I just watched the Loose Change video and am more intrigued than ever about some of the events surrounding 9/11:
The Pentagon appears to have been hit by a missle, with a 16’ diameter hole and no evidence of wings or engines.
The sole remains fo Flight 93 were scattered pieces of metal over 8 miles, with no actual crash site.
Numerous sources, including the phone companies and the aviation industry claim there is no ability for cell phone connections over 8000 feet. One study put the likelihood at 0.006%.
A passport of the hijacker who flew the plane into the WTC was found intact by the FBI a few blocks from the WTC site. In spite of the fact that the plane was powderized, and the “black box” was all but destroyed, a paper-based passport left hsi pocket and flew out of the building and fell 80+ stories without being seared or marred.
I have no answers/alternative explanations, but cannot accept much of what has been presented a “what has happened” that day.
That really doesn’t surprise me all that much. Weird shit like that happens in other disasters of great magnitude. Think of huge tornados, for example-- sometimes they’ll leave a teacup undisturbed on a table while destroying the rest of the house.
A few years back, a local gas business suffered an explosion. Everyone marvelled that papers had been blown from the office and were scattered around the site, completely undamaged, even though the office itself was utterly destroyed.
I do agree that it seems remarkable that a specific passport of significance was spared, but it’s not really all that impossible. The hijackers were in the front of the plane, meaning there wasn’t much material surrounding them which would have obstructed an object being thrown by the force. I’m not sure of the phyisics of the impact, but it stands to reason that things would have been thrown from the plane in the instant before it exploded into fire. The concussion wave, and even the air currents generated by the blast of fire could have done it.
i’ve heard of all of these things, and a few very nuttier ones.
i wouldn’t be a bit surprised if they shot that plane down over pennsylvania. that would have been the right thing to do. given the situation, that is the obvious answer. if it did come to light that that plane were shot down, i’d be firmly on the president’s side on that one. the only thing i wouldn’t like, obviously, is how they’d be covering it up. (assuming that is, in fact, what actually happened).
if a missile did actually hit the pentagon, where did it (or would it have) come from? i mean, if it actually WERE a missile, there’d have to have been an al-qaeda plane that flew over the united states unmolested and got off a missile on a very strategic target. that just SOUNDS close to impossible, if not, very implausible. what’s the explanation for the missile other than “no aircraft parts visible”?
That’s where the really weird part of the conspiracy comes in: the military shot up their own with a missile so they could blame it on Al-Qaida.
So, where exactly DID Flight 77 go if it didn’t hit the Pentagon? Amazingly, not a single air traffic controller disputes the events of that day, and they pretty much got to see it happen in real-time on their scopes. They didn’t see a jumbo fly into the ocean, nobody else did either, no bodies have washed up, no debris has washed up, so where did it go?
Do a search, these have been debunked in the past numerous times (although the passport one is new to me). I’m surprised you didn’t mention another favorite – the buildings looked like they were blown up by demolition, ya know?
I live less then 5 miles from where that plane went down, that is still the talk of this area. Many people think that was the case. I think it may of been possible. My scenerio
Flight 93 on its way to D.C.
Military Jet scrambled to intercept.
Waits until Flight 93 is over cow country.
Jet shoots down Flight 93.
About to announce they where forced to shoot down a hijacked passenger plane.
They get word that some people phoned from Flight 93 and may of actually been in control or about to gain control of the plane.
Decide it is best to hush about shooting down the plane, as Americans are latched on to the hero’s of Flight 93. Not to mention the doubts of people who would question the decision in hindsight.
I would not like the idea of them keeping it silent if it did happen. But I would’ve supported them had they admitted shooting down 93 with the information they had available at the time. (Hijacked planes being used to attack buildings)
I would guess that if the military did shoot down Flight 93 eventually it would have to come out as air traffic controllers would of seen the military jet, the airman who fired the missile, the chain of command who issued the order, the bomb loader/unloader at the air base.
Then again, it could of been taken down during the attempt at taking back the plane from the Flight 93 passengers.
There’s been some good documentaries on the events of 9/11, including one last night that was on the History Channel (I think). Basically, the military jets were very far away and had no chance of stopping the plane from getting to Washington. There was also a lot of confusion and lack of communication. Our government was embarassingly out of whack.
I have been to the scene. A few times actually, and cannot see where the craters have anything to do with the possibility as even a plane shot down has to hit the ground.
As for the military jets being so far away, Johnstown PA (about 20-25miles away) has Apache helicopters, which can be equipped with air to air missiles. As well as possibly staying off radar? Not sure on that though as this is just a possibility not facts. Not saying it did happen, only that is could happen.
Oh I knew it wasn’t vapoorized (sorry watched Envy last night) I was just throwing out a theory on what may of happened. Though I do not “preach” it because it is unlikely to be the truth. The truth is more likely to be the official story. But it doesn’t always mean it is.
Ever hear of OperationNorthwoods {PDF}?
I’m not saying that’s what happened here, but they were willing to do exactly this kind of thing to get us into a war with Cuba.
What? No they weren’t: they had a plan and everything by which it could be done, and they didn’t do it. Clearly they were unwilling to do it: they were only willing to propose it. Very different.
As for the conspiracy: I defy anyone to name an event of this millennium that’s been studied more exhaustively than the 9/11 attacks. So far, it’s been the biggest single event shaping our world this millennium. When some Pentagon idiots propose to kill US folks to start a war with Cuba, it gets out unambiguously; how on earth could they keep an actual attack secret?
This enters strange loop territory: in order to believe in this conspiracy, you have to believe in a conspiracy that can fabricate mountains of evidence, literally thousands if not millions of tons of evidence, to support the illusion. If they can fabricate the thousands of tons of evidence that supports the illusion, surely it’d be a snap for them to fabricate the few hundred (if that) pounds of evidence that undermine the illusion; so what makes you think you can trust the undermining documents? Strange loop.
In case Airman Doors’s link was not enough, there is this one from a webboard with a somewhat conspiratorial bent:
Suffice it to say, the wings won’t do much, the engines did. The conspiracy guys had to comb through a lot of photos showing Pentagon to get one that was so obscured by smoke and firefighting foam to make the hole look small.
The same can be said of just about every plane that crashes into the ground.
Numerous pilots may snicker at these studies. Also, in the case of the longest lasting connections, the plane phone was the one in use. Guess what it is designed to do!
Apparently, some letters on the plane (written on much more vulnerable unlaminated paper) were also found and delivered. It has been pointed out that patches from the flight crew of our two destroyed shuttles have been found. People need to understand that things are not neat and clean ‘explosion burn all’ in real life.
Did the FBI really need the passport for any identification? I mean, the only time I hear it even mentioned is in goofy conspiracy theorists who act as if it was used as a smoking gun by the FBI!
Bad ones. 9/11 conspiracists have gotten so bad that the more ‘rational’ (spit) among them have retreated to a minimalist position wherein the CIA manages to convince the Arabs to attack the US. Of course, they now accuse anyone who brings up the ‘No plane at the Pentagon’ of being part of the CIA’s ‘disinfo campaign’.
In any case, none of the conspracists claims hold together.
I’m guessing this is a RAW quote, right? I shoulda credited Wilson with the Strange Loop term: I read it in a true-false quiz he designed and which was probably the least bullshitty thing I’ve ever read by him :).
