The Dreaded One Night Stand

On threads of a sexual morality nature I often hear uninvolved, women chime about how liberated they are and then they qualify that with a prissy, "Of course I'm not looking for a one-night-stand." Well, what's wrong with a one-night-stand? Not enough time to get your rationalization fix in? You need more time to suck up the bullshit of which you have become accustomed to?

If one night was good, why would you not want a return engagement?

Well, see, my bed is up against the wall, so I needed one night-stand. More than that, I'd have no place to put it. But one night-stand works great, I keep a lamp there and a kleenex box and whatever book I'm reading and... eh? What? Oh.....sorry.

CKDextHavn,

Do you mind! I'm trying to get flamed. You could at least have had the courtesy to call me a bastard.

jens,

If there were a return engagement it wouldn't be a one night stand, would it? Your question is a non sequitur. By the way, once you leave the farm, it is possible to meet a stranger, have sex, never see that person again, and not need thearpy because you feel you didn't get anything out of it.

Pooch, your ignorance is showing. Anyone with the intelligence of a rock would know that Jens has ample opportunity for a one night stand without ever leaving the farm. Just don't forget to close the gate behind you when you're done. Don't want to be out chasing sheep in the morning.

No need to thank me, Jens. Consider this defense work to be pro bono.

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The overwhelming majority of people have more than the average (mean) number of legs. -- E. Grebenik

Disease.

Being it takes 3 months for HIV to show up in a test, why would anyone want to risk that on a paltry onenight stand?

Okay, so before there weren't things like HIV to be concerned about.

So Pooch, perhaps the woman does not want to put herself to risk? Chances are she probably won't come the first time anyway. What's in it for her? Three months of wondering if she picked up HIV cause the condom fell off? Maybe another three months after that of wondering if she got the 5% of HIV virus that doesn't show up for 6 months?

Now Pooch, why would a woman want to put herself up to that? Course, some do, but that's life.

I've had alot of one-night stands in my life. None lately, but more than enough to know whereof I speak.

There's alot of good and maybe not so good reasons to avoid ONS's, for both sexes, but more particularly for women.

In saying this, I am sure I will get a few gals in an uproar, but ce la vie. For most women, there is something about intercourse that is automatically more intimate, more invasisve, more...involved, no matter how cheap and quick the experience is on the surface. No matter how liberated we are, women are mostly, by their very natures, vulnerable when it comes to sex. Letting some stranger stick his dick in you and then disappear just feels icky in the long run, and is rarely worth it in terms of sexual pleasure. For me, it almost never was. If it's really good, you generally want more and are bummed you ain't getting it, and if it sucked, then you can feel kinda lousy that you bothered at all. So what's the point?

As I say, I've been down that road many times. I came of age in Hollywood in the mid-70's, a time of ultimate sexual freedom, so I was weaned on ONS's. I don't regret them, I don't carry shame or guilt, but I certainly don't carry around much in the way of fond memories, either.

Guys, on the other hand, are sluts, and are happy to BE sluts, and that's perfectly ok if they can find women to be slutty with. (No arguing this one, boys: the proof is in the fact that pretty much the only market for male prositutes is with other males. The fact that men can PAY someone to have sex with them and ENJOY the experience never ceases to amaze me. I could NEVER enjoy it if I knew the only reasons someone was screwing me was for money. And most women feel the same.)



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Stoidela

******Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!******

I'm with Dex on this one, especially the Kleenex box part.

Stoidela - I agree absolutely. There was a time... mid 70's in SF... when I tried to be that "liberated." I didn't like it, recognized why and gave it up. There's always the impulse to attachment and it's as well to admit it and factor it into future plans.

Besides, why would I want to be with anyone who's not smart enough to realize that I deserve extended study? I am an epic - not Clif notes!

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You can only be a victim once. After that you're just a volunteer.

Naomi Judd

Anyone with the intelligence of a rock would know that Jens has ample opportunity for a one night stand without ever leaving the farm.--Doctor

I stand corrected.

Handy, I was wondering who would play the the obvious STD card. If she's reciting Hail Marys during sex it probably is a 'paltry' one night stand. Can you imagine a quality one night stand full of passion where the condom doesn't fall off? Of course a woman would not want to put herself up to what you described.

Stoidela and Sassy, at last, the voices of experience. I am not advocating ONS's. I am claiming that ONS's are not inherently bad. Could be a ONS is like eating fugu--it must be prepared properly. Now, on to the good stuff:

Guys, on the other hand, are sluts, and are happy to BE sluts

It's true, I have been a slut, but only in my heart. Handy and the Doc are not sluts and might take issue with this.

The fact that men can PAY someone to have sex with them and ENJOY the experience never ceases to amaze me.

Like in dating and marriage? Hey, we are used to it. Men are honest (except when they are trying to get laid, and this has been forced upon us) and can enjoy sex without the promise of respect in the morning. Besides, a good prostitute really does do all the work.

An old girlfriend used to say, "I don't fuck, I make love." I used to reply, "Well, couldn't we fuck once in a while?" Somewhere along the road, sex & love became interdependent in the minds of many women, while men have sex, love, and sex & love. The sixteen year old, hormones zinging, approaches the little princess and she says, "Tell me you love me." Thus the lesson begins.

(I can't believe I'm doing this, but what the hell...)

Hi! My name is Lynne, and I, at various times and occasions, have been a SLUT. A perfectly happy, unremorseful, bursting with self-esteem slut. I've also quite happily been in monogamous relationships, make a clear distinction between sex&love vs. sex for the sake of sex, and have enjoyed both, thank you very much. In short, love's nice, but hey, sometimes ya just wanna fuck. How 'bout that!

Gee, I feel much better, now that I've announced that to a few hundred people. Time for more restrained commentary. Pooch, appreciate your use of the qualifier "many women"...it's certainly not all of us, and my attitude was the norm rather than the exception amongst my friends when we were in our 20's. (Of course, we might have just gravitated toward each other --sluts unite!). I think there are certainly safety issues with ONS's, but there don't have to be moral or emotional ones. My personal take on this is I wouldn't bring home a total stranger (not that I would find it demeaning, but that I simply recognize the higher potential for ending up as a statistic), but casual "buddy sex" with a friend who you've got no interest in having a "romantic" relationship with? Sure, why not? Had a lot of fun that way. Stayed friends with 'em too.

Now, the disease thing. I'm a condom fanatic. Short of total abstinence, or virgin marries virgin, there's going to be some risk, but you can at least minimize it. Condom failure isn't all that common [sorry, no cite, but I'm recalling single digit percentage, correctly used]. Never happened to me. And now, listen up kids, cause here's my personal rant:

"Knowing" someone does NOT constitute "safe sex". Sleeping with someone you've known for 6 months isn't any safer than sleeping with someone you met last night. And it has nothing to do with trust or commitment. Plenty of little nasties floating around out there that are completely symptomless in men (and in a lot of women, too) that can quietly trash your reproductive system. There's a high enough awareness of HIV now that I like to think (or at least hope) that most folks get tested before putting the condoms away, but honestly people, how many of you sent your long term other off for a chlamydia test before swtching to the pill? After your both certified "clean", then committed monogamy'll keep you that way, but it doesn't do a damn thing on its own. Viruses and bacteria can't read marriage certificates.

End of public service announcement. Back to topic. I find nothing demeaning or degrading about enjoying sex for pleasure. It can be great. And sometimes, once is enough...just thank them for a job well done, send them out the door, and enjoy the memory. Just remember to play safe. And if you feel more comfortable getting to know someone better before you hop into bed? That's great too. Play safe anyway. It's a deeply personal choice, and I don't think there's any one "right" way to feel about the subject.

I think most one night stands have the potential to hurt or stir up emotions that are hard to deal with. However, every once in a great while, one can be wonderful experiences.

I travel for my job, mostly, the Baltimore/Washington DC area. On one trip I spent two weeks working closely with a extremely gorgeous man (a 16 on a scale of 1 - 10). There was a lot of flirtation and sparks between the two of us.

That weekend, we took the train to Washington DC and spent the entire day sight seeing and having a great time. Later that night, back in Baltimore, we walked around the Inner Harbor (our hotel was two blocks away) and had a few drinks on a romantic balcony that overlooked the water. I didn't invite him into my room and he didn't ask to come in, but things just progressed to that level. We spent that Sunday locked away in the room enjoying each other.

We knew that nothing would ever come of our actions. No empty promises of future dates or phone calls, we both knew that there would be none. (Okay, we have stayed in touch via e-mail, but he lives 2500 miles away and the chances of us ever seeing each other again are nil.) Although we really hit it off as far as work and friendship, the sex part was pure lust and positively FANTASTIC!!! It's one of my most favorite memories.

And yes, we did use protection.



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>^,,^<
KITTEN

He who walk through airport door sideways going to Bangkok. - Confucius

Ok, I know I'm going to get way flamed for this (You're so young, you don't know anything about anything yet!!!!), but here goes. I love one night stands. I lost my virginity that way (completely intentional), and afterwards spent six months with a different guy every night. It was FUN! Of course, I realize there are health concerns, and of course we practised safe sex (and yes, I know it's not 100% guaranteed), but hell, I only get to be young and stupid once, right? I have never regretted any of those guys, and I feel like the experience helped me discover things about myself that I would never know had I conformed to the norm and found myself a nice guy in the 9th grade and begun practising writing my first name with his last name.

Well, Cess, I suppose this explains why you can still manage to get people to hang out with you.

Cess: Where do I find women like you?:-)

Ok, I know I'm going to get way flamed for this (You're so young, you don't know anything about anything yet!!!!), but here goes. I love one night stands. I lost my virginity that way (completely intentional), and afterwards spent six months with a different guy every night. It was FUN!

Why should you get flamed? Hell, it's your body! You know the risks. You signed the waiver.

A different guy every night for 6 months? That roughly 180 guys. You're heading towards Wilt Chamberlain status.

Cess, sounds great as long as you move away when you finally do get married. How would you like to be your future husband? He wouldn't be able to go anywhere without running into some dude you had slept with. I have known guys in this position and it can get pretty ugly.

Now I know I will be flamed for this and that people will say "if the man is confident and self assured he won't care what his wife did before." YOu are right, and a confident woman wont care about how huge her ass is.

When you are still single, it is all well and good. But when you settle down, man, promiscuity is a different animal.

Mr. Z:

Oh please, how Neanderthal can you get. It's not so much about if a man is confident as it is if a man has a lick of sense.

Getting all bent out of shape about the fact that the woman you love and have committed to (and she to you) has had many affairs before you is retarded. Let's see... were YOU a virgin?

Explain to me, please, what exactly it is about that that is supposed to be so disturbing? Is it that he will somehow feel threatened that she still carries a torch for men she has already been with and left? Dumbass. Is it that he looks upon her as some kind of "used goods"? Hypocritical asshole. What exactly is it, what is the underlying explanation of what precisely it is that would bother him in this situation, hmm?

The double standard is alive and well, unfortunately, but that doesn't mean we have to buy into it. That's what keeps it alive and well. If we ignore it, maybe it will die the death it deserves to.

(PS: my hunny was attracted to me initially preceisely because of my vast prior experience. Our initial relationship was completely sexual, and he wanted me to tell him stories of my wild early years, it turned him on. And now he's pleased as punch that the woman he will be spending his life with is more than happy to satisfy all his sexual fantasies and has no silly-ass hangups in the bedroom. Including worrying about how huge my {truly huge} ass is.)


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Stoidela

******Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!******

Neanderthal my ass. It NOT about used goods, It is NOT about her holding a flame for someone else. I said it would be a problem if they stayed in the same town.

Stoid, How would you like to be in a room with 6 women who had torrid affairs with your husband? Now how about if a few were catty and wanted to throw it in your face? would this be a pleasant experience for you? If so, good for you. It would not be even slightly OK for any woman I know.

Talk about a freaking sexist prejudice. You assume that only men can get upset about their sig other's ex-lovers. It goes both ways. You know that as well as I do.

I'll give you an example. Friend of mine has a girlfriend. They have the discussion about who have you slept with, blah, blah. She says 2 guys, he says ten girls...all is well. One night at a bar it comes out that she has given BJ's to about half the guys at the bar. Turns out everyone is totally crackin on this guy because she blows everybody (which she feels is not sex.)

I assume that you are saying that he should look around and think, "Wow, I bet my girl gives the best BJ's in town! Goood for me!"

And I'll say it again, I am talking about being in close proximity to these folks. I was not a virgin, nor was my wife, but I don't have to to have daily reminders, rumors, wisecracks etc. thrown in my face on a regular basis. And being a non-virgin is not the same as having 1500 sexual partners by age 22.


Tell me, any guys out there who are looking for the woman who has slept with everyone in town?

I am happy that your man has a fetish for your sex life prior to him. Some guys like to hear about other men having sex with their wives. Some like to watch it. That is great for them. If everyone is happy with the situation, then boffo. But I doubt, very strongly, this is the norm for EITHER sex.

It is not about just men! Or do we have a consensus here from the female members that they would love a promiscuous man with ex flings all around town?

I have to support Mr. Zambesi in the concept that moving would probably be in order... because there's a huge difference between "my wife has had other partners" and "the guy at the end of the bar knows what my wife's nipples look like." I think anyone who expects a virgin (excepting those whose
religion requires it) is being unreasonable. I think it's probably a little harder for men than women, although I don't know why (another thread?) I do know that every time I've checked, every study I've read supports the idea that what is a reasonable number of partners for a man is too many for a woman, at least in the eyes of most men. So while a man may be at ease with the expertise his wife or girlfriend learned from others, he does not want to have to think about those others - and he certainly doesn't want to have to meet them on any regular basis.

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You can only be a victim once. After that you're just a volunteer.

Naomi Judd

Mr. Z:

Stoid, How would you like to be in a room with 6 women who had torrid affairs with your
husband? Now how about if a few were catty and wanted to throw it in your face?

I'd laugh. After all, after sampling all the goods, guess who he picked?

You assume that only men can get upset about
their sig other's ex-lovers. It goes both ways. You know that as well as I do.

Well, certainly both sexes can be jealous, insecure and uptight. Does that mean we should encourage it?

She says 2 guys, he says ten girls...all is well. One
night at a bar it comes out that she has given BJ's to about half the guys at the bar.
Turns out everyone is totally crackin on this guy because she blows everybody

She made a big mistake. She lied. And it frustrates the hell out of me when I hear/read people recommending that people lie about their prior sexual lives. (Excuse me: "refrain from telling the whole truth".) Oh yeah, THAT'S a healthy relationship. Bah.

And there's a difference between having a healthy, mature attitude about the fact that the person you love has a past and actively seeking out people with such a past.

We all do things in our youth that we might not have if given the chance to do over. When I fell in love with my hunny, it wasn't for his past, it was for his NOW, for who he is, for what his past has made him. I don't care if he screwed his way across America and a few cocker spaniels besides, as long as he is faithful to me now that's all that matters.



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Stoidela

******Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!******

I would agree that a persons past (barring a history of manipulation and immorality that would fortell future actions) is unimportant. But that does not mean that I want to know all about it. In fact, I really don't want to know any of it. Please don't tell me about the time you (insert something unsavory here.)

Nor do I care to bare my past in its gruesome entirety to my spouse. Some things are just better left unsaid. If you are surrounded by others who were part of these events, you may find that you have no choice but to hear about them, embellished and enriched.

You are getting dangerously close to a kind of moral relativism here. Your argument could easily be used to support open marriage. After all, if I am totally secure. As long as my wife comes home to me, doesn't that mean that she is choosing me over them? In fact, it should boost my ego if my wife continues to sleep with other men.

THe truth is we are emotional creatures and sex is charged with emotional power. We can't treat it like a bike ride in the park.

I do not necesarily want a virginal wife. But you have to understand something about guys: they will use the fact that they slept with your wife against you. "Oh, yeah, I fucked her." they will say. This would hurt me if I had to face it. I believe that it would hurt most guys..and most women.

Sure, we should all be self actualized beings who can rise above our emotions, who can laugh heartily in the face of the harshest criticism and walk away completely unaffected. We should never worry about our weight, body image or self worth.

But until we all reach this point, wouldn't it be wise to recognize some of our weaknesses and lead a life that respects them?

Stoidela said "Well, certainly both sexes can be jealous, insecure and uptight. Does that mean we should encourage it?"

No, but we should understand that not everyone is 100% free from these things. YOu called me a neanderthal and suggested that I was sexist because of my post. My point was that it goes both ways. In College a lot of women who wanted a serious relationship wouldn't date me because of my rrputation. My point was not sexist.

Also said" And there's a difference between having a healthy, mature attitude about the fact that the person you love has a past and actively seeking out people with such a past."

Seeking them out would be VERY unhealthy and twisted. I am not talking about seeking them out. I am talking about having them thrust on you.

Well, I guess I'm a little bit Neanderthal, too. My SO is not a virgin, in fact she was married. This doesn't bother me. I've never asked her about other partners, but she probably had some. That's okay. But if she had, say, 200 or something like that, I admit it would give me pause. And if I had to live in a small town where the ex-partners amounted to a significant proportion of the population, even if they were all discreet about it, I have to admit it would still bug me. That's how I feel.

So far people have said"yeah, it would bother me", but no one has explained WHY. What is the underlying assumption/feeling/logic that says "my beloved having many previous partners will bother me...BECAUSE...."??

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Stoidela

******Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!******

Never had a one nighter, but I did have a six-month-stand. We had nothing in common, nothing to talk about, so we just humped like rabbits. I moved away, we never spoke to each other again. I wouldn't change a thing.

I don't see that I particularly NEED a logical reason. It's just how I think I'd feel in that situation.

APB:

OK.

Ever heard the quote: "The unexamined life is not worth living"

You just bop through life without ever looking at why you feel the things you do, make the choices you make? More power to you, I guess, but that wouldn't be much of a life to me. How do you grow?



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Stoidela

******Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!******

guy at the end of the bar knows what my wife's nipples look like

Or worse yet, offering to show pictures of them.

Thanks, Stoidela, that's very understanding of you.

But it can actually make one's life fuller when they accept that they don't have to always feel the way some philosophy says they SHOULD feel. It's those differences people spend their time analyzing, trying to reason their way to a change of heart. Sometimes it can work, I guess, though I haven't seen it happen very often. More often it just makes people lie to themselves about who they are and what they are feeling. I'm not saying you're such a one, but I don't feel like I have to defend MY every emotional sensation with a syllogism, either.

That said, don't get me wrong. I don't think LESS of any woman (or man) for having lots of partners; I've had a few myself. I wouldn't rule out a relationship with them either (uh, the women I mean). But if I had to live in a place where I knew that a "large" proportion of the men of appropriate age (large depending on what the absolute numbers are - see brackets below) had had sex with the lady, it would make me uncomfortable.

[Take a town of 32,000. That's 16,000 men. Assume the average age is eighty and that the population is distributed equally over all age groups. Within the ten year bracket around a woman's age are 16,000/8 = 2,000 men. Ten percent of this is 200 partners in the social group I'd be interacting with in that town if I'm around the same age as the woman. Yes I'd be uncomfortable.
In NY, with 8,000,000 people, same assumptions, the ten year bracket has a million people in it. Having partners amounting to even 0.1% of this is an unlikely 1,000 partners. I would not have to deal with a lot of ex-partners no matter what the lady's prior habits were, if we were in NY, unless those habits were so extreme as to indicate psychological problems anyway. Such a history would not make me as uncomfortable there.]

Stoidela, I have been giving your question some thought. There are a few ways to answer it.

1) we want our relationship with our partner to have a special and unique quality. We do not want a partner who says that they loved someone else more than us or had better moments. Or that they did all of the same things or felt the same way. That would just make us one of the many.

2) There is some competition. Your Sig Other slept with 1000 people. Had all kinds of wild times. Some probably were better than what you can provide. nobody likes to be the 2nd best. Whether this is true, the doubt can be there, especially when you know she/he slept with that specific person

2) Jealousy. Jealousy is healthy in the right dose. Do not tell me that we should eliminate all jealousy from our lives. If that were the case then we would not bother too much with monagamy because we just wouldn't care. That is not to say that we should be very jealous people. It is just that it is healthy in the right measure.

3) Because we are societal and it does matter what others think of us to some degree. I know, Ghandi, Jesus and Buddha didn't. WE should strive not to care. But people whispering and pointing will eventually get to you.

4) THis is the best answer. Because we are not machines. Why does a rainy day sometimes make us depressed. Why do I get emotional over the first snow of the year. Why do I bother to decorate my house. I mean, I really only need shelter and food. WHy would colors and paintings effect me? Why does a loud screechy voice bother me? Why am I attracted to boobs? I don't know. I could examine why running into every person my sig other ever fucked for the rest of my life and I would probably never get the exact answer.

Once again, if you want to sleep with everyone in town, by all means, go ahead. But don't blame ME because it borthers me. You are promiscuous and now I am the neanderthal because I don't like it?

[the first supraliminal]

Some guys will fuck anything. I am not one of those guys. Is it neanderthal for me to want the same from my partner?



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[kellibelli]

you should all rent 'clerks' very funny, and it touches nicely on the topic.

I think the point of a one nighter is to be discreet...male or female, dont boink everyone in your social circle, or it will make later serious relationships more complicated.
I know from experience.If you or your sig other has 'done' alot of the people you run into, you tend to wonder about ...well, how good the sex was.y'know?

[matt_mcl]

I have had a somewhat unconventional, somewhat conventional experience with this. I had my first time (an expression I prefer to "lost my virginity", since i regard it as a gain) with my best friend and it was fabulous. I've had several one-, two-, and three-night stands, with both friends and strangers. However, I'd still have to say that the best sex I've had was with my best friend (whom I regard as pretty much as close as you get to a lover without being one, although we haven't had sex since April of 1998), and the three boyfriends I've had who I've actually loved have been great in bed (a coincidence).

But, I do not denigrate the goodness of one-night stands, as long as they are safe. One guy I had three or four times, who was abut ten years older than me, was nonetheless a fabulous lover.

[matt_mcl]

I dunno about the moving. I don't really have a problem knowing that my ex knows the guy I had my first time with, or some permutation thereof. I've never been anything but frank when talking about my sexual history with my partners. We all prefer it that way.

[Leslie]

This topic is so interesting to me. My husband and I have been together since our freshman year of college (15 years ago). We met as virgins, and have never been with anyone since. We weren't virgins for any particular reason, we're not terribly religous people. It's just that we'd never really met anyone we'd wanted to have sex with until then!

So, the issue of previous sex partners has never come up. But about 5 years ago, I found out that he had a "fling" with a girl at the beginning of freshman year. No sex was involved, just a lot of "making out". I had no idea of this. He'd always told me he'd "never done anything" with this girl. (Almost all the other guys on our floor had.) I took "never done anything" to mean never done anything but he seemed to mean anything involving genitals.

I was stunned.

Why was I stunned? It was 10 years ago! He hadn't fucked her! What was my problem? I was stunned at the story and stunned by my reaction. My husband was stunned, too. In some part of my brain, it felt as though he had cheated on my. (God, this sounds so prudish. I'm really not a prude. I just happen to have been with the same guy since I was 17 and haven't wanted to cheat on him.)

I guess the problem I have with "previous lovers" is that it somehow seems to violate the "sanctity" of relations I have with my SO. Sex to me is something really special. Sacred, actually. And to think of my SO's heart having been that open with someone who wasn't me makes it feel like what's happening between us isn't as special as I thought it was.

Does that make any sense? Ugh. I'm wishing I hadn't "shared" so much now.

That said, I truly don't have a problem with Stoidela's attitude. I think she shows a REMARKABLE amount of self-assurance and I wish I could be that secure inside my head.

Besides, she's got the coolest web site in the world. (I was just plugging it to some friends at dinner the other night, Stoidela.)

[dasmoocher]

A lot of posters are talking about possible social situations with a partner's previous "lovers"; I have a different spin--previous non-lovers. I remember being at a wedding reception arguing politics with the guy who had married the local town party girl. He was not from the area and apparently had no idea his wife used to go out about every night looking to get laid. She usually succeeded. One night, being too drunk to drive, I crashed in the guest room after a party at her house. She climbed into bed with me later wearing only a T-shirt. Guy+drunk=horny, but I couldn't bring myself to stick my dick where ~200+ guys had been. No matter how talented guys had told me she was. I told her I was still carrying a torch for the girl I had just broken up with (not true--but,how do you reject an offer like that without hurting her feelings?). I remember a delicious sense of smugness as this guy argued with me even though he had valid points. It was like I had license to disregard him; arrogant, I know, but that's the way it felt. I looked around and saw about a half a dozen guys that had had his wife and I had shot her down. He had no idea why he didn't rate highly on anyone's scale. We had all wondered who would marry her (this girl had been known to blow a train of guys in the bathroom back during high school parties--imagine the long line for the guy's bathroom). I think if you're with someone you love, it shouldn't matter; but I also think, for better or worse, your sexual past or you partner's reflects on how people judge you.
As for the old post asking why guys go to prostitutes, my brother makes the argument that the men aren't paying for sex (they are), they're paying for the lack of any attachments/strings that are usually involved with sex. Basically, a guy wants to bust a nut, but not have to go through the effort it takes to have a real partner, one night stand or wife. I think there's something to this argument.

[The Ryan]

Stoidela
Member posted 07-19-99 01:28 PM

“Guys, on the other hand, are sluts, and are happy to BE sluts”

Am I the only one that finds such a gross stereotype to be offensive? I find the fact that you, without even meeting me, think that you know what sort of person I am and what sort of relationship I’m looking for to be rather presumptuous. And just what “other hand” are you referring to? Your post hardly showed women to be paragons of chastity.

“No arguing this one, boys: the proof is in the fact that pretty much the only market for male prositutes is with other males.“

If you think that constitutes any sort of “proof”, then I hope you never end up on a jury. Yes, men, in general, will do more for sex than women, and are willing to accept less of an emotional connection, but that just shows that they prefer casual sex to abstinence, not that they prefer casual sex to noncasual sex. And all of this is refers to men in general, not all men. There’s a word for assuming that everyone in a particular group is the same. It’s “prejudice”.


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-Ryan
" 'Ideas on Earth were badges of friendship or enmity. Their content did not matter.' " -Kurt Vonnegut, Breakfast of Champions

[Fretful Porpentine]

647 (and any other males who'd care to answer this) --

Damn, every time I think I have men figured out I get confused again. I can understand why some people would look down on a *woman* if she'd slept around a lot, but why would it reflect badly on her husband (assuming she stayed faithful after they were married)? Seems to me that, if anything, he should be flattered that she picked him out of the crowd. So what's the big deal?

[Shirley Ujest]

Here's the conundrum :

If you (male or female) sleep around you are either:

1) Very secure in your identity and sexuality.
2) Very insecure with your self image and worth and trying to fill a void caused by what is missing.

[OpalCat]

Neanderthal my ass. It NOT about used goods, It is NOT about her holding a flame for someone else. I said it would be a problem if they stayed in the same town.

I think you're assuming everyone lives in some backwater 3 horse town. I grew up in a city of over a million people, and even though I lived in the same city, same part of the city even, for 7 years after graduating from high school, I think I ran into someone I knew maybe twice. 25 years in the same city, and I almost NEVER bumped into people I knew. I think you're being a bit ridiculous.

I have to support Mr. Zambesi in the concept that moving would probably be in order... because there's a huge difference between "my wife has had other partners" and "the guy at the end of the bar knows what my wife's nipples look like."

Hehe...there have been literally hundreds of times when my husband has been in a bar full of men and known for a fact that ALL of them knew what my nipples looked like. Of course, it was a topless bar, and I worked there...

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>^,,^<
"Cluemobile? You've got a pickup..."
OpalCat's site: http://fathom.org/opalcat
The Teeming Millions Homepage: fathom.org/teemingmillions

[OpalCat]

But that does not mean that I want to know all about it. In fact, I really don't want to know any of it. Please don't tell me about the time you (insert something unsavory here.)

I don't understand that attitude. I know it is common, but I just don't understand it. I want to know as much as possible about my husband. I want to know what he did when he was a kid, when he was a teenager, during his wild years, all of it. It is all who he is and I'm not afraid of it, threatened by it, or whatever. Likewise I would hope that he is interested in my past. We both talk at length about old relationships of ours... it is the same as talking about anything else... I don't see any point in making a big deal out of it. *shrug*

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>^,,^<
"Cluemobile? You've got a pickup..."
OpalCat's site: http://fathom.org/opalcat
The Teeming Millions Homepage: fathom.org/teemingmillions

[OpalCat]

Why does a rainy day sometimes make us depressed.

I adore and live for rainy days. This has nothing to do with anything, but I needed to say it anyway.

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>^,,^<
"Cluemobile? You've got a pickup..."
OpalCat's site: http://fathom.org/opalcat
The Teeming Millions Homepage: fathom.org/teemingmillions

[Byzantine]

Rather than cut and paste those I disagree with I'd rather just take a go at this topic with my own opinion. Those who might feel slammed by this can e-mail me. Or trash me here, I don't care since this is just IMHO. Background here is important I feel. I'm female, 33, this happened when I was 23. Okay let's get to the good stuff:

I've done ONS and have at times enjoyed them and at others hated them. Sometimes they mix. I can't give you my whole life history (who the fuck would care for one) but I can give an example. I was in Ireland and knew that my chances of being with this woman again were slim. She was funny, sweet, honest and one of the most wonderfully entertaining people I have ever met in my life. I fell in love with her in a matter of minutes and there was something so compelling about her that I just couldn't walk away. She felt the same toward me.

We spent the night together (my first time with another woman, hers too) and it was one of the most dear, most honest, most fulfilling times in my life. Both sexually and on a deeper, more emotional level. I always think of her as someone I could have spent my life with. But she was never going to come to the U.S. and I knew I would have few chances to see her in Ireland.

It was passionate, brief but meaningful and we both said goodbye knowing that we couldn't be together again due to circumstances beyond our control. I still think of her to this day. And no, I have never agonized over if this means I'm gay or bi, honestly I couldn't care less. All it means to me is that in one brief shining moment I fell in love with someone, expressed it sexually and moved on. So did she.

There is no shame in loving or expressing it. Only shame it what other people might think. All I can say, if you are offended is UNFUCK you since this was one of the most poignant moments of my life.



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The moon looks on many flowers, the flowers on but one moon.

[Byzantine]

That should be "shame only IN what" not it. But still, if you get pissed dial my e-mail or dial 1-800-get-grip! Thanks!


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The moon looks on many flowers, the flowers on but one moon.

[the first supraliminal]

There is no shame in loving or expressing it. Only shame it what other people might think. All I can say, if you are offended is UNFUCK you since this was one of the most poignant moments of my life.

Aren't we a bit defensive?



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¾È ³ç, ÁÖ µ¿ ÀÏ

[dasmoocher]

Fretful Porpentine-I'll answer from my point of view regarding my response. If this guy was so clueless regarding his wife's past history (and, he had made statements at parties regarding her pre-marriage chastity that just stopped the conversation in it's tracks; we knew this guy through her-so, it wasn't our place to say anything), why would I think he had a clue about other things? Whether he did or not, it certainly reflected on him. As far as her picking him outta the crowd to be her man, I think he was one of the few takers.

[Byzantine]

Beeruser: that's a joke from another thread! TennHippie would get it!

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The moon looks on many flowers, the flowers on but one moon.

[skarpallu]

Ms. Byantine: Would you please..err.. give us more details about what happened in your ONS in Ireland?


Now, what are the chances of Byzantine obliging me? I say, as likely as Mariah Carey and Aretha Franklin making a song together.

[Byzantine]

Skar– keep holding your breath, sugar! The point was how we felt about ONS not details! I'd advise you to use your imagination but I wouldn't want you to hurt yourself!

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The moon looks on many flowers, the flowers on but one moon.