The Straight Dope

Go Back   Straight Dope Message Board > Main > Cafe Society

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-26-2005, 08:28 PM
Blalron Blalron is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2001
What was the distance from The Shire to Mordor (LOTR)?

Is there anyone that could give an estimate, if possible, of

(1) The distance from Hobbiton to Mount Doom, as the crow flies.
(2) The distance that Frodo actually journeyed, which was probably in a somewhat roundabout way.
(3) The time it took from the start of the journey to the end?
Reply With Quote
Advertisements  
  #2  
Old 09-26-2005, 08:49 PM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Slithering on the hull
Posts: 22,286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blalron
Is there anyone that could give an estimate, if possible, of

(1) The distance from Hobbiton to Mount Doom, as the crow flies.
(2) The distance that Frodo actually journeyed, which was probably in a somewhat roundabout way.
(3) The time it took from the start of the journey to the end?
Drawing from Karen Wynn Fonstad's Atlas of Middle-Earth (which draws heavily on JRRT's copious details about times and distances, we get the following:
1) About 1100 miles
2) 1560 miles or so
3) Frodo left Hobbiton on September 23rd, and arrived at the Cracks of doom on March 25th. Per the Shire Calendar.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-27-2005, 01:08 PM
Blalron Blalron is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2001
Wow, that was more than I expected. Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-27-2005, 02:11 PM
well he's back well he's back is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
I think you'll enjoy this take on the answer to your question:
http://www.ooblick.com/text/tomordor/
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-27-2005, 02:14 PM
Exgineer Exgineer is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan
3) Frodo left Hobbiton on September 23rd, and arrived at the Cracks of doom on March 25th. Per the Shire Calendar.
Not enough information.

Was it a leap year?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-27-2005, 02:43 PM
Blalron Blalron is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exgineer
Not enough information.

Was it a leap year?
Hmm... well while we're being sticklers for detail, my calculations say that Frodo averaged 8.6 miles per day. Of course, there were many times that he stopped and rested. Like in Rivendell and Lothlorien, but I'm not certain how long he stayed in Lothlorien (my reading of the book says they lost track of time there due to the influence of Galadriel's elven ring). I wonder how many travel days there were compared to rest days?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-27-2005, 03:38 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Land of Cleves
Posts: 54,548
Leap year is irrelevant, since the Shire calendar puts leap-day in the summer. And it's implied that they stayed in Lothlorien for a month (or some whole number of months, but I think probably just one). Rivendell I think we can call two weeks: About ten days for Frodo's recovery, then the Council, then another couple of days to organize and set out.
__________________
Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
--As You Like It, III:ii:328
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-27-2005, 05:22 PM
DMark DMark is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blalron
Is there anyone that could give an estimate, if possible, of

(1) The distance from Hobbiton to Mount Doom, as the crow flies.
(2) The distance that Frodo actually journeyed, which was probably in a somewhat roundabout way.
(3) The time it took from the start of the journey to the end?

Shouldn't that be as the Nazgūl fly?

Wonder if they got frequent eagle miles back then?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-27-2005, 05:55 PM
kaylasdad99 kaylasdad99 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 20,916
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos
Leap year is irrelevant, since the Shire calendar puts leap-day in the summer. And it's implied that they stayed in Lothlorien for a month (or some whole number of months, but I think probably just one). Rivendell I think we can call two weeks: About ten days for Frodo's recovery, then the Council, then another couple of days to organize and set out.
I don't have my copy of the Appendices at hand, but don't they actually give the dates of the various departures (from Rivendell, and Lothlorien)?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-27-2005, 06:07 PM
The Hook The Hook is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaylasdad99
I don't have my copy of the Appendices at hand, but don't they actually give the dates of the various departures (from Rivendell, and Lothlorien)?
October 24

Frodo recovers and wakes. Boromir arrives in Rivendell at night.

October 25

Council of Elrond

December 25

The Company of the Ring leaves Rivendell at dusk.

January 17

The Company comes to Caras Galadon at evening.

February 16

Farewell to Lorien. Gollum in holding on the west bank observes the departure.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-27-2005, 06:25 PM
Blalron Blalron is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMark
Shouldn't that be as the Nazgūl fly?
Actually, now that I think about it, I'm curious about that. Did the winged creatures that the Nazgūl flew have a name? Why didn't the Nazgul just bring them to the Shire in the first place instead of their dark horses?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-27-2005, 06:35 PM
Queen Bruin Queen Bruin is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMark
Shouldn't that be as the Nazgūl fly?
Nooo it should be as the Crebain fly.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-27-2005, 06:58 PM
Vlad/Igor Vlad/Igor is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan
Drawing from Karen Wynn Fonstad's Atlas of Middle-Earth
See, what's scary about this is Qadgop answered the OP 21 minutes after it was posted. Not taking into account that he happened on the thread just after it was posted, his rapid answer suggests that he has LOTR references sandwiched between Gray's Anatomy and the PDR 2005, 58th Ed. It's a shame that Medcins Sans Frontiers didn't have a group put together to help out with casualties from the battles. Qadgop would have been perfect for the assignment and in 7th heaven.

Vlad/Igor
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-27-2005, 07:20 PM
squeegee squeegee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Gilroy CA
Posts: 8,205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blalron
Did the winged creatures that the Nazgūl flew have a name?
Fell Beasts, IIRC.

Quote:
Why didn't the Nazgul just bring them to the Shire in the first place instead of their dark horses?
Apparently the Beasts were in the shop being serviced at the time. According to the book, there was a raid in Rohan, and the Orcs stole black horses, which I assume were the same horses that the Riders later rode. I guess one might assume that the Riders were in great haste and didn't have time to gas up the Lear-beasts, so they raided a stable and galloped off to Hobbiton.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-27-2005, 07:23 PM
Silentgoldfish Silentgoldfish is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad/Igor
See, what's scary about this is Qadgop answered the OP 21 minutes after it was posted. Not taking into account that he happened on the thread just after it was posted, his rapid answer suggests that he has LOTR references sandwiched between Gray's Anatomy and the PDR 2005, 58th Ed. It's a shame that Medcins Sans Frontiers didn't have a group put together to help out with casualties from the battles. Qadgop would have been perfect for the assignment and in 7th heaven.

Vlad/Igor
I just got the image of him grabbing the wrong book at work.

"Give me athelas, stat!"
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-27-2005, 07:26 PM
squeegee squeegee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Gilroy CA
Posts: 8,205
A more serious reply, but probably not a better answer:

Apparently earlier in the books, Sauron was still operating secretly, so the Wraiths went as black horsemen.

Shortly after Helm's Deep, a winged Nazgul flies overhead, and Gandalf exclaims something like "The Nazgul have come West of the River! War is upon us!" So, apparently a Winged Nazgul was a Great Portent or something, where 9 evil Black Riders was something you saw every day.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-27-2005, 08:27 PM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Slithering on the hull
Posts: 22,286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blalron
Hmm... well while we're being sticklers for detail, my calculations say that Frodo averaged 8.6 miles per day. Of course, there were many times that he stopped and rested. Like in Rivendell and Lothlorien, but I'm not certain how long he stayed in Lothlorien (my reading of the book says they lost track of time there due to the influence of Galadriel's elven ring). I wonder how many travel days there were compared to rest days?
Get your hands on the Atlas of Middle Earth. It breaks down just how far the travelers went each day! Fortunately JRRT made notes about how long an "ent-stride" was, so folks have been able to estimate how far Treebeard carried Merry and Pippin.

I've got the Atlas right here, but I'm not gonna count up all the travel vs. rest days for the whole fellowship. Took me long enough to add up the miles for you!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-27-2005, 08:30 PM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Slithering on the hull
Posts: 22,286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad/Igor
his rapid answer suggests that he has LOTR references sandwiched between Gray's Anatomy and the PDR 2005, 58th Ed.
Vlad/Igor
Don't be silly. My LOTR reference books are much more readily available than Gray's Anatomy or the PDR. First things first!

(Actually the current PDR is too damn bulky to pick up and use anymore. I get my drug data online. Anatomy too.)
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-27-2005, 08:45 PM
What Exit? What Exit? is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Central NJ (near Bree)
Posts: 25,595
Quote:
Originally Posted by well he's back
I think you'll enjoy this take on the answer to your question:
http://www.ooblick.com/text/tomordor/

I did enjoy very much, that you.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-27-2005, 11:01 PM
Lissla Lissar Lissla Lissar is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Quote:
About ten days for Frodo's recovery, then the Council, then another couple of days to organize and set out.
I'm a bit late, but after the council, they sent out scouts, including Aragorn (I think) and the sons of Elrond. They had at least a month before the scouts returned.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-28-2005, 03:44 AM
Crowbar of Irony +3 Crowbar of Irony +3 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The Tropics, not in US
Posts: 3,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan
Drawing from Karen Wynn Fonstad's Atlas of Middle-Earth (which draws heavily on JRRT's copious details about times and distances, we get the following:
1) About 1100 miles
In perceptive of our world, how far would that be? Beijing to New York, for instance?
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-28-2005, 04:07 AM
Engywook Engywook is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtraKun
In perceptive of our world, how far would that be? Beijing to New York, for instance?
1100 miles is more like New York to St Louis.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-28-2005, 08:58 AM
asterion asterion is offline
2012 SDMB NFL Salary Cap Champ
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Guilderland, NY
Posts: 9,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Engywook
1100 miles is more like New York to St Louis.
But which end is Mordor?

My answer was going to be, oh about a thousand pages.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-28-2005, 10:20 AM
Lissla Lissar Lissla Lissar is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
The google ads say 'Buy your Frodo has failed stickers! Low price!'
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-28-2005, 10:58 AM
PapSett PapSett is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2005
*snark* Now one of the Google ads says "Planning A Trip?"?

Yeah... I'd like a one-way ticket to Mordor , please, and could I get a lay-over in Rivendell? (Those Elves know how to PARTY !)
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-28-2005, 11:48 AM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
SDSAB
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: At the Diogenes Club
Posts: 47,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by well he's back
I think you'll enjoy this take on the answer to your question:
http://www.ooblick.com/text/tomordor/
That was funny, but didn't look entirely accurate. Frodo never got that close to Minas Tirith, for instance.... unless I'm missing the joke, and the website shows the route he'd PLANNED when he was sitting in front of his PC at Bag End, and not the route he actually TOOK (thanks to Boromir's Ring-grab and other complications).
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-28-2005, 12:38 PM
Zsofia Zsofia is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Well, it also doesn't mention the detour on the route through Moria, but that's about par for the course for internet trip planning.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@chicagoreader.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Publishers - interested in subscribing to the Straight Dope?
Write to: sdsubscriptions@chicagoreader.com.

Copyright © 2013 Sun-Times Media, LLC.