Bullwhips as weapons?

[gytalf2000]

How effective are bullwhips as weapons? I'm thinking of the scenes from the "Indiana Jones" movies where Harrison Ford fights off multitudes of attackers using his whip. Is that feasible? What kind of wound would the lash of a bullwhip leave on unprotected skin? How long would a whip need to be -- is there an optimal length?

Any info would be appreciated.

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

Originally Posted by gytalf2000

Any info would be appreciated.

I know you can trade them for Idols...and other fun prizes!

[dolphinboy]

As a kid I was attacked by someone with a small bull whip and it stung like hell. It didn't break the skin, but it left a nice red mark that lasted a day or two. Of course as soon as the kid pulled back for another crack at me I beat the snot out of him with my fists.

Could somone with enough skill use a bull whip to grab and disarm you? I'll take any kind of gun over a whip any day. I don't think anyone believes in this day an age that it would be a very effective weapon.

[Omegaman]

Like defending against knife attack , once you get inside someones reach

it's over.

[UncleRojelio]

Originally Posted by dolphinboy

Of course as soon as the kid pulled back for another crack at me I beat the snot out of him with my fists.

Yeah, I was fixin' to say that attacking someone with a bullwhip is probably only going to piss them off.

[peri]

From Gary L. Deer's website:

They want to be able to use a whip in much the same way someone would use martial arts, a sword, or other weapons. But is this really practical as a defense weapon? The simple answer is no. The whip can generate considerable energy and damage a person’s body severely. Exceeding the speed of sound, the tip of the whip can cut and slice like a knife, and with surgical proficiency in the right hands. But it’s foolish to think it would have the upper hand in any real engagement.

It's the second article, Whips As Practical Weapons. This guy's whip handling is amazing, but in close quarters he'd probably just hit the attacker upside the head with the handle.

[ftg]

Get yourself a bunch of Lash La Rue videos from the 1950s and see what a genuine Hollywood cowboy could do with a whip. Loads of fun.

[astro]

.

The producers of the show would like to thank Todd Blanston for
stepping in to play "The Whipmaster" during contract negotiations with
our regular star. The producers would also like to point out that
proficiency with a whip is very difficult to achieve and takes many
years, and it is hoped that viewers will bear that in mind.

.

[Critical1]

if you replaced your whips tip with 5-6" of razersharp titainium (or whatever would work) you could kill with a whip easily. well if you had the training. I am pretty good with a whip and I can tell you from experience that with enough practice and skill you could pack a hell of alot of hurt into a shot or 2...but defensive? hell all they have to do is step up closer and you cant do jack.

[SentientMeat]

One can apprently slice into Coke cans with practise: somewhere near the end (the 'cracker', a thin string), the kink travels faster than 700 mph (ie. >Mach 1, causing a shock wave or "sonic boom" ) - the 'crack'. So, if you don't quite allow the 'crack' to dissipate that energy but instead only allow the strong leather 'fall' just before the cracker to travel near the speed of sound, it contains enough kinetic enery to slice through thin metal (and, obviously, skin to the bone).

However, one would need to be enormously skilled to be inch-perfect in three dimensions like this (you can't miss, and too long: the kink hasn't got to the fall yet, too short: the kink reaches the cracker and the energy is lost to a loud noise). And you've only got one shot before the attacker is upon you. Maybe you could make the handle out of a stun baton, or something?

[Daylon]

Originally Posted by gytalf2000

How effective are bullwhips as weapons? I'm thinking of the scenes from the "Indiana Jones" movies where Harrison Ford fights off multitudes of attackers using his whip. Is that feasible? What kind of wound would the lash of a bullwhip leave on unprotected skin? How long would a whip need to be -- is there an optimal length?

Any info would be appreciated.

Keeping in mind that the "crack" of the whip is the tip breaking the sound barrier, I imagine that a strip of leather going 700 mph across naked skid would probably slice through it like butter..

Agreed with above posts tho, you'd have to be really, REALLY good with a whip to defend / attack anyone I would think. The first time you threw your arm back, your opponent would probably tackle you.

Of course, a couple of scenes come to mind:

1) Underworld - the guy with the twin articulated steel whips
2) Whatever movie with The Rock where the evil henchman cuts the chair in half.

D.

[First Amongst Daves]

Originally Posted by Omegaman

Like defending against knife attack , once you get inside someones reach

it's over.

You can change grip with a knife, at least, from a fencer's thrust to a vertical downwards stab if your opponent gets in close.

I was so tempted once to go to a course held in the US on how to handle a khukuri, but it was just prohibitively expensive to get there. There is a Filipino martial art called kali which involves a lot of knife training, too.

Whips look like a lot of fun, preferably if the wielder is wearing little other than high heels and has a cat o nine tails.

Um. Did I write that?

[flodnak]

Just wanted to mention that Laura Ingalls Wilder's book Farmer Boy, based largely on her husband Almanzo's childhood memories, includes a story about a teacher defending himself against a gang of juvenile delinquents with a bullwhip. (Just in case you thought all 19th century kids respected authority or any such thing...) The description is graphic enough to make me believe that this would indeed be possible

[Mtgman]

The ox-whip used by the teacher(Mr. Corse) in Farmer Boy was not used as a slashing weapon, but as a tangling and grappling weapon. Here is an excerpt, transcribed by me from Amazon's "View inside this book" feature.

Mr. Corse held the short handle, loaded with iron, that could kill an ox. The thin, long lash coiled around Bill's legs, and Mr. Corse jerked. Bill lurched and almost fell. Quick as black lightning the lash circled and stuck and coiled again, and again Mr. Corse jerked.

"Come up here, Bill Ritchie." he said, jerking Bill toward him, and backing away.

Bill could not reach him. Faster and faster the lash was hissing and crackling, coiling and jerking, and more and more quickly Mr. Corse backed away, jerking Bill almost off his feet Up and down they went in the open space in front of the desk. The lash kept coiling and tripping Bill, Mr Corse kept running backward and striking.

Bill's trousers were cut through, his shirt was slashed, his arms bleeding from the bite of the lash. It came and went, hissing, too fast to be seen. Bill rushed, and the floor shook when the whiplash jerked him over backward. He got up swearing and tried to reach the teacher's chair, to throw it. The lash jerked him around. He began to bawl like a calf. He blubbered and begged.

The lash kept on hissing, circling, jerking. Bit by bit it jerked Bill to the door. Mr. Corse threw him headlong into the entry and slammed and locked the door. Turning quickly, he said: "Now, John, come on up."

John was in the aisle, staring. He whirled around and tried to get away, but Mr. Corse took a quick step, caught him with the whiplash and jerked him forward.

Oh, please, please, please Teacher!" John begged. Mr. Corse did not answer. He was panting and sweat trickled down his cheek. The whiplash was coiling and hissing, jerking John to the door. Mr. Corse threw him out and slammed the door, and turned.

The other big boys had got the window open. One, two, three, they jumped out into the deep snow and floundered away.

This seems to be a very different kind of bullwhip fight from what we see in Indiana Jones. A lot of movement and more yanking than striking. Still seems pretty improbable as written. Wrapping a whip around something is easy enough, getting it to uncoil back off a wriggling person would be very difficult. If he fell and trapped a coil under his body it would be extremely difficult to continue to use the weapon effectively. I'd say this was an exaggerated, if not outright fictitional, account of a bullwhip fight.

Enjoy,
Steven

[Testy]

Originally Posted by First Amongst Daves

You can change grip with a knife, at least, from a fencer's thrust to a vertical downwards stab if your opponent gets in close.

I was so tempted once to go to a course held in the US on how to handle a khukuri, but it was just prohibitively expensive to get there. There is a Filipino martial art called kali which involves a lot of knife training, too.
<SNIP>

Um. Did I write that?

Kali is very good for learning knife-play. It almost always uses either an ice-pick grip or a reverse grip. It tends to be very close range.

Regards

Testy

[Sleel]

Originally Posted by peri

This guy's whip handling is amazing, but in close quarters he'd probably just hit the attacker upside the head with the handle.

I've had some training with flexible weapons in martial arts. I've played around with whips in that context too. I pretty much agree with what he said on his site, with a few things to add.

It has a high intimidation factor. If your attackers aren't too determined, they'd probably think twice about trying anything. That's the main factor in the Laura Ingalls Wilder scene. They don't attack all at once because they've probably seen what it can do to someone who gets hit with it. Bill was taken by surprise and had his will to fight broken pretty quickly. By the time he tries fighting back, he's already mentally lost the fight.

The handle is a pretty decent blunt-trauma weapon. It's usually weighted with lead or steel and can be used as a sap or can be swung from the reversed lash -- like a weighted rope or chain -- for extra force. There are some interesting things you can do with a rope or chain to tangle, grapple, or choke an attacker that would be possible with a whip also. Focusing only on lashing would be a mistake if you had to use a whip as a weapon.

On the whole, though, it's not a weapon I would choose if I had any alternatives. Rope against knife is not hopeless, but it's not an ideal either, and that's what you're basically dealing with if you have a whip. The only advantage over a rope that you'd have is that a crack at his eyes would probably stop and discourage him for a second or so. Maybe that would be enough time to escape or close with him, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Guns would be hopeless. Ironically, you'd probably be better off trying to rush him barehanded than use a whip. He'd have less time to react and he might hesitate out of surprise at how crazily stupid you're being in charging a guy with a gun. Try cracking a whip at him and he's going to shoot you out of spite, probably before you can even get the tip up to speed.