I’m not sure where to post this thread. Chose GQ by default, but it could go in GD, the Pit, IMHO or MSPIMS. Mods, move if you think appropriate.
I just heard on the radio that Fred Phelps’ fiercely homophobic Westboro Baptist Church – http://www.adl.org/special_reports/wbc/default.asp (I can’t link to the church’s actual site because of the Board’s “hate sites” rule) – is planning to protest several local high schools in Tampa that are holding gay-awareness events. Well, that’s not surprising, but they mentioned that Westboro has already been protesting military funerals, of U.S. service personnel killed in Iraq or Afghanistan. Which reminded me of something I heard a couple of months ago while listening to a local rock station, 97.9, 98 Rock. – Westboro was planning to protest the funeral of a local sergeant who had just been killed. 98 rock negotiated a compromise where they would leave the funeral alone in exchange for interviewing a Westboro spokeswoman on the air. And listening to her . . . Well, it did not appear that she represented a church of principled pacifists who opposed all wars. Nor did they seem to have any particular moral objection to this particular war. Nor were they alleging the dead soldier had been homosexual. Near as I can figure, they thought it appropriate to protest the funeral of any American soldier killed in action, just because those soldiers are serving a governmnet that tolerates homosexuality. Also there seemed to be some “End Times” thinking mixed in, plus the idea that this war is God’s punishment for America’s sins. Near as I can figure. Does anybody know anything more about this? It all seems very strange, even by religious-homophobe standards.
Make a search about Fred Phelps. There has been some threads on this topic in the past, and one in particular in the Pit, written by a poster whose friend’s husband’s funerals was targeted for a picket (eventually they didn’t picket it, but the pregnant widow did receive insulting phone calls from Phelps’ friends).
As far as I understand it, God get the soldiers killed because the US don’t ask policy allow homosexuals to enlist.
The proper way to think about Phelps and his “church” is to realize that they have absolutely nothing to do in any way with any of the recognized professed principles of Christianity. The only principles that Phelps promulgates are the ones that happen to a) fit his personal hatreds, and b) get his name and the name of his “church” on the news. Period.
Trying to reconcile Phelps and Westboro Baptist with any flavor of legitimate Christianity is an exercise in both futility and frustration.
I can at least understand their thinking – some Dopers, no doubt, also consider homosexuality a sin against God.
But how does that justify upsetting the families of soldiers killed in action? Neither the soldiers nor their bereaved had anything to do with setting the “dont ask, don’t tell” policy.
My guess: This is a cynical ploy for attention. Any form of public protest is a bid for attention, of course. But in this case, Westboro Baptist is singling itself by doing something nobody else does. Antiwar activists do not protest military funerals, that I’ve ever heard of. Neither do such few outspoken Islamist radicals as we have in this country. Westboro gets this particular spotlight all to itself. Of course it gets people mad at them – but there’s no such thing as bad publicity, is there? The Westborites get a chance to remind people that they’re here, they’re anti-queer, get used to it.
An army sergeant from a Mass. town 20 miles from Boston was killed in Iraq a few months ago and a couple of the Westboro baptists flew to his town to picket the funeral. Yes, they go all over the country to do this. Reports say that they TRY to get attacked by their ideological opponents so that they can sue the towns for failing to protect them. They post their activities on their hate-filled blob.
They got an unwanted police escort from Boston Logan Airport to the funeral site at one of the oldest churches (Congregational-United Church of Christ) in the nation (1635), They were relegated to a small fenced area of the narrow pre-colonial street, for protection from the crowd. From there they waved their signs and exercised their right to free speech, in front of the birthplace of Elbridge Gerry, an early Mass. governor/US vice-president/signer of the Declaration of Independence. How ironic.
The Boston Mounted Police came to the town to assist in “crowd control”. There had never been such an outpouring of “support” for the sergeant, father of two small children, as there was by the townspeople.
The “baptists” spewed ther vitriol, calling the wife a whore and the church a whorehouse, etc., but the crowd generally bit their tongues and ignored them, and the p.a. system set up for the overflow crowd drowned them out.
What made the day for me was the mounted police surrounding them and giving the horses’ asses a fine view of the other horses’ asses.
“Marblehead Forever, God Bless That Dear Old Town. May she never shame her noble ancestry.” And thanks, Mom, for teaching Sunday School classes to me there.
There’s also a group of bikers that have responded to the so-called Baptists. Whenever Phred and Co announce that they’re picketing, the bikers go as well, and rev their engines to drown out the hate that Phred and Co are spewing.
Well, in most of the locations involved, the protest itself is cordoned off a certain distance away from where the actual service/interment is being conducted. At some of the sites, it has been bagpipers instead.
Being as I live in Topeka, Kansas, which Phelps and his church call home, I have watched over the years as their pickets have grown uglier and uglier. The WBC is an exception to the rule that “If you ignore them they will go away”. With Fred and Co. they just ratchet things up until one can’t ignore them.
Back in the early 90’s I stood close to them, as a counter protestor. They use vile and obscene language to get a rise out of people. Ever hear a little old lady told “You’re wearing a red skirt to hide the blood coming out of your rectum!“ ? I have. The WBC claimed it was damaged by a bomb, and that that justifies their picketing of the funerals of soldiers, many of whom were killed by explosive devices. Yet they themselves have physically attacked people, such as the minister of the church I was a member of at the time. Came onto our church property, the lawn, to do it too.
The following two links are to items from the Topeka Capital-Journal. The first appeared about two weeks ago, the day after the funeral of a soldier killed in Iraq. The second is a page of letters to the editor, scroll down to the next to the last one, it’s about the same funeral. SORRY, it takes a free registration to read them, but if anyone is leery of that I can and will get them reprints by snail mail.
Both items mention the motorcycle veterans group. Said group always checks with families first, to see if their presence is welcome. In this case it was.
Seems to me that the scene of the crime was contaminated by the actions of Tim Phelps, but that’s just me. They use this incident as justification for God to kill American soldiers with bombs.
As I type there seems to be a problem on at least part of their webiste. Whenever I try to access their fliers about picketing soldier’s funerals it is blocked, but not if it’s some other item on their website, or fliers about other types of picketing. This is new, it wasn’t happening this morning.
Wow, I can’t imagine anyone behaving that callously at a funeral. If I was a grieving family member I’m not sure how much restraint I would have under such stress. I also don’t understand why the police are there ahead of time. The protesters must apply for some kind of permit. Don’t know. I would certainly bill them for the officer’s time before issuing a permit.
I also find the claim that they have conducted 20,000 protests (per the ADL article) hard to believe.
It may be exaggerated by some factor. But it is possible, if only barely.
They started in early 1992. Call that fourteen rounded years. With an average of four pickets a day that could reach 20000. See, on weekends especially the group breaks up into teams, to cover more ground, so to speak. And on Sunday the WBC hits a lot of churches. On 8th St, here in Topeka, I once saw one team go from Assumption Catholic(9:30 AM Mass) to Grace Episcopal Cathedral(10:30 AM service) to St. John’s Lutheran(11:00AM service). That’s three right there, and who knows how many others with the other teams?
I attend Grace while my parents attend St. John’s, and my father and I have a joke. “Did you get the varsity today, or just the B team?” We use those terms to refer to the size of the group our repective churches got.
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