have the vote. How progressive! So by getting married, women would be sacrificing their voice. The man could silence it if he chooses. I ache when I read that.

I wish I hadn't posted that link in my OP, because I can't resist the temptation to go back there and read more, even though it makes me sick. It's like a train wreck, horrible but morbidly fascinating.

I wonder... what would happen... if ... someone e-mailed this thread to one or the other or both sites......

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"I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it," Jack Handy

Check out my comments in their guestbook on the "Ladies" page. The gal who maintains the page answered me back, and she just reinforces all the negatives there are about the Christian Reich- that they're ignorant, intolerant and almost rabid. She wrote that I'm selfish because I don't want kids, I've been educated in a "Fembot" education system, and that's why I am the way I am (wrong-I went to Catholic school-I can't imagine any system more traditional and patriarchal than that!), etc.. It's like you said, Gr8Kat- visiting these sites is scarily fascinating, like a train wreck, but as silly as these people are, I think it's important to be aware of them.

I dropped my two cents in her lap as well.

It leaves me utterly baffled, I must admit.




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Stoidela

Don't meddle in the affairs of dragons, cuz, like, you're crunchy
and taste good with ketchup.

I dropped mine in as well. I wanted to start screaming at my computer - people that stupid make me crazy.

hmmm, we could just move this thread into the ladies' manifesto guestbook. Afterall, this Lynda seems to have a burning desire to respond to all of the negative posts ;-)

She could probably use the diversion...

Ursel (only half in jest)

I think it's a laugh riot that out of thirteen "guests", 5 comments are negative, 3 are positive, 2 are incoherent, and the other 3 are this wacked out babe's own flame throwing ON HER OWN PAGE! Boy, doesn't she freak out big time if you disagree with her AT ALL- it would be pretty freakin' funny, except SHE BELIEVES THIS STUFF. I can only imagine the kind of childhood she had. By the way, thanks for entering your comments in her guestbook (and it is a shitty guestbook, it unformatted all my nice paragraphs, making my comments look as illiterate as "Lynda's"). I think we should get all our friends and neighbors to torch her, but then it isn't really sportin' to have a battle of wits with an unarmed woman...

Here is the URL to one of my favorite (not updated often enough, though) pages: http://www2.cybercities.com/s/shanmonster/witch/

Not a Wicca or Neo-pagan page, but rather about the genocide (or gynocide) waged against women for being the inferior, wicked sex. I'd like to think that society as a whole isn't stupid enough to return to these days, but it frightens me that even a few people out there could still hold such beliefs; ie, that women are inherently evil and need to be controlled. The Ladies' Manifesto page doesn't stress this point much (surprise), but the Fathers' Manifesto page comes right out and says that women are vicious, lying, murdering whores. Not just feminists, but women in general are more evil and conniving than men. More women cheat than men, abuse or kill their spouses and children than men, will lie about abuse and rape to put men in jail, etc., etc. And this really, really riles me because it's just set up to put women on the defensive so they point fingers back at men. But I'm not anti-man. I don't want to start spouting off about the evils of men because my father and husband never did any of the things on the list any more than my mother and I have. Again, it makes me heartsick.

On a side note, I don't mind the term "Lady" because it's about the only term of respect left for women that hasn't been degraded or vulgarized. Consider Madame (runs a whore house), Mistress (a married man's affair on the side), Governess (nanny), Queen (man who dresses as a woman), Dame (slang that about equals "broad"). Compare Sir, Master, Governor, King, etc. "Mrs." used to be an abbreviation for Mistress, but because of the negative connotations, it's been bastardized to "Missus." It doesn't even stand for a real word anymore. I don't have a problem with Lady (male equivalent = Lord). Better than bitch or ho.

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"I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it," Jack Handy

I don't hate men either - in fact, I generally get along better with guys, and I have a husband who could be the model for The Sensitive,Manly Supportive Guy.

These people are fringe loonies with major inferiority complexes, the sort of folks who are actually scared to see a women in a doctor's coat, or probably even a person of color in a suit, because it threatens their Neanderthal worldview. The "ladies" part just cracked me up within the neo-Victorian context of the web page design. It's the sort of place where they still might call homesexuality "The Love That Dare Not Speak Its' Name"...

that's homosexuality, by the by...

I do like the comment that it takes 14 men to make up for the unproductiveness of 1 woman. I mean, if you assume that, at the worst, a person just sits at their desk twiddling their thumbs all day, then it should take just 1 person to make up that 1 person's work. So what does it say about the men that it takes 14 of them to make up this work? How much did they expect that poor woman to do?? Just a thought

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"I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it," Jack Handy

Hey Falcon and Stoidela, did you get flamed back yet from the Manifesto chick?- she's so rabid she's totally incoherent- laugh riot! It's like she can't resist the challenge to get in your face, and she is so pathetic.

Yep alex, I did. And did you get the message from that guy? You know, this whole thing makes me sick. And I met a woman tonight online who agreed with them, and told me that the idea that women make less than men is a myth. *sigh*

So you're selfish for not wanting children?

I remember reading an editorial in Time magazine several years ago by a woman who didn't want children. I can't remember her exact reasons why but she went through a whole list of them. A few weeks later, Time published Letters to the Editor by women attacking the author of the editorial. They lit into her for being selfish and immature and an all-around terrible person.

Here's my question: If women who don't want children are so selfish, immature, and terrible, why do these people want them to breed??

Personally, I think it takes alot of intelligence and maturity to view yourself objectively enough to say "Maybe I should not have a child."

I have a feeling that this type of anti-female opinion is going to become more prominent. I don't believe the misogynists are going to give up the fight graciously. This sort of hate will become especially loud if the economy gets bad because people will want to blame people of a different sex or race as opposed to taking a long hard look at the real problems. As long as we're fighting with each other, we're pretty neutralized and immobile.

I guess you can look at that website as the death-throes of a threatened group of people. If they didn't feel threatened, they wouldn't lash back so vehemently.

I know- what a selfish non breeding bitch I am-damn me for thinking-and by the way, if I had any grasp of math at all, I'd know there was no no population overflow on this planet-the feminists put that idea in my head-along with the hole in the ozone, child sexual abuse by men, etc.-Trailer Apes, my seatmate at work called this lot, and she was so right...

You know, Ursel suggested (half kidding) that this whole thread be sent to the Ladies Manifesto URL- and personally I think that would be great fun. But as others have stated, this is so disheartening- that people should voice these ideas on the eve of the 21st Century. Can these people really hate and fear modern women so much that they rewrite history? I had an email earlier that said Marie Curie was basically a secretary who extorted her dying husband's promise to name her as the discoverer of radium on his deathbed- what did she threaten him with, I wonder - death? On top of that, Pierre Curie happened to be killed instantly in a street accident, so WHAT death bed? I won't even address what he said about Margaret Mead- and he'd never heard of Jane Goodall- I guess the religious Reich doesn't dig National Geographic Specials. I think that these people are of the same sort that still contend that all those ovens in Poland were smelting works and industrial bakeries...Ja Wohl! Labor (and child rearing) Liberates!

Gasp! Sigh! Snoozle! I am bad at math! That was disheartening I'm tired of being a flunky for the state and decided I'd like to get paid for drawing and playing with the computer, so I'm attempting to enroll in school to study Visual Communications... but I did so horrendous in the math portion of the placement test, they'll probably want to send me back to the 5th grade before they accept me. I hope I can learn... I hope my 25 year old brain hasn't atrophied to the point where it would be a waste of time to try.

But, my point is, just cuz I suck doesn't mean I think all women do. So there.

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"I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it," Jack Handy

I meant to say, "suck at math." Please don't read any more into it than there is. Thanks

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"I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it," Jack Handy

Check out the "Ladies" page- some nice old Christian dude professor flamed her BIGTIME, but apparently, since he's both a man and a self-professed Christian, she answered him back in private! I guess OUR "ignorance" just gets displayed in the guestbook... And I promise myself,in the future, no matter how tempting it is to delve into huge vats of stupidity, I will NOT FOLLOW THAT THREAD- will not, will not, will not...

Gr8Kat, don't go there!-Don't beat yourself up- I sucked in math for years, but I scored in the upper 1% for English on my SATs when I was a youngster- so I went with my strengths- and you know, now that I'm older, and have had several jobs where math apptitude is essential, you adapt, and you learn- I'm great in math now, and I even realize that there IS a reason for Algebra other than letting "a" equal something! Don't despair! It isn't all "two cows left Detroit at 10:45, etc, etc." Take a tutorial class with one of these new private tutorial places that have popped up- they're not all that expensive (you can even get financial aid), and it will help you. Don't give up!

Actually, I'm rather proud to say that I finished the reading and writing portions before anyone else with mucho time to spare. That was kind of a boost after the math devastation. But... we were told we could pick which math test to take, so I started taking the elementary algebra test since I seem to remember passing it once in high school, and was horrified that nothing made sense. I finally gave up and switched to rudimentary math, but it was too late. I only got halfway through it when time was up. But... I didn't cry

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"I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it," Jack Handy

To Gr8Kat: we southern gentlemen have been calling you ladies "Miz" long before "Ms." came along. All kidding aside, I am proud to point out that Tennessee was the deciding vote in passing the 19th Ammendment. Anybody who thinks that recognizing the citizenship of a woman makes it OK for a man to hit her is a damned idiot. Obviously, there are quite a few idiots out there...as evidenced by the absurd and hateful sites you folks are talking about. Try not to let them get to you. I believe that Life is indeed a joke.
...but we should always strive to make it a GOOD joke.


"I'm not denyin' the women are foolish: God Almighty made 'em to match the men."
-- George Eliot

"The first time Adam had a chance he laid the blame on woman."
-- Nancy Astor

"Where did your Christ come from?...From God and a woman. Man had nothing to do with him."
-- Sojourner Truth

Same for me with the SATs-first 1% in English, bottom 10% in Math. But like I said, this is not genetically ordained- I sucked in Math because I wasn't interested then- but now I am, and I'm great at that stuff now. Probably people will scoff at this evidence of my math ability, but I worked as the shop foreperson at a movie studio, and I had to figure out how many gallons of paint, varnish, etc would be needed for a set-THATS when you see math in action! And I didn't have to call my dad or Jaime Espinosa for help!

P.S. My Mom was a math teacher, a darn good one. But as her son, I struggled with that accursed subject. Go figure. Please, because I can't.

She deleted everything that was negative. I was sorry tohave missed the post from the Christian man...that would have been interesting.

I say we all just keep going after her in the guestbook til she gets so frustrated she shuts it down altogether. Pound her! Pound her!

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Stoidela

Don't meddle in the affairs of dragons, cuz, like, you're crunchy
and taste good with ketchup.

The post from the professor was great- he told her she wouldn't recognize the Saviour if he hit her in the eye with a lightning bolt, and that by her reasoning Mother Theresa was a whore because she wasn't at home having babies!

homesexuality

a.k.a. Homeschool Sex Education Class

Hey I corrected my spelling error! But that's pretty funny anyway!

Hell, she's pruned her page again, and after I posted something that I thought was really smart and semi-respectful. So I posted something else. Wanna read it before it gets deleted too?

Lynda, I had another thought... just out of morbid curiosity, how many black scientists, engineers, doctors, inventors, etc., can you name that have made a lasting impact on society? Probably about as many as you can women, hmm? Does that mean that blacks are also inferior to and should be subjugated by superior white males? Here's another site that may be of interest to you; it goes to great detail about why blacks are inferior, evil, and need to be controlled, and backs it up with legal cites, Bible stories, and statistics. They view blacks as poorly as you and the Father's Manifesto view women. Happy reading! www.whitesonly.net

Here's my semi-respectful, already deleted message:

Lynda, I'm very disappointed to see that you deleted messages from your guest book, particularly those from a very wise Christian father. Are you not allowed to disagree with a man? Is that why you had to delete his words rather than refute them? I find it very odd to read on your page that equalists are obsessed with their genitals. It seems to me that those who wish to reinforce gender stereotypes are the ones more concerned with genitals. Personally, I just want to get my job done and help provide for my family so we can live comfortably. Mostly, I just want to live my life without it being dictated by my gender. I have dreams and goals that involve making life better for both my husband and me. I resent strangers telling me I'm not smart enough or capable enough to achieve this based soley on my gender. My husband and mother think I can, my father (God rest his soul) thought I could, why should I listen to strangers tell me otherwise? How can you presume to know what's better for me than they do? How can you presume to know better than me what is in my heart and mind? And how can you presume to tell me that what is or isn't between my legs is more important? Life is about choices, for men and women both. You made yours and you have the right to be respected for it. The rest of us have made ours and we ask the same.

Oh well. I can't preach to her, so I'll preach to the choir

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"I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it," Jack Handy

Yeah, I think we've had all the fun we're going to be allowed to have with the Stepford Wives homepage- ah well, it was fun while it lasted...

She's moved all the stuff she doesn't like to a page called "Feminist hatemail". Apparantly, anything anyone says in disagreement with her constitutes hatemail.

sigh...

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Stoidela

******Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!******

When are we all going to come to the realization that some people are just assholes? Some of these assholes are men, some are women, some are black, some are white, some are fat, some are thin, some are tall and some are short, some are gay, some are straight. Don't let them get to you. This shadowy "they" isn't hurting anything, you're just allowing them to piss you off. To sit back and say some type of asshole is ruining the country is callow and counterproductive. Almost as counterproductive as it is to whine about the asshole who said it in the first place. Shake it off and go on with your life. If they get really annoying give them the finger... As long as they are only bitching then what do you gain by having a hissy?

Oh, the only exceptions to this Asshole Rule of Thumb (as stated above)is that nearly all consultants are assholes, interesting.

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PS Have a nice day.

I really understand how several of you want to pound this nitwit's site, but really -you're just encouraging them. You're making them feel important, that they're being taken seriously. I know it's frustrating, but these are the kind of people you can't reason with.

And how do they think they can repeal the 19th Amendment? "Guess who would get to vote on that, you women-hating pinhead's - WE WOULD."

[b]Gr8kat[/]: 25 is not past that math-learning curve. 42 is well past it, I know that, but not 25. You can do it.

Thanks, aseymayo. I try to bear in mind, too, that it has been eight years since I took any kind of a math course. I'm just a little (or a lot) rusty, but I learned algebra once, I can learn it again

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"I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it," Jack Handy