The British and Double Faucet Taps

[Rodgers01]

This one drives me crazy. Why oh why do the British almost always insist on having separate taps for hot and cold water in their bathroom sinks? Your hands either end up burning or freezing. I'm told that you're supposed to mix the water in the sink in order to get warm water, but very often there's not even a stopper available. Even bathroom sinks in new buildings in the UK keep this tradition. And yet they clearly are familiar with the idea of having only one faucet, since most of their kitchen sinks that I've seen have only one. So why the two taps in the bathroom? Is there any possible practical reason for it?

[John F]

Originally Posted by Rodgers01

Is there any possible practical reason for it?

There used to be but the advent of pressure balancing, thermostatic controls, and "non mixing" cartridges have resolved those issues.

They must just like it that way.

[cowgirl]

They are bathroom masochists. It goes along with their bizarre showers which, if present at all, are severely lacking in water pressure (an American friend described the shower as 'mist'), often consist of a 2' hose and sprinkler attached to the tap (so yes, you have to sit down for your mist-ening), and at other times are electric. (I know this might have more to do with old houses and less water availability than with masochism, but still.)

I welcome an alternative to the masochist theory. The two-tap question was at the forefront of my mind for the entire time I lived there (an experience that seems to be common to any North American who spends time there) and could not get a satisfactory answer.

[fortytwo]

On preview I decided to delete my civil reply and just let the usual Brit bashing of our quaint bathroom habits carry on without me.

[breit]

they probably don't throw out the old ones as fast as we do

[ouryL]

The British bathe?

[Fridgemagnet]

Originally Posted by breit

they probably don't throw out the old ones as fast as we do

We do, but only because they're last years colour. Only colours and style changes, never the bathroom technology. I don't know about the US, but the fixtures and fittings on most of continental Europes bathrooms are far superior to their British equivalents.

Decent mixer taps are still quite expensive in the UK, which is a shame as they're quite effective and reliable now. We've had high-spout mixer taps in the kitchen for decades now, but they invariably have separate hot/cold taps. Basic mixer taps aren't popular because they're less reliable, and sometimes you get a few cc of scalding hot water that's purged out before the cold water you actually want arrives.

And with some designs getting the average water temperature you desire involves a split stream of water, one side scalding hot, one side icy cold. OK for filling a sink, not so good for rinsing hands.

For the record, I've got a 7kW electric shower, with a cold water feed straight from the pressurised mains. It's OK in the summer, but getting any decent heat in the winter when the input water is icy cold means reducing the flow rate to a dribble. When the heater can burns out I shall replace it with a 10kW jobbie, but they don't get much bigger than that. Pump-driven thermostatic power showers that draw from a hot water reserve are available in the UK, but are expensive. A shame, because they're really effective and cheap to run.

Rather quaintly, most houses in the Uk draw their non-potable water from a big tank in the attic. This is to achieve a constant water pressure from the cold taps, even though the mains water pressure may vary considerably. This technique isn't really required today as water supples are more reliable, and new build houses can get away without a cold water tank.

[John F]

Originally Posted by Fridgemagnet

Decent mixer taps are still quite expensive in the UK, which is a shame as they're quite effective and reliable now.

Shhhhhh..... Big Box stores have BIG ears.

Orange Box may be in your future.

[cowgirl]

Originally Posted by Vetch

On preview I decided to delete my civil reply and just let the usual Brit bashing of our quaint bathroom habits carry on without me.

Oh, I don't think they're quaint, I hope you don't take my bashing the wrong way.

I've found, upon reflection, that most of your "quaint" habits are really quite sensible, and only quaint from the point of view of gluttonous North America. For instance, things that I once questioned - followed by a sensible answer:

- the apparent lack of things like clothes dryers, dishwashers (and lower frequency of laundry-doing) - because y'all are much more sensible in your use of electricity/water
- habits like covering your couch with a throw - throws are way easier to clean than couches, and also make your couch last longer
- using a washing-up bucket when doing dishes - saves water
- impractical shower arrangements - the voluminous, powerful showers I have been trained to crave are massive devourers of water
- small fridges (most of the fridges I saw in British homes would be considered 'bar' or 'dorm' fridges here) - saves energy, and y'all aren't as accustomed to keeping huge quantities of groceries around

See, after all this reflection, I still can't come up with a reason for the lack of mixer taps, except that they may be more expensive/less available. But this begs the question (I think ... I've never been clear about how to use that turn of phrase) - we're back to where we started - why are they more expensive/less available?

And, a question of more immediate practicality - how do you wash if there's no stopper and no mixer tap? Just grit your teeth and bear the freezing or hotness? Is there a trick you don't tell foreigners?

[GorillaMan]

Originally Posted by cowgirl

And, a question of more immediate practicality - how do you wash if there's no stopper and no mixer tap? Just grit your teeth and bear the freezing or hotness?

Yep. It's just cold water - only wimps couldn't cope with that 'hardship'.


Some of the other 'habits' you list are born of necessity - small fridges because of small kitchens, small washing machines because the only place to put them is in the kitchen, and so on. American-sized fridges and everything else you mention are common enough, in houses big enough to hold them.

[Duckster]

<hijack=slight>
Can't wait for a GQ about that exquisite fine English cuisine ...
</hijack>

[Finagle]

Originally Posted by GorillaMan

Yep. It's just cold water - only wimps couldn't cope with that 'hardship'.

Yep. Come to my climate some January morning and feel free to shave with just cold water.

[Myglaren]

One of the problems with mixer taps is with building/plumbing regulations. The loft stored, cold water header tank is a dying breed now but is the only legal way to supply mixer taps.
More often than not, the pressure differential makes this an impractica proposition.

I have 'mixer' taps for the kitchen, bath and washbasin, that are actually two taps 'twinned' with the water only 'mixing' Hah, where it emerges from the tap. Not a satisfactory solution, unless you run the water into the bowl (yes, I do have plugs, thankyou) otherwise you end up with one hand full of scalding hot water and the other full of freezing cold.

The theory behind this is that, should the mains water pressure fall to zero or lower, used or stored water wil not be then drawn into the main.

Huge load of bollocks but that is British building regs. A non-return valve would be so much simpler - but then - that would be too simple.

[MyNameIsEarl]

Originally Posted by Fridgemagnet

Basic mixer taps aren't popular because they're less reliable, and sometimes you get a few cc of scalding hot water that's purged out before the cold water you actually want arrives.

Which is why we here in North America turn the cold water on first. Call me silly, but doesn't it make more sense to start with cold water and add enough hot water to make it "warm enough" rather than starting with hot water and adding enough cold water to make it "cool enough"?

[CynicalGabe]

I live in the US, and I have never had a single-handled faucet in the bathroom of any place I've lived.

[John F]

Originally Posted by CynicalGabe

I live in the US, and I have never had a single-handled faucet in the bathroom of any place I've lived.

Unless you have always lived in 100+ year old houses I doubt you have separate taps for hot and cold on your bathroom sink in the US.

You may have a two handled faucet but it's just one faucet right?

[Perderabo]

Originally Posted by cowgirl

I've found, upon reflection, that most of your "quaint" habits are really quite sensible, and only quaint from the point of view of gluttonous North America. For instance, things that I once questioned - followed by a sensible answer

See, after all this reflection, I still can't come up with a reason for the lack of mixer taps, except that they may be more expensive/less available. But this begs the question (I think ... I've never been clear about how to use that turn of phrase) - we're back to where we started - why are they more expensive/less available?

Wow! You were so close. But you didn't kick the ball over the goal line.

I have always had "mixer taps" in every sink that I have ever used. But I rarely derive any benefit from them. It can take a minute or so for hot water to arrive. As a true American, the waste of the water doesn't bother me at all. But no way am I going to spend that minute! I want my fucking water... NOW! So I just turn the facet on and take whatever water happens to tumble out. I don't find this agonizing at all. I'm just washing my hands, not taking a shower. "grit your teeth and bear the freezing"... you're kidding .. right?

[GorillaMan]

Originally Posted by Finagle

Yep. Come to my climate some January morning and feel free to shave with just cold water.

If you're shaving, you use hot water. That's what I do, every (other) morning. Why on earth would you add cold water for this purpose? (I'm assuming a porcelain basin, which reduces the temperature of any liquid water to the point where it won't cause injury)

[John F]

Originally Posted by Perderabo

It can take a minute or so for hot water to arrive. As a true American, the waste of the water doesn't bother me at all. But no way am I going to spend that minute! I want my fucking water... NOW!

You are an example of true resilience my friend.

I also want my water now AND I want it to to be either hot or piping hot on demand depending on my needs. Say I just want to wash my hands this is the ticket. If I desire some tea or Top Ramen presto

[robcaro]

When I was growing up in South Dakota, we had bathroom sink with two faucets and had to mix the water in the sink with a stopper to hold the water in. Since it was all we knew about, it wasn't bad at all. Now, I am used to a two faucet mixer which is common here in Colombia.

[TheLoadedDog]

The place I live in now has separate hot and cold taps. Sure, it sucks, but I live with it. If I'm washing my face properly or shaving, then I'm going to fill the sink anyway. If I'm just quickly washing my hands, then I turn on the hot tap only. I soap up as the cold water runs through the pipes (three or four seconds), then as it gets warm I rinse it off, and usually manage to pull my hands out just in the nick of time. If I run over time, then I finish off with the cold tap. Of course, the climate here allows for cold water washing if necessary. In fact, I've been told that studies have shown you get your hands cleaner under cold water: the warm temperature that we humans like and that feels like it is doing the most in the way of cleaning, actually provides the optimum temperature for bacteria on your hands to get down and party. To remove most of the germs, you'd need scalding hot water. So I hear, anyway. In public restrooms with double taps, I use the cold one only, as it's one fewer e-coli laden piece of equipment to have to touch.

[calm kiwi]

Originally Posted by cowgirl

d - why are they more expensive/less available?

And, a question of more immediate practicality - how do you wash if there's no stopper and no mixer tap? Just grit your teeth and bear the freezing or hotness? Is there a trick you don't tell foreigners?

You turn on both taps, soap up quickly and dabble between the two. The hot tap is warm first, then it becomes HOT. You learn to deftly flick your hands between the hot and cold simulating warm.

Yes it is sucky but you cope.

[Mangetout]

Until recently, market inertia; there were originally good reasons to keep the hot and cold plumbing completely separate, but bathroom plumbing isn't something that people change particularly often and when they do change it, they will most likely be replacing something that is broken with something that fits in the same place; this means that manufacturers are only really geared up to produce separate taps, meaning that brand new installations aren't so likely to have a wide choice of mixer taps.

This has changed fairly recently, with the advent of home makeover shows and a generally higher emphasis on DIY.

Personally, I prefer separate taps. Dunno why, I just like it that way.

[Mangetout]

It's also probably worth mentioning a general difference in national psyche which can only be adequately communicated by grossly exaggerating it, so here goes:

American: "Dammit, I have the right to water mixed to precisely the temperature I want; if you can't give me water at the temperature I demand, I'll fire you and find someone who can"

British: "Chin up old chap; it's the best we can expect, let's not make a fuss, eh, old bean? Just remember, it was even worse during the war. Endurance is good for you"

As I say, these are gross caricatures, but I maintain that there is a core of truth; Americans demand service, Brits will most likely suffer in silence (or at best complain, but to the wrong person).

[Pushkin]

Originally Posted by Fridgemagnet

And with some designs getting the average water temperature you desire involves a split stream of water, one side scalding hot, one side icy cold. OK for filling a sink, not so good for rinsing hands

We have those in our house, they really are worse than two taps. You put your hand under them thinking its cold but with a strange feeling that its actually burning hot. Both feelings are correct...

[Malacandra]

Originally Posted by GorillaMan

If you're shaving, you use hot water. That's what I do, every (other) morning. Why on earth would you add cold water for this purpose? (I'm assuming a porcelain basin, which reduces the temperature of any liquid water to the point where it won't cause injury)

My porcelain basin doesn't. So my basin-filling procedure runs roughly as follows:

- Start the hot tap running and let the cold water in the pipe run down the drain, estimating when to put the tap in (shortly before the hot water arrives)
- Let the hot mix with the small amount of cold now in the basin
- Shut off the hot when there is roughly enough water to wash and shave with
- Test the temperature and add cold as necessary.

Bath-filling entails a larger amount of water and so begins with the plug in and the hot tap running, phasing in the cold tap as the water from the hot tap comes up to temperature. Try to get the temperature balanced during filling and, ideally, shut both taps off at the same time, for a minimum-time fill.

(Note that "tap" is English for "faucet" and, quoting another Mike Harding routine, "...so I did force it, and it came off the wall")

There are plenty of mixer taps in this country, but in general we look with mild suspicion on over-engineered solutions.

[CBCD]

Originally Posted by Mangetout

It's also probably worth mentioning a general difference in national psyche which can only be adequately communicated by grossly exaggerating it, so here goes:

American: "Dammit, I have the right to water mixed to precisely the temperature I want; if you can't give me water at the temperature I demand, I'll fire you and find someone who can"

British: "Chin up old chap; it's the best we can expect, let's not make a fuss, eh, old bean? Just remember, it was even worse during the war. Endurance is good for you"

As I say, these are gross caricatures, but I maintain that there is a core of truth; Americans demand service, Brits will most likely suffer in silence (or at best complain, but to the wrong person).

You're damn right! I say my ancestors swam across the Atlantic to America precisely so we could have hot water, big refrigerators, and central heating. That's why we came to America!

[Mk VII]

I hate those damn mixer taps. I hate the way you have to wait for the mass of metal to heat up until reasonably hot water starts emerging from it. I hate the way you draw a glass of cold water and find it's luke-warm because the mass of metal is still hot from the hot water. I hate the separate streams of hot and cold which aren't damned-well mixed at all. I hate the way you can't attach a hose connection to it that doesn't pop off after 20 seconds. I've successfully kept them out of the new bathroom. And as soon as we get a new kitchen I'm going to stipulate 'no damn mixer taps'.

[Mangetout]

No, mixer taps are just better, period. Why do you hate America?

[Shagnasty]

May I do a partial hijack?

Why thank you!

Why do British people have an aversion to closets in their houses? I have heard that it is because many of the houses are old (my house was built in 1760 and it has two large closets per room so I don't buy it). I have also heard that British people only like to have a few high quality things so they don't need a lot of space to put things.

My sister-in-law just got back from grad school in England and she tells me that people stuff things all over to make up for the lack of closet space. She also tells me that her room was in a very new house and it didn't have closet space. They were just too shortsighted and cheap to build them with the house.

[Mk VII]

many new house designs are cheap [not in cash terms] and shabby ones on as small an area as possible, because land is so expensive and they're not making any more of it. Land, and space to spread out, have always been expensive here.

[SmackFu]

Thanks for asking this question. I was wondering the same thing, but in the more general sense of why these things exist at all.

[John F]

Originally Posted by SmackFu

Thanks for asking this question. I was wondering the same thing, but in the more general sense of why these things exist at all.

The original design was the only way at the time to effectively bring hot and cold water to the same sink. Before the faucets we have today were invented bringing hot and cold together in one faucet would result in temperature and pressure mixing problems at that fixture as well as affecting the entire house under certain conditions.

Bringing them on separate taps/faucets was a necessity if you didn't what to have wild temperature fluctuations and pressure problems.

These days all of those issues have been resolved. In a properly designed home plumbing system now you can have hot water, piping hot water, cold water, warm water, and even 108 degree water set to turn on and fill you bathtub at 5.30 PM ready for you to walk in the door and take a bath when you get home from work if you want it.

Whatever the reasons different parts of the world choose to use the original systems has more to do with tradition, consumer expectancy, cost, and esthetics rather than practicality or efficiency.

[CurtC]

Originally Posted by Perderabo

I have always had "mixer taps" in every sink that I have ever used. But I rarely derive any benefit from them. It can take a minute or so for hot water to arrive.

In the greatest American tradition, my house has a pump on the hot water system so that hot water is available immediately from every tap in the house.

[jacksprat]

Originally Posted by CynicalGabe

I live in the US, and I have never had a single-handled faucet in the bathroom of any place I've lived.

Me too -- certainly not only in flats or apartments 100+ years old, either. All were and are cast iron sinks with two faucets.

[cowgirl]

Wow. Great answers, everyone. Water tanks in the attic, building regulations, national attitudes towards demanding service / grinning and bearing it, and that better-but-somehow-worse alternative of having a hot stream and a cold stream out of the same faucet, all provide a satisfactory explanation. Thanks!

Now, if you could only explain Lee Evans ...

[redtail23]

So what exactly is an electric shower? Are you talking about a flash-heater for the water? I'd heard they're very good and was thinking of installing some if we have to replace the water-heater. I need more info!

[Mk VII]

one where the a portion of the cold water passes through an electric heating element on its way to the shower head. When someone flushes the lavatory, or turns on another tap, screams of agony can be heard from the victim who is now getting a scalding dribble of water.

[redtail23]

Well, that commonly happens with tank-style heaters, too, or used to. Not that anyone would ever do such a thing, certainly not intentionally.

I searched up "electric shower" (didn't originally occur to me that they'd actually be sold by that name, duh!). That's an...interesting way to do it.

Not the same as a flash heater, I'm glad to say.

For those of you complaining about having to wait for hot water to traverse the pipes, you can get one of these to fill in the gap.

[GorillaMan]

Modern British electric showers are decent items, things you'd want to have. Both instant heat and full water pressure, irrespective of what's available elsewhere in the house. Yes, the old ones were awful things, but they're only found in places which haven't been refurbished in decades.

[Ximenean]

Maybe electric showers are uncommon in North America for the same reason that electric kettles are relatively rare - lower domestic mains voltage.

[TheLoadedDog]

Originally Posted by Mk VII

one where the a portion of the cold water passes through an electric heating element on its way to the shower head. When someone flushes the lavatory, or turns on another tap, screams of agony can be heard from the victim who is now getting a scalding dribble of water.

This must be different from the device I'm thinking of, then. All through SE Asia (and one cold-water bedsit I once lived in here in Sydney), a lot of places have no hot water in the building, so the shower water is heated by a small electric heater right there at the shower. This means there is only one tap - cold. You then adjust the temperature setting until it''s comfortably warm coming out the other end. If somebody else turns on a tap in another room, you don't get burned, you just get a few seconds of lower pressure, but at the same temperature. The ability to scald or freeze a housemate in the shower is usually confined to older houses with "proper" hot water systems (not electric showers), or towns with dodgy mains pressure. I've seldom had a problem in Sydney, but in country towns it's common.

The best thing about those electric showers, is that providing you're willing to pay the power bills, you can stay in the shower as long as you want.

[Mangetout]

Originally Posted by CurtC

In the greatest American tradition, my house has a pump on the hot water system so that hot water is available immediately from every tap in the house.

Do you mean a heating unit local to the tap? If not, where does the cold water in the pipe go when you turn it on?

[Fridgemagnet]

Originally Posted by Mk VII

one where the a portion of the cold water passes through an electric heating element on its way to the shower head. When someone flushes the lavatory, or turns on another tap, screams of agony can be heard from the victim who is now getting a scalding dribble of water.

Yeah, sometimes I forget and have a shower while the washing machine is on a cycle. You can tell when it reaches the rinse cycle.

Basic electric showers aren't thermostatically controlled. You can switch in 1 or 2 elements and regulate the water flow to some degree, but that's it. They rely on constant pressure, constant temperature water input to work well.

I once worked on an electronic design for a proper thermostatically controlled instant-water heater, marketed as a cheap hot water source for student rooms and suchlike. Even then you could only use a crude and relatively slow bang-bang servo or it would create illegal amounts of electromagnetic noise from switching the heating element quickly. This element was much smaller than for an electric shower, and properly thermostatically controlling a 10kW shower heating element is too much hassle for a domestic setup. For a shower it's easier to control the hot/cold input mix ratio to get the desired output temperature.

Maybe one of the reasons the US doesn't really do electric showers is the puny 110V they mostly have to work with. Sucking a 10kW load off that is going to require some seriously chunky copper cable. Even with the 230V in the UK you need a separate heavy duty shower feed going directly to the electricity junction box, or you'll eventually blow up every electronic item in the house with the back-EMF spikes from the shower being turned off.

[percypercy]

My house was built in 1926. Most of the sinks have been remodeled to have mixer taps, but the half bath on the first floor(which is also colder than hell in the winter) still has a sink with two faucets.
-Lil

[lissener]

There's one aspect that hasn't been treated yet: the history of the thing. The chronology of the technology.

We tend to look at things from a modern perspective, and see older things as less than, or not as good as, their modern versions. But you have to see it through the eyes of the people for whom it was a modern marvel, who would of course have been comparing it favorably to what it replaced.

Take talking pictures, frinstance. Most of us today can't fathom the popularity of silent film and we find it simply hard to believe that many people saw the addition of sound as a BAD thing. At least, it wasn't accepted with trumpets of joy for bringing movies closer to modern perfection. But the perspective--the paradigm, if I must--was completely different. Today, we see a movie as a simulacrum of real life, and the closer it can come to approximating physical reality--which includes sound, of course--the better we like it.

But in the early days of film, the paradigm was different. The first clue is what they were called: motion pictures. The were pictures. Pictures that moved, but primarily pictures nonetheless. The paradigm was something like, Here we have a photograph, a wonder of modern technology! A photo shows us a likeness unlike any painting has ever done, and it does it quickly and relatively cheaply. And with a technological advance, suddenly that static photograph has come to life, it moves, and it can tell a story!

People didn't see motion pictures as "reality minus sound," they saw them as "photographs PLUS movement." So they were already the result of an improvement; they didn't necessarily "lack" anything.

The same goes with the double tap. What preceded it? A pitcher full of cold water and a basin. Usually on a wash stand. You want warm water, you boil a kettle and some to the mix. People were used to using a bowl of water to do their washing; hot and cold running water wasn't part of their paradigm. And then a technological advance comes along and allows us to bring the water--not just the cold water, but the hot water as well--right to the basin, in pipes! Oh joy in the morning!

This was such an improvement upon the previous technology that I doubt anyone felt an immediate need to "fix" it, to bring the water into the basin in a single spout. That's just crazy talk! My mother mixed her water in the basin, so it's good enough for me.

It's only our modern perspective that looks down on separate taps as barbaric. That plus they suck; who wants to mix your water in the damn basin? Then you have to keep it clean.

[Princhester]

Originally Posted by GorillaMan

Modern British electric showers are decent items, things you'd want to have. Both instant heat and full water pressure, irrespective of what's available elsewhere in the house. Yes, the old ones were awful things, but they're only found in places which haven't been refurbished in decades.

and

Originally Posted by John F

There used to be but the advent of pressure balancing, thermostatic controls, and "non mixing" cartridges have resolved those issues.

They must just like it that way.

Theoretically maybe. But in reality, these solutions are kludges: desperate attempts to use high technology to get around the basically defective infrastructure, and they tend to fall way short of the mark. For my more colourfully expressed views, see here.

[CurtC]

Originally Posted by Mangetout

Do you mean a heating unit local to the tap? If not, where does the cold water in the pipe go when you turn it on?

By the way, by "greatest American tradition," I meant the tradition of demanding everything right now, not to imply that everyone has these water heater pumps.

To answer your question, no, my water heaters are in the garage, and there is a small pump near the bottom of them. This pump makes hot water instantly available from every tap in the house, like I said. I believe the way it works is that there are two pipes going to every sink, shower, and tub - one for the path from the heater to the tap, the other for the return, and hot water is always circulating through my house plumbing.

Seeing how this is a little wasteful, I put a timer on the pump so it operates only during the few hours a day when I actually need it. But it sure is convenient - I can step into the shower and then turn on the water!

[Mangetout]

Oh my! I had no idea such things even existed. A little wasteful? Yikes. Are these circulatory pipes well-insulated?

[Meurglys]

Originally Posted by lissener

There's one aspect that hasn't been treated yet: the history of the thing. The chronology of the technology.
<snip>
And then a technological advance comes along and allows us to bring the water--not just the cold water, but the hot water as well--right to the basin, in pipes! Oh joy in the morning!

Yes, a lot of the old tenement buildings had cold water systems long before a hot water system was fitted along side it - it would have been a lot easier and cheaper to fit a separate tap (just like the cold tap; no new design needed!) and feeder pipes, etc., beside the existing system, rather than rip a lot of piping out and do it all over.
And if that's how the plumbers were used to doing things, it becomes a normal part of life - two temperatures of water = two taps.