The City I Want To Live In: Does It Exist?

[Liz]

Dopers, I ask for your esteemed opinions and information. Nay, I dare say I beg after spending a few days researching and tearing my hair out in frustration.

I'm thinking of moving rather soon [next six months or so], and I'm trying to figure out where to go. Job security isn't an issue, as I'll be taking my job with me, so that helps a bit. With that said, here are my needs/wants:

Affordable.
Gay friendly.
Public transit.
Southernish, from Maryland down [can't deal with the bad winters].
No more than roughly 8 hours from where I am now [Southern Ohio].
The closer to the coast, the better.
Rich in culture and things to see/do/explore.
Attractive and clean.
Relatively safe.

Does this place exist? Or am I describing an unobtainable utopia?

Takoma Park, Maryland and the surrounding area seemed ideal -- until I looked at the real estate prices. A three bedroom, small, brick home goes for $500,000 there. I'm going to be renting initially [and probably for a decently long time], but I'd like it to be somewhere that I could feasibly buy a home in the future.

Many, many, many thanks in advance.

Oh, and feel free to pimp any other towns/cities that don't fit all of my criteria -- I'm very interested in most any ideas that are on the East Coast.

[Scott Plaid]

Originally Posted by chatelaine

Takoma Park, Maryland and the surrounding area seemed ideal

I've been there. It is infested with filthy, filthy hippies , including my family.

Sorry, I have only been to places outside my state, not gotten a good idea of places in this one, besides Baltimore, and that does not fit your bill. Perhaps Delaware? No taxes on consummer goods.

[Liz]

Filthy hippies? I can do that!

Hey, you know, Delaware is an idea.. hadn't really even considered it. I'm going to have to look into that area now and see what's what. Thanks, Scott!

[Scott Plaid]

You are quite welcome. I can give you some phone numbers to call, if you want to hear from residents of Takoma Park. Also, I vacation in Delaware. (Where sdid I put that thread?) It is quite nice.

[Liz]

I think Takoma Park is more than likely out of reach for me, if the real estate prices I saw online were any indication. However, I'd love to read your Delaware vacation thread -- I'll run a search and find it! My wife and I poked around Rehobath Beach and the surrounding areas a few years ago, and it seemed to be quite the pretty place.

[Scott Plaid]

If you search for Delaware, you will find it, but I post way to much for you to search through them, so here. That should not stop you, however, for searching for threads about delaware.

[Lamar Mundane]

Other than the location, downtown Denver would fit the bill. Contrary to poular belief, winters in Denver are quite mild, with the snow coming in big ammounts, but melting quickly.

This weekend there is a big pridefest, as well as the U.S. Womens Golf Open.

Notice I said Downtown Denver specifically. There is a big gay community there, but other parts of the Metro area aren't quite as friendly and the places that are (Boulder) can be just as expensive as Takoma Park.

[CrankyAsAnOldMan]

I don't know how much public transit there is in Asheville, NC, but otherwise it might be an okay bet.

[Cassie Beth]

Chapel Hill/Carrboro, NC is about 2.5 hours from the beach, and probably a bit more than 8 hours from where you are now (I'm horrible with distances, so don't trust me on that estimate), but it meets the rest of your qualifications. It's a college town, but there are families and plenty of out of college singles there.

[Green Bean]

What about Philadelphia? I don't know much about individual neighborhoods, but I'm sure someone can tell you what might be "clean and safe" and affordable. It's not quite as south as you want, but damned close. The winters are actually pretty mild. It's very close to the coast. It probably would take you about 6 hours to get from there to the PA/OH border. It has public transport. I suppose it's as gay-friendly as any major city, and it has lots of culture and things to do. It's also only a couple of hours from NYC, DC, and Baltimore, so that greatly expands your "stuff to do" opportunities.

Plus, it's the only place on earth where you can get a decent cheesesteak.

[Fionn]

If you were flexible on the distance from where you are now, I'd recommend Austin, Texas. The Gulf of Mexico is only a few hours away, but there are lakes and rivers all over the Austin area. It's safe, tons of things to do, has a large gay community, and I'm told the public transit system is good.

[Nawth Chucka]

I found a great site - www.findyourspot.com. You answer a bunch of questions and it's quite comprehensive. They ask about all the things you listed that you want. That's how I found my hometown-to-be, Charleston, SC.

[Shagnasty]

It sounds like Charlottesville, Virginia meets most of your criteria.

[Liz]

Originally Posted by Lamar Mundane

Other than the location, downtown Denver would fit the bill. Contrary to poular belief, winters in Denver are quite mild, with the snow coming in big ammounts, but melting quickly.

This weekend there is a big pridefest, as well as the U.S. Womens Golf Open.

Notice I said Downtown Denver specifically. There is a big gay community there, but other parts of the Metro area aren't quite as friendly and the places that are (Boulder) can be just as expensive as Takoma Park.

I've seen some pictures of Denver that were so beautiful -- I think it had something to do with the wildflower association or some such. Really glorious. Alas, it is too far. Thank you, though!

Originally Posted by CrankyAsAnOldMan

I don't know how much public transit there is in Asheville, NC, but otherwise it might be an okay bet.

I haven't checked out Asheville at all, and I'm not even sure if I've heard of it before -- will absolutely do so now.

Originally Posted by Cassie Beth

Chapel Hill/Carrboro, NC is about 2.5 hours from the beach, and probably a bit more than 8 hours from where you are now (I'm horrible with distances, so don't trust me on that estimate), but it meets the rest of your qualifications. It's a college town, but there are families and plenty of out of college singles there.

Chapel Hill has always been near the top of the list for me, as has Wilmington. It's about the right distance, too. This one definitely is up for heavy consideration.

Originally Posted by Green Bean

What about Philadelphia? I don't know much about individual neighborhoods, but I'm sure someone can tell you what might be "clean and safe" and affordable. It's not quite as south as you want, but damned close. The winters are actually pretty mild. It's very close to the coast. It probably would take you about 6 hours to get from there to the PA/OH border. It has public transport. I suppose it's as gay-friendly as any major city, and it has lots of culture and things to do. It's also only a couple of hours from NYC, DC, and Baltimore, so that greatly expands your "stuff to do" opportunities.

Plus, it's the only place on earth where you can get a decent cheesesteak.

You know, even though it's a bit far north for me, Philadelphia keeps cropping up whenever I make this list. I've been there once or twice, and I did like the city a great deal. For some reason, though, whenever I think of Philadelphia I think of huge snows and very reserved people. Is that way off base?

Originally Posted by Fionn

If you were flexible on the distance from where you are now, I'd recommend Austin, Texas. The Gulf of Mexico is only a few hours away, but there are lakes and rivers all over the Austin area. It's safe, tons of things to do, has a large gay community, and I'm told the public transit system is good.

The distance is pretty nonnegotiable, I'm afraid, but I covet being that close to the Gulf and plan to get down there someday. Thanks for the suggestion, Fionn.

Originally Posted by Portia

I found a great site - www.findyourspot.com. You answer a bunch of questions and it's quite comprehensive. They ask about all the things you listed that you want. That's how I found my hometown-to-be, Charleston, SC.

You are a LIFESAVER. I owe you a drink if I end up near Charleston at some point. Thank you so much -- that site is awesome and just what I needed.

Originally Posted by Shagnasty

It sounds like Charlottesville, Virginia meets most of your criteria.

Funny you should mention Charlottesville -- I was just talking to my wife about C-ville, as it's about three hours or so south from where I grew up. It's a possibility, for sure.

Thanks bunches, guys, you've been way more helpful than I had hoped for, and it's really appreciated.

[Shalmanese]

What about Sydney, Australia?

Affordable - Bit iffy on that one, depends on which suburb you want to live in.
Gay friendly - check
Public transit - Hrmm... apart from the recent train troubles, check
Southernish, from Maryland down [can't deal with the bad winters]. - Double check
No more than roughly 8 hours from where I am now [Southern Ohio]. - Uh, no check :P
The closer to the coast, the better - check
Rich in culture and things to see/do/explore - check
Attractive and clean - check
Relatively safe - check

[DougC]

- - - There's a book named "The Places Rated Almanac" that lists a bunch of US and Canadian cities, and ranks them by various aspects. Visit a local giant bookstore in the trivia/reference section and see if they have a copy to breeze through.
~

[carlotta]

When I read your list Richmond, VA sprang to mind. My husband spends a lot more time there than I do, since he visits a good pal there about every two months or so. When I read him your list, he said it sounded like a good match.

Like any big city it has unsafe places, but you just learn to avoid those.

If Chapel Hill/Carrboro is a possibility for you, please consider DURHAM. Don't believe anything those Chapel Hillians tell you about Durham, especially not when it comes to crime. Yes, there is more crime here. No, I have not encountered any in my 10 wonderful years here.

If fact, my purse was stolen in Chapel Hill.

Chapel Hill does have the edge in public transit, since it is a smaller area to cover and the buses are FREE.

Asheville, NC is very very far away from the beach. But cool.

[davenportavenger]

Pittsburgh is surprisingly queer friendly, has public transportation (not as good as the A-class cities, but it exists), and is CHEAP. Rent on one half of a 2000 sq foot apartment costs me $400/month. It's a day's drive away from a coast, though, and doesn't have a lot of fancy cultural stuff, but I'm still not bored with it. It's also quite safe as long as you live in a good neighborhood.

[Zsofia]

Originally Posted by continuity eror

Pittsburgh is surprisingly queer friendly, has public transportation (not as good as the A-class cities, but it exists), and is CHEAP. Rent on one half of a 2000 sq foot apartment costs me $400/month. It's a day's drive away from a coast, though, and doesn't have a lot of fancy cultural stuff, but I'm still not bored with it. It's also quite safe as long as you live in a good neighborhood.

Do not, however, watch Queer as Folk as a source on Pittsburgh.

[Hey, It's That Guy!]

I was going to suggest Chapel Hill, North Carolina; Charleston, South Carolina; Savannah, Georgia; and Gainesville, Florida. All are a bit far from Ohio, but I imagine they'd all appeal to you by your criteria. I lived in Gainesville for the better part of seven years, and it's a Southern college town, with all the good and bad that brings with it. Plus you're two hours or less from three very large cities (Orlando, Tampa, and Jacksonville), and beaches on both coasts of Florida OR the Panhandle.

[Omniscient]

I won't bother reccomending Chicago since the weather thing is probably a non-stater, even if you're willing to accept Lake Michican as a "coast". Nails all the rest though.

Just one detail that might be relevant, are you looking for "urban" living or suburban living? There's a lot of cities, especially in the southeast, that are considered cities but in my estimation are more comparable to large suburbs. When talking about property do you picture a loft/condo or a house with a yard? If you look at a place like Chapel Hill you'll be getting a house and all that goes with it. If you're looking at Philly you're going to be getting a condo which is probably one level of a threeflat or a loft. Of course there are exceptions to both, but it's worth considering.

[Agent Foxtrot]

Do not, I repeat, do not move anywhere in or near the Washington, DC Beltway, such as Takoma Park. You will curse the daily traffic to holy hell, and, as a matter of fact, the entire Maryland-DC-Northern Virginia area is already to the breaking point of overpopulation, thanks to the massive influx of the "mass affluent" baby boomers who all took government jobs and choke our roads with "Luxury SUV's". Trust me, stay away. Mississippienne and I are trying to get out as soon as we have the money.

Austin, TX might be worth looking into...weather's warm and I heard it's one of the most liberal cities in the country.

Adam

[chefjef]

I hear Austin, TX, is very cool and very liberal and rich in culture. I'm not sure it's in the vicinity you're talking about though.

The DC area is absurdly expensive - if that is one of your criteria (affordability) - then forget about it. Otherwise it's nice though and fits most of your criteria.

I'm very familiar with North Carolina. Wilmington is excellent but might not be as rich in cultural activities as you'd hope. However, the film/tv industry is really hunkering down over there and has been for years so perhaps that will add some culture to it. Chapel Hill and Carrboro - perfect. I think they fit every criteria almost. Asheville is actually only 4 hours away from Charleston, SC, so it's actually not as far away from the beach as some say. It's anywhere from 6.5 to 10 hours away from the NC coast though. Very gay friendly, very liberal, gorgeous surroundings, culturally rich, clean, affordable, etc.

Good luck. Oh what size city do you want?

[Trunk]

I'm a little "rose tinted lenses" about Baltimore, but it's not out of whack for what you said.

Affordable. Check.
Gay friendly. Well, it's not gay-aggressive. There are gay bars. There aren't gay men walking around offering free hand jobs, though. Well, actually, I think there are.
Public transit. Busses and the light rail.
Southernish, from Maryland down [can't deal with the bad winters]. Check.
No more than roughly 8 hours from where I am now [Southern Ohio]. Check.
The closer to the coast, the better. Okay.
Rich in culture and things to see/do/explore. It's not NY, DC or even Philly, but it's probably got Columbus beat.
Attractive and clean.
Relatively safe.

These last two. . .there are parts of town that are ugly, dirty and unsafe. There are areas that are attractive, clean and safe. You can't generalize "unsafe" or "unclean" to the city because there are parts of town where crime is virtually nil.

Statistically though, we have high crime rates. The effect on my life is zilch.

The nice neighborhoods are becoming more expensive, but people who come house shopping from DC and NY think it's a steal.

[Clothahump]

Originally Posted by chatelaine

Dopers, I ask for your esteemed opinions and information. Nay, I dare say I beg after spending a few days researching and tearing my hair out in frustration.

I'm thinking of moving rather soon [next six months or so], and I'm trying to figure out where to go. Job security isn't an issue, as I'll be taking my job with me, so that helps a bit. With that said, here are my needs/wants:

Affordable.
Gay friendly.
Public transit.
Southernish, from Maryland down [can't deal with the bad winters].
No more than roughly 8 hours from where I am now [Southern Ohio].
The closer to the coast, the better.
Rich in culture and things to see/do/explore.
Attractive and clean.
Relatively safe.

Houston, TX

Fits the bill on everything except the 8 hour deal.

[Johanna]

There's good points
And bad points
I wil find a city
Find myself a city to live in
—Talking Heads, "Cities"

[NinjaChick]

Philadelphia, definitely.

There are very affordable apartments available. It may take a bit of looking, but I know you can find incredibly cheap housing around the University City area (named so because UPenn, Drexel, and Temple are pretty much all right there).

Gay friendly: Definitely. It's not a warm fuzzy utopia of acceptance, but compared to a lot of major cities, Philly is up there.

Public Transport: Decent - I don't know a whole lot about it, but I know that the bus system is pretty comprehensive, and there's any easily accessible subway that runs pretty far into Jersey. NJ Transit also runs a train from 30th street station (major train station in the city) to Atlantic City.

Southernish? Well...compared to Boston, we're pretty mild. Expect that if there is snow, the city gets hit hard, mostly because the infrastructure sucks and a lot of the streets are old, cobblestone, and very narrow, therefore hard to plow.

Ohio: My family made a several-times-a-year drive up to Cleveland a couple times every year for years; we always easily did it in a day.

Beach: Easy access, really.

It's pretty safe, decently clean, and fairly nice to look at. There is tons - literally tons - to do: a huge zoo, one of the largest municipal parks in the country, two rivers, dozens of museums, etc.

[Liz]

Thank you all! It's interesting to see how many Philly-supports there are, I'm really going to have to look at Philly more closely.

Also, the Austin nominations surprised me. Nice to see some of my notions dispelled about Texas and the like. The only thing that scares me about Texas is the scorpions and snakes!

And cheers to the Pittsburgh people, I actually lived in Pittsburgh before moving to Ohio. Lovely city. And I was born and raised in Virginia, so I know lots about there, too!

As for what size city I want and the urban/suburban question -- I would like mid-sized or larger, at least Richmond, VA sized. And I'd prefer.. hrm. Ideally, a house with a small yard but one that is directly on a busline or very very close to a stop.

I'll post a better reply tomorrow, I had a lot of oral surgery today and am very fuzzy in the brain. Thank you all again, you've been so helpful.

[Zoe]

I would not move anywhere until I had checked out three Southern cities: Ashville, N.C. (in the mountains), Charleston, S.C. and Savannah, Georgia. The last two are on the coast and a little far from your home, but they are beautiful. Savannah is my favorite. Read Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil to get the flavor of it. Fascinating book anyway. It explains why people drink martinis in the cemetery.

[Misnomer]

Originally Posted by Portia

I found a great site - www.findyourspot.com.

Interesting site! My top five spots are:

• Anchorage, Alaska
• Portland, Maine
• Manchester, New Hampshire
• Nashua, New Hampshire
• Duluth, Minnesota

I'd never thought about living in any of those states (well, maybe I'd thought about Alaska a little bit) -- but I will now! And it seems like maybe I should consider New England...

[aktep]

Originally Posted by chatelaine

Also, the Austin nominations surprised me. Nice to see some of my notions dispelled about Texas and the like. The only thing that scares me about Texas is the scorpions and snakes!

I've lived in Austin for 26 years and I've only seen one scorpion. Now, it was in my living room at the time, but just one. (newly contructed house -- haven't seen one since).

Snakes are pretty much confined to scrub brush in the country, although you might see a harmless grass snake or two in the city. Snakes usually avoid people.

[Johanna]

I've been to Savannah and thought it was one of the most gorgeous cities in the USA. I haven't been to Asheville, though I have friends who live there or in that area.

Savannah seems to have one of the gayest reputations in the whole South. If I weren't here in Virginia, I might head for Asheville. It has plenty of Wiccans too. Some good ol' downhome southern mountain Wiccans, good folks.

[Captain Amazing]

It's not on the coast, but other than that, what about Atlanta? I've heard good things.

[Sean Factotum]

I would like to recommend the Ghent section of Norfolk, VA. That will keep you close to just about everything you need (either walking or bus), is gay friendly (at least I know a lot of gay men who live in that general vicinity), very close to the Oceanfront (buses do run from Norfolk to Va Beach, but I wouldn't want to rely on them for a daily commute), and if you time hitting the DC area right (see post# 22 above by Agent Foxtrot), you can get to the PA-OH border in about 7 hours.

There are quite a few art/music/cultural things to do in that area of Norfolk.

[picker]

I would recommend Dewey Beach, Delaware. It meets all of your criteria, is on the beach, and is as gay-friendly as they come outside of the Castro.

Plus, no sales tax and they brew Dogfish Head there.

As a second: Madison, WI meets all your criteria but the southern part.

[Miss Purl McKnittington]

I second Madison, WI. There's plenty of stuff going on there, and you'd be close to Milwaukee and Chicago. Public transport = buses, though I've no idea how extensive the bus system is. The winters really aren't that bad. Much better than the Twin Cities or some other one-moose Minnesota town. (Though I'm sure the Twin Cities have at least five moose apiece.) Things start getting depressing around New Years, but perk up in mid-March. And it's not as if there aren't great days in between: sunny, crisp days when everything smells wonderful because it's cold and clean, and you can stretch out in a sunbeam on the living room floor, just feeling good and cozy. When you step out the door, it's a shock, but a good one.

Hmm, can anyone else tell that it was unbelievably hot and humid today? I miss winter.

[Clothahump]

Originally Posted by chatelaine

Thank you all! It's interesting to see how many Philly-supports there are, I'm really going to have to look at Philly more closely.

Also, the Austin nominations surprised me. Nice to see some of my notions dispelled about Texas and the like. The only thing that scares me about Texas is the scorpions and snakes!

There aren't any in the major metro areas unless you go looking for them. I'm a native Houstonian and have never seen a scorpion in 56 years. Snakes we got, but only if you go hiking next to a bayou.

The housing prices here in Houston are really great these days.

[Ellen Cherry]

Have you considered Lexington, Kentucky? It is a college town and, as someone else mentioned, if not known for being gay-friendly, it's at least not anti-gay that I can see. There is a drag show apparently, for instance.

The cost of living is higher here than in other places in Kentucky, but is still much lower than your big northern cities. A lovely four-bedroom home can be purchased for under $200,000, often for much less. It is surrounded by rolling bluegrass horse farms, where famous racehorses can be seen grazing placidly. No major industry polluting industry is here. It's near Ohio, one of your criterion. While not near the beach, per se, you can be there inside a day. My recent vacation to Charleston, S.C., was accomplished with two four-hour driving days. Other family members drove straight through.

We do have a bus system. We had one of the first merged city/county governements in the nation, and have an excellent city waste collection/recycling program. We are Southernish ... our winters are indeed mild (I consider it a good winter if I can go the whole season without wearing gloves). Kentucky is rich in heritage and history, has a great park system and is within driving distance of other interesting cities like Cincinnati, Nashville, Knoxville, St. Louis.

There was a comment that Asheville is FAR from the beach. Ain't so. While not ON the beach, it's within a few hours' drive. And it IS a very nice city. Cost of living is higher there, though, because it is so attractive.