Suppose you won the Lottery, how would you claim it?

[Omniscient]

I know there's been several threads polling on what Doper's would do if they won the lottery. Lots of gratuitous spending and creativity I'm sure. Needless to say I've entertained my own overly detailed fantasies about how my days following such a windfall, some quite altruistic others decidedly debauched.

Anyways, that simply doesn't illustrate what the Straight Dope is all about. My overly practical and analytic mind always leaves me to wonder exactly how I'd go about claiming said monies. The fact of the matter is that I have no idea!

Let me elaborate.

I'm not very knowledgeable about financial management and I've never been lucky enough to have enough income where managing it, beyond depositing and spending it that is, is a skill I need. I'm sure that if the average cat gets a lottery jackpot of say $75 million bucks, $35-40 mil after taxes and crap, he'd probably be best served to do something beyond sticking it into his bank account.

What's the best way to go about it? Do you get a lawyer before you even walk into the Lottery office? Do you hire a business manager off the bat? Call one of the big "wealth management" companies I always see advertising on TV? Do you just pick a guy out of the Yellow Pages? Do you call Uncle Clyde who does your taxes? What's your plan? If you don't have someone in your family who has experience with large sums of money where would you go about finding someone you can trust? What's your time-line....claim the prize and deal with it later, or lay low until you've got your ducks in a row?

I know other Dopers dwell on minutiae like this too.



_{Boy, can I ruin a fantasy with real life concerns or what?}

[Corii]

I would not claim the prize until I'd had a chance to talk with an accountant I know and hire a lawyer or financial planner recommended by him. This is assuming the prize amount is in millions, not nickels.

[Jonathan Chance]

Step one is call my lawyer. He'll do the claiming for me and minimize my exposure to the press.

Step two is take my broker to lunch that day. He should be pretty happy at the end of the conversation.

Just that simple. That's what professional types are there for.

[Kiros]

Originally Posted by Omniscient

...or lay low until you've got your ducks in a row?

This one. Lawyer as SOON as I find out that I won, the key to the whole thing. I can't imagine I'd tell anyone outside my immediate family and SO (and the Dope, of course!) unless I absolutely had to; lawyer would definitely claim the money, and everyone would be free to wonder Who Bought The Winning Ticket At Store X. I would want to at least maintain the option of continuing to live the life that I currently live, especially since I am so young - as nice as living off the interest sounds, I don't think I could "do nothing" for the next 50-70 years and really be happy with myself. I REALLY don't want everyone I have ever known coming to me and asking for money; over time, I'd probably do things like subsidize the college education of my entire extended family, but everything would be as absolutely discreet as possible. I would likely consult a number of financial advisors for investment advice, but I'm not sure I'd retain one permanently as a business manager. On the other hand, I'd probably develop an immediate and consuming stock market hobby/obsession with my free time. The investments would be split between a core low-risk predictable-yield "fallback", and a more expensive "fun and profit" fund. The ultimate goal would not to become that story of the person who wins it all and then loses their life while blowing it all.

_{I actually think it's more fun to think about playing the stock market and investment game with the winnings than to think about how many Hummers I'd buy. I'm a weirdo.}

[Omniscient]

There's a tangental question in here I think. I'm sure many people have accountants, investment advisors, and lawyers which they use regularly or at least have a history with. Still, I have to assume that in most cases the accountant who handles your average middle-class incomes and investing might not be perfectly equiped to handle ten of millions of dollars. The tax strategies for a computer consultants salary and a multi-million dollar lump sum vary widely. Do you continue to rely upon the folks you already know, or do you seek out a more robust support team? Do you necessarily want the lawyer who help close on your home handling the high-profile demands of something like this?

[Jonathan Chance]

Well, your accountant/lawyer/broker SHOULD be capable of such. That's one of the reasons I chose each. I've got goals and their job is to get me to a place where those goals are acheived.

[psychobunny]

I thought I was the only one who wondered about things like this. For example, while waiting to invest your money do you open multiple bank accounts at 100k each so that it is federally insured? Do you give most of it to one financial manager or do you have several in case one is crooked? How do you diversify that much money? Yeah-I have too mcuh time on my hands.

[psychobunny]

I thought I was the only one who wondered about things like this. For example, while waiting to invest your money do you open multiple bank accounts at 100k each so that it is federally insured? Do you give most of it to one financial manager or do you have several in case one is crooked? How do you diversify that much money? Yeah-I have too mcuh time on my hands.

[YaWanna]

I think it's fine to get your advice from your accountant, lawyer, etc., but I don't think you have much choice about who claims the winnings: I think you have to claim them personally, and I'm pretty sure that one of the terms and conditions of accepting the winnings is allowing the state lottery people (or whomever you won the money from) to advertise your name and likeness as a winner.

So much for the anonimity. But you are always free to get a new, unlisted phone number and/or move after you claim the winnings.

[psychobunny]

I thought I was the only one who wondered about things like this. For example, while waiting to invest your money do you open multiple bank accounts at 100k each so that it is federally insured? Do you give most of it to one financial manager or do you have several in case one is crooked? How do you diversify that much money? Yeah-I have too mcuh time on my hands.

[swampbear]

Gee, I wonder if psychobunny has ever wondered about this.

I do believe you have to claim the prize in person. I'd still consult my accountant for advice on who to trust with money management, investing etc. before claiming it though. He's good and I'd trust his advice.

[Mr. Goob]

Part of the deal is having your name and likeness spread far and wide for the publicity. Makes it hard for you to duck out on begging from the fifth cousin twice removed on your Aunt Bertha's side.

Time to look into off-shore tax free investments for me.

[Neptunian Slug]

Originally Posted by Omniscient

What's the best way to go about it? Do you get a lawyer before you even walk into the Lottery office? Do you hire a business manager off the bat? Call one of the big "wealth management" companies I always see advertising on TV? Do you just pick a guy out of the Yellow Pages? Do you call Uncle Clyde who does your taxes? What's your plan? If you don't have someone in your family who has experience with large sums of money where would you go about finding someone you can trust? What's your time-line....claim the prize and deal with it later, or lay low until you've got your ducks in a row?

I know other Dopers dwell on minutiae like this too.

Since Delaware allows you cash in your tickets anonymously, I would take it down there to cash it in. Probably get a good lawyer first to make sure that I have all my bases covered in terms of anonymity.

After that, I contact a couple of high net worth advisors and let them wine and dine me and the wife for a couple of weeks before choosing one to help manage my cash. With enough bread I could get UBS to fly me out to Switzerland for a week while I hear their pitch.

[Quartz]

Here in the U.K., we're allowed anonymity, but if a Brit wins the Euromillions draw on Friday - £80M / $120M tax already paid - you can bet that the paperazzi will be out in force in Watford. So I think a tandem parachute jump might be in order. Why not claim it in style?

[Sunspace]

Like psychobunny , I've wondered about this too.

In Ontario, to claim a large prize, you have to go in person to the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation's prize office in Toronto. This would not be difficult for me--just get off the subway at Yonge and Bloor and go out the south entrance, and it's at the top of the escalators--but there are a lot of people in Ontario for whom it's a two-day drive away.

The prize office looks like a very happy bank branch, with teller wickets and waiting chairs and all. That must be a fun job: sitting in a wicket and giving out money to people who come in.

I have heard that big prize winners get sopme kind of advice on how to deal with their new wealth, and can get a financial consultant, etc, right there, but I don't know how true that is. I tried googling for information on the experiences of large lottery winners, but the noise level in the results is unbelievable.

I presume the publicity is part of the deal as well, but I don't know for certain.

For mediam-large amounts--say 250 000 dollars, but not up in the millions, I expect I'd take my cheque, walk across the street to the bank, and just deposit it. For more, I'd probably ask for "private banking" and investment counsel. (I don't know what the minimum amounts for such things as private banking are.)

[Cunctator]

Winners' identities are not revealed here. I'd just get my ticket validated and bank the cheque. You don't have to tell anyone if you don't want to. Obviously your bank would know, as would the Tax office once you declared all of the extra earnings that your prize would generate. The prize itself however is received tax-free.

Then I'd get some good financial advice.

[Omniscient]

Originally Posted by E-Diddy

After that, I contact a couple of high net worth advisors and let them wine and dine me and the wife for a couple of weeks before choosing one to help manage my cash. With enough bread I could get UBS to fly me out to Switzerland for a week while I hear their pitch.

It never occurred to me that these guys did that type of stuff but it actually makes perfect sense. This sounds like a stellar way to go about things. You could get those companies into a bidding war.

Incidentally, I'd have to figure out a way to get me one of those super-secret Diamond/Courtesy Credit Cards that the uber-high rollers get. No limit and personal concierge to front my celebration while the lawyers and finance guys get the paper work rolling.

[Bryan Ekers]

Originally Posted by swampbear

Gee, I wonder if psychobunny has ever wondered about this.

He's writing multiple replies so he's covered in case one fails.



I'd inform trusted relatives and seek professional financial advice before claiming. I don't expect my lifestyle would change all that much, except to get a lot more comfortable and secure.

[Asimovian]

I don't understand legally how you can be forced to claim the ticket in person, although I've never read the fine print involved in winning the lottery.

Isn't it true that technically, whoever holds the ticket is the rightful owner? Why can't I draw up a contract with my attorney whereby he becomes the "rightful owner" of the ticket, and in return, he agrees to pay me the cash value of the winning ticket minus taxes and attorney's fees? What part of that isn't legal or playing by the rules?

[Sunspace]

Originally Posted by Asimovian

I don't understand legally how you can be forced to claim the ticket in person, although I've never read the fine print involved in winning the lottery.

Ontarian tickets certainly imply that you must collect in person. And non-anonymously, too, although maybe you can ask them not to give out your ID even if they know it. The photographs, names, and cities of big-prize winners listed on the OLGC website hint, however, that anonymitiy is not an option.

Isn't it true that technically, whoever holds the ticket is the rightful owner? Why can't I draw up a contract with my attorney whereby he becomes the "rightful owner" of the ticket, and in return, he agrees to pay me the cash value of the winning ticket minus taxes and attorney's fees? What part of that isn't legal or playing by the rules?

On the back of the scratch-and-win tickets I buy, there's a place to fill in your name and address for claiming a large prize. I presume that, in the event of a dispute, the prize would go to whoever was named there. OTOH, on occasions when I win $4 or $10 off the ticket, enough for another ticket or two, I just go to an OLGC retailer ( lottery booth/convenience store/etc) and collect my prize on the spot, no ID needed. For prizes over $200, though, I would have to fill in the back and send it to the OLGC offices in Sault Ste Marie... or pick the prize up in person in Toronto.

[Quartz]

If I were to manage to claim such a prize anonymously, I'm really not sure whom I'd tell. I might well not even tell my family - or anyone not bound by professional conduct - until I was settled. Camelot provide professional advice to big winners and it would be foolish to not at least listen.

The odds are 1 in 70 million per line, or, for me, 0 in 70 million, as I haven't bought a ticket.

[A.R. Cane]

First, my brother and I have agreed to split if either of us wins.
I wouldn't fool w/ any investment advisors. Put a chunk in jumbo CD's, some in
various length treasuries, some in mutuals. Open several savings accounts for
liquidity, plus a couple money market accounts.
Before I collected I'd clean out my house, throw away most of the stuff, put most of
the rest in storage. Then check into a good hotel w/ arrangement that my occupancy
was incommunicado.
While I was making the financial arrangements, I'd also be making travel plans. In a
couple weeks, I'm gone. See you in a year or so.

[Asimovian]

Originally Posted by Sunspace

Ontarian tickets certainly imply that you must collect in person. And non-anonymously, too, although maybe you can ask them not to give out your ID even if they know it. The photographs, names, and cities of big-prize winners listed on the OLGC website hint, however, that anonymitiy is not an option. On the back of the scratch-and-win tickets I buy, there's a place to fill in your name and address for claiming a large prize. I presume that, in the event of a dispute, the prize would go to whoever was named there. OTOH, on occasions when I win $4 or $10 off the ticket, enough for another ticket or two, I just go to an OLGC retailer ( lottery booth/convenience store/etc) and collect my prize on the spot, no ID needed. For prizes over $200, though, I would have to fill in the back and send it to the OLGC offices in Sault Ste Marie... or pick the prize up in person in Toronto.

I'm not trying to nitpick, seriously. But I still don't understand how any of that prevents me from having my lawyer take the ticket. Assuming I never filled out any of that information, he can fill it out himself and claim the ticket as the legal owner. The lottery commission would have absolutely no knowledge that we had a contract whereby he'd turn over the money to me after he'd legally claimed it.

[A.R. Cane]

Originally Posted by Asimovian

I'm not trying to nitpick, seriously. But I still don't understand how any of that prevents me from having my lawyer take the ticket. Assuming I never filled out any of that information, he can fill it out himself and claim the ticket as the legal owner. The lottery commission would have absolutely no knowledge that we had a contract whereby he'd turn over the money to me after he'd legally claimed it.

So you're going to trust this lawyer to write up a contract whereby he takes ownership of a multimillion dollar lotto ticket and then gives you all of it back, minus a fee I assume. Good luck w/ that.

[Asimovian]

Originally Posted by A.R. Cane

So you're going to trust this lawyer to write up a contract whereby he takes ownership of a multimillion dollar lotto ticket and then gives you all of it back, minus a fee I assume. Good luck w/ that.

*sigh*

I understand your point, and yes, I'm taking a "perfect world" view of this scenario. Hell, if I'm going to fantasize about winning the lottery, I can dream that I can find a perfectly legitimate lawyer who will honor a contract. However, none of that has anything to do with my actual question.

I'm just trying to figure out if that's a valid method of skirting the publicity of having to claim your ticket in person.

[Shakes]

Am I the only one that would be so freaking paranoid that any investment advisor (or lawyer for that matter) I got would be out to rob me blind?

[John Carter of Mars]

Originally Posted by Asimovian

I'm not trying to nitpick, seriously. But I still don't understand how any of that prevents me from having my lawyer take the ticket. Assuming I never filled out any of that information, he can fill it out himself and claim the ticket as the legal owner. The lottery commission would have absolutely no knowledge that we had a contract whereby he'd turn over the money to me after he'd legally claimed it.

Whoever holds a ticket is the legal owner of said ticket. Think about it, it won't work any other way.
If you hand your ticket to your lawyer and he skips, what are you going to do, sue for breach of contract and get your money in eight years or so if he doesn't go to Brazil? Following him to the office to cash in with weaponry in your hand seems like it would defeat the anonymity purpose.

Now, assume you lawyer decides to be honest with you. He claims the ticket as his own, and they deduct 40% of your gazillion dollars on the spot, and credit it to the lawyer's tax account. Then your lawyer deducts his 10% fee.
Then the lawyer pays you the remaining 50% for "Services Rendered" or some crap. Then YOU pay 40% taxes on that income. Under the best case scenario, you wind up with 30% of your winnings. Best to cash the ticket yourself. Besides, wealth, like rank, has its privileges. No need to worry about being anonymous, 'cause a rich bastard can tell anybody he wants to to fuck off.

Best thing to do is go, cash in your ticket and deposit the check in a savings account at your bank until you can get the other details worked out. Finance ain't rocket science. A.R. Cane nailed a good, simple investment system in one short post.

Originally Posted by A.R. Cane

Put a chunk in jumbo CD's, some in
various length treasuries, some in mutuals. Open several savings accounts for
liquidity, plus a couple money market accounts.

'
There need be no more to it than that.

[RickJay]

Here in Ontario you don't pay tax on lottery winnings. If it says it's a $20 million jackpot and you have the winning ticket, you walk in, give them the ticket, and they give you a check for twenty million bucks. Then they take a few photos and publicize it and such.

I'd just drive to the lottery office - it's not far from here - pick up the check then go to my bank and deposit it. Then I'd worry about financial advice. I want the money in my account.

In any event, it's not that complicated. Buy a house, buy a few reasonable cars, pay off the debt, set aside some crazy money, and go to my investments guy and have him help me spread it around.

[Omniscient]

Originally Posted by RickJay

Here in Ontario you don't pay tax on lottery winnings. If it says it's a $20 million jackpot and you have the winning ticket, you walk in, give them the ticket, and they give you a check for twenty million bucks. Then they take a few photos and publicize it and such.

There's still income tax to be paid at the end of the year, correct?

[Bryan Ekers]

Originally Posted by Omniscient

There's still income tax to be paid at the end of the year, correct?

Only on the interest you might collect from your investments, not on the $20 mill itself. If you decided to stuff your winnings into your mattress and derive no actual income from it, the tax impact is zero.

[Mr. Goob]

I know somebody I could ask for advice. I heard one of my high school teachers won the lottery for $33 million dollars. She and her husband built an ugly faux Victorian house (with blue vinyl siding) here in town.

I'd listen to what she has to say and run screaming in the other direction.

[NurseCarmen]

Aside from the lawyers and accountans, etc., once all my ducks were in a row, I would wait for the busiest friggen newsday to cash it in. Minnesota requires that you can't remain anonymous.

[ParentalAdvisory]

In tens and twentys.

[saoirse]

Originally Posted by Asimovian

*sigh*

I understand your point, and yes, I'm taking a "perfect world" view of this scenario. Hell, if I'm going to fantasize about winning the lottery, I can dream that I can find a perfectly legitimate lawyer who will honor a contract. However, none of that has anything to do with my actual question.

I'm just trying to figure out if that's a valid method of skirting the publicity of having to claim your ticket in person.

Asimovian, I almost hate to do this to you. The tax liability on the winnings would vary widely according to what you did with the money. You could take your money and see a financial advisor about that. Your lawyer, however, can't do anything with the money but honor his contract, which means the taxes will be pretty stiff.

[Neptunian Slug]

Originally Posted by Omniscient

It never occurred to me that these guys did that type of stuff but it actually makes perfect sense. This sounds like a stellar way to go about things. You could get those companies into a bidding war.

Incidentally, I'd have to figure out a way to get me one of those super-secret Diamond/Courtesy Credit Cards that the uber-high rollers get. No limit and personal concierge to front my celebration while the lawyers and finance guys get the paper work rolling.

Actually I hadn't thought about it either until I saw a piece in the Financial Times (Sorry, no link) where a reported posed as a high-net-worth client. After grilling the guy to figure out how he came into $15 million they treated him pretty well.

And why bother with getting the super secret comp cards in Vegas when your new potential financial advisor could probably make a couple of calls and get you hooked up in Monte Carlo?

[FairyChatMom]

My brother is a CPA and has been CFO of several companies. I'd talk to him - I trust him and I expect he could recommend who'd take care of me.

[Askia]

I'd do so by ticket holder proxy for publicity purposes, in the cheapest and most circumspect way possible.

[Annie-Xmas]

Annonymously? Shit, I'd take out a full page ad in the New Jersey Record and New York Times--I AM RICH AND YOU ARE NOT!

[Unintentionally Blank]

Originally Posted by ParentalAdvisory

In tens and twentys.

I was thinking 'in nickels'.

[Omniscient]

Originally Posted by E-Diddy

And why bother with getting the super secret comp cards in Vegas when your new potential financial advisor could probably make a couple of calls and get you hooked up in Monte Carlo?

No, this is what I'm talking about.

[McDeath_the_Mad]

I work for a the British Columbia Lottery Corporation.

In Canada, you have to collect your winnings in person. And you have to have your picture taken with a big-ass cheque if we want to take it. That clause is on the back of every lottery ticket sold, usually every time a big winner wins they try to fight that clause but it's never been over-turned.

One bright side to winning the lottery in Canada, it's 100% tax free! Our jackpots don't get quite as high as the big Power Ball lotteries, but one of our national lotteries (6/49) was over $50 million a few months ago.

A word to the wise, if you are buying tickets in a pool (with coworkers, friends, family, etc.) use a Group Agreement!! A few months ago a group of 9 workers at an A&W fast food restaurant won $15 million dollars. within 48 hours another 2 coworkers said they were in the pool, and then within another 2 days another 2 workers said they were entitled to the winnings. So basically we let the courts decide. If the original 9 were smart they probably should have split the prize 13 ways, because even if they win their case I'm sure their lawyers fees will end up costing them more than splitting the $15 million.

MtM

[Campion]

Originally Posted by Annie-Xmas

Annonymously? Shit, I'd take out a full page ad in the New Jersey Record and New York Times--I AM RICH AND YOU ARE NOT!

Amen. I don't get why you'd want to be circumspect. How can I sell my soon-to-be-written book, "How to Win the Lottery in Three Easy Steps," without publicity about my great lottery win?

I mean, please, win scads of cash without bragging about it in an unseemly fashion? I'm an American, damnit! It's my constitutional right!

[RickJay]

Originally Posted by Omniscient

There's still income tax to be paid at the end of the year, correct?

No. Lottery wins in Canada are tax free. I believe you may have to pay a small withholding tax when you receive gigantic amounts of dough, like 3%, but you get it back, IIRC.

Basically, if you win $20 million, you get $20 million, end of story.

The rationale, I believe, is that the government's running the game and makes all the profit anyway.