Get Out of Dodge Debate... Morons

The BBQ Pit
1

I’m talking about this thread:

Wherein these depths I find profound levels of Cosmic Stupidity. Let me stop generalizing and be specific:

Loopydude basicaly starts off with the premise that New Orleans is a dangerous place to be because of hurricanes, and we should abandon it. In between, we have a segueway about global warming and how hurricanes are getting a lot stronger.

This kind of shit just pisses me off. The earth is getting warmer? Since fucking when? It seems to me that since the earth started off as a ball of condensing hot magma and gas, that the earth has been getting cooler. You know, entropy?

What exactly are you referring to? The climate is always changing. I have no doubt that we humans are effecting the environmnent, but to what degree and how, I have no idea. Neither do you. You’re just taking a Wag. You want to abandon a city on this pathetic shit. You just happen to understand the whole complex system of weather, geology, and climate change to such an extreme fucking degree that you want us to abandon a whole fucking city on your say so?

The earth will be getting warmer for the next several centuries? Well, thanks Einsteing. As for your “sobering statistic,” it’s fucking useless. What’s your sample size? What’s your time frame? How are you measuring “more powerful,” and does it fall within the range of a standard deviation? What’s your error bar look like?

What about this?

http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/E12.html

Do you want to Fuck Galveston too? Florida? The entire Eastern Seaboard and the Carolinas? BTW, doesn’t look like they’ve gotten more powerful to me. Looks like cycles.

Not to pick just on Loopydude, Rysdad had some cosmically stupid bullshit as well.

[quote]
I do, however, have to question the wisdom of rebuilding a city that is virtually certain to be destroyed.**

Listen, asshole. Every city is virtually certain to be destroyed. That’s what happens to cities. Everything West of the San Andreas fault is vitually certain to fall into the sea. Everything in Florida is bound to get smashed repeatedly. Every mile of coastline is gonna be subject to Tsunamis, Hurricanes, and other acts of God. There will be earthquakes.

The entire Midwest is virtually certain to be totally anhiliated in the near future. Yosemite National park is the site of a Supervolcano that erupts once every 600,000 years or so, blanketing most of the continental US in volcanic ash, killing, everything and rendering it uninhabitable. It’s why the ground is so fertile. When was the last time it erupted? 600,000 years ago. Japanese is virtually certain to be anhiliated. Just about every place on earth has it’s issues. For that reasoning, every person alive is virtually certain to die. Why don’t you just kill them off now? Dipshit.

His answer is to relocate New Orleans.

Well, why don’t you fucking determine the site? I suspect the people in Metairie, or in all the towns and cities that completely line the Mississippi are going to be somewhat pissed that you want to relocate them so we can move N.O. there.

Do you think it’s just empty? Do you have any idea what the cost is to replace an entire city? Can you conceive of the tangential issues?

This smug bullshit just pisses me off. This “fuck them” attitude. Do you have any fucking clue why N.O is located where it is? Do you understand how important it is to this country? Do you know what it means for shipping and oil? The Mississippi is a main artery that feeds a large part of the country. There is a whole culture there my friend. It is a place of historical significance.

I lived there. I have friends there that I don’t know survived. It is a beautiful and wonderful place. It doesn’t deserve to be destroyed. The people down there don’t deserve to be killed, displaced, or to suffer. They were not stupid to live there. We are human beings. We are part of a community. We live wherever we can. We do what we can to survive.

When disaster strikes we don’t need dumbass motherfuckers making ignorant pronouncements from there positions of smug ignorance. It’s a sure bet than when disaster strikes you you’ll be whining about how unfair it is and how you didn’t deserve it… and demanding help.

It’s our fucking country. Our fucking world. It’s a disaster that effects us all. You shut up and you help if you can and you are willing. If you can’t or you won’t then just shut the fuck up and show a little fucking consideration and sympathy for your fellow human beings who have been wiped out, displaced, killed, are suffering, or fighting for their lives.

Sorry to pick on you two, but Jesus Christ, what the hell is wrong with you?

2

Seems to me you have two completely different issues, here: “I don’t believe in serious manmade global warming” and “I think people who want to abandon New Orleans are completely off their rocker.”

Any preferences on which to tackle more strongly?

3

I was incapable of putting my thoughts into words while reading that thread, but you’ve done it for me. Thank you.

4

You should also pit Rysdad because he incorrectly places the Supervolcano in Yosemite rather than Yellowstone.

5

No. Issue #1 is attributing this hurricane to manmade global warming, and acting like even if that were a fact, it would make one bit of difference.

Issue #2 is people who want to abandon New Orleans are completely off their rocker.

Issue #3 overshadows both. It is that in the face of a horrible disaster, loss of life, suffering etc etc of their fellow human beings, certain people seem to have a need to depecrate those suffering as if they were stupid or foolhardy for being hit by an act of God, and contemplate denying or limiting aid.

Chris Mathews was on hardball last night talking to A senator from Mississippi and calling the gulg coast the “redneck riviera.” The place was being destroyed. It’s a disaster are. Fucking Mathews is insulting the guy’s constituents.

Yosemite National Park is the cite of a Supervolcano that erupts once every 600,000 years or so. It’s been 600,000 years since the last eruption. Do we abandon the entire Midwest? Are the people there stupid?

Everything West of the San Andreas fault is destined to fall into the sea. Do we abandon that?

Every single person that lives is destined to die. Is it worthless to help people since they’ll die anyway?

It is just stupid, stupid, stupid, insensitive reasoning.

6

No. That was me. I didn’t quote right.

7

Abandon New Orleans? Because of a little rain? What a bunch of pussies.

8

Well I might as well be pitted because I started this same argument in GD’s a few days ago. Though with some reasonable people reasoned with me I softened my view on everything, except New Orleans.

I cannot see rebuilding New Orleans unless you haul in enough dirt to put it about sea level.

When we had our flooding up here, FEMA and our local government bought out the homes in the flood plain, since then we have not had to worry about homes flooding as they where torn down and parks where put in there place. So the disaster was no where near the total devastation felt by those in this horrible hurricanes path, but the same basic premise.

It is our fucking country and damnit I want my fellow citizens alive. It effects us all, your right, my coworkers and I raised a substantial amount of money for donations, on the little we have.
But if given the option to move the fuck out of dangers way, they refuse, I cannot feel nearly the same sympathy.

9

I vote “I think people who want to abandon New Orleans are completely off their rocker”, with a side of “I don’t give two shits whether FEMA should be abolished or not as long as they’re doing something to help those poor people”.

In other words, Renob, come on down!

Fuck. I remember when the term “United” States actually was supposed to mean something.

10

New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers faces cuts (June 6, 2005)

Wake up and smell the coffee! Without the money needed to secure the homeland, there’s no choice but to abandon it.

11

I left in February. I too have friends whose whereabouts are unknown to me. I’m praying they left, but I have no idea; a lot of them were the “I rode out Betsy, I’m not leaving,” sorts last year for Ivan (it missed us, but I left anyway) and I’m pretty sure they stayed again.

New Orleans is in a sucky place, geographically. But it’s a wonderful city, and seeing it destroyed (however temporarily) is breaking my heart.

12

Silly Scylla, reality just ain’t for you, is it?

Can’t you read, or even comprehend television?

NO sits in a ditch. It’s surrounded by water. The ocean is getting closer due to global warming and the fact that the Mississippi has been straightened thereby eliminating 25 square miles of delta per year (or so I heard on tv today) from less delta-type drainage.

As far as picking the site, I could, but I’d rather let the geologists and engineers make the selection.

And, I’lll try this once again so even you will understand:

The people that left, those that were insured, may not want to come back.

Many of the ones that are there would sure as hell like to leave.

I’ve said all along that the shpping infrastructure is a necessity, but while it’as being restored, better, more storm-surge resistant facilities could be built upstream.

I further proposed in another thread that the people in the Southeast most affected by this and other disasters be given “first dibs” on the jobs necessary to create a whole new life somewhere upriver–safer, newer, and happier.

But what about the poor? Well, what is going to happen to them now? Will they not be poor if NO is rebuilt? At least offer them a chance to move to somewhere they can work.

Oh, and this:

Dear me. Destruction is imminent. Ignoring the ignorant hyperbole, I say again: New Orleans is below sea level. Get it, dummy? That means the level of the ocean is higher that where your feet stand. Even Miami starts off at sea level. At least the water eventually drains away. Not so NO.

Are there other places below sea level? Yep. Do they often get visited by hurricanes? I can’t think of anywhere else. Can you? Why do you think that is? It’s because it’s a dumb place for a city, that’s why!

The technology to create a new city is already well proven. Put it to the people who live there.

Do you know that it would be easier and cheaper just to maintain a river channel farther north than rebuild an entire city every 30 years or so?

And, “historical significance?” Pfeh. No more than hundreds of other cities.

No question about that. I wish them well.

Who’s to say? Did they evacuate a place predicted to be under 30 feet of water?

Popular pablum.

Never. *That would be the epitome of arrogance to expect, and reprehensible to accept if I was aware of the risks beforehand.

Oh, please. How inane.

I do, meathead. In fact, I’m willing to help provide for them a better life somewhere where the death toll is greatly reduced. What do you want to do, sweep out the mud and send them back into the target area for another round of devastation? How utterly nonsensical.

[quote}Sorry to pick on you two, but Jesus Christ, what the hell is wrong with you?[/QUOTE]

You weren’t sorry enough to think for a moment before posting, so the hell with ya.

13

And when the people who live there laugh in your face and get down to rebuilding their homes, will you shut the fuck up, or are we going to be subjected to more of your chickenshit whining?

14

Here is my take on this.

What a bunch of fucking pussies we have become.

Jesus H Christ on a pogo stick people. We have become a nation of scardycats. In fact, we love to be afraid. From the local news, "What common household product could kill you in your sleeep? We’ll find out after these commercials’ to the national news who have create graphic and music themes to go with every disaster, to our leaders with “Willie Horton” “Terror Alert Levels”, to the fucking cable channels with “SuperVolcanos and Asteriod Impacts”, everyone wants to warn us about something and the fact that we put up with all this crap seems to indicate that not only do we tolerate it but we seem to like it.

Stranger Danger! Don’t eat carbs! That guy could be carrying a bomb! What the hell are you doing, eat nothing but carbs or you will die old and alone and broke and unloved if you don’t buy these pants.

Ohhh! There was a big hurricane! There could be another hurricane! We had better abandon that place and all go live in a cave. Well, not a cave, there might be a bear in there so lets live in a tree, but there might be a panther up there so maybe just in the woods but there might be poison ivy or some pointed sticks and you could trip and poke your eye out so let us live in a swamp but that could flood and so we’ll live in a hi-rise but the terrorists could blow it up but we go go and live in the middle of a big field so we can see anything coming for miles.

If it’s not that is the way people seem to think that ‘free market rules’ apply to everything. New Orleans does offer some good things and some drawbacks. So we’ll just let the market decide if the city will continue and leave the government out of it. After all the government never did nothing for me so I don’t see why my money should go clean up a street corner where prostitutes will sell drugs to tourists which I would be one of them if my taxes weren’t so gosh darn high.

Pussies.

15

If they were told that there that there would be no flood insurance, and that there are jobs available elsewhere, but they still chose to live there, well then I’d be the one doing the laughing.

And, I’m not whining, piss ant. I’m offering alternatives. That’s more than you and that moron Scylla have done.

16

Some may call this cross-posting, but fuck it. I have no idea how they can ensure the safety of the city, but a world without Congo Square, Preservation Hall, Commander’s Palace, and Cafe du Monde is no kind of world in which to live.

17

Yeah, I bet you would. Aren’t you a peach.

Yeah, but the thing is… your alternatives are really, really, really stupid. The sort of stupid that defies debate, because if you think your idea is good, then there’s no point or possibility of reasoning with you. So, when you get down to it, telling you to shut the fuck up is far more constructive than any of your “ideas” about what should be done with New Orleans. Thank God you’re not representative of the species, otherwise we’d all still be living in caves.

18

Fuck you Rysdad. I’m not even going to respond to your ignorant shit. Just fuck you.

19

So what of my alternative? I am genuinely interested in knowing why we shouldn’t fill the “bowl” in with dirt before rebuilding New Orleans? I know it would cost billions, but it would surely pay for itself over time. Hell the Historic buildings can be lifted and set on top the dirt above sea level, no harm done.

20

I don’t have a problem with doing whatever is feasible to protect the city from future disasters. I don’t know if you’re idea is feasible or not. I kinda think not, but I don’t have the expertise to say one way or the other. But at least you aren’t advocating pulling up stakes and running like a coward.