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  #1  
Old 01-17-2006, 12:52 PM
Green Cymbeline Green Cymbeline is offline
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Why are men slobs? (Or, annoying things your SO does)

This letter from Ask Amy in today's Washington Post got me wondering:
Quote:
Dear Amy:

I have been married for 10 years and have three young children.

I am not one to complain to others about my husband. However, I often hear many of the same complaints (that I internalize) from everyone: He never picks up after himself, he leaves dirty socks on the floor, he lets the kids run crazy and has no idea of what the house rules are. All he does on weekends is sit and watch football.

How can so many women have the same complaints? Why do so many men think there is a magic fairy that is going to pick up after them? Did indulgent mothers create this behavior? Shouldn't there be a universal solution by now?

My question for you, Dopers, is this: do you really think many/most men are like this? Why do you think guys are like this?
The two guys I have lived with, and the majority of the guys I dated, were pretty much like this to varying extents. Little things, like cleaning the bathroom. If I didn't clean it, I think it would probably never be done. Vacuuming - I do it about once a week; if I were not there, it probably would get done every three months at the most. If I didn't strip the bed and wash the sheets regularly, it would never get done. I could go on and on… I am by no means a neat freak, but I don't want to live in a gross, unsanitary house.

And on the flip side... Men, what things do women do that bug you similarly?
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  #2  
Old 01-17-2006, 12:54 PM
Green Cymbeline Green Cymbeline is offline
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OOOPS!

This line:

My question for you, Dopers, is this: do you really think many/most men are like this? Why do you think guys are like this?

Should have been outside the quote box! I wrote that, not the Ask Amy letter.
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  #3  
Old 01-17-2006, 12:55 PM
msmith537 msmith537 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyctea scandiaca
...Men, what things do women do that bug you similarly?

They ask me to pick up my shit while I'm watching TV.
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  #4  
Old 01-17-2006, 12:57 PM
An Arky An Arky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyctea scandiaca

And on the flip side... Men, what things do women do that bug you similarly?
Bitch about me not cleaning the house to some damn OCD woman's standards. I don't care if the kitchen or bathroom doesn't pass the white glove test. Nor do I think that I should care just because someone else does. You care? You clean it.
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Old 01-17-2006, 01:20 PM
RunSilent RunSilent is offline
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This is not anything written in stone, but I have found that those of us guys who have been in the military keep things cleaner that those who have not been in. Those who have never served never learned to clean.
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  #6  
Old 01-17-2006, 01:22 PM
YaWanna YaWanna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyctea scandiaca
OOOPS!

This line:
My question for you, Dopers, is this: do you really think many/most men are like this? Why do you think guys are like this?
Well, I don't know about "most men." Mr. Wanna, though, definitely.

When I moved in with him, it was his habit to change his bedsheets no more than once a month. Ditto for vacuuming carpets, and scrubbing toilets was a once or twice a year proposition. The walls had never been washed (which you could see from several feet away), and some things were so dusty as to be unredeemable.

This morning when I went into the kitchen, I found some black particles strewn on the floor in front of the trash compactor. I had just swept & mopped the afternoon before!

I am not "some OCD woman", but I grew up in an environment where that kind of thing will attract giant disgusting cockroaches, so I can't abide it.
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Old 01-17-2006, 01:25 PM
Left Hand of Dorkness Left Hand of Dorkness is offline
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My wife likes a house to be far cleaner than I do. I like to spend far less time cleaning than she does. So we compromise: I spend more time cleaning than I would like to, to get a house to a level of cleanliness that doesn't mean anything to me except that it pleases my wife; and she accepts a lower standard of cleanliness than she'd ideally have, in order to partially accommodate my wish not to spend so much time cleaning.

On the other hand, I care a lot more about the computer than she does, so I spend a lot more time keeping the computer updated with software, running disk scans,and so forth. I hope that eventually it works out.

The "Ask Amy" writer needs to ask herself who determines what the House Rules are, and what the house rules would be if they really respected everyone's wishes. If they're designed primarily to please her, she shouldn't be surprised to discover that that she's the only one that cares much about them.

Daniel
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  #8  
Old 01-17-2006, 01:39 PM
Anaamika Anaamika is offline
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I don't need my house spotless. Not by any means. This is what I would like:

For the entire house to be picked up, once a week. This just means any piles of stuff should be cleaned up, nothing on the floor, things in their place.
The toilet should be pretty close to white...doesn't have to be spotless.
All the garbages emptied when full.
Vacuumed once a week. I do this, because it's mainly my hair all over the carpet.
Dishes cleaned daily, or at most every other day.
Kitchen cleaned thoroughly once a month.

Stuff like that. Now, a lot of this stuff would be easier if we both would just keep up with it. As in, pick up clothes when you take them off and hang them up, don't just drop them on the floor, etc.

I don't want to nag him, but when I see him take off his nice shirt and dump it on the floor, I have to say something. If only because it's his nice shirt, and I don't want it trod upon!

He is actually very good about cleaning - once I remind him. He rarely does it on his own. So we've compromised. Sunday morning is chores. I don't remind him, don't nag him, I just start cleaning myself, and that way he gets reminded. And the house gets cleaned.

As for stuff he does that genuinely annoys me - hawk lugies. (However you spell that). The thing is, when he was a kid, someone nearly broke his nose and if he blows his nose too hard he gets an instant, bloody, horrible nosebleed. So I understand why he does it, and don't complain, but it sure does gross me out.
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Old 01-17-2006, 01:52 PM
Corii Corii is offline
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The only thing that really bugs me about my SO's cleaning is that I have to constantly remind and nag him to do something, and he gets mad at me for nagging. The kicker is, he ASKED me to nag him because, as he said, "Otherwise I'll never get it done."! But he's such a sweetie I can't stay mad at him.
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Old 01-17-2006, 02:07 PM
Who_me? Who_me? is offline
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Real men don't dust.
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Old 01-17-2006, 02:27 PM
AuntiePam AuntiePam is offline
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I've been married twice, and neither husband did/does housework. First husband was once off work for two years, while I worked full-time (with four kids), and he never lifted a finger in the house. We were married for 27 years. His mom and sisters did everything for him when he was growing up, including ironing his clothes.

Second husband kept his place up pretty good when we were dating, including changing sheets and cleaning the toilet, but he's done neither of these things in the ten years that we've been married. He'll occasionally take a feather duster to the cobwebs in the corners, but that's it. (I don't know why cobwebs bother him so much.)

Two of my three sons are slobs and the one who lives alone is a clean freak. If he had to help clean up someone else's mess, or if he had someone to clean up after him, he might not be so tidy.
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Old 01-17-2006, 02:35 PM
YaWanna YaWanna is offline
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Yeah, it's the nagging thing that really pisses me off, too. They (some men) passive-aggressively set you up to nag, so they can then make you be the "bad wife."

This scenario happens over & over at our house:

He asks me: "what can I do to help you? You work so hard, and I want you to have some time to rest/be with me."

So I say, "It would be helpful if you would vacuum the bedroom." And he says he will.

I go about my chores, and I can't help but notice that he's still sitting in front of the TV. (I feel really resentful when I'm working my ass off and he's sitting in front of the TV.) I need the bedroom vacuumed before I can do certain tasks of my own, so I ask, "when are you going to vacuum?" His answer: "when I'm done watching this game."

I find a way to work around the unvaccumed bedroom issue. Later, when I walk by again, he's still sitting in front of the damn TV. Watching a different show.

Finally, when the only thing left to do is vacuum the damn bedroom, I do it.

I used to nag him, but it just made us both unhappy. This way, I'm the only one that's unhappy. Fair, huh?

Sometimes my spouse can be a real f*%@wad!
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  #13  
Old 01-17-2006, 02:48 PM
Kyyrewyyoae Kyyrewyyoae is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyctea scandiaca
The two guys I have lived with, and the majority of the guys I dated, were pretty much like this to varying extents. Little things, like cleaning the bathroom. If I didn't clean it, I think it would probably never be done. Vacuuming - I do it about once a week; if I were not there, it probably would get done every three months at the most. If I didn't strip the bed and wash the sheets regularly, it would never get done. I could go on and on… I am by no means a neat freak, but I don't want to live in a gross, unsanitary house.
I've lived in this apartment since August, and I've cleaned the bathroom exactly twice. Both times I knew family members were coming to visit who would have problems with the state of the place. I don't think I've vacuumed unless I've spilled something on the carpet. And the sheets don't get washed unless a guest is staying and I give up the bed. So I guess I'm pretty typical.
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Old 01-17-2006, 03:16 PM
corkboard corkboard is online now
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I don't clean as frequently as my wife, but when I do, I clean much more thoroughly than her. She's content for things to be straightened up and basically cleaner than when she started, but I figure that if I'm going to do it, the place is going to shine when I'm done. So, I guess I'm less bothered about uncleanliness (uncleanliness? whatever) in the first place, but frankly I take more pride in the job (when I do it) than any of the women I've ever been with.

For instance, when I build something in my house, I can enjoy it forever because I built it to last. But I don't like cleaning (or raking leaves, or gardening, etc) because in a few days or a week, it just needs to be done again, and it's as if I had never done it at all. It's the constant need for it to be done over and over again that bothers me, so I turn a blind eye to it. But when I've decided enough is enough and it's time to do the job, I like to do it 110%.
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Old 01-17-2006, 03:37 PM
Velma Velma is offline
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I think women in general take more pride out of the way their house is kept than men. It may be a stereotype and I am sure there are plenty of exceptions, but when a house is a mess inside people are more likely to think badly of the woman, the same way when a woman does not groom herself people say she has let herself go. Men are not judged on appearance in their tasks but more on what they can provide / produce. Men get judged for not being able to provide whereas women usually don't.

I think in part I am more compelled to keep a clean house than my husband because I know other people may judge me for it, not him, even though no one I know would outwardly come out and say anything to me. One of the first things people notice about a house is the way it is kept and I guess my pride keeps me from letting things go too much. We do expect a single man to live like a slob, no one thinks he is a failure as a man for it or for not knowing how to do laundry the same way no one is suprised when a woman does not know how to change her oil. We often laugh or kid a guy about a messy apartment like we would a teenager. A woman who lives like a slob is more likely to raise eyebrows, right or wrong as it may be.

Another reason may just be no one ever expected him to clean or his mother may have done it all and he was just never raised to notice things like that. Changing the sheets seems to be a common one - most single guys I knew in college just didn't do it. I think that is one of those things that mom always does and they never notice. Women often know more about hygenic issues that come with it too - I know my husband was never worried about a dust mite because he lived in blissful ignorance about them, but once I heard about them I can't let the sheets go for more than a week without getting icked out. Men don't seem to care about sleeping in microscopic bugs but I do!

I am lucky that my husband is pretty good about cleaning and he does not complain if I ask him to help me more, but like most couples I know the majority of the cleaning and housework is done by me just because I am the first to notice it.
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Old 01-17-2006, 03:46 PM
Athena Athena is offline
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I'm with the guys on this one. Who the heck wants to spend their weekends cleaning?!?

In the Athena household, we get around this by having a cleaning woman come in once a week and clean. I realize this isn't economically possible for some people, but I'm also constantly amazed at how many people would rather let their relationship go to shit over cleaning than spend the money it take to get a cleaning lady in. It's not horribly expensive; even when I lived in a more expensive area it only cost ~$100 to get someone in twice a month to do the basics.

That said, Mr. Athena and I aren't typical; He's much tidier than I am, but I like things cleaner than him. For example, I don't mind if there's bottles and hairdriers and such lying about the bathroom sink, as long as the sink is clean. He's more or less the opposite, except every once in a while he gets concerned about things that I don't care about. Currently he's fixated on dust and pet hair under the bed and couch and such. I don't get two shits about that. So far, all he's done is bitch, though. He doesn't ever actually clean the stuff himself.

In fact, that's pretty common around here: he bitches at me to tidy up or clean stuff I don't care about, and I ignore him. If he'd take the initiative and start doing it, I'd help him. But bitching alone falls on deaf ears.
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Old 01-17-2006, 03:47 PM
Ferret Herder Ferret Herder is offline
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My husband is much more apt to clean than I am. We're both fairly untidy in terms of leaving stuff lying around/on the floor/etc. He's more likely than I to suddenly get the "cleaning bug" and start scrubbing things, picking stuff up off the table, etc. (That's how both of us clean, we get in the mood to clean and just start cleaning anything within range, until we come down from that mood within an hour or so.) And if anyone in the house makes a comment about something being messy, it's him.

As for a woman taking pride in how the house is kept and not wanting others to judge her for a messy home, we take care of that issue by rarely having people over. When we do, we both go into a cleaning frenzy the day before.
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Old 01-17-2006, 03:53 PM
Green Cymbeline Green Cymbeline is offline
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Whenever I vacuum, I show him the canister (it's clear) so he can see how much dirt and crap we were walking around on. It's just disgusting to think about how much nastiness we'd be walking around in if I didn't vacuum regularly. Most people like to be able to walk in their house barefoot, right?

About the bathroom. When I first moved in, the counter and sink were just covered in grime and nastiness. It took me literally two minutes to spray cleaner and scrub it down and rinse it off. It looked so much better. Don't get me started on the shower, toilet, and floor. This is where you clean yourself every day,why would you want to be in a dirty, unsanitary environment? And it's NOT THAT HARD! It takes only minutes!!
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Old 01-17-2006, 03:56 PM
Green Cymbeline Green Cymbeline is offline
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The rare times he does wash the dishes, he doesn't do the WHOLE job. Part of doing the dishes is rinsing food and gunk out of the sink, wiping down the counters, wiping the stove. He never does that stuff.

Why can't guys see the gunk all over the counters or on the stovetop? And why can't they see the huge dustbunnies collecting in the corners? I think they have selective blindness on these issues
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Old 01-17-2006, 03:58 PM
Anastasaeon Anastasaeon is offline
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The first two guys I was with would make a huge mess, sit down to watch TV, then bitch to me about the house not being clean. My roommate did the same thing, and I wasn't dating her.

The third guy is far more anal about cleanliness than I am, and needs to have things neat and tidy before he does anything relaxing. Whether I cleaned the house or not, it's just automatic for him to begin cleaning when he gets home from work.

I married that one.

I keep the place as clean and tidy as possible, so the poor dear gets a break, but sometimes, I'm convinced, he just needs to do something with his hands that feels constructive. I also make sure to have his dinner ready, and give him a massage every night, too. Hard work gets rewarded around here.
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Old 01-17-2006, 04:08 PM
hajario hajario is online now
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I don't want this to turn into a Pit thread but, nyctea, I've seen you get a little bent out of shape about gender issues more than once. I am suprised that you are asking specifically about men rather than people in general.

I am far neater than my ex-wife. Now that she is gone, the house is much neater. Granted there is one less person living there but the neatness is because her fucking clutter isn't strewn all over the place anymore. The living room used to be a mine field of shoes, bags from her clothing shopping (different rant), papers, exercise equipment, empty glasses and other various things. We didn't have kids so it's not like there wasn't any free time. How hard is it to spend five minutes picking up the stuff from the day before you go to sleep?
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Old 01-17-2006, 04:23 PM
hazel-rah hazel-rah is offline
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My dad likes it when I come to stay because I don't make a mess... my sister turns the house into a trash heap within minutes of arriving. And her car... oh my god.
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  #23  
Old 01-17-2006, 04:24 PM
MLS MLS is offline
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It's the other way around in my house. I need the kitchen clean before I do any cooking, and the bathrooms should not be grubby. Other than that, I really don't care all that much about dust and clutter. This is the major bone of contention between my husband and me in the 40+ years of our marriage. The problem is, he came from an environment where cleanliness was extraordinarily important AND was taken care of by his mother, as was all the cooking.

Before we have any important company over, there will be a cleaning and straightening frenzy, accompanied by much stress.
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Old 01-17-2006, 04:31 PM
ultrafilter ultrafilter is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyctea scandiaca
Why can't guys see the gunk all over the counters or on the stovetop? And why can't they see the huge dustbunnies collecting in the corners? I think they have selective blindness on these issues
You may be on to something here. There's a theory that, back in our hunter-gatherer days, gathering (which was the women's activity) required a much better eye for detail than hunting. And so women evolved to have a better eye for detail than men, and it persists to this day. It's not obviously implausible.
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Old 01-17-2006, 04:33 PM
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I dunno -- from my experience with Mr. Kiz (which happens to mirror most of the female commenters here), I'd wager to say that it yes, a lot of it probably stems from not noticing/caring, but also the passive-aggressive I'm-still-in-my-teens rebellious phase that so many men seem to possess. Why, I have no idea. I'm still trying to figure it out.

Before Mr. Kiz, most of the men I dated were sloppy. I didn't live with them, so I felt it wasn't any of my business to comment.

The two who weren't? One was ex-military. Lots of stuff, yes, but everything was arranged so neatly and at attention that at first glance you wouldn't notice.

The second was more of an OCD freak than my MIL. Come to think of it, that just may be the reason why Mr. Kiz rebels so much against anything to do with cleaning. Hmm.
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  #26  
Old 01-17-2006, 04:44 PM
FilmGeek FilmGeek is offline
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Both my fiance and I are total slobs. I'm going to clean today, but I'm not happy about it.

We have two things that have to be done, laundry and dishes. I'm in charge of laundry, he's in charge of dishes/kitchen cleaning.

We're pretty okay living like slobs (lots of paper trash in our house, but we clean up food as to not draw bugs) and living in clutter. We're going to have to start showing our apartment, though, as we're not renewing this year, so we have to pick up and keep the place picked up for the next few months.

It's not just men that are messy, truly.
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Old 01-17-2006, 04:59 PM
Fretful Porpentine Fretful Porpentine is offline
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Female slob, here. Not cleaning is easier than cleaning. Easy.

I think a much better question would be why more women aren't slobs. I mean, people have to choose to be bothered by, say, floors that haven't been vacuumed or sheets that haven't been changed in a while. These things aren't inherently bothersome, and in fact you can't really tell the difference unless you happen to know when these tasks were last done. Why not choose not to be bothered by it and make your life simpler?
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Old 01-17-2006, 05:22 PM
BlackKnight BlackKnight is offline
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I rarely clean because I simply don't have much free time. I've been working lots of overtime lately, and when I get home I have time to eat, surf the Dope, play a bit of World of Warcraft, then sleep. That's about it.

On Sundays, the only day I haven't been working lately, I do laundry and dishes. I will occassionally vacuum or do minor tidying. But I don't want to spend my one day off for the week just cleaning.

I wonder if at least some of the stereotype of the slobbish man comes from the fact that men were (and probably still are) more likely to work full-time. I don't have a cite, but I recall hearing somewhere that although most women work, they are much more likely to work part-time than men. And if one person spends more time at home than the other, then they will naturally notice grime and dirt easier. Not only that, they probably won't be as tired as the full-time worker. I also suspect that men are far more likely to do physically demanding jobs, leaving them exhausted and uninterested in anything other than being a couch potato.

(This is just a hypothesis. I could, of course, be wrong.)
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Old 01-17-2006, 05:30 PM
Seren Seren is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hajario
I am suprised that you are asking specifically about men rather than people in general.
Seconded. Wasn't there just a thread in here a week or so ago asking the same thing? IIRC, a lot of people commented that the OP was wrong for assuming the stereotype that men are messy is correct. I also seem to remember that most people posting to that thread said that the guys in the relationships tended to be neater.
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Old 01-17-2006, 06:00 PM
Yeticus Rex Yeticus Rex is offline
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Funny how I found this thread after I spent one hour last night taking apart a vacuum that had a stuck spindle and removed about half a headful of my wife's hair that's wrapped around it to make it work again......and the dust bunnies.

Generally, the nesting trait is primarily a woman's characteristic, and is more of an important issue to her rather than a man's issue. That's why most men don't see a dirtier room as much of a nuisance to them as most women would.

I do like to take preventative steps though when it comes to keeping a house clean so I don't have to clean it as often, but my wife (who has been nicknamed "Spiller Diller" since childhood) and my 3 sons make my dream an impossibility.
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Old 01-17-2006, 06:33 PM
wolfman wolfman is offline
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Quote:
You may be on to something here. There's a theory that, back in our hunter-gatherer days, gathering (which was the women's activity) required a much better eye for detail than hunting. And so women evolved to have a better eye for detail than men, and it persists to this day. It's not obviously implausible.
If that's true then why do women apparently lack the ability to notice the detail of the position of the toilet seat?

Quote:
I don't want to nag him, but when I see him take off his nice shirt and dump it on the floor, I have to say something. If only because it's his nice shirt, and I don't want it trod upon!
I willing to bet he(like most clothes droppers) knows exactly were the shirt containment area is instinctively and has never trod upon anything there, even in the dark.
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  #32  
Old 01-17-2006, 07:00 PM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is online now
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I'm a guy in my early 40's. I've never been in the military. I clean my place once or twice a week. At least one of those times requires disinfecting all non carpeted floors and all counter surfaces. Toilets get cleaned the most frequently with an additional random wipe down with a bit or Tylex.

When I was living with my ex-wife (15 years) we both kept a pretty clean and orderly household. I was clean before that and I'm equally clean now. Bed sheets are changed once a week. Dishes never sit in the sink more than an hour or so.

Every woman I've dated since, doesn't seem to be as thorough as me when it comes to being house proud.

My younger bother is the same as me and we got our cleanliness habits from our parents.

I guess it's not a question of not having something better to do instead of cleaning. I seem to get everything I want to do done in any given day. But the cleaning has it's time and priority and it also gets done. I just feel/breath better in a clean and tidy home.
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  #33  
Old 01-17-2006, 07:41 PM
Green Cymbeline Green Cymbeline is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Originally Posted by hajario
I am suprised that you are asking specifically about men rather than people in general.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seren
Seconded. Wasn't there just a thread in here a week or so ago asking the same thing? IIRC, a lot of people commented that the OP was wrong for assuming the stereotype that men are messy is correct. I also seem to remember that most people posting to that thread said that the guys in the relationships tended to be neater.
I was using the Dear Amy letter as a springboard: She asked:
"How can so many women have the same complaints?"

Then I asked for your opinions:
"My question for you, Dopers, is this: do you really think many/most men are like this? "

I know plenty of messy/dirty women too. But it seems men have a bigger reputation for not liking to clean. I'm wondering if this is really true, and if so, why? In my experience, it's men who are the worst. I'm just asking for other opinions.

And to be fair, I did ask:
"And on the flip side... Men, what things do women do that bug you similarly?"
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  #34  
Old 01-17-2006, 08:14 PM
hajario hajario is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyctea scandiaca
I was using the Dear Amy letter as a springboard: She asked:
"How can so many women have the same complaints?"

Then I asked for your opinions:
"My question for you, Dopers, is this: do you really think many/most men are like this? "
I see now. I apologize.
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Old 01-18-2006, 06:20 AM
Malacandra Malacandra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyctea scandiaca
I was using the Dear Amy letter as a springboard: She asked:
"How can so many women have the same complaints?"

Then I asked for your opinions:
"My question for you, Dopers, is this: do you really think many/most men are like this? "

I know plenty of messy/dirty women too. But it seems men have a bigger reputation for not liking to clean. I'm wondering if this is really true, and if so, why? In my experience, it's men who are the worst. I'm just asking for other opinions.

And to be fair, I did ask:
"And on the flip side... Men, what things do women do that bug you similarly?"
I'll answer that last part:

Leave clean, folded laundry over any and every flat surface, anywhere in the house, rather than put the fucking stuff away. Leave clean laundry in the ironing basket indefinitely, rather than iron it and put the fucking stuff away. (On the plus side, the cat finds it very comfortable. We have taken to putting a towel on top of the ironing basket so the cat will not get the clean laundry all covered in cat hairs.) Treat the stovetop as an extension of the work surfaces - mercifully not for laundry, but the odd melted plastic item over the years has still not persuaded Mrs M that sometimes the fucking thing is hot, and one of these days we're cruising for a paper fire. Leave her dirty clothes all over the bedroom floor. And leave her used sanpro in the open basket in the en-suite until her period's over or the basket is full to the brim. At least it gets folded up in its inherent wrapping, though if the little sticky tab doesn't stick, well, that's Kismet. (The basket gets emptied if the lady-who-does is coming; after all, we wouldn't want Linda to have to put up with that, would we? )

This made me laugh:
Quote:
Originally Posted by YaWanna
Yeah, it's the nagging thing that really pisses me off, too. They (some men) passive-aggressively set you up to nag, so they can then make you be the "bad wife."
You mean, like some women passively-aggressively set you up to hit them, so they can then make you be the "bad man"? (NB - I have never hit Mrs M; I think I may have shouted at her twice in a dozen years of marriage.)
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  #36  
Old 01-18-2006, 06:37 AM
TheLoadedDog TheLoadedDog is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Cleaning up after dinner is one that bugs me.

You just finish the last morsel of a large, sumptuous meal (virtually still chewing) when the women leap up and start fussing about taking dirty plates back to the kitchen.

I protest.

They insist, "No, you'll be thankful in the morning if we do it now."

No I won't. I accept that waking up to a filthy kitchen is not going to be a great start to the morning, but I'm willing to make that trade-off. In the morning, I'll be alert and fresh, and will be able to knock it over in five minutes. But for now, I'm tired and probably had a beer or two, I'm bloated with rich food and dessert, and I would like nothing more than to remain at the table with everybody for another twenty minutes or so to digest the food, maybe have a coffee or another glass of wine, a bit of conversation, etc.

Who are they trying to impress?
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  #37  
Old 01-18-2006, 07:39 AM
Thirty-Nine Thirty-Nine is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2004
I’m currently at college, where people generally have a room to themselves, either in halls or rented housing. I was really surprised to find that the whole “woman are neater” thing doesn’t hold at all. On the whole, it seems to balance out – though I’m sure I’ve come across more obsessively neat guys (the sort who cringe if you nudge their pen pot out of place), while the messiest room I’ve ever seen belonged to a girl (clothes, empty wrappers and course material jumbled up all over the floor).
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  #38  
Old 01-18-2006, 07:42 AM
Idlewild Idlewild is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLoadedDog
Cleaning up after dinner is one that bugs me.

You just finish the last morsel of a large, sumptuous meal (virtually still chewing) when the women leap up and start fussing about taking dirty plates back to the kitchen.

I protest.

They insist, "No, you'll be thankful in the morning if we do it now."

No I won't. I accept that waking up to a filthy kitchen is not going to be a great start to the morning, but I'm willing to make that trade-off. In the morning, I'll be alert and fresh, and will be able to knock it over in five minutes. But for now, I'm tired and probably had a beer or two, I'm bloated with rich food and dessert, and I would like nothing more than to remain at the table with everybody for another twenty minutes or so to digest the food, maybe have a coffee or another glass of wine, a bit of conversation, etc.

Who are they trying to impress?
I bought brandy glasses and a bottle of brandy in a vain effort to get my husband to stay at the table for, eesh, maybe five minutes after we finish our meal so we can sit like civilised people before he jumps up and starts scraping off the dishes and loading the dishwasher.

I can see him twitching the whole time I make him wait.

Drives me crazy.
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  #39  
Old 01-18-2006, 11:05 AM
Zsofia Zsofia is online now
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Okay, it's my house. Not his. He spends a lot of nights over with me, and a lot of time, but it isn't his house and he doesn't have any cleaning responsibilities. Plus, I myself tend to slobbitude.

So why the fuck, since he's basically sleeping and showering rent free, does he knock half the fucking shower curtain off the rod any time he even walks near the bathroom, and then not put it back up? I realize, yeah, it's a pain in the ass - it falls down a lot because the rod is too low because it's a crappy bathroom. But I don't knock it down, and if I did I'd put the little hooks back up! What the hell is so hard about that? And don't you think there's a reason I have the curtain clipped to the wall in front? That it might have something to do with huge puddles of water on the floor? And that if you just absolutely have to drag it out of it's clip, you could put it back?!

Also, if I make a nice dinner, and we eat it, the last stop for your dish is not the sink, with food still on it. Particularly if I yell after you, "The dishes in the dishwasher are dirty!" I don't ask him to clean the kitchen, or wash the dishes, or anything. Wouldn't you just automatically rinse? Since it isn't your house?

Also, with the damned bread. Leave it open, get stale bread. See if I buy more.

I had no idea I had so much hostility built up over the shower curtain.
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  #40  
Old 01-18-2006, 12:23 PM
cowgirl cowgirl is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2002
We're pretty clean (ie no food waste lying around), but not at all tidy.

I'm bothered by clutter, though, once:

- I can't find stuff I need
- there's no place to sit or walk without stepping or sitting on something

As my husband is the more likely one to lose stuff, and to carelessly sit/step on things (which then break), I am usually the one to pick up and he is the one to not notice.

I'm also bothered when I walk around barefoot and bits of particulate matter stick to my feet, and I am also badly allergic to dust - hence I vacuum a lot, even though my place is hardwood. No dusting for me, just a zap with the Shark Plus and it's all good. I'd bet that at least half the time I pick stuff up off the floor it's so that I can vacuum underneath it.

I sometimes get rather grouchy and intolerable if I spend my Saturday cleaning up two weeks' worth of house clutter while he is not, and he has learned that it's much better for him if he helps out a little when he sees me cleaning up his mess around him.

Re: nagging, and the passive-aggressive way to bring this about - I once had a (male) roommate who would never, ever do the minor chores that he had agreed to when we moved in together (i.e. sweep the living room and stairs occasionally, wash your own dishes - a pretty good deal considering he never had to clean the kitchen/bathroom). He never did it, literally, never in about six months. I asked him to do it, and he said he would, but wouldn't tell me when - he'd say "I'll do it, don't worry." If I reminded him he'd get mad that I was nagging, and refuse to do it because I had nagged him.

Pretty good deal for him, I'd say. I pity the poor woman he marries - if any one of us is stupid enough to take him.
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  #41  
Old 01-18-2006, 04:17 PM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
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Location: U.S.A.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zsofia
Wouldn't you just automatically rinse? Since it isn't your house?
No, I wouldn't. It's the host who cleans his/her own house.
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  #42  
Old 01-18-2006, 04:25 PM
Zsofia Zsofia is online now
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by acsenray
No, I wouldn't. It's the host who cleans his/her own house.
Are you really the "host" if somebody practically lives at your house and just maintains an apartment to keep his stuff in? Particularly if you always cook?
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  #43  
Old 01-18-2006, 04:29 PM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 27,293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velma
- I know my husband was never worried about a dust mite because he lived in blissful ignorance about them, but once I heard about them I can't let the sheets go for more than a week without getting icked out. Men don't seem to care about sleeping in microscopic bugs but I do!
Dust mites live inside the mattress, inside the pillows, in the carpet, in the draperies, and, most of all, on every human body. You're never going to get rid of all of them. It is true though that frequent changing of bedclothes will keep the numbers down a bit, helping those who might have allergies.
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  #44  
Old 01-18-2006, 04:33 PM
wasson wasson is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
My girlfriend and I live in separate houses, but somehow mine has been designated as our place to hang out in. I'd rather make it her house, since she constantly complains about the state of my house.

I'm your typical guy, I guess. When I know the girl is spending the night, I'll wash the bedding. Not if I'm sleeping alone, even if its for more than a month. My towels get washed maybe once a month. I try not to use dishes, since I never wash them.

Sometimes the house gets so bad, she can't take it anymore and schedules a cleaning day. I hate those days. She puts stuff in weird places so I can't find it anymore.

She doesn't do a whole lot that bothers me. She's an angel. I'm a slob.
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  #45  
Old 01-18-2006, 04:54 PM
kunilou kunilou is offline
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Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 17,975
Despite being married for 25 years, my wife and I have a continuing low-grade disagreement about how to keep house. She doesn't like the way I make the bed. What's the difference, I ask, as long as the bed gets made. I like to fold and sort the laundry as it comes out of the dryer. She's perfectly happy to throw it all in a basket and come back days later. What's the difference, she asks, as long as the laundry gets done. We even disagree about how to stack the dishes in the dishwasher.

Bottom line -- if it's your job, you do it the way that seems right. If it's not your job, shut up.
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  #46  
Old 01-18-2006, 05:12 PM
kiz kiz is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiz
I dunno -- from my experience with Mr. Kiz (which happens to mirror most of the female commenters here), I'd wager to say that it yes, a lot of it probably stems from not noticing/caring, but also the passive-aggressive I'm-still-in-my-teens rebellious phase that so many men seem to possess. Why, I have no idea. I'm still trying to figure it out.

Before Mr. Kiz, most of the men I dated were sloppy. I didn't live with them, so I felt it wasn't any of my business to comment.

The two who weren't? One was ex-military. Lots of stuff, yes, but everything was arranged so neatly and at attention that at first glance you wouldn't notice.

The second was more of an OCD freak than my MIL. Come to think of it, that just may be the reason why Mr. Kiz rebels so much against anything to do with cleaning. Hmm.

Just to twist things around, I asked Mr. Kiz what drives him nuts about my cleaning habits. To wit:

1. That I HAVE to start cleaning up the kitchen counter, empty the dish drainer, and take out the trash the minute I come home from work. I just cannot come home and chill out like he thinks I should. I attribute it to still being in work mode, where everything has to be done This Very Second. Of course if all this stuff was done before I got home it'd be a moot point. Anyway...

2. That I vacuum at the most inopportune (to him) times. Look, I work mostly 10-hour days, 6 days a week. Be happy that I'm not sleeping or vegging out the entire time I'm not there. If I have a chunk of free time and I'm in the mood, I'm going to vacuum and/or clean, dammit, because otherwise it won't get done. We can't ask the dogs to stop shedding, can we? At least I don't do it after 9PM. Thank your lucky stars.

3. That I throw out stuff without looking at it first. I think this is more of a personal "sticky" more than anything else. Me, I love purging. As long as bills are paid and important papers are socked away, everything else is clutter. But Og forbid I do it while he's around *rolling eyes while wondering where she can get a tranquilizer dart*.

For the record, my husband works from home and takes care of my mother (she has ALZ) while I'm away at work. Even if he were inclined to clean, his time to do so would be (and is) limited because my mom must be watched every minute. I've been advised not to nag him about it. Meanwhile the clutter keeps growing, I'm almost never around...
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  #47  
Old 01-18-2006, 05:30 PM
wasson wasson is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Oh, I thought of something that bothers me about the girl. Last night, she made me dinner so I volunteered to do the dishes. She said something like "no, you'll do them wrong and I'll end up re-doing them." She's done this a few times, like when I try to clean something and she'll immediately follow me and do it her way, while complaining I'm a slob.

Either deal with how I clean or don't complain when I don't clean, ya know?
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  #48  
Old 01-19-2006, 01:45 AM
Telperien Telperien is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2004
I don't like to clean, except for vacuuming (the sound soothes me) and the dishwashing thing that I am ridiculed for far and wide. (Yes, I like to wash dishes. But when there's a perfectly good dishwashing machine that my mother begged me to buy, I want to put the dishes in there and let the machine take care of it. However, I don't, because I like a scream-free house more. Hell, it's her house. I'm just staying in it. Paying rent while I still can't find a job is cutting into my tiny wad of saved money just a bit, but I'll be damned if I say that to her. I'm not completely stupid, after all. But I digress.) However, I like stuff all over the house far less.

I don't like to dust, so I'll only do it when the dust gets ridiculous. Same for any other cleaning. As far as sheets go, I'm the only one who sleeps in the bed, and I take a shower and put on clean pajamas every night, so how yucky can the bed be getting, really? I change the sheets once a month, or twice if I'm feeling crazy. I clean only when things get to a grossness level that I can't handle. I think most people do this. It's just that our levels are different. Right now my bedroom is a horror of junk, and it's going to stay that way. There is nowhere to put the stuff piled up in it. The closet is neat, but crammed full. The attic is the same. I might look into getting a storage unit, because there's nowhere else to put the stuff, and the clutter is starting to make me wiggy.
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  #49  
Old 01-19-2006, 07:13 AM
Justin_Bailey Justin_Bailey is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasson
Either deal with how I clean or don't complain when I don't clean, ya know?
This needs to be repeated because it's the thing that drives me crazy the most.
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  #50  
Old 01-19-2006, 08:36 AM
explore like dora explore like dora is offline
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Why are men slobs?

Oooh, that's a tough one, but I'd say it's because women generalize.
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