Opinions on International Baccalaureate program

In My Humble Opinion
1

Hi,

My stepdaughter has been accepted into the International Baccalaureate program at a high school in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada (as well as into a gifted high school program). To be more precise, she has been accepted into the IB preparation program (grade 9 and 10), as the IB diploma program is in grade 11 and 12. She is rather torn by the decision between the IB program and the gifted program. The school offering IB is on the other side of town which will mean she will need to ride the bus for an hour from our house or for 1.5 hours from her mother’s house to get to school. So the idea of a 2 to 3 hour daily commute is rather daunting especially when the program is quite demanding (and includes an average of 4 hours a week on Creative, Active, and Service pursuits in addition to time spent on school work.). The high school offering the gifted program is much closed to home so the commute is not an issue; as well, the gifted program does not have the same demands for participation in other activities.

While we are not making any decisions for her re the choice between IB and gifted, we are trying to get enough info for her to make an informed decision.
So my questions are - for those of you who have done the program or who have kids in the program

  • was the program worth it?
  • was all of your free time taken up with school work and related IB activities?
  • would you do it again? why or why not?
  • do you think it made a difference in getting accepted into a university?
  • any other comments?

Thanks for any input!

2

Ok, I started out full IB, intending to graduate with the diploma. Ended up graduating with just the partial one (I can’t remember what’s called anymore… the one you get if you graduate with 3 IB classes). I will also relay my friend’s experiences who graduated with the diploma.

Was it worth it? Ummm for me no. I ended up with little time to have a social life/part time job/other extracurricular activies. Which is why I ended up partially dropping out.

Was all your free time taken up? See above

Would I do it again? Yes, only because I did it the partial way. I think many of friends who got the diploma wish they didn’t. Could have just taken AP (advancd placement) classes and had much more fun throughout high school. I had friends who commuted for the program and it just took a toll on them at the end of the day.

Does it matter to universities? I think not really. So I had friends who were getting B’s and C’s in their IB classes while I was getting A’s in my advanced placement classes… and ultimately I ended up going to a better university then a lot of my peers. I think universities def respect the IB program, but they aren’t going to pick an B/C IB student over an A AP student. Also, universities aren’t looking for the straight-A student that didn’t do any extracurricular activities throughout high school.

Any other comments? Honestly… I don’t think commuting for 2-3 hours a day is worth the IB program. The program itself is already very stressful, and adding the commute will only make it worse. I only lived 7 blocks away from my school and I still felt like I never had time for anything.

If she decides to go and decided to do a partial IB thing like I did, stick with IB English all the way. Once you get to college, term papers are a piece of cake. You end up writing like several 20 page papers throughout the IB program and you already have to use MLA, etc. IB math is good as well.

Hope this helps!

3

I graduated from IB (full program) in 2004.

Was it worth it? In my case, yes. I was a student who “never works up to her full potential”. I wasn’t really encouraged to do IB and was nearly kicked out between junior and senior year. Everyone around me was certain that I would fail my exams (I got a 2 on the only exam [SL art] that I took junior year), and that I should give up. Because I’m extremely stubborn that actually motivated me to work hard, and twenty-seven exam points later, I proved them all wrong. So, yeah, I benefitted from it in my own way.

Did I have any free time? More than I should have. One trick: Find ways to make things you’ll do anyway (orchestra, stage crew, sports, etc) count for CAS hours. Study in groups, because you’ll get some studying done plus, it’ll eliminate the “I don’t want to study, I want to hang out with my friends” thing.

Would I do it again? If I for some reason had to go through high school again, yes. It made it a little bit more tolerable - somehow it made me feel a little bit more connected to the world outside of that one little suburb I lived in. Plus, the diploma candidates got immense bragging/sympathy rights: our TOK class met in a ‘period zero’ before school started, which meant we had to be there at 7 AM, an hour before everyone else.

Does it help getting into college: Yes. Especially if you’re me and wanted to go to school overseas.

4

I graduated with a full IB diploma.

There was really no question that I was going to do IB, because those were the most advanced classes my school offered. They also had AP, but those were the easier classes. It was not significantly harder than my previous schoolwork (which was IB prep) and I did not have to work my ass off all the time. I did work my ass off sometimes, but not to the point of wanting to quit.

My IB class started out with about a dozen kids, and more than half quit by the end of the year. I’m pretty sure at least five, including me, got the full diploma. There were a lot of kids in the various IB classes, but we were the only ones doing full IB.

I think it was worth it. I loved my TOK class, and colleges are mostly interested if you took the most challending courses offered by your school. The requirements for outside stuff can mostly be filled by regular extracurriculars.

5

Due to a move from one state to another, my daughter didn’t have the opportunity to apply for IB, but she had several friends who were in it. She noted that they didn’t have the time that she did to pursue non-academic activities, including a job, volunteering (she worked at a battered women’s shelter and she tutored at an elementary school), certain electives, and a social life. She did take honors and AP classes, and was accepted into her first choice college, so not going IB didn’t hurt her.

Had she wanted to follow that program, I’d have supported her efforts, but she chose what I thought was a more well-rounded high school experience. For what it’s worth, this was in Clay County, Florida, which is just south of Jacksonville.

6

Commuting is a waste of time that could otherwise be put to good use.

7

In Ontario, general admissions to universities are primarily made on the basis of grades, without respect to particular highschools or programs. When it comes to general admissions, before a university applicant’s program specific c.v. is considered, the student must first make the general cut in competition against all other general applicants. Being a big fish in a small pond is a good thing, for when it comes to the first cut, the only thing that counts is grades, not whether a child’s highschool program was regular, gifted, or IB.

The second cut deals with specific university program admissions, as differentiated from general university admissions. Specific university program admissions consider a student’s personal background, in which a gifted highschool program or an IB program would be considered, but please note that specific university programs more often than not have program specific admission criteria, rather than general criteria. Have a look at the various specific university program admissions criteria: http://www.ouac.on.ca/info/PDFs/Additional_Criteria.pdf .

For example, if your child were to apply to the Lakehead University outdoor adventure leadership program, a c.v. showing lots of involvement in wilderness activities would be more useful than an IB or gifted highschool program. If you child were to apply to the University of Toronto music program, a c.v. showing musical accomplishment would be more useful than an IB or gifted highschool program.

An IB or gifted highschool program can be valuable to the extent that both should expose a student to areas of study and experience that a student in a regular program might not experience. If such exposure is directed to a specific discipline, then that would be very helpful on a c.v. directed to admission into a specific university program related to that discipline.

When considering the effect on your child’s university admission, the first question is what specific disciplines will your child be exposed to in the gifted program, what specific disciplines will your child be exposed to in the IB program, and which of these disciplines is your child likely to take up with a passion.

The second question, if all things are equal with respect to the above, is which location will permit your child to advance in a given discipline. Quite frankly, I think that sitting on a bus for extended periods is a detriment to development in a specific discipline. Sit on a bus or practice piano. Sit on a bus or train for track. Sit on a bus or intern with a charity. Sit on a bus or develop a video portfolio. Unless you child develops the ability to do homework while sitting on the bus, the commute might negate the benefits that one program might have over another.

Finally, what about being a kid? A gifted program or an IB program should enrich a child’s life, making school both a challenge and a joy. Sitting on a bus for extended periods can cancel out the joy, and turn the challenge into a grind.

8

Whoops! That should read “Laurentian,” not “Lakehead.” Too many universities beginning with L at this end of the province, too many beginning with W at the other end, and too many colleges beginning with C throughout. (Which on a cold winter night with one’s car’s battery dead in Western’s Huron lot might lead one to call for a tow truck to Waterloo’s Hagey lot, and then call an hour later to enquire as to why the tow truck had not arrived. :smack: )

9

I graduated in 2001, full IB program with 40 points, but I’m in Finland, so take my answers with that in mind.

  • Yes, in my opinion the program was worth it. In my case, studying HL Economics gave me an edge when it came to studying economics at university level. In the case of friends of mine who are currently in med school, studying IB level physics, chemistry and biology gave them an edge over other applicants because we went deeper into the material than in ordinary Finnish high school classes. Also, many of my classmates are now studying abroad because they got good marks in the IB program and that made them more desirable to universities like Oxford.

  • nope, I had free time as well. There were a few times when I really felt quite stressed, such as when Extended Essay deadlines were looming or I had to finish three Economics Internal Assessments in a week. Those were just because I’m a lazy little bastard, though, and have to really kick myself to get started on things. Final exams, of course, were a hassle, but in the end, they went quite smoothly. We had a full month to study with no school at that time, so I was able to focus completely on learning.
    Our IB students formed quite a tight-knit community, as well, so a lot of my spare time was spent with them. In a school with 100 students doing the normal Finnish matriculation exam and 25 doing the IB, we were a bit of a freaky bunch, but we made some great friends.
    Of course, I had more assignments and homework than students doing the normal Finnish matriculation exam. Since these counted as part of the final examination grade, we had to spend quite a lot of time on them to polish them up. Also, our week schedules were often more full than “normal” students’. In the Finnish system, there are a certain amount of courses that you have to take in each subject in order to qualify for the matriculation exam. The school year is divided into six periods, with different courses taught each period. This meant that some of my “normal” friends would have periods where they had maybe 15 hours of school each week, whereas the IB students’ schedules were very full during the first year. (Of course, during IB2, I had a period where I had school from 12 to 3 on Tuesdays and Fridays…)

  • I would do it again, definitely. I think a part of it has to do with the fact that I never even thought about not doing the IB. I had been to an international school for 9 years and there the IB was the only real alternative (the other one was an internal diploma, which would have been worth squat in the real world). When I returned from Texas, I had no doubt in my mind that I wanted to participate in something more internationally recognized.
    I think doing the IB gave me deeper knowledge in the subjects I took, even though the choice of subjects was more narrow than in the Finnish system. It gave me enough of a challenge to keep me interested in going to school and motivated in actually doing something since for a long time I’d been able to cruise through classes without really trying. It was interesting, I had good teachers, I made good friends, and I’ve since gone back to substitute for my English and Economics teachers. Yeah, I’d do it again.

  • in my case, no, actually. This is because the IB results only come in around July, whereas university application times are usually geared to correspond with the Finnish matriculation exam, whose results come in around May. We got corresponding points for the IB subjects, but based on our predicted grades. I applied into my university via the SAT test because I was originally going to study in English. (I then realized that I had studied in English for 13 years now and decided to try something different for a change.) For classmates of mine, though, their predicted grades definitely gave them an edge when applying. Some classmates applied the following year using their final grades.

I think the IB is definitely worth it, but it takes a certain kind of student to pull it off. In my case, I’ve always been quick to learn and good at languages, so that helped right from the start, but I struggled greatly with deadlines because I’m a chronic procrastinator. For someone with a healthy sense of schedules and a good organizational mind, it’s a great way to get an in-depth knowledge of certain subjects.

10

I started out in full IB, but had to drop the chemistry and math parts due to my atrocious grades.
So I finished with Biology, Social Studies (History) and English.
The impression we were given at the time was that if we got high enough marks on our IB exams we could skip some university classes, depending on the university and the subject. I managed to talk my way out of first year history, which was fairly helpful, as it was just a review of Western Civ which would have been beyond boring.

IB classes were definitely the way to go for me, as my school didn’t offer a gifted program as well, and the few classes I had in the “regular” stream were less than challenging. The religion class where 80% of my class didn’t speak english stands out in my mind as a particular waste of time.
However, it’s clear she has a choice of a gifted program as well.

The one thing I think IB helped me with was in the writing and preparation of papers. That was a real advantage once I started university.

It’s certainly true that universities are far more interested in the actual grades earned - so it’s definitely a factor to consider.

As someone who had a long commute to and from school (though not quite an hour and a half) it does get very exhausting, especially in the winter when you hardly ever get to see the sun.

11

My son did the IB program, graduated in '98, and thought it was very much worth it. While other freshman engineering students were struggling with the material, he was not and was making a high GP, double majored in EE and history, got Latin honors, and is now working as an EE and very satisfied about the work he’s doing.

He has also continued to be an activist–but that started before the CAS hours and he’d be doing that regardless.

IB was a lot of work, very demanding, but also very realistic in terms of real-world work standards (particularly for jobs where, if you get it wrong, the consequences are dire). He still seemed to have more than enough time to play Doom, andhe was on the school’s tennis team all four years and cross-country a couple of years.

Still–that’s an awfully long commute. Even if you could do the reading on public transportation, it just seems like too much travel time.

12

- was the program worth it?
Sure… But since I didn’t have a choice, this is like asking “were the last two years of school worth it?”
- was all of your free time taken up with school work and related IB activities?
Not at all… but I wouldn’t have liked to be doing anything else in addition to the IB. On the whole, my IB years were probably the most entertaining of my school career. Revising for six exams at once was the only thing which approached stressful. At any rate, you soon find out what ‘workload’ really means when you get to university.
- would you do it again? why or why not?
If I had the choice, I definitely would have done the British A-Levels. I’d still probably make that choice. If I’m going into the UK university system (which I did), it makes sense to come from the UK school system. That way the syllabuses match up, and you don’t find yourself lacking skills or knowledge that everyone else has. However, I am glad that I have a wider base of knowledge than I would have otherwise. Most of my understanding of modern society comes from IB History and Economics HL.
- do you think it made a difference in getting accepted into a university?
Possibly… I noticed that IB grade requirements seem slightly lower than the A-Level requirement. That said, there isn’t exactly a lot of competition for places to study Maths in the UK.
- any other comments?
IB Mathematics is a strange beast. There is a huge focus on the TI-83, which is a fairly powerful graphical calculator. If you then go on to study a mathematics related subject, you’ll suddenly find a good number of things you need to learn properly instead of relying on the calculator.
The IB is very transparent – you always know exactly how you’re being graded. However, this encourages students to write essays that satisfy the IB, but aren’t good in any other context. Nor do they always reflect your own views – there’s a lot of what students at my school referred to as “bullshitting”. That said, writing along guidelines isn’t a bad skill to have, and you certainly learn how to structure and present essays.
There are a lot of tricks you can use to cut down your workload – the best teachers know these. Unfortunately, these are oversights in the IB syllabus, not genuine tricks.
Theory of Knowledge didn’t work at my school. IMO, you can’t force philosophy onto people who aren’t naturally philosophical.

I also did the IB preparation program (MYP), which isn’t much different from ordinary high school (though I assume it has more structure). There are a lot of projects and essays, which almost makes it more hectic than the IB – the MYP Personal Project is of similar magnitude to the IB Extended Essay. Finally, beware of the Areas of Interaction – some half-baked philosophy which you’re supposed to link into as many pieces of work as possible.