I'm joining the Navy: Advice on Rating

[HPL]

A month or so ago I decided to join the Navy and started the Process at the local recruiter. After getting pretty much all the Paperwork done, I went to MEPS on Tuesday, passed my physical and despite various issues, got a 96 on my ASVAB(though I studied a bit).

When I went to the Navy office there, they put me with a Master Chief who was trying to sell me on the Nuclear Tech Program. It does sound interesting and I'm seriously considering it. However, CTI(Intelligence) sounds interesting as well.

The problem is, nobody has told me much about CTI. I know I have to take another test to be eligable.

Both apparently have 10K and up bonuses and both have a promotion to E-4 upon finishing school("A" school for Nuc, not sure for CTI), since I'll be starting at E-3.

Nuclear apparently has quick advancement, but CTI might also. Again, the problem is that I haven't been able to talk to anyone there about the advantages of CTI(assuming I can pass the test). I'm interested in Physics/Chemistry, though I wouldn't mind the chance to learn a few foreign languages either.

Do any Navy people on this board know enough about CTI to help me? Or enough about both to make a comparison?

I still have some paperwork that needs to come in(I'm told there's a nearly 100% chance of getting them, it's only a matter of when) so I haven't signed the contract yet or actually enlisted. That'll likely happen early in 2006 so I have a week or two to decide.

[OtakuLoki]

I know squat about the various CT rates.

I'm a former Nuc MM. One thing in favor of the Nuc ratings is that you'll be in a field where the class divide between officers and enlisted is a lot less than it is in other rates. If you think you might have problems with authority - this would be a bit better for you. It's stressful, and rewarding, I found. But it's a good grounding in a lot of basic engineering, too.

As for advancement: I knew several seven year chiefs in the Nuc field. It can be very rapid.

Of course most of them had re-upped along the way for an automatic E-5 (the hardest promotion in the Nuc field is from E-4 to E-5.) but if you're wanting to make chief, it's the way to go. Also I knew a number of people who were transferred out of the Nuc program to go to either NECP or Canoe U.

[Frank]

Get every single promise made to you in writing. Every single one.

That's the only advice I have.

[chique]

CTI is Cryptologic Technician, Interpreter, which means you'll end up in Monterrey, CA learning a foreign language. Upon graduation you will spend much of your on-duty time wearing headphone listening to people speaking that language or, occasionally, reading and translating written work. As a member of the CT field you will be called a mushroom (you work in a big building with no windows, are kept in the dark, and are fed a lot of shit). Your shore duty stations are limited to the language you speak. Someone who speaks French can go to Europe or Africa; someone who speaks Chinese spends most of his or her time in Asia; someone who speaks Spanish gets stationed in and around the Caribbean; someone who speaks Arabic gets to play in sand.

The CT field works closely with, among other organizations, the NSA, which is never, EVER protrayed as it truly is on ANY television program or spy/action thriller. The information you hear as a linguist is all copied down and passed up the chain to someone in a DC office who puts the vast majority of all the stuff you painstakingly copied into a burn bag for destruction.

CTIs often end up with degrees in foregn language or linguistics, and can end up working for the federal government, often at State. The bad news is that if you're thinking of a Peace Corps-type career down the road you should re-think any military position that includes words like "top secret" or "classified".

It's good work if you can get it. You'll be at a desk ("pos", for position) in front of receiving and recording devices for your entire shift. People are accepted into the nuke or CT fields because they're smarter than the average recruit. The only major downside is the odd duty schedule, but even that's often easier than other fleet positions. One of the more common schedules at shore sites is 3-3-3-96 (three day watches, three mid watches, three eve watches, four days off), which is great if you're in an interesting area as you have plenty of time to relax or sight-see. Not sure about duty assignments at sea, though I'd assume there's much less time off.

[sailorspook]

Hi! I'm in Monterey right now training to be a CTI. (Chinese) Beats the hell out of what I've heard of the nuke program, IMO. Here's what I know so far (Bear in mind that I am but a lowly E-3, and have no experience with the actual job):

You need to take one more test to qualify, the DLAB. This measures your ability to learn a language, and to be accepted to the rate, you need around a 110. Once you get to Monterey, there are four primary languages just about all of us go into: Chinese, Arabic, Persian-Farsi, and Russian. Secondary lanuages are Spanish and Hebrew. You're out of luck if you were thinking of Japanese or Swahili or something.
Our language assignment Chief will try to give you your favorite of the primary languages. The course of instruction lasts 63 weeks, except for Russian. You will have no idea what language you'll have until you get there.

The atmosphere is fairly relaxed. So long as you show up on time, look respectable, and do well in class, no one will bother you. It's really best to do CTI if you're in love with the idea of learning a language - you need something to keep your motivation up. Oh, and no one at boot camp will know anything about the CT rates either. When you do enlist, check out the Bonus payment schedule on About.com. The month you ship out determines the money you get.

Best of luck!

[aruvqan]

<channeling mrAru>

If you want to travel for pleasure outside the US, *neither* nuke nor CTI is good ... what he said about any classification that says top secret or classified means they *really* dont want you in a position where you can accidently or on purpose give out any information, no matter how outdated it actually is [within reason] to any current or foreign enemies. CTIs can travel a bit more easily than nukes, but most nuke ratings require written permission from the CHief of Naval Operations for travel to any of the former soviet republics, and if you have an incredible yearning to visit Kyzyl in Tanu Tuva, you are shit out of luck ... Nukes are absolutely prohibited from visiting behind the bamboo curtain and there are some pretty draconian restrictions for certain third world countries. This applies after you are out, as well as when you are still in. Although the restrictions are not typically enforced for people who have either retired or served their hitch they can be enforced, and may include prison sentances of upward of 10 years and fines upward of $50KUS ... CTIs dont have it nearly so draconian.


As for nuke pwoer school I recommend that you have both physics and chemistry if you are going to consider it. It is nowhere near as abusive towards the students as it was when mrAru went... half of his class failed [8406] and was sent to fleet to become nuke waste. The thought at that time was to pressure cook the students so they wouldnt explode when they got into a real life situation... Also the mortality rate among students is down significantly, they were losing one a week [yep, really truely dead] most were dying in motorcycle accidents, though they did have their share of both suicides and homicides ...

Another thing to consider is the career 'burn out rate' of nukes. Of the people he knew as navy nukes over 80% do no and will not work in the civillian power industry, and want nothing to do in any way shape or form with nuclear power or the regulations that go along with it.

</channeling mrAru>

Speaking as a spouse, it sucked that I couldnt travel to a lot of the places I wanted to go because he wouldnt be able to come with me...and I did have a security check of my own, and at various times were under surveillance because of navy related crap [a roomie was suspected of having stolen some document, and at one time my first husband who was also a nuke was accused of doing some stupid bit of saboutage while the boat was in the shipyards]

[OtakuLoki]

Originally Posted by aruvqan

<channeling mrAru>

As for nuke pwoer school I recommend that you have both physics and chemistry if you are going to consider it. It is nowhere near as abusive towards the students as it was when mrAru went... half of his class failed [8406] and was sent to fleet to become nuke waste. The thought at that time was to pressure cook the students so they wouldnt explode when they got into a real life situation... Also the mortality rate among students is down significantly, they were losing one a week [yep, really truely dead] most were dying in motorcycle accidents, though they did have their share of both suicides and homicides ...

</channeling mrAru>

Things had calmed down a bit since then. My class [9001] had a 70% graduation rate. We had no suicides in training, either. There were a couple of accidents, but not really bad ones. (Of course part of that was accomplished by promulgating an order that one needed a special request chit signed by the command to purchase a motorcycle, or park one on base.) But still, accept that the Nuc field, between A school, Nuc school, and prototype will weed about 50%. I wonder what it's like now that it's coed.

However, being Nuc Waste isn't exactly a hellish existence. I knew a guy who got deNuc'ed and ended up transferred to the PHM squadron in Key West. A couple of them ended up being promoted pretty quickly, too. There's this - a Nuc is usually going to be towards the upper end of ability for most other rates. (Not counting things like CT's, or ST's.)

[HPL]

Originally Posted by sailorspook

Once you get to Monterey, there are four primary languages just about all of us go into: Chinese, Arabic, Persian-Farsi, and Russian. Secondary lanuages are Spanish and Hebrew. You're out of luck if you were thinking of Japanese or Swahili or something.!

Well, I assumed Farsi, Arabic and Chinese, just due to our likely/actual enemies. Russian suprises me a little considering the cold war is over.

Hebrew as well, considering I didn't realize we had a lot of interest in going to war with Isreal(or spying on Jewish community centers). Spanish I can see though, considering it would be useful all over Latin America.

[Declan]

Originally Posted by HPL

Well, I assumed Farsi, Arabic and Chinese, just due to our likely/actual enemies. Russian suprises me a little considering the cold war is over.

It may be cause Russian is a legacy enemy , but they do support Irans nuclear industry , kept up sales contracts up to the last minute with Iraq , and they are still a nuclear power , that alone makes listening in on their conversations important.

Hebrew as well, considering I didn't realize we had a lot of interest in going to war with Isreal(or spying on Jewish community centers). Spanish I can see though, considering it would be useful all over Latin America.

Bear in mind , that we need some Israeli posters to chime in , they may not be able to do domestic surveillance , in which case a freindly power that can only do foreign surveillance does the deed , as well it keeps em honest.

Declan

[chique]

One more thing that should be mentioned...

As a nuke you *will* be "haze grey and underway". After your schooling, which will take 12-18 months, you will be sent to either a sub or a ship and will be attached to it for some time. Your next duty will be another ship or sub. Your third duty will be CONUS shore station where you may either end up handing out basketballs in MWR or at a recruiting station or as an instructor in Groton. Those who are in the bubblehead community will do a better job explaining that rotation than I can.

As a CT your duty stations will be a little more varied. After 12-18 months of schooling in Monterrey and (if they haven't changed it) San Angelo, TX, you are equally likely, depending on language, to wind up in Rota, Spain (which is, as far as I'm concerned, the single best duty station in the US Navy), ship's company out of Norfolk, or Diego Garcia. The CT rotation is "two out, one in". "Out" is either ship or overseas; in is CONUS. Once you return to CONUS there are many places where you can continue to actually work in your rate, something not always possible in purely sea-going rates.

[dbuzman]

Unless they changed it, CTI's can also get stationed in Okinawa Japan. I was a CTO and we had CTI's (and CTT's and CTA's) in Okinawa. You could also get Seoul, Korea, there is a joint command that had people from Army and Navy doing CTI type stuff. Unless some of these places aren't in use anymore since I got out in 95.

[Mr. Goob]

Welcome aboard.

I am Nuc fallout. I attribute 75% of that with being an 18 year old kid away from home, and for the first time ever in my life having to do work to get the grades. I didn't have the motovation. Ah the follies of youth.

Because I have a bad knee the Navy was the only branch that would take me and nuc was the only option thay would give me a medical waiver for. With unlimited choice of ratings I don't know if I would have picked it. Like chique said, you will spend a lot of time below the waterline driving the boat. Not that that's a bad thing, but the skills aren't all that transferable in the rest of the world.

I loved my four years and had a blast, I wish you fair seas and flowing sheets.

(get everything in writing yadda yadda, my recruiter never lied to me, he omitted a shitload of stuff he could have told me, but never lied.)

::grumble grumble bonuses, what the hell is this world coming to, I got a handshake. grumble grumble::

[What Exit?]

I am another Nuke Fallout. I joined in 1985.
They talked me into the Nuke program but there were a few gotchas when I was in. I was going in for Electronics and I was promised Nuke ET but then in Boot Camp I was told I would be training as an Electrician Mate for Nuclear Power.

It was at the Navy’s discretion if you get assigned to ET, EM or MM.

As the Nuclear program had you sign a 2 year extension to get the automatic promotion to E4, I chose to opt out of the nuclear program and served 4 years as an Electrician Mate.

So if you have a rating preference, GET IT IN WRITING AND KEEP A COPY WITH YOU.
The Nuclear training school had a 75% failure rate when I was in. That means you would end up go to fleet as an E4 for 6 years but not Nuke qualified.

Good luck with your decision and your career. I hope it works out great for you. Remember what a recruiter promises you is worthless. It must be in writing.

When I was in the recruiters got bonuses for getting people into the Nuclear Program. (I verified this when I did a week of HARP duty)

Last Caveat, this was 20 years ago, so I don’t know how valid my information is today.

Jim

[Rhubarb]

More nuclear waste here - I completed Nuc Power School and was dropped during prototype training for basically oversleeping (long story, sad ending). My info is also a bit out of date - close to (yikes!) 30 years now. Per jrfranchi, if you go Nuc, the Navy chooses your rate, not you. What I discovered far too late was that I could have chosen the rate I wanted (within the ones in the nuclear classification) and later chosen to enter nuclear power training. My recruiter did not explain this to me as he got more points for signing up nucs than he did signing up electronics techs. As a result, I got to spend 6 years in the Navy serving in the engine room of a ship - one of the absolutely crappiest jobs in the Navy, as evidenced by the extremely high re-enlistment bonus offered for it at that time.

So be careful, do your research, and get it in writing. Recruiters won't lie to you, AFAIK, but they will fail to tell you things that might be in your best interest to know if your interests conflict with theirs.

[Stranger On A Train]

Originally Posted by HPL

Well, I assumed Farsi, Arabic and Chinese, just due to our likely/actual enemies. Russian suprises me a little considering the cold war is over.

The Icy Conflict ain't over, baby...like a bad sitcom it's just on hiatus. Russia is still the world's second largest nuclear power in terms of megatonnage, capability, and range, and they're busy designing and deploying a new multi-role ICBM system while the US and NATO allies are fondling their prostates. Consider, too, that many of the former Soviet Republics have either large oil reserves or thruway for pipelines to said reserves, and you have the makings of a future conflict. Dosvedanya, baby.

As far as the OP's question, I've never been in the Navy but I've had a friend that went in (and burned out) as a Nuc, and in my job responsibilities I've interacted with a few. As others have mentioned, nucs and particularly submariners tend to advance fairly quickly with respect to other disciplines, so if you are planning to wear a Blue Suit as a career it ain't a bad move. The burnout rate is high, but you have to figure that a lot of these folk have been pushed into nuc whether they fit or not in order to buff out recruiter's quotas, as previously indicated; so if you've the intelligence and aptitude for some pretty basic physics and chemistry it shouldn't be that big of a drag on you--plus, it's better work than sitting on your thumb on a supply ship in the South Pacific, as one former coworker who opted out as a lieutenant j.g. spent six years doing.

Intelligence, on the other hand...ain't. A former babysitter of mine went into the Navy in cryptography and spent her tour as a clerk, banging away on the then-modern equivilent of an Enigma machine for eight hours a day. The work is undemanding, but it doesn't make for good stories.

As others have said, get all promises wrt ratings, education, assignments, et cetera in writing, and try to get in good (without brown nosing) with a senior chief who can show you the ropes and let you know how to avoid potential pitfalls.

One other word of advice, from a bloke who's had the occasion time and again to sample the culinary offerings of all branches of the Armed Services; the Navy gives you the best food, and plenty of it. Watch out for the "freshman fifteen" (or sometimes "fifty"). They'll spoil you rotten in that regard. In contrast, if I never have to eat at an Army barracks again it'll be too soon, and I've heard horrors about what Marines will choke down...I think that's what makes 'em so mean.

Stranger

[What Exit?]

Something Stranger said riminded me of a point in Nuke schools favor.
The complete course of of a Nuclear EM was BEE (Basic electrical and Electronics)
EM 'A' School and then the Nuke School.
This was worth about 20-26 credits through a program like the Edison College.
So part of the way to an associates degree might be of interest.

Jim

[Stranger On A Train]

Originally Posted by jrfranchi

Something Stranger said riminded me of a point in Nuke schools favor.
The complete course of of a Nuclear EM was BEE (Basic electrical and Electronics)
EM 'A' School and then the Nuke School.
This was worth about 20-26 credits through a program like the Edison College.
So part of the way to an associates degree might be of interest.

What kind of credit do you get for completing AFLS (or DLI or whatever it's called now) training? Surely that has some kind of accreditation getting you partway to a language degree.

Out of idle curiosity, what's the best MOS to go for if you want to actually see the world and all that stuff they throw into the commercial? Sub rats, with whom I'm most familiar, basically get to see the port going out and coming in, and if they're lucky, a patch of grey, cloudy sky in the middle of the Atlantic or Pacific. You may travel the world, but all you see of it is what you can make out through a steel hull and several hundred feet of water. Heh.

Stranger

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by Stranger On A Train

What kind of credit do you get for completing AFLS (or DLI or whatever it's called now) training? Surely that has some kind of accreditation getting you partway to a language degree.

I don't have a clue, but Nuke was the most advance training in the Navy when I was in. So my WAG would be that it would have the most credit value.

Out of idle curiosity, what's the best MOS to go for if you want to actually see the world and all that stuff they throw into the commercial? ...snip...
Stranger

If you want to see the world in the Navy, stay off Subs and stay out of Engineering. I would say FTs* is a great bet. Lots of ET training, minimal duty in liberty ports.

Jim

* Fire Control Tech

[sailorspook]

Originally Posted by Stranger On A Train

What kind of credit do you get for completing AFLS (or DLI or whatever it's called now) training? Surely that has some kind of accreditation getting you partway to a language degree.

Complete three Gen Ed college classes, math, science, and something else, and they'll give you an associates in your target language. They tell me that DLI is an accredited school.

On duty stations:

I'm told that ship duty, sub duty, aircrew, etc. is out for those of us in our first tour. We all go to some data collection bunker dedicated to our language and basically stay there. I'm going to Hawaii, Arabic guys go to Georgia, Russians to Maryland, and Spanish to Texas. The Navy cut out the secondary training at San Angelo due to its cost. Rota is eliminating its CTI prescence. This all comes from my LPO who is fresh from a tour at NSA. She says that the Russian mission is mainly dedicated to keeping an eye on their nukes, making sure none of them end up in irresponsible hands.

On a purely anecdotal note, every nuke MM I've met hated their job. If you want flashy action movie type stuff, I would suggest Aircrewman rescue swimmer. Regardless of your rate, do a little college before you ship out and they'll boost your bonus.

[OtakuLoki]

Let me echo all the emphasis about liberty ports with respect to Nuc field.

You're not going to get much time in port for sight seeing. And since, these days, there aren't any Nuc Cruisers, you've got three choices for sea duty as a Nuc: Bird farms, fast attack, or boomers. (The Slow Approaches (old converted boomers) are mostly gone these days, I think.) Carriers suck for liberty ports: No ifs, ands or buts. Most countries do not have facilities for ships of such deep draft or size to tie up to the piers - so they have to cycle 6000 people to shore via liberty launches. Each of which can hold maybe 100 people, tops. With a 15 minute trip time - you can see how that only a fraction of the crew makes it ashore at any given port. Add to that: while other departments in most ships go on a five section duty for liberty ports, Engineering often went to port and starboard - instead of the normal three section duty.

Boomers don't get liberty ports.

Fast Attacks make more ports than any other nuc powered ship, but still aren't exactly a good way to see the world.

Finally, there are a number of ports, and countries, that refuse to allow nuclear powered vessels to dock. For example, the reason that Constellation had been kept in commission so much longer than her age mates was because Japan was very reluctant to allow the US to base a Nimitz class carrier there.

While I was in, the joke we made was: Join the Navy, and see the world - of course 75% of the world is covered with water.

Honestly, I think neither CTI nor Nuc are all that good in their offerings of liberty ports.

[chique]

Originally Posted by sailorspook

Rota is eliminating its CTI prescence.

Aw, man, that makes me sad. She say anything else about the CT rates?

[levdrakon]

HPL, I've seen you around the boards for awhile, and you sound intelligent. Go nukes if you want, but what are you going to do with that when you get out?

Go language, get that TS, SBI clearance, and you could end up having a lot of fantastic experiences. When you get out, you've still got that clearance and an intel background, and in this Homeland Security day and age, that could be really valuable.

I was stationed in Monterey three times (and came back here to live). I spend my whole Army career in the linguist field, always stationed in joint-service units. Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and usually foreign military as well. I've been all over the world. I've done some really cool shit.

Not everyone in the linguist field gets to do the really cool stuff, but if you work really hard, get good, there's no limit to what you could end up doing.

Ok, worse case, you end up on a boat, in a dark room, with headphones on. OK, even worse case, you end up stationed in the Great Lakes, in a dark room, with headphones on. But best case, you do some awesome shit only a few people in the world can say they've done.

Are you dead set on the Navy? Considered the Air Force? Army?

[sailorspook]

Originally Posted by chique

Aw, man, that makes me sad. She say anything else about the CT rates?

Um, CTA, CTT, and CTR are merging with the new one, CTN. CTNs are supposed to to all the elite haxxoring for the government.
And the SRB for my language is going up to 90k next year.

She says it's pretty much open promotion all the way up the line, to to CTs being eligible to circumvent time in rate requirements. (Called it Early Promotion points, I think.) The fact that she made first class in her first tour underscores that point for me. I've now exhausted my reserve of useful information as a lowly Seaman.

[Rhubarb]

As a follow up to my previous post and in light of some of the other posts since then, I would say that unless you have a burning desire to thermalize neutrons, stay out of the nuc rates. If seeing the world is your major criteria, some of the Navy aviation ratings are pretty good for this. My older brother was an AX (Aviation Anti Submarine Warfare Technician) and he spent the majority of his 6 years attached to a P-3 squadron in Hawaii. He flew lots of long missions, but got to see much more of the world than I did stationed on a destroyer. Also, he never set foot on a ship, which IMO, is a good deal for a sailor.

[HPL]

Originally Posted by levdrakon

HPL, I've seen you around the boards for awhile, and you sound intelligent. Go nukes if you want, but what are you going to do with that when you get out?

Are you dead set on the Navy? Considered the Air Force? Army?

Well, there's a bias because I'm a navy brat, but I've thought about the others. The air force would be my 2nd choice, then marines, and army last of all(partially because the one time I walked into an army recruiting office they gave me some phamplets and that was it, but also because I'd rather not get shot).

But I'm pretty far through the Navy process and I've wanted to go Navy for a long time.

[Mr. Moto]

I was an OS, Operations Specialist. I'll put in a word for it.

The thing about OS is that it is kind of a catchall rating for a lot of tactical shipboard skills. Anything the ship does tactically, from simple navigation and station keeping to highly complex maneuvers like NGFS, amphibious operations, and control of helos and fighter aircraft - all involve OI division and OS's to a high degree.

If this interests you, it should be looked into.

Drawbacks to the rate involve heavy time at sea, and relatively large quantities of collateral duties and scut work, especially as OI division has more warm bodies to throw at these tasks.

[indierock82]

Man, forget CTI. It's Navy SEALs that you really want

[HPL]

Originally Posted by indierock82

Man, forget CTI. It's Navy SEALs that you really want

I'm in fairly good shape, but not in that good of shape.

[Randall Graves]
Hmm.....NAVY Seals.
[/Randall Graves]

[indierock82]

I guess that just depends on your personal definition of being in "good shape".
Though the training is rigorous, I don't think it's nearly as impossible as everybody claims, in other words it's always second or third hand accounts of what it's really like and hence something gets lost in translation. The indoc is easy enough. It's just a matter of mind over body, though that is much harder in real life. I dreamed of becoming an elite-warrior for some spec-ops unit, but then after a little thought I realized that I just don't have the patience that the job would require.
And IF one actually makes it through BUD/S and then becomes a seal, you're pretty much guaranteed a trip to a shithole somewhere in the 3rd world... from which you might or might not return. A good quote comes to mind: "Bullets don't discriminate"

[Hostile Dialect]

Go for intelligence, unless you have some reason to think you can't pass a background check. My parents were in intelligence in the Navy, and it's absolutely the way to go. On the ship you sit around shooting the shit in a room full of super-cool gadgets that only you and a handful of other intel folks have access to, doing not much work--fun and important work, when you actually do something--and getting pretty nice pay for it.

Plus, after you leave the Navy, defense contractors everywhere will pay you handsomely to stand in a room every once in a while and watch somebody build something, because of your security clearance.

BTW, with your ASVAB score you can take any job you want.

I absolutely agree with Frank. I'd go so far as to say, automatically disregard everything you hear that you don't also see on paper, both in your recruiter's office and at MEPS. Also, do the math for rank advancement, because they'll try to sell you on a longer contract that will supposedly advance you faster, while the field you choose would advance you quicker anyway.

And Read. Every. Single. Word. before you sign ANYTHING. Verify every letter and number. If you can, bring a current or ex-servicemember with you every time you go to your recruiter's office or MEPS. That's what I did.

Here's my boot camp advice, having spent almost three months in Air Force basic training.

When you go to boot camp, forget all about your ASVAB and your other scores. They don't matter; you'll be a doormat like everyone else. Keep your head down, don't raise your hand (figuratively speaking) unless you know for certain you're not volunteering for pigeon shit--it will take a couple weeks of traineedom, but you'll develop a natural eye for that. Be as forgettable as possible the whole way through. Don't show up in your Navy T-shirt etc; wear a completely inoffensive T-shirt and jeans.

Whatever you do, DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT and I mean DO NOT go to Medical unless you're missing at least one leg. Let me repeat myself:

DO. NOT. GO. TO. MEDICAL. EVER. (Except the one or two times you go with the rest of the flight and they give you the peanut-butter shot, penicillin in the rear etc.)

Some O-2 or O-3 will be happy to write you a waiver that pulls you out of training, away from the trainees you've developed a rapport with, into medical hold where your soul and your will to live will be sucked out through your nose until you're a dry, hollow shell of a man dreading the moment you wake up each morning, until they decide they're tired of giving you medical attention and strong-arm you into going into another training flight (I don't know what the Navy calls them), where you'll probably have missed your A-school (or whatever) date and end up becoming a Master-at-Arms or a front-line sand-eater. Now, since you don't want to go to Medical, that means you're going to want strong shoulders that can handle infinite pushups--after you finish initial PRT someone's going to say something wrong and you'll all be on your face pushing Illinois into hell, and when you're finally finished someone else is going to screw something else up and you'll do it all over again, ad infinitum. That's how I screwed myself over and ended up in Med Hold: I didn't do my conditioning before going in. Make sure you are at least 197% sure that you will pass your initial PRT with flying colors before you go in. They might want to send you to a Get Fit flight if you fail initial PRT, too, and you'll overexert yourself there and get sent to Medical Hold--that's what happened to me and a lot of other Med Hold trainees.

Oh yeah, another thing. You will have A LOT more rights as a trainee than the TI's (I think the Navy calls them DI's) want you to think:

* Nobody can make you go to (or not go to) any particular religious service. If your DI tells you you're not showing team spirit and you're screwing up his/her training schedule--or makes you complete any task or extra work to earn the right to go/not go, etc.--report him or her.
* No DI can make any physical contact with you whatsoever--even so much as a finger on the brim of your hat--without first explicitly asking, "Can I touch you?".
* Do everything [legal] that the DI's or your student leaders tell you to do, exactly how you're told to do it. You'd be surprised how far ahead of the pack this will put you. If you do that, and something gets screwed up, and an authority figure asks you why you did it the way you did it, tell them the truth: "Sir/Ma'am, Petty Officer X/Chief Y/My element leader told me to." You won't get in trouble.
* Use the feedback sheets that are all over the base. They're there for a reason.
* You'll probably be in a pretty constant state of quaking in your boots the first couple of days. Stay as cool as you can, find the most level-headed trainees in the flight and befriend them, then go to them and ask for help when you're too freaked out by the scream treatment you just got to figure out how to do whatever it is you're doing.
* Volunteer for KP. You'll be glad you did. Seriously.
* Don't let anyone with stripes know your name.
* Don't ever, ever, ever, ever give an excuse or lie. DI's are always trying to test your integrity by asking you what you were doing when they know you were (for example) writing letters. Tell the truth.

Boot camp is just about the easiest job in the world: you know exactly who you work for and exactly what's expected of you. Do it with a smile. The DI's will notice, and you'll end up being the one scrubbing the least bird shit in the squadron. If you do it right, you'll have a lot of fun and you'll go to bed every night with a smile on your face.

Originally Posted by HPL

Hebrew as well, considering I didn't realize we had a lot of interest in going to war with Isreal

We spy on everyone, including our allies, to keep them honest. Our allies spy on us, too. Declan, Israel actually is quite capable of domestic surveillance. When I was over there I was told that the IDF catches several would-be suicide bombers a month, before any bombs are strapped to chests.

Somebody mentioned the Air Force. Consider it; they'll treat you better throughout your career because they're a smaller force which spends more money and time on each individual member. You're still going to be a doormat in every branch, though, because it's not about you, it's about the country that you've humbly submitted yourself to. Keep politics in mind at all times, especially in the Navy but really in any public sector job; one politically incorrect move early in your career can be immortalized in your FITREP files and put an unofficial ceiling on your promotions. That happened to my uncle, who took the cause of the wrong Chief when he was fresh out of the Academy. He did well eventually, but he screwed up his long-term chances for Captain from day one, and indeed never got there even though he was well-qualified.

[Sean Factotum]

Originally Posted by OtakuLoki

But still, accept that the Nuc field, between A school, Nuc school, and prototype will weed about 50%. I wonder what it's like now that it's coed.

People that would never have made it through A school ended up as push-button 2nd by the time they hit the fleet. And I saw that as the chief who had to get these people to perform the bare necessities to fulfill their duties. But that's for another thread.

It basically comes down to what you want to do - sail around a lot and hitting the same ports over and over again (nuke) or stay in a room that looks like the room you stayed in at your last duty station all the time (CTI). Choose your rate and seal your fate - once you've passed the training for either field the only way out of it is by going into a commissioning program. Or by getting out of the Navy.

I have to agree with the earlier assessment that most nukes who get out before retiring don't work in the commercial power field. But a lot of that has to do with the availability of jobs. Most of those positions are filled by retired nukes, and since sailors can retire as early as 38 years old, there are a lot of old guys at the different plants that have been there since before the Nimitz was commissioned.

But you have more skills than you know when you get out and you're looking for a job. You have shown that you can be trained in just about anything. Depending on your time in and jobs held, you have management experience. Whatever it is that you learned to fix has civilian counterparts that don't always deal with the commercial nuclear power industry - a pump is a pump, a motor is a motor, ELTs often go into the RadHealth field, and more and more companies these days need people who can troubleshoot electronic equipment down to the component level. And you've shown that for 6 years (at least) that you can show up for work everyday. You'd be surprised how far that can get you.

And to jrfranchi and Stranger - the credits you will receive depend on the degree you are shooting for. A friend of mine could have gotten 3/4 of the way towards an engineering degree with his EM nuke training, but since he was going for an econimics degree, got only 6 or 10 credits, for PE and some electives.