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Old 05-30-2006, 08:29 AM
Fear Itself Fear Itself is online now
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Kneading Bread Dough with a Dough Hook

I enjoy cooking, but I am not much of a baker. I make bread with a bread machine, but at least I only use it to knead the dough, then bake it in a loaf pan in the oven. I started with some recipes from a bread machine book, and modified them a little for my taste. I have a dynamite whole wheat-oat bread that turns out pretty good, though the bubble structure is usually very fine, like a sponge.

I also have a Kitchen-Aid counter-top mixer with a dough hook, and I would like to try some of my recipes using it to do the kneading. But I don't know how long or how often to knead the dough with a dough hook. My bread machine kneads the dough twice, for about 20 minutes each time, but I'm not sure that would translate over to the Kitchen-Aid, as the paddle in the bread machine seems to spin much faster than the dough hook does.

Does anybody have experience kneading bread dough with a Kitchen-Aid? Will kneading with a dough hook change the fine bubble structure I get with the bread machine? And, yes, I know the best bread is hand-kneaded; I'm lazy, so let's skip that lecture.
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  #2  
Old 05-30-2006, 08:33 AM
jjimm jjimm is offline
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You're in luck: you're talking to someone who just pulled a hand-kneaded loaf out of the oven two minutes ago. The recipe I followed says "Knead dough for 10 minutes by hand, or 5 minutes with a bread hook." So now you know.

Can't help you with the bubble structure, I'm afraid. How about experimenting with the same dough split in two, one kneaded by hook and one by hand?
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Old 05-30-2006, 09:19 AM
beagledave beagledave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fear Itself

Does anybody have experience kneading bread dough with a Kitchen-Aid? Will kneading with a dough hook change the fine bubble structure I get with the bread machine? And, yes, I know the best bread is hand-kneaded; I'm lazy, so let's skip that lecture.
I use a Kitchen Aid as well. I won't lecture you about hand kneading, but I will point out that when you work the bread with your hands..you will "feel" the dough change as the gluten develops. If you know that "feel", you can hand check the dough. Some folks say that it feels like a baby's butt

You should also do a "window pane" test. To perform the window pane test, you pinch off some dough, roll it into a ball shape, and then start stretching it. You should be able to stretch it far enough that you can see light through it without the dough tearing.
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Old 05-30-2006, 09:27 AM
Lissla Lissar Lissla Lissar is offline
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Although that doesn't work with some whole grain breads.

The texture changes a lot. When it's silky and stretchy instead of sticky it's done.
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Old 05-30-2006, 09:54 AM
Trunk Trunk is offline
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I make pizza dough with a dough hook.

Try it. Worst that happens is that you ruin $.49 cents worth of ingredients. Just be careful about over-kneading. That can happen with the dough hook.

Also -- lightly oil the dough hook before kneading. It will make removing the dough ball from the hook easier.
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Old 05-30-2006, 11:07 AM
StGermain StGermain is online now
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Doing a recipe that makes two loaves, I usually knead with my stand mixer for about 8 minutes then take it out and finish it by hand, about another 5 minutes or more. You learn the proper texture by doing it.

StG
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Old 05-30-2006, 11:28 AM
romansperson romansperson is offline
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Knead your dough until it is smooth, elastic and develops a very slight sheen on the surface. It usually takes about 5 minutes with a dough hook.
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Old 05-30-2006, 12:32 PM
scott62 scott62 is offline
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I'm a baker and I've never heard of a dough hook. Can anyone provide a link or explanation?
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Old 05-30-2006, 12:42 PM
Waenara Waenara is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott62
I'm a baker and I've never heard of a dough hook. Can anyone provide a link or explanation?
A dough hook is an attachment for a stand-mixer. Here's a picture of a KitchenAid mixer with a dough hook.
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Old 05-30-2006, 12:44 PM
scott62 scott62 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waenara
A dough hook is an attachment for a stand-mixer. Here's a picture of a KitchenAid mixer with a dough hook.

Oh yes, I see now. We just use a much bigger one at work. I wasn't sure if that's what the OP meant. Ours is about 3 feet long.
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Old 05-30-2006, 01:03 PM
beagledave beagledave is offline
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One thing that I neglectred to mention, you might want to include an "autolyse" in your kneading routine. Don't add salt in the intitial ingredients. After you've needed awhile (but not before full gluten formation), stop and let the dough "rest" for about 20 minutes..THEN add the salt and finish the kneading.

From http://www.baking911.com/terms/baking_ab.htm

Quote:
Autolyse: (pronounced ah-toh-leez) Yeasted recipes - A short rest called an autolyse comes right after mixing the flour, yeast, oil, and water. It cuts down on your kneading time and allow the dough to bake into a lighter bread with a more open crumb. Here's how an autolyse works. It allows the flour time to fully absorb the water, so the dough is less sticky when you knead it; It helps the gluten to both bond and break down, resulting in a dough that's quicker to knead and easier to shape; It gives the yeast time to rehydrate fully so you don't end up with yeast bits in the dough. You'll notice in the recipe that the salt goes in after the autolyse. This is because salt causes gluten to contract and toughen, preventing the gluten from absorbing as much water and thus fully benefiting from the autolyse.
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  #12  
Old 05-30-2006, 01:19 PM
Fear Itself Fear Itself is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beagledave
One thing that I neglectred to mention, you might want to include an "autolyse" in your kneading routine. Don't add salt in the intitial ingredients. After you've needed awhile (but not before full gluten formation), stop and let the dough "rest" for about 20 minutes..THEN add the salt and finish the kneading.
Now that makes sense, I will try it. Do you know if it works with recipes using some whole wheat flour, or is that a white bread technique only?
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Old 05-30-2006, 02:03 PM
beagledave beagledave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fear Itself
Now that makes sense, I will try it. Do you know if it works with recipes using some whole wheat flour, or is that a white bread technique only?
It works with any dough that forms gluten..including whole wheat.
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  #14  
Old 05-30-2006, 03:11 PM
Malienation Malienation is offline
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Keep in mind, btw, that KitchenAid warns against using higher than speed setting #2 for kneading bread dough (higher speeds can damage the machine, as well as toughen the gluten in the dough)
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  #15  
Old 05-30-2006, 03:32 PM
Lissla Lissar Lissla Lissar is offline
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Since straight salt will kill yeast, how does one go about adding it at the end of the autolyse period?


I've had pretty good results with letting dough autolyse with the salt already in.
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