Big Love 5/21 (spoilers)

[alphaboi867]

Only two more episodes left. Why is Rhonda staying with them.

[alphaboi867]

If any of the wives die and Bill survives wouldn't the children automatically go to him?

[Lakai]

Originally Posted by alphaboi867

If any of the wives die and Bill survives wouldn't the children automatically go to him?

Yes, and they all agree to that. The problem is what happens when one of the wives dies and Bill dies.

[AuntiePam]

Originally Posted by alphaboi867

Only two more episodes left. Why is Rhonda staying with them.

I think it's just while the drama competition is going on. Maybe it's a long commute?

What a little bitch. I get the feeling she'd be a bitch even if she wasn't living in the compound and betrothed to Roman.

Hard to believe Barb's going through with the Mother of the Year, especially after being told that it was because of her cancer, after she learned that Margene was pregnant, and after she knew it'd involve more time away from the family. Nice setup for next episode though.

[alphaboi867]

Does Rhonda want to runaway from Juniper Creek? She has delusions of being an actress, yet seems devout and excited about marrying Roman. Barb is such a hypocrite; she gave Bill a lecture on how they can't have a public night and yet she's in the running to for Utah mother of the year. And it likes look Roman is going to kidnap Ben. can we say season-ending cliffhanger

[flickster]

IMHO

Bill is in debt up to his eyeballs (just dived in deeper to buy the shares) and thanks to his snooping employee their lifestyle is going to be exposed which will have a devistating effect on the stores. I think they will be driven to flee back to the compound.

In other news, Rhonda is spooky...

[flickster]

IMHO

Bill is in debt up to his eyeballs (just dived in deeper to buy the shares) and thanks to his snooping employee their lifestyle is going to be exposed which will have a devastating effect on the stores. I think they will be driven to flee back to the compound.

In other news, Rhonda is spooky...

[tarragon918]

It's hard for me to watch this show without gritting my teeth because of the way women are treated. Yes, I realize it's just a tv show, but think the portrayals are fairly true-to-life.

That being said, this is excellent drama! A bit kinky, but excellent. LOL Do all women wear their bras to bed, have sex with their bras on?! Is Ben's gf Brynn LDS even? It's definitely a world that I know nothing about; I'm trusting that they are giving a fairly accurate portrayal.
Seems to me that the secretary is the one who is going to expose Bill's polygamy. We'll see in two weeks in the season finale.

Again, great show, but just hard to watch without wanting to really smack someone...(like any of the MEN! sorry guys!).

[MaxTheVool]

Nickie cracks me up. The greatest response ever to someone saying they love you: "You're overheated".

[yellowval]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

Hard to believe Barb's going through with the Mother of the Year, especially after being told that it was because of her cancer ...

"Lucky for you, yours metastasized!"

Definitely hypocritical of Barb to pressure Bill not to form the league, yet agreeing to do all of those appearances if she wins the mother of the year contest. What are you thinking, Barb? Nicki is jealous, obviously. I couldn't believe she just walked in like that during the photo shoot. And little Wayne asking if they were going to be in the picture too and the photographer's answer that it was only for family was priceless. That should have sent Barb a message right there. With a polygamist family, you don't exclude two-thirds of it to become mother of the year.

I wonder if Nicki will start trying to get pregnant for real now that Margene is pregnant.

Ben and Margene's conversation while they were working on the yard was interesting. Ben is obviously feeling conflicted in so many ways. He has to avoid Brynn because he knows he can't resist otherwise. His glance from Brynn's short skirt to Margene's is more proof that he's conflicted about Margene as well.

I love how behind everything Nicki does, there's an ulterior motive. For instance, the only reason she changed her mind about the will was because her mom said no. But of course she doesn't tell Barb and Margie that, so they think she has a change of heart. I also loved the exchanges between Barb and Nicki and Margie and Nicki: "Am I warm?" "No."

I'm excited to see how this season ends. I only wish we didn't have to wait two weeks!

[Dewey Finn]

Originally Posted by yellowval

"Lucky for you, yours metastasized!"

That was funny, as was the old guy's complaint that Roman was going to "reassign" his wives.

[yellowval]

Yeah, I loved that too. Can't remember the wife's name, but the comment that a bunch of men had their eye on her, and her reaction, was hilarious.

[Push You Down]

I think Rhonda is a mixed up teenage girl. She has these fantasies about being an actress and running away to New York but also holds tear to her status of being a future wife of the Prophet.

I liked the good bits of continuity between last week and this week. MArgie was really gung ho and excited and "so totally" into their lives.
Its strange that we haven't heard much mention of Nickie's ept in the last two episodes.


Bill's incredibly shortsighted. The thing that will hurt him the most when the outing comes will be his stock in the UAB.


Okay call me crazy but here's my prediction for the finale-

Roman dies (or ends up in coma). Bill and the family are outed. Bill has some sort of heart attack, car accident, etc... something that leads him to have a 'vision'.

Next season plays out the power struggle for control of Juniper Creek. Bill vs Albie and other hardliners. Barb and her kids stay in town and try to lead normal lives while being harassed and suffer persecution. Nikie is overjoyed to be back at the compound and Margie is torn between the two.

[FriarTed]

Question about the opening credits scene- where they are gathered around the table saying grace...

the camera pans back to show them on a planet of their own, surrounded by other planets- is that a deliberate reference to the doctrine of deification?

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by tarragon918

It's definitely a world that I know nothing about; I'm trusting that they are giving a fairly accurate portrayal.

Well, it's apparently based on the Fundamentalist Church of Latter-Day Saints, a polygamist sect that schismed off from the main LDS Church in 1935. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLDS Which, from all I've read about it, is every bit as scary as "The Compound."

My Dad tells me that when he was in the Air Force in the '60s and '70s, Mormons in the ranks were too body-shy to let anybody see them naked, even while showering, and they always wore "Mormon underwear," a kind of all-concealing longjohns. So maybe Mormon women do keep their bras on during sex. And maybe your Mom did, too. Almost certainly your grandmother. We don't appreciate nowadays how all-pervasive body shame used to be in American culture.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by Dewey Finn

That was funny, as was the old guy's complaint that Roman was going to "reassign" his wives.

Now that part I find hard to believe. Mormons, including almost certainly schismatic/heretic Mormons like these, believe marriage is forever. As in, for Eternity. Death does not you part -- you will remain married in Heaven. See this GD thread: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=365881 I can't imagine there's a Mormon sect where the leader could get away with "reassigning" wives.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by FriarTed

. . . is that a deliberate reference to the doctrine of deification?

The what?!

[Syntropy]

Originally Posted by Push You Down

I think Rhonda is a mixed up teenage girl. She has these fantasies about being an actress and running away to New York but also holds tear to her status of being a future wife of the Prophet.

I laughed like a loon at the look on her face when she didn't make the cut. Absolutely priceless. She obviously thought that she was a shoe in, and that being the prophet's wife means she automatically gets what she wants when she wants it. Any idea where she went? I mean, Sarah went to get her after rehearsals, found out she got cut, and then that was it.

From the looks of the previews of next week's show, Roman is going to flip his lid when he finds out Bill has that seat on the council. Albie remains creepy as all hell.

[Syntropy]

Originally Posted by BrainGlutton

The what?!

Some Mormons believe that people who are especially holy become deified in the afterlife.

Here's the Wiki article (sorry, can't get a better link, blasted flitering system blocks out religious websites)

Regarding the afterlife, many denominations of Mormonism teach of a deification or exaltation of humanity. In particular, Latter-day Saints consider this tenet to correspond with Biblical teachings, including Jesus Christ's citation in John of Psalms 82:6, "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" and Paul's promise in Romans 8:17 that believers would be "joint-heirs with Christ," and thus receive the fullness of the Father. The oft-quoted saying (by Lorenzo Snow, then a Latter-day Saint Apostle) that captures this idea is, "As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be." Traditional Christianity consider this form of deification to be heretical and believe that man would be in the presence of God, but would not become a God.

[Greywolf73]

Originally Posted by Push You Down

Okay call me crazy but here's my prediction for the finale-

Roman dies (or ends up in coma). Bill and the family are outed. Bill has some sort of heart attack, car accident, etc... something that leads him to have a 'vision'.

Next season plays out the power struggle for control of Juniper Creek. Bill vs Albie and other hardliners. Barb and her kids stay in town and try to lead normal lives while being harassed and suffer persecution. Nikie is overjoyed to be back at the compound and Margie is torn between the two.

Good call on them being forced to go back to Juniper Creek. Nicki will certainly be in her element. Maybe that will tempt her to make a move towards going above and beyond her rights as second wife, which I've suspected she'd try since the beginning. I could see her trying to oust Barb, although she'd obviously fail. Even her own mother shot down her decision not to leave her kids to Barb, which was pretty funny. Even funnier was how she told Margene she'd just "changed her mind".

I called Rhonda running away a few weeks ago. I bet she will and end up in some sort of trouble which Sara will have to bail her out of.

Did I hear Bill wrong? Did he ask Don to take his kids if he, Barb and Nicki died? What about Margene? Talk about a slap in the face if I did hear correctly.

[Push You Down]

Yeah Bill asked Don to take in the kids if he, Barb and Nickie died. I think that actually the best choice since, holy shit.. Margene responisble for, what, 7 kids? Ben and Sarah are fine for the most part, however, Teeny, the twins, the newborn and the bun in her over all under Magie's care? Whoa.

[AuntiePam]

Speaking of the lead-in, which I love, I don't get the theme song, in the context of polygamy and families being together forever.

I may not always love you
But long as there are stars above you
You never need to doubt it
I'll make you so sure about it

Does that even make sense?

[alphaboi867]

I'm leaning more toward Ben being attracted to Margie then him being gay, though he isn't written very well. Roman will get massively pissed that Rhonda ran away while under Bill's care. She doesn't have a clue how the real world works. I found it really creepy/funny when she refered to Sarah as grandaughter.

[Push You Down]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

Speaking of the lead-in, which I love, I don't get the theme song, in the context of polygamy and families being together forever.

I may not always love you
But long as there are stars above you
You never need to doubt it
I'll make you so sure about it

Does that even make sense?

Well yes THAT doesn't make sense... but the idea isn't finished with that verse. And in this context I think the I may not always love you means I may not like you, get along with you, or I may actually hate you at different points BUT... I still need you.

They all need eachother but that doesn't mean they always get a long and love each other.

[Ellis Dee]

Originally Posted by yellowval

Yeah, I loved that too. Can't remember the wife's name, but the comment that a bunch of men had their eye on her, and her reaction, was hilarious.

Even better was the look on her face when Bill asked her in disgust: "If Roman told you to jump off a bridge, would you do it?"

She got a look of horror as if to say "Oh dear, I hope he doesn't tell me to jump off a bridge!"

hehheh.

[Twinkie]

I thought the lyrics to the title song meant, "I'll love you as long as there are stars..." Kind of like the song from Camelot "If I ever leave you, it wouldn't be in Springtime..." I also thought it was a reference to the deification / marriage in the afterlife.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by Greywolf73

I called Rhonda running away a few weeks ago. I bet she will and end up in some sort of trouble which Sara will have to bail her out of.

Heather was telling Sarah about some agencies or support groups that exist specifically for helping girls in Rhonda's situation -- do those actually exist in Utah?

[Push You Down]

I'm sure they do.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by Push You Down

I'm sure they do.

Found a couple!

http://helpthechildbrides.com/

http://www.childbrides.org/

It will necessarily complicate the plot(s) that Sarah's friend Heather is (1) a mainstream LDS Mormon and (2) daughter of a state trooper.

[MaxTheVool]

An interesting question just occurred tome... I've read Under the Banner of Heaven, and don't remember it addressing this, but... ARE there any people who basically live like the Henricksons? A non-cultish non-compound-dwelling suburban middle class polygamist family?

What from the show seems particularly plausible or implausible?

For instance, the way they have alternating nights... I can see that being the only way to work it without everyone getting jealous. I can also see it not working at all. Hmmm. Are there any polygamist message boards where actual polygamists are discussing Big Love?


(Although I suppose discussing how to actually make polygamy work in real life might qualify under some of the SDMB rules against discussing illegal activities )

[flickster]

Originally Posted by tarragon918

That being said, this is excellent drama! A bit kinky, but excellent. LOL Do all women wear their bras to bed, have sex with their bras on?!

This might be an HBO contract clause issue. Six Feet Under was much the same as have been some of the main Sopranos cast. I would shudder to think that all of these scenes were just written this way (if true - get new writers, quick)

[AuntiePam]

When Barb and Bill were having their hotel room dates, she wasn't wearing a bra. We've seen Nickie bra-less too. Not full boobage, but no bra straps showing.

[Accidental Yuppie]

[quote=MaxTheVool]An interesting question just occurred tome... I've read Under the Banner of Heaven, and don't remember it addressing this, but... ARE there any people who basically live like the Henricksons? A non-cultish non-compound-dwelling suburban middle class polygamist family? [quote]

SOme of the stuff I've read indicates that polygamist frequently occupy all the units in a two or three family apartment buildings or townhouse. One of the things I find implausible is that the suburban compund hasn't raised more eyebrows given the local awareness of polygamy.

The show is very much in line with most of what I've heard and read about polygamy. There are lots of sizable polygamist groups out there, many of them set up like the UEB ( I think there is an AUP and maybe a EAB). Some are fundamentalist like the UEB and and others are more "liberal"...their members wear modern clothes and don't live together on compounds, and they don't arrange marriages for women under 20. Members of these groups may comprise some suburban polygamists.

[quote]What from the show seems particularly plausible or implausible?[quote]

I think it's implausible that they haven't been outed yet, mostly... and that none of their "straight" associates and neighbors question why they don't go to church and why they lost their temple recommends.

I'm still having a little trouble with Margene in general, I really don't see her "backstory" working......I can't picture Nicki and Barb meeting her and having her take care of their kids and still letting her in the family, I can't believe Nicki and Bill would let her join them in marriage without any religious education or awareness.........and face it, without the religious "principle" mumbo-jumbo to guide her she's just an unwed mom screwing her next door neighbor, and that's the kind of moral looseness Nicki and Barb (sorta) hate.

[quote]For instance, the way they have alternating nights... I can see that being the only way to work it without everyone getting jealous. I can also see it not working at all. Hmmm. Are there any polygamist message boards where actual polygamists are discussing Big Love?[quote]

They still follow most of the other Mormon rules so they are forbidden from watching it, I think.


(QUOTE]

[JimOfAllTrades]

Originally Posted by MaxTheVool

An interesting question just occurred tome... I've read Under the Banner of Heaven, and don't remember it addressing this, but... ARE there any people who basically live like the Henricksons? A non-cultish non-compound-dwelling suburban middle class polygamist family?

Well, the cultish thing is open to some interpretation, but there used to be families like that, at least sort of. I went to school with a group of them back in the 60s and 70s.

At that time, there were definitely polygamists living fairly openly in the community. I knew personally a brother and sister in elementary school that lived just a few blocks down the street from us who were from a polygamist family.

And not in some out of the way, remote school and neighborhood, this was right in the heart of Salt Lake City. We all grew up and went to East High, which was where a lot of the “old money” in Salt Lake went, including the kids of former governors and senators. It was an open “secret” that they were part of a polygamist family. No one thought too much about it.

When I first met the kids that I knew best, they lived in a corner house, and the house right next door was painted and landscaped in exactly the same way. I didn’t understand why that was as a nine-year-old, but I did notice it. By the time I was twelve or so, I had heard about the polygamy part of it, and realized that each house was for a different section of the family. Over the years, that expanded to about four (maybe five) houses running down the street, one after the other.

And by the way, those folks must have been near perfect neighbors. Their houses were immaculately kept, the kids were all quiet and very well behaved, all good students, and friendly, if a little more private than most.

In junior high, I got know one of the kids from one of the other sections of the family as well. And in high school, a couple of more.

About the cultish thing, they did dress very conservatively, with the boys wearing dark pants and ties to school, the girls long dresses. And this was at the height of the hippie movement. They took some teasing from other kids about it. I honestly don’t know what their private home life was like, but they seemed happy. They were definitely very religious. Could easily been seen as a cult, I guess, and definitely not my thing (no religion is), but the few I knew seemed like pretty ordinary kids when you got down to it.

I think that it is much more underground now, as the polygamists have nearly universally bad press in the last 20 years, and I think the community is much less tolerant than it was. But I’d be surprised if there weren’t at least a few here and there pretty much just as it is depicted o the show.

[friedo]

Very interesting anecdotes, RJKUgly. Thanks for sharing them.

[Trunk]

Originally Posted by Push You Down

Okay call me crazy but here's my prediction for the finale-

Roman dies (or ends up in coma). Bill and the family are outed. Bill has some sort of heart attack, car accident, etc... something that leads him to have a 'vision'.

Next season plays out the power struggle for control of Juniper Creek. Bill vs Albie and other hardliners. Barb and her kids stay in town and try to lead normal lives while being harassed and suffer persecution. Nikie is overjoyed to be back at the compound and Margie is torn between the two.

I think you've been watching too much Sopranos.

Roman's the most interesting character on the show, and the tension between him and Bill is driving half the storylines.

No way on earth they move back to the compound. A major part of the show is the interplay between the polygamous family and the suburban lifestyle. And, they're finally putting the house in order, or at least planting grass. Not to mention that there's no way that Bill could maintain his public facade if he moved back to the compound -- he'd have to give up the home stores.

However, they've now hinted at the fact that his grandfather was the true prophet and that Bill might have some of that in him. So, if he gets the seat on the council, it's possible that some people from the brotherhood start migrating towards his way of thinking. That could set up a big power struggle and really force him to make a choice.

[RogueRacer]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

We've seen Nickie bra-less too. Not full boobage, but no bra straps showing.

About two episodes ago, they had a full boobage shot of Nicki. Boobage is such a fun word!

[Push You Down]

I like how you disregard what I said and then in your final paragraph support what I said
That's weird dude.

They've set up that the family will be outed. They've set up that Bill really is the rightful heir to the church leadership. If Bill decides to push that the only way he can is to move to the compound. Barb WON'T. She'll try to keep her wing of the family in town where they will face persecution. Barb won't be able to work because no school will hire the wife of a polygamist cult figure. Nickie will LOVE moving back to the compound and without the first wife present Nickie will assert power and privliege. Margie will move back and forth because she needs to be close to Bill but wants to live secularly. Ben will be further torn when Bill wants to groom him to be a leader as well. Sarah will probably distance herself from everyone more.

I think the business would be hurt when Bills outed but I don't think it would destroy it. And Bill is so shortsighted at times he may think he can run the company AND try to lead a breakaway religious sect at the same time.

The core of the show would still be present- The whole interplay between suburban and polygamist life, but it's going to, based on what they have set up this season, go beyond it. The whole show can't be a suspension of "When will people find out? Oh that was a close one." Its not a fucking sitcom that resets each week.