I came across Cecils answer why there is an H in Jesus H Christ at
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_033
with a link to comment on the answer that brought me here. Personally I don’t know what IHS has to do with JHC, but I am under the impression that H is for Horus. If there was a person who was an inspriration for the Jesus version of Christianity his name was more likely Yeshua and when you combine the Yes of Yeshua with the us of Horus you get Yes-us or as we would say today Jesus. Christianity is a pagan religion. Catholicism wasn’t a mix of a “God’s religion” with paganism. It was a mix of the pagan godman religions that could be referred to as Christianity. Whether or not there was an actual person, Yeshua, that modern Christianity was inspired by, the entire religion itself is founded in paganism, not just the holidays. Pagan meant villager. The pagan religions were the commoner religions. The commoners had been influenced by both Judaism’s mythology and Egyptian mythology. Modern Christianity is more strongly influenced by Egyptian mythology than by the mythology of the Jews. The astronomical events near the time of King Herrod’s death seem to have been the astrological inspiration for the creation of modern Christianity. According to Egyptian mythology Meri who was married to Jo-Sep had a virgin birth of Horus in either a stable or cave amongst animals under a star. Meri and Jo-Sep fled from the evil Serpent Herrut who was opposed to Horus. Now you might see why the astronomical events near the death of the evil king Herrod could begin to inspire the formation of a modern Christian religion. It was probably based on what was originaly a joke(haha that Herrod he must be Herrut!). Meri and Jo-Sep were visited by three maji bearing gifts. That’s where the three comes from in the Christian tradition. Later Horus ascends in status among the gods to inherit the legions of Ra. Thus Horus was a sun god. The sun god or the sun was represented by many by the Celtic cross which may go back as much as 10 thousand years having been originally an actual device used by nomads to navigate based on shadows case by it from the sun. So Horus Christo(Christo was a title for Horus) variations such as Harry Krishna were sometimes depicted as an ascending person in a crucified posture corresponding to the symbol for the rising sun. Krishna is at times depicted as Crucified with an arrow(which is a small spear) piercing his torso the same as Jesus. As far as I can tell the only thing that is unique about the Jesus resurrection-ascension is that he had a crown of thorns. Eventually the Isis religion grew roots in Egypt and given their political practice of Synchrotism they decided to adjust their teaching absorbing the identity of Meri into Isis. Its like telling someone you don’t worship a different god, you just worship the same god by a different name. This way you can unify the religions to gather others into your congregations. The new Osiris-Isis-Horus religion probably the first trinity had Osiris killed by Set(Satan) who was female(so the devils a girl haha kidding) and his body broken and scattered across the land. Isis collected up the parts and resurrected him. Eventually he returns to the underworld but not before impregnating her. As he returned to the underworld he becomes capable of reincarnation and so enters the unborn child who becomes Horus. Thus the son was one with the father. Meri then was both the Mother and wife of Horus through Osiris. So it makes sense that both the mother of Jesus and the alleged wife of Jesus would have the name Mary. The sacrament was instituted by the Egyptians where the broken bread and wine was made into bits of the broken body and blood of Osiris. The resurrecting magic of Isis would then apply to those who took the sacrament to give them eternal life after death. So titles of Horus being Osiris included the way and the life and no one would come to the father but by him. The dying resurrecting godman struck such a popularity with people that surrounding religions even rewrote some of their gods to reflect that very mythology. In fact Egypt wasn’t the only ones practicing Synchrotism. as an example Baccus was rewritten as Dionysus who had traits in common with Osiris and Jesus. So this entire group of dying rising godmen from which Jesus gets his traits are referred to as Osiris-Dionysus for short. Do a web search on that term to find more info than I am giving. Since Jesus is a dying rising sun god made in the fashion of Horus and Methras of course he would be given the winter solstice birthday of such gods. It also makes since then that Christians have him returning from the east and why he would have a similarity to Quetzalcoatl even though so far displaced because Quetzalcoatl was also a sun god. This should explains why Catholicism/Modern Christianity has pagan holidays. Christianity didn’t just incorporate paganism. It IS paganism.
I don’t have time to answer this torrent of logical fallacies, folk etymologies, unestablished assumptions, and stale propaganda, but it would be more impressive if it were better spelled, and if you had been paying attention when your teachers brought up the subject of paragraphing.
This tired nonsense has been around a long time. I have an 1827 edition of the Diegesis: Being a Discovery of the Origin, Evidences, and Early History of Christianity, by Robert Taylor , (or the Devil’s Chaplain, as he was known) which spouts exactly the same twaddle, although he did at least have the merits of literateness.
He (Taylor) set up a Christian Evidence Society and lectured in London pubs dressed in elaborate vestments, attacking the Anglican liturgy and the barbarities of the Establishment for what he called its “Pagan creed”. At this time blasphemy was a criminal offence against the Anglican faith “by law established”, and he was sentenced to a year in gaol. In his cell he wrote The Diegesis, attacking Christianity on the basis of comparative mythology and attempting to expound it as a scheme of solar myths.
In other words since you don’t have a valid counter argument you are just going to try to insult me. Yeah real logical all right.
Not so much that as “I can’t be bothered to deal with such obvious nonsense, but I’ll give you a pointer anyway. You’ll have much more success getting reasonable responses to your ravings if you pay even half an ounce of attention to layout.”
A sentiment I heartily agree with.
But he has a point - so far no one has truly refuted his claims.
As an aside though, some cites might be in order from the OP, just to help verify the claims.
And I agree, paragraphs would help a little.
The expression “Jesus H Christ” proves the OP’s hypothesis about as much as the expression “Jesus F—king Christ” proves the hypothesis that JC had children with Mary Magdalene.
No, I simply don’t wish to waste a couple of hours doing the necessary scutwork to refute falsehoods that have whiskers down to their toes, especially when they come from someone who’s merely parroting what he’s seen elsewhere, in a thread that’s going to be shut down or moved to another section as soon as the moderators see it, seeing that it is not in any way a sensible reply to the “Straight Dope” column in question.
Life’s too short.
DavidWaite. Welcome to the boards, and thanks so much for providing a link to Cecil’s column. This puts you in the above average group.
But, since you aren’t really interested in talking about why the “H” in Jesus H. Christ, but rather want to debate a side issue–"What does the “H” mean in IHS, then you are probably better off debating this in our forum called Great Debates.
I’ve moved the thread there from Comments on Cecil’s Column. (Sorry, bib–no hard feelings)
Samclem GQ moderator
Well, around here when someone makes an assertion on a debatable topic, such as your little essay is jampacked full of, it’s customary to provide cites. Start with your Egyptian mythology, which in general has very little to do with anything I’ve ever encountered about Egyptian beliefs. The fact that you can jam elements of two names together to produce something vaguely sounding like a third proves nothing logically. “Horus Christo” is simply sort-of-Greek for “Horus the Anointed” and may well have been a title of Horus, but not one I’ve ever encountered. And its only connection to “Harry Krishna” (actually the chant Hare Krishna) is that they use some of the same letters when rendered in the Roman alphabet. (Harry Krishna was half brother to Rama Dan, the Hindu sage who was the secred founder of Islam! ;))
All in all, it’s the most amazing mishmash of syncretic fusions of disparate elements of different religious systems I’ve seen. Provide a little proof for your assertions, and we may have a debatable topic here. Otherwise, you differ not at all from the drive-by witnessers who tell us that we’re all going to Hell for unspecified reasons.
Maybe not between you and bib, Sam. On the other hand, you had probably avoid the GD Moderators for a while.
To the OP:
The confusion between IHS and JHC is only in the view of those who know no history of Greek and Art.
A common abbreviation placed on artwork in the Eastern Mediterranean was to put down the first and last letters of the person’s name in Greek, naturally.
In Greek, the name we render Jesus is '[symbol]IHSOUS[/symbol], (IESOUS). Note that the First two and last letters would appear in Greek as [symbol]IHS[/symbol]. However, over the centuries, the final letter, the sigma, came to be made, on occasion, to look like a capital C. Thus, on some ikons, we find the letters [symbol]IH[/symbol]C. Later still, people using the Roman alphabet began using J in place of I when the letter was more of a consonantal “y” sound. Enough people are aware of that to be able to read [symbol]IH[/symbol]C as JHC.
(To add to the confusion over the years, other people, knowing that the final sigma, regardless whether it was written [symbol]S[/symbol] or written C, was the Greek version of “S” and they began copying the [symbol]IHS[/symbol] letters in Latin speaking areas as IHS (later JHS). Then, still later, peoiple who were unacquainted with the practice of using the first and last letters of a name began to think that the letters were an abbreviation, so they began “translating” that to mean Jesus Hominum Salvator, meaning Jesus, Savior of Men, which has its own folk etymologies.)
Your claims regarding Egyptian mythology are entirely false. There were several Egyptian gods who had names that have been translated in English as Horus, but regardless whether you are talking about the earliest creator god or about the son of Osiris and Isis or about the son of Geb and Nut, no Egyptian god had parents named Meri and Jo-Sep. (Even this story is silly on the face of it, trying to insert a Egyptian woman with a name that vaguely resembles the English “Mary” into the story when the original Greek Gospels rendered Mary’s name as [symbol]Mariam[/symbol] (Mariam), which is a pretty good Greek imitation–allowing for regional variances–of the Hebrew name Miriam, but has nothing to do with either the invented Egyptian name Meri or the English word Mary.
I really don’t have the energy to demonstrate all the errors in Egyptian mythology from the rest of the post, but suffice it to say that origins of Christianity (and the real religion of Egypt) are sufficiently well known that Robert Taylor’s imagination has no bearing on either topic.
You want I should put it in GQ? Seriously.
No they aren’t.
Apparently I know more about Egyptian mythology than you. Did you actually think I was just making this up? lol:
Meh sometimes said Meri, and Seb sometime said Sep with the title Jo making it Jo-Sep are some deities you should do some research on. Just for fun here’s a picture of a crucifix of HORUS, not jesus:
http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/Image:HarpocratesCrucifiedDetail.JPG
As for IHS
S has nothing do do with C even in greek where everyone would have known it would have been Chi not Sigma. So it was no mistake. Since chi has nothing to do with sigma I thing that someone changed symbols from IHS to IHC to change it from meaning Jes for Jesus to JHC with the explicit intent to infer that Jesus did have another name that started with an H. Thats what I meant by I don’t know what IHC has to do with JHC, I was infering that it had nothing directly to do with it. Someone changed the symbol to change the meaning to pass on a secret to those who could figure it out.
Typed to fast. It should read
Since chi has nothing to do with sigma I think that someone changed symbols from IHS to IHC to change it from meaning Jes for Jesus to JHC with the explicit intent to infer that Jesus did have another name that started with an H. Thats what I meant by I don’t know what IHS has to do with JHC, I was infering that it had nothing directly to do with it. Someone changed the symbol to change the meaning to pass on a secret to those who could figure it out.
Well, that explains it all! The Illuminati at work again, obfuscating what we thought we knew. Clearly, when we place this argument into symbolic logic, using equations of n order, it will all come clear!
Not at all.
I think you copied it from someone else who made it up and you were too enamored of his prose to discover that he was blowing smoke.
OK, I did, indeed, find that Seb was a name given to Geb (or Keb) in later versions of Egyptian mythology. However, in the later stories in which the name Geb has changed to Seb, Seb is never the father of any god named Horus. (I have never seen evidence for a “Jo-” prefix ever being added to the name, by the way. It would be interesting if you could provide a reference.)
Beyond that, we still have a problem with “Meri,” a man’s name that appears in various testimonies of court officers, but never as a goddess.
The picture that you claim is that of Horus may, indeed, be an image of that god. Given that the elder Horus is represented as a falcon, that would explain the fact that the objects projecting out from the vertical appear to be outstretched wings rather than arms tied to a cross.
You should really quit when you are so far behind.
The Greek Chi ([symbol]C[/symbol]) is not even a part of this discussion.
Note the lettering on this ikonic image of Jesus Christ. On the upper left (as we look at it) are the characters that appear to be IC and on the upper right are the characters that appear to be XC. They are, indeed, the Greek characters, Iota Sigma on the left and Chi Sigma on the right. They are the first and last letters for IESOUS CHRISTOS, in Greek: [symbol]IHSOUS CRISTOS[/symbol] (or, in the later Greek period from which this ikon is taken [symbol]IH[/symbol]C[symbol]OU[/symbol]C[symbol] CRI[/symbol]C[symbol]TO[/symbol]C, just exactly as I described in my earleir post.
Note that I am not arguing whether some Egyptian beliefs could not have influenced later Christian imagery or even mythology; I am simply pointing out that if there is a connection, it has not been demonstrated by the errors you have posted.
(The explanation for JHS was not directed to you, particularly, but was thrown in for those readers who might have wondered about the connection between the IHC and JHS images.)
No, you just have to great a confirmation bias to bother to look up what I’ve told you.
Yes he is.
“The right eye of Horus, or the Sun, was called the cow of Hathor. In Chapter XVII of the Book of the Dead, the cow Meh-urt, is called ‘the Eye of Ra’ while in Chapter CIX the sun is represented as a spotted calf when Sibu (Seb) its father was a bull and Hathor a heifer.”
When the identity of Horus was absorbed into Ra and according to myth he inhereted his leagons, the identity of Meh was absoarbed into Hathor and Seb became the father of Horus.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~wimduz/astro/hazor1.htm
In hebrew Jo meant god or lord so Jo-Sep means god Sep. As for a reference try the meaning of all hebrew based names that start with Jo:
http://www.thinkbabynames.com/starting/1/Jo
But its also a pronunciation of Mew which was definitely female. Men don’t have utters, aren’t called mothers and don’t give birth!
[quote]
The picture that you claim is that of Horus may, indeed, be an image of that god. Given that the elder Horus is represented as a falcon, that would explain the fact that the objects projecting out from the vertical appear to be outstretched wings rather than arms tied to a cross.
[/quoe]
A falcon or a dove which explains the Jesus baptism and dove story. However, the reason the bird and Horus have their wings/arms outstretched is that the cross shape was a symbol for the sun and the god Horus through Ra and their right eye was a sun god. As for this crucifix it actually is a crucifix as he is fastened to a post!
You are the one who is behind.
It is so as I brought it up.
You missed the point. The C wasn’t a mistake of C for Sigma as they knew it would have been Chi. The replasing of Sigma with C or Chi was an intentional change of the initials so that IHC would be a statement that H was an initial for another name of Jesus. HORUS
There have been no errors on MY part. You just don’t know as much about this stuff as I do.
That is a long way around to express your opinion.
IF you will take the time to study the Old Testament of the Bible in general and the New Testament in particular with an objective attitude you just might find that most of the self identified “Christian Sects” are just Sects that do not really believe. Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Let’s keep it simple, and see what the commonly accepted etymology of “Joseph” is, shall we? Every place I’ve been to uses some derivation of “The Lord Will Increase.”
Sometimes, things are just as they appear.
In hebrew Jo meant god or lord so Jo-Sep means god Sep. As for a reference try the meaning of all hebrew based names that start with Jo
[/QUOTE]
So does “Jonah” mean “The Lord ‘Nah?’”
Does Job mean “The Lord ‘b?’”