dinos & oil

[my ancestors were amoebae]

i betting that this has been brought up here in the past. i just can't kind where.

i got a feller at work that going on about infinate crude oil suppies. that the oil deposits have to be the result of a process that is a current consiracy. his evidence is that there couldn't have been enough dinos to result in the quatities of oil we have today.

so, i'm looking for the nice well thought out response that i'm sure resides in the halls of dope.

[Chronos]

There couldn't have been enough dinos, sure. But there were plenty of giant ferns and other plants. Contrary to popular belief, most "fossil fuels" come primarily from vegetable matter, not animal.

[Peter Morris]

I believe your friend may be referring to Thomas Gold's theories on the origin of petroleum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin

[JustAnotherGeek]

<ahem> ever hear the phrase "throwing oil on troubled waters and setting them on fire?" I've never heard it outside my family, but we use it like some people use "fanning the flames"

So, without further ado - abiogenic hydrocarbon supplies


:::lights match...:::




(I don't yet know the sides to this issue, or their data. So I won't be joining much. I do want to see where this goes, tho.)

[Oslo Ostragoth]

Something I heard recently but hadn't thought about:

Some guy says that fossils have never been found below 500 feet below the surface, but oil is found at depths of 5000 feet plus. I assume he was arguing that oil was the result of geologic processes, not biologic.

Me, I have no idea.

[my ancestors were amoebae]

i thank you all for your input. from what i've been able to find: this is more a case of alternate theories than conspiracy.

that said. i presented the previous statement along with some of the sources links to this thread. this joker was totally unimpressed and worse he enlightened me to the "FACT" that the heavy hurricane activity over the last 2-years is really the work of weather controlling terroists!!!!!??????
i would love any comments on this one but i'm not even going to try to make a case to my paranoid little friend.

[LiveOnAPlane]

No, it would be a waste of your time.

Everyone knows that these hurricanes are, in fact, caused by God as He prepares for the End Times, and if your friend is not aware of this fact, then you are not going to be able to get through to him with the Truth.

[my ancestors were amoebae]

oh man thanks, i've never gotten to use the god defense personally. so, i didn't even think of it. today i've tried getting through about 4.5 inches of skull on the topics of weather control, moon landing hoax, and abiogenic petroleum. i only with this dope were jerking my chain.

the help on the "fossil" fuel question was helpful.

but the god argument is priceless

[kanicbird]

There is also the non-biological oil theory, which contends that oil is pretty darn frequent in the universe, either by ET life or a natural process. (libs would say no wonder that W wants to explore Mars).

[LiveOnAPlane]

Originally Posted by my ancestors were amoebae

oh man thanks, i've never gotten to use the god defense personally. so, i didn't even think of it. today i've tried getting through about 4.5 inches of skull on the topics of weather control, moon landing hoax, and abiogenic petroleum. i only with this dope were jerking my chain.

the help on the "fossil" fuel question was helpful.

but the god argument is priceless

Thank you! Once you get into the "mind set" of these people, the comebacks come pretty easily. Peace, love, joy!

[Mangetout]

Originally Posted by my ancestors were amoebae

oh man thanks, i've never gotten to use the god defense personally. so, i didn't even think of it. today i've tried getting through about 4.5 inches of skull on the topics of weather control, moon landing hoax, and abiogenic petroleum. i only with this dope were jerking my chain.

the help on the "fossil" fuel question was helpful.

but the god argument is priceless

FTR abiogenic petroleum is not really a conspiracy theory; it's just a fringe hypothesis that is most likely mostly wrong., but I agree that this individual is beyond hope; you'll never persuade him to abandon his other conspiracy theories, however, for a little fun, You could try counter-conspiracy, like this:

Him: The moon landing was a complete hoax
You: Ahaaaa... that's just what they want you to believe.

The main problem is keeping a straight face.

[tracer]

Originally Posted by Chronos

There couldn't have been enough dinos, sure. But there were plenty of giant ferns and other plants. Contrary to popular belief, most "fossil fuels" come primarily from vegetable matter, not animal.

I thought plant matter typically turned into coal, not petroleum.

[Mangetout]

Originally Posted by tracer

I thought plant matter typically turned into coal, not petroleum.

I think it depends on the type of plant matter and the circumstances in which it was laid down; coal is like compressed forest floor/peat bog; oil shale (from which, as I understand it, oil is squeezed out and accumulated into oil fields by natural processes) is more like the remains of silt deposits with a high proportion of organic matter.

[Mangetout]

Just out of interest, have textbooks ever advanced the oil=dinos thing? - I ask because when I was at school (about three decades ago), this was never mentioned - oil was described as deriving from the deposited remains of plankton and organic sediments in rivers, lakes and ocean basins.

[Thalion]

Originally Posted by my ancestors were amoebae

he enlightened me to the "FACT" that the heavy hurricane activity over the last 2-years is really the work of weather controlling terroists!!!!!??????

I'm pretty certain that your friend listens to Coast to Coast AM with George Noory. Both of these theories come up quite often.

[picunurse]

Originally Posted by tracer

I thought plant matter typically turned into coal, not petroleum.

I thought coal was a form of petroleum... If it isn't, what is it?

[Una Persson]

Originally Posted by picunurse

I thought coal was a form of petroleum... If it isn't, what is it?

No. Coal is, to the best of our knowledge, compressed vegetable matter which has gone through a process of time, pressure, and heat called "coalification". There is some serious debate about the actual manner in which the vegetable matter accumulated, and Biblical literalists are quite fond of using the large deposits as proof of Noah's flood; I could write at length about this but I don't really want to this morning.

Oil is something else entirely. Coal does contain oils in the form of volatile hydrocarbons, and it does contain/release a buttload of methane (pun intended), but it is not formed in any way near the same process as petroleum.

Abiotic oil, however, is a more serious topic than one would think. There are a lot of things about the formation of oil that do not currently have an explanation. I spent a LOT of time trying to investigate and write a report on it for Cecil, and had to abandon it because there are too many things that just don't look right. Oil does form in large reservoirs where it ought not to, in rock strata where it ought not to, at depths where it ought not to, does not contain the types of hydrocarbons one would expect from certain processes...I'm not a believer or proponent in abiotic oil (except to say that it's possible that it may occur in small quantities), but I do have to say that an awful lot of the industry seems to be in a "pooh-pooh" mode of thinking, and when you start asking a lot of "why" questions, you get back a alot of circular logic and references, and incomplete answers. I think a good thing to say is not that "abiotic oil is a crackpot theory" but that oil creation is somewhat of a mystery in some ways.

People online that aren't in the energy field are also very good at Googling for an answer and throwing out a link and saying "so much for abiotic oil, bitch", but when you start to ask the hard questions they accuse you of either believing in Bigfoot or being an "evil Republican".

[Shalmanese]

Originally Posted by Una Persson

Abiotic oil, however, is a more serious topic than one would think. There are a lot of things about the formation of oil that do not currently have an explanation. I spent a LOT of time trying to investigate and write a report on it for Cecil, and had to abandon it because there are too many things that just don't look right. Oil does form in large reservoirs where it ought not to, in rock strata where it ought not to, at depths where it ought not to, does not contain the types of hydrocarbons one would expect from certain processes...I'm not a believer or proponent in abiotic oil (except to say that it's possible that it may occur in small quantities), but I do have to say that an awful lot of the industry seems to be in a "pooh-pooh" mode of thinking, and when you start asking a lot of "why" questions, you get back a alot of circular logic and references, and incomplete answers. I think a good thing to say is not that "abiotic oil is a crackpot theory" but that oil creation is somewhat of a mystery in some ways.

So why not say that in the staff report? I, for one, would be fascinated in reading a staff report on abiotic oil, even if it were inconclusive. Besides, it's something which we can gently rib you about in 20 years time about how wrong you got it.

[JustAnotherGeek]

Una Persson, I second Shalmanese!

Please move forward with that article. I would love to know more, and, as you pointed out, just doing an internet search is not the best way to learn.

Give us the article!

[Una Persson]

Originally Posted by Shalmanese

So why not say that in the staff report? I, for one, would be fascinated in reading a staff report on abiotic oil, even if it were inconclusive. Besides, it's something which we can gently rib you about in 20 years time about how wrong you got it.

Because it's something I hope to be able to resolve at some point in the future. Like other active writers of the reports I have several that are in half-done state, waiting on some new information or a new idea to hit. I have some hope of getting a more complete answer on why oil forms from a few people I've been in contact with. Not much, but some. Now, if people asked Cecil more questions about coal, then I could dash out some reports, but I think all those have been answered.