ARG220 - Let him live?

Is anyone else as sick and tired of Adam and his effort to turn EVERY topic into a debate about heaven and hell. Maybe his going to heaven sooner than later would be just dessert. After all, what a more boring place than his idea of reward for all these wonderful works he's doing?

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He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice - Albert Einstein

Yeah, he's a loser. Let it go.

He's kinda funny, though.

[StrTrkr777]

Well you are obviously going to Hell for even thinking such a thing.

Just kidding. Thought I would turn this into a Heaven or Hell thread before Adam.

Maybe he will learn to lighten up. Though some seem to enjoy bashing him and if he were gone, they might not have anything else to do.

Jeffery

[jazzmine]

Jeffery said:

Thought I would turn this into a Heaven or Hell thread before Adam.

She squeals with delight and hands you the "I can turn any debate into a heaven or hell discussion faster than adam can award" (otherwise known as the ictadiahohdftac award).

trisha

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He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice - Albert Einstein

[Czarcasm]

I believe I know ARG220's secret-He wants to be a M*A*R*T*Y*R! He envisions himself to be Daniel in the den of lions. "They're all attacking me, so I MUST be on the side of the angels!" He deliberately posts to create attacks, just to show his "bravery".

[jazzmine]

I often find it very disappointing that "bravery" is not, a lot of the times, backed up by intelligence.

trisha

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He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice - Albert Einstein

If I must die, then why? I seriously want to know what all of you think of me, and why.

Adam

[ChrisCTP]

Adam asks:
"If I must die, then why?"

Adam, they don't seriously want you to die. They just want you to stop turning every discussion into a sermon. There are other message board sites for theological discussion and debate. Do yourself a favour and face the facts. These people, myself included, don't hold much interest in what God thinks about <insert earthly, tangible topic here>... we care what we think. We ask each other questions because we want to know what the others have to say. If we believed that all the answers could be found in the bible, we'd read that, instead of these message boards. If we wanted to talk about Jesus, Allah, Buddha, Zeus, Ra, or any other deity, there would be a thread created for such a purpose...most likely in GQ or GD. So, Adam, not to put too sharp a point on it, if you're going to post religious messages in a clearly NON-religious thread, expect some backlash.

He also requests:
"I seriously want to know what all of you think of me, and why."

If that hasn't been made clear, then you're wearing blinders.

[ChrisCTP]

DISCLAIMER: (also known as Covering My Ass In A Manner So As Not To Be Ostracized And Censored As Has Become The Custom These Days)

I realize that by saying "we" in reference to members of the SDMD, that I'm not actually speaking for absolutely everyone, and I just wanted to clarify that I used the word "we" generically, rather than definitively.

[Alex Kennedy]

ChrisCTP said:

If we wanted to talk about Jesus, Allah, Buddha, Zeus, Ra, or any other deity, there would be a thread created for such a purpose...most likely in GQ or GD.

Now, now, let's not get nasty and start calling names. You know, I know, and the large majority of Buddhists know, that the Historical Buddha is not a god. Even the cosmic Buddha is not a god, just some dude (or cosmos) which has attained its Buddha nature. Heck, it's made pretty clear that gods (or, at least, angelic beings) can't attain their buddha nature. Plus, Shaka (Or Siddhartha, or however you want to call him) exlicitly said "I'm not a god, don't worship me). I guess there are some people who for some reason worship the historical Buddha as a god, but I always wonder if these people have actually read any teachings. However, I'm not going to make a big fight of it; such is the way of the floating world.

Boy, I like using these UBB code things!

[C K Dexter Haven]

Chris says: << I realize that by saying "we" in reference to members of the SDMD, that I'm not actually speaking for absolutely everyone, and I just wanted to clarify that I used the word "we" generically, rather than definitively. >>

Aha, Chris, so you're using the editorial oui... er, I mean, the editorial wheeeeeeee.

I.....MUST.....WITNESS.....CANNOT.....CONTROL.....URGE.....
Must.....show.....them.....the.....error.....of.....their.....ways

sheesh and pshaw

god, don't you just love that word "pshaw" I have teenagers now and find many uses for it.

trisha

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He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice - Albert Einstein


(Note: I've inserted a carriage return in an effort to get this topic to format properly)


[Note: This message has been edited by Lynn Bodoni]

[jazzmine]

Is it just me, or did I fuck up the board with my stupid ellipses? (Apologies to TennHippie for the sexual reference )

trisha

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He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice - Albert Einstein

[Mr Thin Skin]

I'm new here, but I don't get it. I went to the Great Debates forum and looked for a likely topic that this ARG person would be mucking up. "Biblical Errancy" looked like a good one. ARG only made one remark there. He essentially professed his ignorance of the bible then shut up. I always like watching glassy-eyed fanatics at work, but I'm sorely disappointed with ARG. Judging from what I saw in that topic, there are some very knowledgeable persons here. Does ARG discount their knowledge as book only and not from the heart?

Adam wrote:

If I must die, then why? I seriously want to know what all of you think of me, and why.
Adam

I like you, because you stick up for what you believe in and seem to be a compassionate person. That doesn't mean I agree with you all the time, but I think you're a decent guy.

Aw, I like ARG! As a dedicated heathen and atheist, I find it fascinating to hear about others' religious beliefs. I also didn't realize how horrifying and illogical Judaism was until CM started telling us about it, either. So let the religious people have their say, bless their little cotton socks! We all learn a lot--though it's not usually what they intended for us to learn . . .

[StrTrkr777]

ARG I have nothing against you. But as has been discussed in the past, because we cannot know a person's real character or sincerity on this or any other message board, witnessing does no good. It should occur with those you spend actual physical time with. They will know who you and and your heart and will be more receptive to your message.

Also, don't quit posting on religious threads, just keep in mind that others have different beliefs than you and telling them they are wrong will not win friends. Take what they say to heart, pray on it, compare it to your own beliefs and then post why you believe differently on the matter.

From this we hopefully all learn from each other and hopefully grow stonger in our own beliefs. I know learning more about Judaism from CK, CM, Keeves, etc. has increased my knowledge of the bible and strengthened my beliefs.

Just lighten up a bit.

Jeffery

[jazzmine]

thank you Jeffery, that was very well put.

trisha

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He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice - Albert Einstein

[vanillanice]

Arg, You know I love you.If you weren't hitting home with your statements,people wouldn't be so rankled by them.So you are getting through.Otherwise,they would just ignore you.So keep your chin up

[Czarcasm]

Vanillanice, you believe that because ARG has managed through ignorance and artifice to really piss-off a large number of people, he has done a good job of "getting through" to them?
Gee, I'd LOVE to hear your opinion of Hitler!

Vanillanice wrote:

Arg, You know I love you.If you weren't hitting home with your statements,people wouldn't be so rankled by them.So you are getting through.Otherwise,they would just ignore you.So keep your chin up

Heh.

[jazzmine]

vanillanice wrote:

Arg, You know I love you.If you weren't hitting home with your statements, people wouldn't be so rankled by them.So you are getting through. Otherwise, they would just ignore you.So keep your chin up

ummm, yeah... that's it... he's getting through... uh huh

trisha

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He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice - Albert Einstein

[Babar714]

You're freakin' annoying, Adam. You annoy me and many others. Sure, you believe strongly in all this crap, but you're just annoying.

I've gotta say that even though I flame him often, I do have respect for Adam. He has repeatedly stated that he has people's best interests at heart and that he wants to help everyone be "saved."

But it's also true that he will never convert me to his religion. Yes, he is wasting his time arguing religion with me. But I do find it interesting and sometimes enlightening to learn about what others believe, so I hope I haven't driven him away from the board with my sarcastic remarks. I do respect him--it's just his anti-LDS remarks I disagree with.

[Monty]

Snarkberry: I must disagree with you on this individual.

He's not only annoying, he's also a narrow-minded, bigot who's quite proud not only of his ignorance but of how he became that ignorant.

I couldn't care less what faith he follows, but what galls me is his out of hand dismissal and attack on ALL other relgioins. Said religions, you might note, of which he has exactly zero factual knowledge.

He has stated so many times that he will not gain knowledge of those faiths.

You may recall that he accuses me of not having studied the Bible solely because I disagree with nearly every thing he says. Another poster (I think it was Lucky) aptly pointed out to Adam that I have, in fact, study the Bible and that Adam obviously can not have studied it as he hasn't read the thing.

So what we're dealing with here is:
-Ignorance
-Pride in Ignorance
-Intolerance of other's thoughts
-Martyr Syndrome.

I think that pretty much points to a young adult or teenager who is obviously home-schooled by incomptent fundamentlaist fanatic parents.

Home-schooling can be a great thing. In this case, it's a disaster

Monty wrote about Adam:

So what we're dealing with here is:
-Ignorance
-Pride in Ignorance
-Intolerance of other's thoughts
-Martyr Syndrome.

Well, I agree that Adam definitely has some serious problems in tolerating others, and he does seem to be a bit narrow-minded when it comes to religion. But if I can change from the idiot I was (and still sometimes am) into the marvelous example of mature manhood that I am today, there's hope for Adam, too. I think exposure to other religions and philosophies over the internet will do him a world of good if he takes advantage of said exposure.

On the other hand, if he only reads Pentacostal Christian web sites and refuses to listen to others' viewpoints, he'll probably remain the person he is today, only older. It's his call, and I hope we can persuade him to open his mind up a little. It's worth a try.

[Doobieous]

he does seem to be a bit narrow-minded when it comes to religion.

A bit narrow minded? 'Scuse me, but he's just plain ignorant of other religions and he doesnt even know his own religion all that well either (He thinks Catholics aren't christian LMAO). I generally dont bother with him because the only one who can change is him. Fundamentalists rarely ever change. CHange scares them, thats why they say anything that doesn't mesh with their views is heretical or sinful.

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"Raw to the floor like reservoir dogs"
- A.V. Helden

I'm going to try to post without using Scripture. I'll probably be forced to use it at some point, but I can try. anyway, here we go.

I don't think any of you know what being Christian means. Or if you know, you don't truly understand. You say I'm intolerant of other religions. Well, that's my job. There is nothing higher than God. There is no law above His. There is no other God besides the God of the Bible, the God of Abraham, and Isaac, the living God. Any other belief that says otherwise is of Satan, who is the ruler of this earth.

Catholics. Catholics believe in many things that are not in the Bible. They have added so much ritual, and so much emptiness to the faith that it's not even funny. They also go against the very teachings of Jesus. They believe that salvation is based on works. This is directly opposite to what Jesus says. They pray to Mary, and pray to the saints. In doing so, they exalt those humans to the level of Jesus, and the Father. This is also DIRECTLY opposite to what the Bible says. Christians obey, and adhere to ALL of the words of Jesus, and the Father. (Or at least that's their goal in life)

I do not doubt that Catholics, and Mormons, and Jews....etc...love God. Loving God is great. And you may even love Jesus, and that's wonderful. You may even believe what I do, and that's awesome. But you know what? That's not going to get you into heaven. You must walk the walk, and not only talk the talk. Believing in Jesus is the key to heaven, but unless it's on your death bed, then you have to live the life of a Christian. Calling on His name will save you, but then you have to live a holy life. Like it says in Revelation, you must OVERCOME.

I said very early on that there are saved Jews, and Catholics...etc. I'm not backing down from that statement. If you love the Catholic church, and you like the smell of inscence (sp?), and you like to sing those hymns, then that's cool. You can go to mass, but you must not adopt the ideas of that church. You must follow Jesus, and not some Pope. You must confess you sins to JESUS, and NOT some preist in confession. Who gave that priest the power to forgive you? Nobody. He has no power to forgive you. Only your Father in heaven can forgive your sins. Skip confession. Get on your face before the real Father, and tell Him your story.

I am a follower of Jesus. I've read my Bible, and know what it says. Christians are supposed to love, and supposed to be kind. But like the Father, they are supposed to hate sin, and be opposed to all who oppose God. Jesus said, "If you're not for me, then you're against me."

My goodness, I shudder to think of what the world would be like if nobody opposed sin. Satan already rules this planet with an iron grip. I dare say that it's only because of Christians that this world keeps turning 'round. I believe that like Ninevah, God is saving this planet because there are a few left who love Him. Perhaps that's a bit extreme, but it could be true.

Before any of you talk about me, why don't you learn what being a Christian really is. Perhaps if SoxFan were reading this, he could give his input on this post. He may not like my style, which would be understandable. But I bet that he'd agree with what I say.

I think I'm done ranting. I've already lost any chance that one of you might get saved. I may as well be free to speak my mind. I don't know why I'm surprised that you all oppose me. It's what I should expect. And perhaps I should be happy about it, like Paul would be. Who knows.

Adam

Adam wrote:

Catholics. Catholics believe in many things that are not in the Bible. They have added so much ritual, and so much emptiness to the faith that it's not even funny. They also go against the very teachings of Jesus. They believe that salvation is based on works. This is directly opposite to what Jesus says.

And then:

You may even believe what I do, and that's awesome. But you know what? That's not going to get you into heaven. You must walk the walk, and not only talk the talk. Believing in Jesus is the key to heaven, but unless it's on your death bed, then you have to live the life of a Christian. Calling on His name will save you, but then you have to live a holy life. Like it says in Revelation, you must OVERCOME.

(Bolding mine). So, in other words, you aren't saved by works, but you must live the life of a Christian (which implies doing good works) to get saved. Am I missing something here?

Adam, I don't believe most Catholic doctrine either, but that doesn't mean I attack them constantly and condemn them all to hell. The word is toleration. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, too, which you might consider before you give another "hellfire" sermon.

[Falcon]

Adam -

Next time you want to talk about Catholics, read the Catecism first. Please tell me what I believe that's not in the Bible. (And even though I've been nasty before, I am genuinely interested. I'd love to know what part of my faith you think doesn't come from the Bible.) We believe salvation is based on faith AND works. "Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says." James 1:22

Second, only a small group of Catholics "worship" Mary. Most Catholics believe Mary and the saints intercede on our behalf to God. By praying to them, we are asking them to take our prayers to God, and to Jesus. We are not placng them on the same level. (Well, most Catholics, anyway.)

Third, not all Catholics confess to a priest. I am a Catholic, and I have never been to confession. You are confessing your sins to Jesus and to God through the priest.

All in all, Adam, I'm giving you the usual refrain you've heard from Snark and Monty. Read up on the religion before you slam it, dear.

[jazzmine]

Adam,

I was wondering if God is going to send you to hell if there is even one person on this board that will now never be saved because of the way you present religion?

Why do you feel that your arrogance and self-righteousness will not stink in the Lord's nostrils?

Why do you not feel that God wants you to be humble and to "shine" his light through you.

You ask why we don't learn about what being a Christian is before we talk to you about it? You want us to learn the Bible before we discuss it with you.

I have learned about being a Christian. A Pentecostal Christian in fact. I can go head to head with you on the Bible if you like. Seems like a ridiculous, immature confrontation to me, but then...we are talking about Adam, aren't we?

You have ignored every question I've asked you. I have watched you steer completely clear of anyone that seems to have knowledge of the Bible.

You don't want to discuss the Bible. You aren't interested in anyone here being a Christian. You are only interested in being right. In having the last word in.

I know your Bible, I know your religion. I know the teachings. Far be it from me to judge, but I'd say you have some repenting to do to get right with YOUR God.

People find their own way to their own salvation, if they believe they need it. They do not EVER follow someone such as you.

trisha

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He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice - Albert Einstein

[Monty]

Adam: I am now calling you a liar. You've posted on this board before that you have not read the whole Bible and now you're stating above in your last posting that you've read your Bible. Which is it?

Or does it matter to you that bearing false witness is a sin?

[Bluepony]

Good grief, normally I just read through these threads but years of repressed Jesuit education just came exploding out of me after reading Adam's Sermon From the Mount.

Adam, I'm not even going to debate with you over whether Catholics are Christian. You have already demonstrated, through your many "theological" efforts, your complete and almost total ignorance of most facets of Christianity. I am in more respect of the viewpoints of an Imam in Mecca or a Shinto priest digressing on the nature of kami than I am with your uncertain grasp of the concepts of Christianity, much less your ignorance of the basic precepts of Roman Catholicism.

As to your Biblical knowledge, I suggest you pick one up (at your stage it doesn't even matter what version or edition) and begin to know your faith. Try to understand the interplay and blending of Hebrew, Aramaic, and classical Greek translated to Latin, then to English. It's more than just grandiose pronouncements of judgement day and eternal damnation. Scholars of all denominations spend countless years reading these books and THEY do not even come out with half the things that you profess. There is an interesting digression on "free will" in John Stienbeck's, East of Eden involving Chinese Confucian scholars dicussing the Fourth Chapter of Genesis, IMHO one of the most profound statements about God and his relation to man. If, by chance, you can even find some added enlightenment, pick up the Torah and read some of it, go to a Hannukah celebration, listen to the story of the Menorah and understand the meaning of the Festival of Lights. Then you may think twice before you have the audacity to attempt to witness to the Children of the Old Covenant. Watch a Muslim in the beauty of their devotion to prayer. Read a few Suras from the Qur'an. Purify a Shinto shrine, read A Book Of Five Rings by the sword-saint Musashi. You might find some clues in this work by a medieval Japanese samurai that echo the scholastic methods espoused by St. Thomas Aquinas in his Summa Theologica . Knowledge is not an evil thing. "There is no darkness but ignorance." (Shakespeare's Twelfth Night . (Thanks, Zette, for the quote) Get the picture Adam? You're not the only one in this world trying to make sense out of it all. Maybe you might then see that to be Christian is to be understanding of what makes us human. In your Father's house, there are many rooms.

Note: The opinions on this soapbox are not necessarily the opinions of the management, this broadcasting station, my beer buddies, or my dog. Offer void where prohibited by law. Some contents may have settled while handling. Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear to be, write your mother, brush your teeth.....

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"...send lawyers, guns, and money..."

Warren Zevon

[AuraSeer]

I don't really want to harm anyone, or have them harmed on my wishes. But if it were guaranteed not to cause any lasting damage, I might pay money to see Adam smacked in the face with a lead pipe.

Because I do not follow the rules of behavior for his religion, in his eyes I am an evil person who should be eternally damned to Hell. This sort of statement will put a damper on any relationship, so I really don't feel any bond of trust or friendship forming here.

Since this is the Pit, I'll give my honest opinion. Adam is a small-minded fool, not for his intolerance but for his intentional ignorance. If he would learn about another religion before condemning it, he could at least make some pretense at a logical argument. But he refuses to learn anything, claiming that he knows the One True Way, and that any contradictory knowledge is a temptation from the devil.

(In response to this, Adam will deny having claimed to know the Only Truth. But though he may not use those exact words, that is exactly what all his posts have meant.)

If it were up to me, I'd tell him to pack up his God and his Bible, and go bother people on some other part of the Web. But it's not up to me, so I'll continue ignoring his attempts to convert people, and mostly suppressing the urge to flame him for being a closed-minded intolerant jerk.

[tomndebb]

Adam, you have done this before and I have corrected you before and you persist in your error without any attempt to understand the truth. Therefore Monty is accurate. For some reason you believe that there are only nine commandments or that "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor" does not apply to you.

Catholics do not believe that they are saved by works. The last time I pointed this out to you, you claimed that you couldn't debate everything that you posted or some such drivel. If you cannot debate every point that you post, you at least have the moral responsibility to not continue to post lies when they have been pointed out to you.

The Catholic Church does not teach that we are saved by works. (It certainly has never taught that any one can get to heaven on their own merits or efforts.) What the RCC does teach is that, while Paul's statements regarding justification by faith are true, the entire concept of salvation is more complex than simply reciting "I accept Jesus as my personal Savior" one day and then going off to lead as sinful a life as you want because you have been "saved."

You may choose to take one aspect of Paul's teachings out of context and call that the whole of Christianity, but the RCC also believes in following the words of Jesus, Himself: ". . . Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink,I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was in prison and you came to me." Throughout Matthew, Jesus exalts those of righteous action and condemns those who fail to act justly. The RCC teaching has never been that one can earn heaven through works, but that if you are not performing the deeds, your words are hollow and you have never actually accepted the salvation Jesus offers.

I would defy you to quote any doctrine of the RCC that claims anyone can earn their way into heaven with works, but I already know, through your posts, that you are too lazy and malevolent to even try. Most likely you will claim that you don't have the wherewithal to research this point (another fine example of home schooling) or else you will quote some other Catholic basher without looking to see whether or not they are lying.

The rest of your libel is pretty much along the same lines. You spout off nonsense handed to you by others, demonstrating your ignorance and their (and your) malice.

Just what is your church? The "Whole Bible Except-That-Commandment-We-Don't-Like Brotherhood"?


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Tom~

[furt]

adam...since you asked for opinions, I'm gonna give one.

I agree with 98% of your theology. I'm an evangelical christian, bible college graduate (theology major), former full-time youth minister, the whole 9 yards.

And quite honestly, you embarrass the heck out of me.

If you are willing to take some advice from someone who was once much like you and is now a older and rounder, there's two things you're doing wrong.

First, you're in the wrong place. Not the straightdope in particular, but the net in general. This is not the best medium for witnessing. Conveying emotion is difficult, there's the time delay, and not many people are going to make themselves vulnerable on a public forum. It would take weeks and weeks on the net to build the kind of rapport that a good listener can build in in half an hour.
You would do far, far better to spend your time in personal contact with real people. Get involved in prison ministry, nursing homes, the homeless and poor, aids patients, anything. Heck, just go to your pastor and ask how he could use you for the 5-10 hours a week you spend on this board. Not only would your time be more efficiently spent, but you yourself would grow more. I learned more about the spirit of Christ washing toilets in an Aids hospice than I have from any of the arguments I've had with unbelievers.

Secondly, there's too much of YOU. If people get upset because of the gospel message, or get upset because Jesus claimed to be the only way to heaven, those things are fine. Jesus said his message would be offensive, and it is. But a lot of the people flaming around here aren't talking/arguing about waht Jesus said, they're mad about what YOU say. YOU, and not Christ, are the focus. If you're very honest with yourself you'll find that there's more than a little bit of pride at work here. Frankly, you are standing in the way of Christ.

Yes, it is your job to be a witness. But it is not your job to be a witness in such a way that you annoy people, and thus turn them off to the gospel permanently. Look in the Bible and you'll find a a directive about what to do when nobody wants to listen to your message; you wipe the dust off your sandals, and keep on walking.

[Monty]

Furt: I'd venture to say there's not a soul here who's upset at the Gospel message; especially since ol' Adam has yet to preach it.

What a few of us have stated, and I in particular do feel, is that ol' Adam lies, bashes, and trashes. How the heck does that fit in with the Gospel? Perhaps that's the 2% you don't agree with.

[furt]

Monty: There have been several posts that were anti-christian or anti-religion. Not as many as were anti-ARG220, obviously. My point is that Adam's personality and conduct are getting in the way of the message he is trying to convey. I agree with many of his beliefs; but not the place or way in which he is expressing them.

At the risk of losing my credibility with Adam, I feel it necessary to say that Catholicism is one area in which we disagree strongly.

[GLWasteful]

Adam:

You say I'm intolerant of other religions. Well, that's my job.

Cite?

Catholics believe in many things that are not in the Bible. They have added so much
ritual, and so much emptiness to the faith that it's not even funny. They also go against the very teachings of Jesus. They believe that salvation is based on works. This is directly opposite to what Jesus says. They pray to Mary, and pray to the saints. In doing so, they exalt those humans to the level of Jesus, and the Father. This is also DIRECTLY opposite to what the Bible says.

Adam, I asked my wife to take a look at the above quoted passage. She, you see, is a Catholic, and a Catholic that hasn't been involved in any of your nonsense.

She laughed. She also seemed very concerned that there were people out there who felt what you do, as strongly as you seem to. Keep in mind that she hasn't seen any of your tripe to date, and therefore has no preconceived idea as to what you are. Not only are you off in what you say, you also spit it out just like hundreds of bigots before you. If nothing else, get a new schtick.

I said very early on that there are saved Jews, and Catholics...etc.

No, what you did was say that a christian came to your church. You called him a messianic Jew, but he was a christian. More to the point, he was your kind of christian.

I am a follower of Jesus.

And if the above is true, then I want nothing to do with you and your ilk. Because if you are representative of other followers of Jesus, then they are a close minded, mean spirited lot.

I've read my Bible, and know what it says.

You have done no such thing. Nor do you know any such thing.

Christians are supposed to love, and supposed to be kind.

Then what happened to you?

But like the Father, they are supposed to hate sin, and be opposed to all who oppose God. Jesus said, "If you're not for me, then you're against me."

Oh.

I dare say that it's only because of Christians that this world keeps turning 'round.

Y'know, I keep feeding you that old, "Pride goeth before a fall" line. And you keep ignoring it.

Before any of you talk about me, why don't you learn what being a Christian really is.

As has been explained to you several times, some of the folk here know full well what it means to be a Christian. Being someone like you, though... Bah! Who wants that?

I think I'm done ranting.

Anyone else out there want in on the pool that says this is more nonsense?

I've already lost any chance that one of you might get saved. I may as well be free to speak my mind. I don't know why I'm surprised that you all oppose me. It's what I
should expect. And perhaps I should be happy about it, like Paul would be. Who knows.

"Poor, poor me. I try to make a difference, but it never seems to take."

A word of advice, Adam: When you try to set yourself up as a martyr, like you did above, then even those who might be interested in what you are saying are going to be turned off. Because there's nothing that makes people less comfortable than to watch someone try to hammer himself to a cross.

Waste
Flick Lives!

[Falcon]

Waste sez, in response to ARG:

Anyone else out there want in on the pool that says this is more nonsense?

Put me down for $10, Waste. I'm thinking the next round will be Catholic bashing, instead of Mormon bashing. Should be fun - I'd betting ARG will have nothing to say that I haven't already heard before. I'm Catholic, btw. Apparently this means I'm going straight to hell. See y'all there!

[GLWasteful]

I'll save you a seat, Falcon.

Waste
Flick Lives!

[CptHowdy65]

Some of you made good points about the fact that Adam is not turning anyone off of religion, he is turning people off of him, and therefore he could say night is dark and no one would listen or agree ..Adam, the little boy who cried wolf...

I also personally have a problem with people who quote the Bible either out of context OR, they repeat something someone told them....or worse yet, they quote incorrectly to supposedly bolster their lame argumen....

No Adam, you cannot witness if you lie, cheat, and generally piss people off

Also, AuraSeer, a lead pipe would only lead to Olympic medals, home movies, and jail time for a fat "security" person....

Adam, I treat you like a telemarketer - I give you the benefit of having a job, just don't call me during meal times - I ain't buying

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The worst thing that can possibly happen is not be used for something by someone - Kurt Vonnegut

I'm going to write out a long response in the GD Forum. I don't want to get a little note from Lynn saying that I broke the rules and was witnessing in her Pit. Look for my long winded post in "Life in Heaven Part 3, page three.

Adam

[Babar714]

Wow. That is annoying.

[ChrisCTP]

I don't even know why I'm bothering, but here goes.

Adam, this is for you. This is coming to you from an agnostic, you know, one who, for whatever reason, has chosen to refrain from embracing religion. You, sir, are an arrogant, sniping hypocrite. It's already been pointed out that you've alternately claimed to have/not to have read your bible. You've stated that Christians are filled with love and compassion for all mankind, yet you relentlessly display unfounded disgust for people who are not Christian, in fact, even for those who practice other Christian denominations than the one that you practice. And then this little blurb... "I dare say that it's only because of Christians that this world keeps turning 'round." Well, you know what Adam? I think you're full of shit.

I allow people of all different beliefs to describe to me what they've learned, what they believe, how they feel and why they feel that way about the religions they practice. Keep in mind, I have not been able to make a choice about religion that has felt right to me, other than not to make a choice. I do not chastise, berate, or belittle people because of their beliefs or convictions, nor do I hold one group higher than another because I have an easier time believing what they say versus what another group says. I admire and respect all forms of spirituality, and I can only hope to attain the strength, courage, and conviction that I believe it takes to "believe".

So where do you get off, telling us all that God is the way and the light? Because you read it in a book? You read it in your Bible and that makes you the authority. Well, when someone comes along with points to the contrary, because of what they read in their book, then it's logical that they might be right, too.

How dare you call yourself a Christian. Despite my incapacity to choose a religion, I have attended church, both as a child and recently again, in support of my friend's father, a Methodist pastor. The messages I get from going to church are not that I should be attempting to destroy or ridicule another person's belief system, but that I should be compassionate, understanding and love everyone I meet. That's my rule of thumb anyway. I'm having a really hard time of it with you. You have proven yourself to be the poorest excuse for a "Christian" that I've ever had the opportunity to come across.

I congratulate you on your strength to embrace spirituality, and I applaud your conviction. The fact still remains that you have done little more then make demands of other board members to come over to your side, to abandon their feelings on the matter and just trust in what you know to be "true".

When you were asked to challenge your own beliefs, you questioned how you were supposed to do that. How about attending all the different places of worship in your area or making appointments with the pastors/ministers/preachers of some of those places to have a theological discussion? Ask them why they believe what they do, find out exactly how their particular brand of faith differs from yours and how its similar. How about reading the books that Bluepony suggested? How about pulling that stick out of your ass and at least making an attempt to be openminded?

You're a human being. I think I remember you saying that you were born-again, or something to that effect. That says to me that you weren't always a Christian, or at least that you didn't spend much time spewing random bible passages at people. You must have had other hobbies, other interests, at one point. So, in keeping with the original post, why don't you save your bible for the people who actually WANT to hear about it, and spend your time here discussing your other interests, asking and trying to find solutions to questions that are of a non-religious nature. You've made your point clear, obviously nobody's going to change your mind on the topic of religion. Now it's time for you to realize that you aren't changing anyone else's mind, either.

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Veni, Vidi, Visa ... I came, I saw, I bought.

Babar: I had planned on posting a very long message, that included much witnessing, over in GD. That is why I didn't post the message here, because nobody, especially me, is supposed to witness in the Pit.

ChrisCTP: Have you read my post in Great Debates yet? If not, I think you should.
There is only one God. There is only one way. Even if I wasn't Christian, then this would still be true. Just think about it for a second. Only one religion can be right. And of course, every one of them thinks they are correct. Fortunatly, the Bible is the key, and has all the answers, ans shows the only way to eternal life, and a holy life here on earth.

I'm not going to debate anymore. My eyes have been opened since reading Furt's post, and going to God with it.

It's all about Jesus. It's not about who's right, and who's wrong. It's not about changing minds, it's more about changing hearts. You said that my mind will never be changed regarding religion Chris. And I thank my God for that. I thank Him that I've built my faith on the Rock of Christ Jesus.

For those of you who don't know, including ChrisCTP, I'm 21 years old. I've been saved (born again) since I was 7 years old. Obviously, I didn't know much about anything before coming to Christ. I've been a Christian my whole life. And I'll BE a Christian, all the rest of my days.

Adam

[SkeptiJess]

To Adam, from Chris: "I think I remember you saying that you were born-again, or something to that effect. That says to me that you weren't always a Christian, or at least that you didn't spend much time spewing random bible passages at people. You must have had other hobbies, other interests, at one point."

Not really, Chris. Adam was born to Pentecostal parents and raised in that church. He "became saved" at age 7. I doubt that he's ever had an original thought and I haven't seen any evidence of hobbys or interests other than his extreme Xtianity, either. He doesn't even like to read, for Pete's sake. He was also home schooled, which goes a long way towards explaining why he is the way he is. In fact, I consider him a perfect poster child against home schooling. BTW, Chris, while I agree with pretty much everything you said, I'm afraid it was wasted effort on your part. As I said once before (in the words of my father): The boy has a head like a bent shit-can lid.

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Jess
Full of 'satiable curtiosity

[SkeptiJess]

Thanks, Jeffery -- I did read Adam's apology after I posted the above (I read the board top to bottom). Adam stated a while back that he was homeschooled in grades 9 - 12.

[Monty]

Well, I'd say I stated more that I was wary of it and hoped it was sincere. I see from Adam's last posting above, it wasn't.