OK, someone tell me why I should stop panicking. (NSA call database.)

Now, I’m not a frequent denzien of the pit. I think I’ve made maybe two OP’s here, and none of them political. I’m not a fan of the current administration, but I’m not about to blame Bush for tooth decay, either.

But this has me freaking out just a little bit.

IANAL, but I’m having trouble seeing how this could be vaguely legal, if true. Yet many of these things end up being so under some tortuous legal reasoning not fully understood by laypeople. Can someone help me figure out why we shouldn’t be freaking out here?

(Put in the Pit to avoid closure should it get parisan and ugly, as I fear. I will not add swears to make it “pitworthy”, however.)

Haven’t they been doing that for years already?
I have heard about this years ago.
Your internet-use is also monitored and archived, I think.
There was a name for this, I think Echelon.
It is used to monitor European email and telephone traffic too.

By the way : there have been reports about the Echelon spy-network as far back as 1998, so I don’t think it has much to do with the current US administration.
I think it is time to invest in some tinfoil hats.

There’s no reason to panic. The Justice department is looking into the matter, making sure everything OK, and your rights are being protected.
See: NSA Stymies Justice Dept. Spying Probe

Do not attempt to contact love ones, insurance agent or attorney.
Shut up.
Be Happy!

Wasn’t there a time when it was considered significant if the President told the citizenry a blatant lie about something important? Nowadays, the President gets caught in lies over and over, pretty much on a weekly basis, and it doesn’t seem to matter. Certainly I never see the word “lying” in news articles like this.

From the link, “it means that the government has detailed records of calls they made.” This is what bothers me, legalities aside for a moment. I wouldn’t personally be too upset about the NSA extracting and compiling aggregate data (e.g., count of calls per time period, count of calls to country X per date from city Y, etc.), but “detailed records” sound vaguely like good old fashioned indiscrimiate wire tapping to me.

It looks like I’d have to do a bit of research before I can figure out if I should be outraged or not.

What we need is for a few million of us to call Pakistan tomorrow. Any Pakistani number will do. Doesn’t matter if they speak English on the other end or not. Just say “Bush,” “bomb,” and “Al Qaeda” then hang up. We can overload the Echelon system with false positives and send the whole system crashing into rubble. We can do it! Now, who’s with me?

<crickets>

So you’re telling us we should have been panicking for 8 years now?

Oh, great!

:slight_smile:

(I’d vaguely heard of Echelon before, but thought it was all tinfoil hat nonsense conspiracy theory stuff. Are you saying it wasn’t, and this NSA thing is Echelon, or that there’s two mass information gathering efforts going on?)

Echelon

More Echelon

Even more Echelon

Panic now and avoid the rush!

I don’t think “wiretapping” is the correct term here since we’re talking about phone records, not actual conversations. Still, I do believe even that would require a warrant. I wonder why all the phone companies (except Qwest) agreed to cooperate. Let’s see how this story plays out over the next few days.

Shut up.

Or grow a brain.

Please. Bush was talking about calls in which the conversations were monitored. This thread is asking about data ABOUT calls being collected.

There’s some concern about that data collection – so far as I can tell, it’s not legal – but Bush’s above comment has nothing to do with this. Please try to follow along with the adults, or go sit at the kid’s table, ok?

I want to get worked up, I really do…but this is just another example, in a long line, of the current admins clear disdain for the nations laws. makes you sick.

Why are you being such a prick about it? These programs are linked in the article referenced by the OP. Or do you remain such an administration cocksucker that you’re going to assert that “Bush would never do anything like lie about what his administration is up to”?

Forgot to add that it was already indicated that the wiretap surveillance program was capturing domestic calls.

This recent revelation is just further evidence that Bush cannot be trusted to be honest about the scope of the “Terrorist Surveillance Program.”

Well, the various security & intelligence agencies have time & again proven themselves to be completely ineffective. For instance:

  1. Where is Osama?
  2. Who mailed all that anthrax around?
  3. A coordinated & well communicated plan to hijack airplanes & crash them into the WTC went completely undetected & succeeded.
  4. The bombing of that OK federal building was successful, even after
  5. A similar bombing was made at the previously-mentioned WTC
  6. A lunatic actually managed to shoot then-president Ronald Reagan

So, it seems you’d have to mail them your driver license and possibly a self-addressed stamped envelope before they’d take notice of you.

You don’t need to worry, because the man who implemented this program at the NSA has just been nominated to direct the CIA.

Enjoy!

I like this idea. I like it a lot more than the gubmit harvesting phone data.

I’m shocked to learn that Qwest doesn’t completely suck. They only mostly suck.

I have it from sources pretty high up that as long as you’re not a terrorist you’re perfectly safe.

Now tell me, do you have anything to be worried about?

-Joe

The USA Today article is silent on the subject of emails, but given that the earlier revelations about NSA wiretapping included email along with voice, it would surprise me if they weren’t collecting email info too.

The additional work involved in making the jump from gathering an email header to collecting the contents of the email is obviously much smaller than that from gathering phone numbers dialed to picking up the contents of the conversation. And while IANAL, my somewhat shaky understanding (based on a lot of stuff I only semi-understand about pen registers and trap and trace devices) is that the legal barriers are less daunting as well with respect to email.

Here’s one possible reason: