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Scott McClellan Says Helen Thomas Opposes 'War on Terrorism'
From Editor & Publisher:
Really, I thought we moved past this. Have we gone really back to trying to cow journalists by accusing them of being unpatriotic? As evidenced by Terry Morgan's follow up, it looks like the press is no longer afeared of being again' us. |
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#2
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It sure is entertaining watching the White House implode. These guys couldn't organize a two float parade. Browbeating Helen Thomas isn't going to win any friends.
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#3
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I'm opposed to the war on terrorism, in as much as it appears to be overseen by a squad of psychotic howler monkeys.
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#4
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It is the view of the administration that Iraq is part of "The War on Terror."
Whether you agree or not is irrelevant; it's their terminology and they have a right to define thier own terms. They have repeatedly made it clear how they see the War in Iraq as addressing the issue of terrorism. Stomping one's feet and screaming that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 simply shows that one fails to grasp the claim the other person is making. "The broader war on terrorism" (note the modifier) includes Iraq; Helen Thomas opposes that, just as I oppose the "War on Drugs" as an asinine idea. I don't worry that people will infer that I support giving children crack, and I don't think she should worry that people will infer that she supports terrorism. |
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Then the administration needs glasses. |
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#7
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I wager it has been some time since Helen Thomas stomped her feet and I rather doubt she did this time either. The White House says they believe Iraq is part of The War Against Terror. They can say that but it doesn't make it true. Helen simply called them on a lie and he reacted like a second grader.
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#8
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The White House has asserted that folks who question the war in Iraq are monkey fuckers. Whether you agree or not is irrelevant; it's their terminology and they have a right to define thier own terms.
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#11
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Wish we had some! Can't wait! |
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#12
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For a long time I didn't understand why Helen Thomas was tolerated by the Bush administration. Why don't they just refuse to answer her questions? Why not simply kick her out of the white house press pool and be done with her?
I've come to hold a theory on this. Having her ask questions of a Republican administration is akin to having Ann Coulter ask questions of a Democratic one. She's outright hostile and rude towards them. They obviously know this, yet they keep her around. I think it's because they feel she helps them. She spits out a question that's obviously baited and filled with hatred that another more reasonable reporter might have asked in a more sensible way. No reasonable, moderate viewer would ever side with her. She makes her side look bad. A reporter asking simliar questions with similar intent would actually be much more effective than her if he just behaved properly. It's for this reason that I think they keep her around. Even in the transcript. She's being rude and argumentative with her interuptions of McClellan, yet he remains polite and civil to her. Having her on the attack makes him look good. She adds value for the administration in the same way that Al Sharpton added value to Kerry's run for the presidency. Oh, and specifically regarding the OP: Thomas is against the war on terror and admits it in the article, so I hardly see what the fuss is to mention it. |
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#13
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I can't get the link to work-- I get a "no data" message. Is there another link to the story?
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#14
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Works fine here, John. Ah, well, the words in the press conference are all public domain (I assume), so here's a cut'n'paste job:
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#15
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So, over the past few years we've moved from a lie being an an untruth spoken when it is known to be such, to an incorrect statement that is later proved to be false, and now, to a non statement that no one ever said. Now I understand what they mean by a progressive agenda. |
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#16
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The president, IMO, would be entirely correct to say that I oppose "Healing America." Yes, there is a slight unfairness in the use of the language, in the way it makes it sound like I favor keeping America sick; but that's politics. It's the same as "pro-choice," "pro-life" and all the rest. Or, for that matter, claiming that only those with a specific political affiliation are "reality-based." The admin has chosen to call their foreign policy a "War on Terror" -- the term is often put in capitals or quotes -- and Helen Thomas opposes it. |
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#17
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The thing that gets me - and why I was moved to post a Pit OP - is that I thought we were through with this whole "if you dare question us, then you're with the terrorists" bullshit.
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#19
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It's funny that some of you guys still don't get this. |
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#20
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Bush needs to get rid of Scotty. That guy reminds me of the dumb guy we all had in class who was always trying to bullshit his way thru things. He just isn't very bright, and it show. |
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#21
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More like "don't swallow it." Iraq is not part of the war on terror and never was. 9/11 was a horrible thing, but it sure helped sell the load of goods that Iraq=terrorists. How I'm not sure. I guess some people will believe anything if you repeat it often enough.
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#22
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#23
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This is like saying the US wasn't related to the second world war until we declared war on Germany and Japan. Technically, it's true. But, it's an empty and meaningless statement because we certainly were involved after that so it's moot what the situation was before. |
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#24
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None of it is really fair or honest, but it's the way the game is played by both parties. This is an utterly unremarkable incident. |
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#25
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Scotty didn't say Helen was against the "War on TerrorTM". He said "I'm sure you're opposed to the broader war on terrorism". Is this a copywrited catch phrase for the administration as well? Or a clear slam against Helen?
It's petty fucking play with words that this administration keeps on pulling. |
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#26
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It's not a question of nuance. Claiming that the invasion of Iraq had anything to do with eradicating terrorism is just a flat lie, It's factually false- especially when the implication is made that iraq had anything to do with 9/11. Aggravating the problem of Islamic terrorism is not the same thing as fighting it.
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#27
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Diogenes and Maureen: I know you guys don't like the war in Iraq. That's fine. We can disagree about such things. However, it just sounds crazy to be in denial about the very existance of it.
It's simply a fact that the US under the current administration is engaging in a global war against terrorism, and that this effort is focused around our military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. To deny this just makes you look like loons. |
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#28
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Makes me yearn for the good old days when the left knew what a lie was but claimed it didn't matter when a perjurious statement was about sex. |
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#29
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To whom? People who unquestioningly swallow everything that comes out of the mouth of a coke head who believes God talks to him? I'm willing to take that risk.
The fact of the matter is, our involvement in Iraq is increasing terrorist activity. But, hey. Job security for the lucky military, huh? |
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#30
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Just as, in my example above, some might argue that affirmative action addresses the "root causes" of a race riot, so this admin has argued that regime change in the Middle East addressses the root causes of terrorism. It's fine to disagree; but it's pathetic to act as if you don't even comprehend the opposing argument and are intellectually incapable of moving the discussion beyond the differing presuppositions. |
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#33
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As with "the media is controlled by liberal elites," "the GOP is the party of fiscal responsibility," and "George W. Bush is an intelligent and competent leader," there is no bullshit line that the right won't keep touting even long after it's been proven as accurate as Colin Powell's UN presentation. |
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#36
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What the meaning of "is" is depends on the party affiliation of who's saying it, huh? "Character matters" indeed. |
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#37
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As regards Helen Thomas, she is only demonstrably against the war on terror insofar as she opposes its nonsensical expansion into Iraq. Of course, that's not the implication and was never meant to be. The term 'Broader war on terrorism' is deliberately vague, suggesting that Thomas is opposed to any and all expansion of the war on terror irrespective of the reasons given for doing so. It was a shitty, sleazy thing to say. |
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#38
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And before you paint me as a leftist, I supported Bush and gave him the benefit of the doubt for 4 years. On the WMD thing, on the way the war was run, etc. However, it's become abundtly clear to me that Bush has no frakken idea what he's doing over there and doesn't seem to care either. Anyone who questions that is accused of being unpatriotic or aiding the terrorists. And it sickens me.
__________________
"I've worked my way up from nothing to a state of extreme poverty" -Groucho Marx |
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#39
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Be that as it may, "against the war in Iraq" /= "against the war on terror." That's not even a rhetorical ploy at this point, it's a clumsy attempt at Two-Concept Monty. |
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Btw, good comment Mace. I was about to say "it is now", but you beat me to the punch. |
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#43
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Oh, come on now. The White House spokesman said Helen Thomas is opposed to the broader war on terrorism. He didn't say that she supports Osama bin Laden, he didn't say she hates America, he didn't say she's a nutjob reporter far past her prime. Helen Thomas has been asking tough questions of the White House -- there's some questions that are probably more on the lines of harassment of a White House flak than of trying to pry news out of him -- and good on her.
But the idea that a spinmeister in Washington DC can't ever lay gloves on a reporter in a little verbal repartee is pretty fucking stupid. As far as politics goes, this barb doesn't even rate a bloody nose. In other news, various press secretaries in the White House have been openly making fun of nutjob journalist Les Kinsolving for many years, and yet there's no pit threads about that "unfair" treatment of another journalist. For the record, I view the war on terrorism as being the war on Al Qaeda. If the Administration wants to say that the "broader war on terrorism" includes things like the war in Iraq; unprovoked, preventive war; or interrogation techniques that cross the line into torture, then sign me up right below Helen Thomas on those that oppose the broader war on terrorism. It seems quite evident to me that the phrase "broader war on terrorism" as Scott McClellan used it encompasses all of these damned fool things that have nothing to do with actually making our country safer, and I'll damned well be proud of wearing that opposition on my sleeve. |
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And not that it matters, I have complained to congressmern—and The White House—about Bush (who I am no fan of and never voted for). Just not about imaginary lies. You might want to read furt's posts in this thread over again. He has it exactly right. It is completely possible to be against the war, hate Bush, and for his posts to be 100% correct. Can you not see that? Seriously. |
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#45
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Why do the majority of Americans hate America? |
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#46
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"It is the view of the Catholic Church that homosexual behavior is sinful" Do I smell cows? Is there a farm nearby? |
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#47
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You can't even think of one lie? There are so many to choose from the hard part is starting. Read 'n' learn. A broader list. Horse, meet water. This is good, too, but this is more succinct.
This is all news to you? What planet have you been living on? Get a brain, moran. |
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#49
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Oh, my. Where to start? Do you want them by term, alphabetically, or in order of importance?
1. We never had any proof that Saddam had WMD. That was a lie. The "yellow cake uranium letter" was a fabrication. Cheney lied to congress. Bush lied the country. 2. Saddam didn't have WMD. No. He really, really didn't. He wasn't hiding them in milk factories, and to date we have found precisely 6 rusted shell casings that may, at one time, have contained biological weapons that we sold him. 3. Bush never gave a good god damn about OBL. No, really. He doesn't. He even came out and said so after we were committed to that drain called Afghanistan. Christ, do you honestly think the Soviet Union couldn't have spent all their money and time and resources there if they really wanted to? They just weren't that stupid. 4. He lied to the country about nailling the assholes responsible for 9/11. He hasn't run them to the ground, and I for one want them nailed. It was one of the few things I supported his silly ass on. 5. He lied when he said that he would fire anyone who would give up a government operative in the field. 6. He lied about his service record. ....really, how long have you got? |
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