Appropriate response (people complaining about adopting children from overseas)

[BobT]

My brother and his wife have in the past few years have adopted children from a foreign country (the particular country isn't germane to my question).

I have shown friends and co-workers some photos from a recent family trip showing off my brother's family, which also contains two children of their own. Some people in response to looking at the photos look at me and say "Why did they go adopt children from another country? Why didn't they want to help out children here in the United States?"

Without wanting to get into a debate about the merits of international adoption, is there a better way to respond to this other than my usual, "You would have to ask my brother about that?"

I've never found this to be a particularly appropriate response to make when you're showing family photos to people, but it seems to happen not infrequently.

[StGermain]

I think your response is perfectly valid. You might also mention that it's hard to find infants to adopt in the US. Or tell them it's none of their business. People can be so rude!

StG

[Jonathan Chance]

It is rude, I admit. But brushing off the question is probably the best approach. In the end, who gives a fuck what they think.

Though I find the question interesting. Lady Chance and I have two small girls (5 and 1) and are considering adopting one or two more children. She doesn't want to carry any more (40 is looming for both of us) and God knows there's enough needy kids in the world.

[BobT]

I've been sloughing off questions like this my whole life, so I guess I should keep up the good sloughing?

[Miller]

"Kids need good homes, no matter what country they were born in."

[tomndebb]

There is no appropriate response that does not lower you to their level (Selenastrum capricornutum or associated life forms).

As one who did adopt locally, it would never occur to me to ask why someone sought kids from overseas. (If you want to be snide (and you know your target), you might ask how many American kids they have adopted.) I still vote for keeping your current response.

[panache45]

How do they know the kids are adopted, and not from a former marriage?

Not that it matters; they're still being rude, and don't deserve an answer. (Or you could tell them it's cheaper these days to outsource pregnancies)

[Dr. Drake]

"Would you rather that these children be condemned to a (Guatemalan / Romanian / Chinese / Burgundian) orphanage instead?"

"Oh, have you adopted orphans in the U.S.? How many?"

"Our grandfather killed a Ghanaian / Indian / Serbian / Taiwanese man in World War II and this is our version of atonement."

"They were told they couldn't adopt at home because they were too old / poor / gay / ethnically mismatched / religious."

"You don't buy American orphans, you only rent them."

That said, I think the best response is a shocked silence followed by, "I'm sorry, did I hear you correctly?"

[Harriet the Spry]

You might try "Well, they are Earthlings."

[anu-la1979]

"I didn't realise nationality mattered when it came to being a parent."

I could come up with dozens of funny responses but then god knows you might offend an ass that made the stupid statement in the first place.

Seriously, WTF goes through people's minds sometimes? People show me pictures of their kids and sometimes they look like the ass-end of a baboon in heat and the only thing is I say is the generically appropriate "cute kid!"

[Shagnasty]

"Oh, the were fertile but they think white babies look like little albino monkeys and nobody wants to look at that."

[elelle]

BobT, One retort that might give some pause and thought: "Our family wanted to give an opportunity to someone who might not otherwise have had that. And we're so glad to have Baby Yum in our lives! Isn't it amazing that a needy child from so far away can find a good loving home in the US? "

All the yaddas can just take a hike.

[Manda JO]

Originally Posted by BobT

I have shown friends and co-workers some photos from a recent family trip showing off my brother's family, which also contains two children of their own. Some people in response to looking at the photos look at me and say "Why did they go adopt children from another country? Why didn't they want to help out children here in the United States?"

I would cut people some slack: it's easy to say something without thinking that COULD be construed as offensive, or it could be construed as simply awkward. For example, when you differentiate between your brother's "own" children and his "adopted" ones, people could assume that that means that you think somehow the biological children are somehow more "his". But you don't mean that--it's just an awkward subject without a set vocabulary, and so sometimes we say things with implications we don't mean.

In the same way, people may not be trying to suggest that there was anything WRONG with your brother's choice, they may just honestly be curious about the process and what options are out there. My sister gave up a daughter in an open adoption, and whenever that comes up, people often have really weird questions, but it's best to assume that they are honestly curious. If, instead, they are TRYING to make offensive implications, rest assured that they will make those same implications less and less ambigiously as time goes on, revealing their true charecter.

[sandra_nz]

How about just saying "I'd assume that was their personal and private choice" and staring at the person long and hard till they feel reeeeeeeeal uncomfortable.

Jeez some people are rude!

Although I do find it funny when my friends/acquaintances first see a picture of my mum and go 'wow, she looks nothing like you, have you ever thought you might be adopted?' to which the only truthful response is 'actually, I am'. I love the looks on their faces, they are so embarassed and I couldn't give a rat's arse!

[Campion]

How can they tell from looking at the kids that they come from another country? Frankly, if you want to ditch your current response, I'd respond to: "Why did they go adopt children from another country? Why didn't they want to help out children here in the United States?" with: "I don't understand what you mean." Over and over again, until they get the point. But then, I've never been known for my tact or politeness.

[BobT]

It would be pretty easy to tell that the kids in question are not from the same country as the parents and the two other kids.

[Shirley Ujest]

"He's adopted children???!!!! I didn't know that!"

[Gary T]

"Why didn't they want to help out children here in the United States?"

Why do you think they didn't want to help out children here in the U.S.? Do you know something about their motives that I don't know?

[Anaamika]

Goddamn, I hope they never say these things where the kids might ever hear. I'm
adopted myself, and was rather sensitive about it once I found it.

I like the "They are Earthlings" comment, but honestly it's none of their business. How can people be so goddamn rude?

And from what I gather, isn't adoption within the States actually harder? Just what I've heard from couples trying.

[Otto]

Don't say anything, just stare at them in appalled silence.

[Gorgonzola]

Often people who ask these kinds of questions about a family where some children are adopted and some are not are really asking:

"Is the adopting couple infertile (thus limiting their in-country adoption choices)?"

"What motivated the couple to adopt children when they already had a family (wanting to help out, or wanting more children, or both)?"

I'd want to know what was really being asked before providing an answer, but no one should really ask these things without knowing you (and your sibs) quite well.

[Gary T]

Originally Posted by Gorgonzola

"Is the adopting couple infertile (thus limiting their in-country adoption choices)?"

How does being infertile limit in-country adopting choices, or any adopting choices? I've never heard of this before.

[Cartooniverse]

Originally Posted by BobT

I have shown friends and co-workers some photos from a recent family trip showing off my brother's family, which also contains two children of their own.

Before I say what I want to say in this post, I want to say to BobT that I'm glad he started this thread. Frequently folks do not know what to say, or how to say it. I find the comments to be revealing of how the person views my adoption. ( two kids, South Korean )

The responses are taking us down a very useful road of dissecting phrasing and language. To that end, the quote I have cited above leapt out at me and gave me pause- especially in the context of why you started this thread, and the positive loving things you have to say.

".... which also contains two children of his own." My children are my own. They're my kids. I would guess that if you asked him, he would say that all the kids in the photo are his kids. Adoptive parents have their hackles raise up when hearing a small handful of phrases and man, this is one of them. Perhaps you can describe the situation in the quote as, " which also contains two of his bio kids". Frequently, families with both biological and adopted children use this differentiation when describing to strangers the make-up of their family.

Again, I don't mean to go after you in a negative way- just a suggestion of something you might think of saying in the future. As for your O.P., the responses so far are excellent and some are ones I've used.

I don't get appalled any more. I did when the kids were babies. Now, nobody would ask me things with the kids in front of them, they only did that stuff when they assumed the kids were too young to realize they were being discussed like a cut of steak.

When pushed, I would give what was at the time an excellent and true stock answer. In the late 1980's, there were at least two very well-publicized stories of adopted children being forcible returned to a birth parent. One was a girl who was.... 4? Another was a child even older, IIRC.

Cite

Unfortunately, there have been a few well-publicized cases, such as baby Jessica in Michigan and baby Richard in Illinois, where adoptive parents were forced by the courts to return an adopted child to birth parents. Although rare, these cases have scared many couples away from pursuing a domestic adoption.

I would tell folks that my wife and I chose International Adoption because the odds were slim to none that a child placed with an overseas agency, then brought into the United States through a legal and government-sanctioned ( both governments ) adoption would be returned to their birth mothers. We did not want to risk that at all, and we didn't care what the ethnicity was of the baby. We chose Asian countries to look at because we had a Chinese sister-in-law at the time, and so there were mixed-race children in the family already. We dug the idea of there being more.

People can be so goddamned rude- it is in human nature sometimes to be blunt to the point of painfully rude. Sometimes I really let em have it, years ago. Usually I'd try to educate them a wee bit, and tell em the truth. If they don't like my kids, fuck em. They're my kids !!!!!

Cartooniverse

[Cartooniverse]

Originally Posted by Gary T

How does being infertile limit in-country adopting choices, or any adopting choices? I've never heard of this before.

Sorry I missed this on preview. I can only speak to my own experience with authority. At the time we adopted, South Korea demanded that we prove infertility. Furthermore, we had to prove that we were no longer pursuing any infertility treatments or options.

We were not elibigle for the adoption program if we were still attempting to conceive a biological child by whatever means were at our disposal at the time. Period. The logic being that there were so many infertile couples out there, that they did not want to place a baby with a couple that was likely to conceive at some point biologically.

We proved it with signed documents from both of our infertility doctors, her gynecologist and our regular MD's. Not a big deal- but from conversations with other adoptive parents, I have heard that various other overseas adoption programs have similar restrictions.

No clue about United States adoptions.

[Gary T]

Originally Posted by Cartooniverse

At the time we adopted, South Korea demanded that we prove infertility.

I can see the rationale in that. It doesn't surprise me that being fertile could limit one's options for adoptions. What I can't see is how being infertile would limit one's options.

[BobT]

I just tell people that my brother has four kids, two boys and two girls. People use figure something is up when I tell them that one boy and one girl are the same age and are rather dissimilar.

Also the last child they adopted was 6 when he arrived in the U.S. and went into the #2 slot in age.

[Gala Matrix Fire]

Originally Posted by BobT

It would be pretty easy to tell that the kids in question are not from the same country as the parents and the two other kids.

Huh? People of all color schemes are born in the United States. Do you mean it would be easy to tell if the kids were of a different race?

[GorillaMan]

Point at one of the white kids in the photo, and start explaining about the horrific Parisian orphanage he was rescued from....it'll probably just piss them off, but at least you get to make it clear their objection is basically a racist one.

[Omega Glory]

I wouldn't take any offense unless you knew that it was meant. It's natural to be curious about it when domestic adoptions are presented to the public as easy, and internation adoptions as hard and expensive. Add that to the kids that we see on the news begging for homes, and the articles about Canadians adoption American kids, and a lot of people are going to wonder what's going on. Just as another poster said, things like "of their own" and "real child" (I know you didn't say that one) can cause people to bristle too. So, I'm not sure what wording people used, but it's probably more likely that they were just wondering instead of complaining. It's not the best idea to question family members, but sometimes people don't know where else to ask.

[MizGrand]

I don't get the "complaining" part of the OP. Are they griping about WHY the adopted children aren't white and HOW could they dare choose children of another race?

My best friend from grade-school adopted a girl from China about a year and a half ago. It took them about two years to go through the process of getting Anna home. They chose China because dad is part Asian and felt they could provide the cultural stuff as well as the "good life" here in America. I guess I DID ask why they chose China over, say, Romania. I don't think she got offended. I also know a woman who adopted two from Russia. She can't stop talking about the great experience they had.

I also worked with a man who adopted two children from China. He already had a couple of his own, I guess he wanted to share/rescue children from a really bleak life in a Chinese orphanage. I've seen first-hand pictures and heard horror stories about these orphanages. Bad, bad, bad. No physical contact whatsoever with the babies and toddlers strapped into their cribs so they can't move. Anna was 18 mos when she arrived home here and she couldn't walk or speak at all.

I would be quite interested in hearing about people who've adopted US infants. It seems so near impossible unless you hook up with a teenaged girl and convince her to allow you to raise her child or pay for a surrogate. Admittedly, my knowledge is limited.

[Omega Glory]

Originally Posted by RSSchen

I would be quite interested in hearing about people who've adopted US infants. It seems so near impossible unless you hook up with a teenaged girl and convince her to allow you to raise her child or pay for a surrogate. Admittedly, my knowledge is limited.

I've been told that it's rare these days, but my parents adopted an infant from U.S. foster care in the early 90s. The baby was very healthy, developmentally on target, and it took about five years from home study to finalization of the process.

[xbuckeye]

If you wanted to mess with them...tell them that your sister in law had a fling with the chinese delivery guy (or whichever story matches the ethnic makeup of the kids) and blackmailed your brother into staying married and raising the kids as part of their family or she would expose his bribing of the local law enforcement to ignore the child p0rn collection on his computer.

Or if they are the conservative Christian type, try a virgin birth story comparing SIL to Mary and Bro. to Joseph...you are hoping for a Messiah niece or nephew.

[monstro]

Originally Posted by RSSchen

I don't get the "complaining" part of the OP. Are they griping about WHY the adopted children aren't white and HOW could they dare choose children of another race?

My best friend from grade-school adopted a girl from China about a year and a half ago. It took them about two years to go through the process of getting Anna home. They chose China because dad is part Asian and felt they could provide the cultural stuff as well as the "good life" here in America. I guess I DID ask why they chose China over, say, Romania. I don't think she got offended. I also know a woman who adopted two from Russia. She can't stop talking about the great experience they had.

I also worked with a man who adopted two children from China. He already had a couple of his own, I guess he wanted to share/rescue children from a really bleak life in a Chinese orphanage. I've seen first-hand pictures and heard horror stories about these orphanages. Bad, bad, bad. No physical contact whatsoever with the babies and toddlers strapped into their cribs so they can't move. Anna was 18 mos when she arrived home here and she couldn't walk or speak at all.

I would be quite interested in hearing about people who've adopted US infants. It seems so near impossible unless you hook up with a teenaged girl and convince her to allow you to raise her child or pay for a surrogate. Admittedly, my knowledge is limited.

There are more than a few black infants and toddlers looking for homes. My own brother was adopted by my parents as a baby. It wasn't a complicated process for them at all, and they were just working-class stiffs.

Confession time:

I had a friend tell me that she wants to adopt a Chinese baby because they are so cute. I know she wasn't being intentionally offensive, but the remark still stung. What? Black babies aren't cute? But I guess I returned the offensiveness by asking her why she would go to the other side of the world to adopt, when there are lots of babies here that are looking for homes. She said that Chinese babies have it harder than American babies (which is true...if she had given this reason instead of the silly "they are cu-ute!" stuff, then I wouldn't have been pissed off in the first place).

When I lived in South Orange, NJ, it was hard not to notice all the white parents toting around Asian babies at the grocery store. And then I'd go home and watch the "Wednesday's Child" segment on the news, and once again it would feature black children, all of them cute and lovable and just as desperate for a family. The rational part of my mind knows that the Asian baby adoption thing isn't a fashion trend, but in the back of my mind that's what I would be thinking when I'd see those kids being loaded into Volvos and SUVs. I also admit that it made me especially glad to see the gay Jewish couple down the street pushing their black, dred-locked son around in his stroller. When I first saw them, I thought to myself, "Oh, good! Not everyone's trying to get their own Model Minority." My friend's initial remark did not help cure me of my visceral response.

I'm not proud of feeling this way at all, and I hope I haven't offended anyone in this thread by exposing my own less-than-enlightened opinions.

[MizGrand]

Most black babies I've seen are absolutely adorable.

[Martin Hyde]

Originally Posted by RSSchen

Most black babies I've seen are absolutely adorable.

In my experience the vast majority of babies are all cute in their own way. It's the whole "miniature person" thing that makes most people go "aww."

Ugly Baby Syndrome of Seinfeld fame is rare, and just like in Seinfeld anyone who comes into contact with it is best to pretend it isn't there at all lest you stumble into serious faux pas territory.