Your opinions on "swamp coolers"

[gigi]

We are headed into a hot weekend here in the great north country and thoughts are turning to the horror that will be an un-air-conditioned summer at work. We are in an old building without central air and our facilities folks don't want us to install window units.

Does anyone have experience cooling small sunny spaces with swamp coolers, aka portable air coolers, aka evaporative air coolers? I think it would be a good compromise between fans that blow hot air around and the prohibited window units. They say they cool 12 degrees cooler than a fan but that may not matter when the fan would be moving 90 degree air around. But the dehumidifying feature would be nice. Are we fooling ourselves that these would make a difference?

The other thing we thought of was portable air conditioners (on wheels, but like window units in that you exhaust them through a tube out the window). They wouldn't be as obvious as a window unit but I am concerned about the draw on power. Plus they are $300 versus a $80 swamp cooler.

[Necros]

I don't know where you are, but swamp coolers do not dehumidify (like an air conditioner does), they "humidify" the air. They work best in locations with dry air. If you have a lot of humidity, your best bet is probably one of the portable AC units you mentioned.

[KlondikeGeoff]

Originally Posted by Necros

I don't know where you are, but swamp coolers do not dehumidify (like an air conditioner does), they "humidify" the air. They work best in locations with dry air. If you have a lot of humidity, your best bet is probably one of the portable AC units you mentioned.

That's right. Even in the southwest, when the dewpoint gets over around 50%, I think, they don't work. It has to be very dry outside for them to work well.

[gigi]

Gotcha! No wonder it mentions using them in areas with high sun load.

[Rick]

If you are in a dry climate, and set the unit up correctly they work between OK and great.
If you are in a humid climate or set it up wrong, they don't work. If you are in a humid climate and set it up wrong they suck.
Climate Dry baby dry. Lower the humidity the better.

Setup The unit must be sized large enough to constantly have fresh cool air circulating. You also have to have an exhaust for the air that has been blown into the building. A cracked poen window, or a door left ajar. For best results the unit must have access to outside (Non-humid) air.

Swamp cooler horror stories.
I was 20 and working as a mechanic in the central valley of California. Temp in the shop during the day ran between 102-110F. Boss gets us a swamp cooler. A very large swamp cooler. He does not install it outside with the vent sticking through the wall. No that might make it work better. He stands it on a couple of saw horses in the corner. Plumbs it in, and turns it on. Temp in the shop? 100-105 but with 97% humidity. The only good part was heat doesn't bother me much after that summer.
Second horror story. Went to Aruba in 1998. The hotel had a central swamp cooler system for the guest rooms. It held the room to about 75F. The problem was when I cracked the sliding glass door so I could get an air exchange so the system would work better, it shut down. Seems there was a little microswitch on the sliding glass door that shut it off if the door was opened.
It was so humid in that room, towels would not dry if left hanging in the bathroom. (or swim suits, or sweaty clothes)

[Cowgirl Jules]

I have one, and there are days that it works and days that it doesn't. Humidity varies here, and I have to turn it on early if I want it to work at all. It won't really cool the house down once it gets hot, but it will keep it relatively cool if it's a dry day and I start it in the morning.

Of course, it might work better if it weren't mounted on the freakin' roof, but it's a rental and swapping ducts around is not my idea of possible.

[gigi]

Originally Posted by Rick

The unit must be sized large enough to constantly have fresh cool air circulating. You also have to have an exhaust for the air that has been blown into the building. A cracked poen window, or a door left ajar. For best results the unit must have access to outside (Non-humid) air.

Don't laugh, but we were thinking something like this. My office is maybe 10 x 12 with a window and a door onto an internal hallway. It doesn't look like these come with exhaust conduits at all. From what you guys have said, I'm thinking dumb idea since it does get humid here??

Portable air conditioners with hoses to exhaust out the window may be an option if our head honcho approves it. We probably each have to buy our own though.

Originally Posted by Rick

Swamp cooler horror stories.

Because I will forever have Swamp Thing in my mental image bank, I'm picturing a comic book series. Our intrepid hero vs. various HVAC snafus.

[Kizarvexius]

Swamp coolers are great if you live in the desert. Otherwise they're worthless.

Mind you, should your local desert have a rainy season that coincides with high temperatures, you're better off killing the cooler and opening all the windows.

[Necros]

Originally Posted by gigi

Don't laugh, but we were thinking something like this. My office is maybe 10 x 12 with a window and a door onto an internal hallway. It doesn't look like these come with exhaust conduits at all. From what you guys have said, I'm thinking dumb idea since it does get humid here??

It's not like an evaporative cooler needs to exhaust anywhere (it only contains an electric motor), it's just that it needs a place to access dry air, like outside, and must have the capacity to provide enough cool air to circulate throughout the area. This is another reason why you use AC with the windows closed (keeps the cold in) and evap coolers with the windows open (increases air flow, and thus cooling).

I'm not quite sure what the thing you linked to is. It uses ice? WTF? Seems weird to me. But, yes, if you live in a humid area, a swamp cooler is not going to help you. Unless you are into the whole "jungle atmosphere" thing.

[Gail]

When I lived with my husband, we had a swamp cooler. (We live in northern Nevada and the summers here are brutally hot.) It was heavenly. At night we actually turned it off because we'd get too cold.

Now I live in a rental house that has no cooling system of any kind. I long for a swamp cooler. The advantage is that it doesn't raise your power bill any more than a fan would.

[ambushed]

Originally Posted by KlondikeGeoff

That's right. Even in the southwest, when the dewpoint gets over around 50%, I think, they don't work. It has to be very dry outside for them to work well.

I must disagree. It can get very humid here in Michigan, but my swamp cooler always works reasonably well, even in high humidity. I'm extremely pleased with my Fujitronic unit.

Just note that you have to be directly in the cooler's air outlet to feel cooler.

[ambushed]

Originally Posted by Kizarvexius

Swamp coolers are great if you live in the desert. Otherwise they're worthless.

Mind you, should your local desert have a rainy season that coincides with high temperatures, you're better off killing the cooler and opening all the windows.

This reply isn't just to you, it's to all those who have made this observation. It boggles my mind. I've used mine in 90% humidity and with zero outside air and it reduces the temperature (within the breeze cone) by something like 8 or more degrees F. I think these things are undeniably effective even in high humidity.

[Alice The Goon]

Originally Posted by ambushed

This reply isn't just to you, it's to all those who have made this observation. It boggles my mind. I've used mine in 90% humidity and with zero outside air and it reduces the temperature (within the breeze cone) by something like 8 or more degrees F. I think these things are undeniably effective even in high humidity.

This boggles my mind. I've lived here 10 years, and IME, swamp coolers can work excellently when it's dry out, but once the monsoon comes and the humidity rises, they are worthless. Effective in high humidity? I've never come across that, nope, not once. And with no outside air? Do you mean without a window cracked? If you don't crack a window or sliding glass door, the pressure builds up greatly in the house and a very spooky whistling noise ensues. And 8 degrees cooler is nothing when it's 110 outside, so yes, worthless.

[ambushed]

Originally Posted by trublmakr

This boggles my mind. I've lived here 10 years, and IME, swamp coolers can work excellently when it's dry out, but once the monsoon comes and the humidity rises, they are worthless. Effective in high humidity? I've never come across that, nope, not once. And with no outside air? Do you mean without a window cracked? If you don't crack a window or sliding glass door, the pressure builds up greatly in the house and a very spooky whistling noise ensues. And 8 degrees cooler is nothing when it's 110 outside, so yes, worthless.

You live in Tuscon and you don't have air conditioning?? WTF? Hell, when I was preparing to move from Denver to work for NASA at Edwards AFB in the California high Mojave desert, I called a real estate broker to find a house or apartment for me to rent and I told her I insisted that it have good air conditioning. She replied, laughing: "Honey, even the street people who live in cardboard boxes have air conditioning here!"

I again tell you that my swamper has worked quite well for me for many years even in high humidity. But to expect it to reduce ones sensation of heat by more than about 8-12 degrees F is just not reasonable; they just aren't designed to do that. Thinking that a swamp cooler will make a big difference in 110 degree heat is very much a flawed assumption. OTOH, dismissing an 8-12 degree reduction as "worthless", high humidity or low, seems -- well, it seems a bit silly. Why turn your back on whatever help you can get?

As for having no open (or even open-able) windows or doors, that's the main reason I went with a swamp cooler in the first place. I've never experienced the slightest problem or lack of efficiency from this, certainly no pressure buildup (which I think is probably impossible).

[Alice The Goon]

Where did I say I didn't have air conditioning? I do, personally, have AC. Here, every abode (at least rentals) must, by law, have AC or swamp cooling. I have lived in many places with swamp coolers, and from July to September, the monsoon, they do not work worth a crap, and people without AC are miserable. Because they have swamp coolers. AFAIK, swamp coolers must, by their very definition, be used in low humidity in order to be effective.

I don't know about smaller units, but for whole-house coolers, running it without a window cracked absolutely does cause pressure buildup in the house. I've experienced that many times, so, no, not impossible.

Maybe things are much different where you live, or with the units you've been using.

[Rick]

No cracked window doesnot mean a pressure build up, it means a build up of warm humid air. You nneed to exhaust the warm moist air, to keep the cool moist air flowing in.

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

Every year, there is an outdoor music festival here in "Dogpatch", Tennessee.
And the put huge, hose-fed swamp coolers out.
Always cooling & refreshing.
Humidity doesn't seem to harm, if the place is very sunny.

[Green_Means_Go]

I lived in a 600 sq ft apartment here in Colorado for about 6 years with a swamp cooler and I have found it to be very affective assuming:

A) You open the door on the other side of the apartment a crack to allow flowthrough

B) You start it BEFORE you need it.

It will bring the temperature of the room it is in down regardless but it doesn't seem to do as well in the living room unless its been working before the temp in that room gets high.

I would expect to have the same problem with AC though.

As for humidity, I can't speak for that. I've used it in the rain before, but in CO thats the only time there is any real humidity about and its cancelled by the fact that the rain itself cools things down.

I would tend to agree that humidity would probably reduce effectiveness.

I would also steer you away from standalone units placed inside. A swampcooler really does need to be pulling air from outside and causing a flowthrough to some exit point.

[ambushed]

Only now, in my third year of ownership, has my swamp cooler started to stink on occasion, and stink horribly. I've tried odorizers, but the smell is so bad I need a whole $3.50 bottle per gallon! I've tried both small and larger amounts of bleach, which is not a good option since the unit/air smells strongly of bleach for a few days then the smell returns.

The operating manual says nothing about this, nor is there any way to clean anything except to remove the dust from the filter.

What's going on, and what can I do about it?

[Alice The Goon]

Drain, flush, then clean the reservoir. If the problem still persists, change the pads, they should be changed every year or two anyway. If you can't do that right away, I've known people to put Liquid Downy in the reservoir for temporary relief, but of course you'll have a Downy smell throughout the house.

[drachillix]

Originally Posted by ambushed

Only now, in my third year of ownership, has my swamp cooler started to stink on occasion, and stink horribly. I've tried odorizers, but the smell is so bad I need a whole $3.50 bottle per gallon! I've tried both small and larger amounts of bleach, which is not a good option since the unit/air smells strongly of bleach for a few days then the smell returns.

The operating manual says nothing about this, nor is there any way to clean anything except to remove the dust from the filter.

What's going on, and what can I do about it?

A little splash of bleach now and then won't hurt either way if your cooler is easily accessible. Just throw in a couple cups on your way out with it running, by the time you get back the bleach smell will have dissipated and your cooler will be nice and clean. Something else to consider, there are cardboard pads out there treated with stuff to make them resistant to mold, algae, etc. Might be worth a few extra bucks if price is less of an object than hassle.

If accessiblility is a problem, something along the lines of toilet tank bleach tablets may be the way to go, just put them in a glass dish so they don't eat a hole in the tank where they are sitting.

[LVBoPeep]

When I lived with my husband, we had a swamp cooler. (We live in northern Nevada and the summers here are brutally hot.) It was heavenly. At night we actually turned it off because we'd get too cold.>>>


WHAT??? BRUTALLY HOT???

Sorry, I live in Southern Nevada where it is, indeed, unmercifully hot and I wish to God every day between June 15th and Sept 1st. that I was somewhere in the northern part of my state.

We have 2 swamp coolers and an air conditioner (in an admittedly crappy ghetto fabluous trailer with really poor air flow planning). The swamps (we use one or the other) work fantastic until about June 15th, then nothing works well until about August 31st or so.

They do stink too.. but I will say they do work better in May/June than our air conditioning works in July/August.

[ambushed]

Originally Posted by trublmakr

Drain, flush, then clean the reservoir. If the problem still persists, change the pads, they should be changed every year or two anyway.

I've tried cleaning the reservior without success. Regarding "pads", exactly what are they and how do I find them? The owner's manual for this model makes no mention of them. I've looked and can't see anything accessible that might be called "pads", although I imagine that they are used to absorb the water and allow it to be evaporated by the blower.

Furthermore, I can't open anything other than the outer door that admits water; there is no apparent way of opening anything else, even with a screwdriver. What am I missing?

[ambushed]

Originally Posted by drachillix

A little splash of bleach now and then won't hurt either way if your cooler is easily accessible. Just throw in a couple cups on your way out with it running, by the time you get back the bleach smell will have dissipated and your cooler will be nice and clean. Something else to consider, there are cardboard pads out there treated with stuff to make them resistant to mold, algae, etc. Might be worth a few extra bucks if price is less of an object than hassle.

I think I can picture these cardboard pads you speak of, but I'm not sure. They're pieces of cardboard impregnated with various chemicals that are designed to be placed in water-using devices? In what kind of store would I find such things, and what would I ask for? I've asked for algae, mold, or odor treatment products at places like Home Depot and I've only ever been directed to deodorants (which were grossly inadequate, as I've explained earlier).

Originally Posted by drachillix

If accessiblility is a problem, something along the lines of toilet tank bleach tablets may be the way to go, just put them in a glass dish so they don't eat a hole in the tank where they are sitting.

Hmmm... Do you think this would be a better option than what you suggested at the beginning of your post?

[Cowgirl Jules]

Originally Posted by ambushed

I've tried cleaning the reservior without success. Regarding "pads", exactly what are they and how do I find them? The owner's manual for this model makes no mention of them. I've looked and can't see anything accessible that might be called "pads", although I imagine that they are used to absorb the water and allow it to be evaporated by the blower.

Furthermore, I can't open anything other than the outer door that admits water; there is no apparent way of opening anything else, even with a screwdriver. What am I missing?

Once upon a time, I used to work for a farm supply place, and sold a lot of them. There are cardboard pads and some made out of some sisal-looking material (excelsior). Sometimes they were also sold in a roll, and you have to cut them to fit your cooler. People snapped them up at the start of the summer, I think because they were kind of hard to find. I think I've seen them since at places like Lowe's and Home Depot, although I don't pay much attention as my landlord is really good about taking care of the cooler for me.

Mine is a rooftop mounted one and blows out the bottom, so if yours blows out the side, it might look a little different. The pads go along the sides; the water is sprayed up, trickles down the pads, and the incoming air is sucked through them.

Here, Wikipedia has a good description.

[Alice The Goon]

Originally Posted by ambushed

I've tried cleaning the reservior without success. Regarding "pads", exactly what are they and how do I find them? The owner's manual for this model makes no mention of them. I've looked and can't see anything accessible that might be called "pads", although I imagine that they are used to absorb the water and allow it to be evaporated by the blower.

Furthermore, I can't open anything other than the outer door that admits water; there is no apparent way of opening anything else, even with a screwdriver. What am I missing?

Odd. Is it a small, portable unit or a whole-house unit? Maybe a small unit works differently but I've never used one of those. I have to admit that I've never actually worked on a big one, because I've always rented and that was the maintenance man's job. Does the manual contain an 800-number to call for assistance?

[gigi]

Thanks for all the info. I am suffering with a window fan that is pushing warm stuffy air around (the sad part is it's not even very hot out yet; this building just absorbs any warmth) and something's gotta give before summer. Sounds like I should hope that they give us permission to put in portable air conditioners (sucks to have to pay for it ourselves) and use the portable air cooler as my second choice.