Win98 Networking - tech help needed!

[Athena]

Me and SO both have laptops running Windows 98. We've also just ordered 2 brand spankin' new copies of HalfLife. We want to play multiplayer games between the two of us. Used to be that software publishers would allow something like a null modem cable to be used for local multiplayer games. But NOOOOO, not anymore. I gotta set up a bloody LAN just to play this stupid game.

My knowledge of networking was up to date circa 1994, when LANtastic was the cool mini LAN to use. Nowadays, I'm an idiot. I gather than Win98 has the ability to set up a simple LAN. So how hard is this gonna be? Do I have to buy network cards for the laptops, or is there some simple way to use serial or something? Keep in mind all I wanna do is play a game, so cheaper/easier is better.

If I have to buy network cards, can anyone recommend good cheap PCMCIA cards?

[LazarusLong42]

So far as I know, you're going to at least need two Ethernet cards, one for each laptop. If you're only networking two computers, you don't actually need a hub, but you need a special CAT5 cable (a crossover cable) to connect the computers. Without that, you'll need a hub.

Anyone out there know of any way to do this without two Ethernet cards? I thought that null-serial was still available.

LL

[Aglarond]

Nope. NIC's are the only way most games will let you do it any more. LL is right, though. You can do it without a hub by switch 2 and 6, and 3 and 5 or something like that. I haven't tried it in a few years. I could probably find it if I looked hard enough, but I'm too lazy.

[micilin]

The wires to switch are 1 with 3 and 2 with 6. It's a pain though, and you need a special tool and a lot of patience, better to buy an already crossed-over cable, or get some computer store geek to do it for you. (Or get a hub, how much is a cheapo hub nowadays? On top of the cost of two PCMCIA network cards, it can't be that much, with the added bonus of LAN parties).

I'll stick my neck out here: If you could understand networking in 1994, then you shouldn't have TOO many problems with windows 98.

As for Halflife deathmatches: they're worth all the fiddling that you'll end up doing.

[Athena]

I'm definitely of the "I'd rather spend money than rewire something myself" school, so if I gotta get a hub, I'll get a hub. How much we talking? Once again, any suggestions for ethernet cards?

This damn game better be worth it....

[Aglarond]

My personal brand name recommendation for NICs is 3COM. I've had a lot of luck with them in the past and that's all I use. As for a hub, hubs are "stupid". It's hard to go wrong with one of those things. A group of us got together about 4 years ago and bought several 4-port no-name hubs for like $10 a piece. They're all still working.

[sailor]

I have a simple network device which is pretty much just a cable which you plug into both USB ports. While it is not the thing to use if you are trying to hook up several dozen computers, it is just the thing for this type of application where you just want to connect two computers. I carry mine with my laptop at all times as it allows me to connect to any desktop with USB.

There are several similar products Belkin F5U104, USBnet, Linksys, etc

[Athena]

Sailor, that is EXACTLY what I need! Thanks a lot. I'll look into getting one o' these.

[neuroman]

So these USB network device things are normal "network adapters" than will support all the Win98 network protocols? (TCP/IP, IPX, etc.)

(This information wasn't readily apparent from looking at sailor's URL.)

[sailor]

yes, I have the USBnet thingy and it appears and works exactly like a LAN. My laptop appears on my desktop as part of the network, the network adaptor appears in the network properties using TCP/IP, Netbeui etc. For all purposes it is a LAN.

I think I paid under $60 for mine quite a while ago and I asuume they would be cheaper now.

[Athena]

My WAG is that the USB thingy is simply two USB Network Cards and any associated hub/router/whatever stuff built into one case. Comes with the cables and everything. I didn't even realize you could buy USB Network cards, but a quick search brought up many of 'em.

'course, now I gotta buy a USB hub, so I can use my USB mouse and my USB network at the same time. This game is getting expensive...

[sailor]

Athena, with the USBnet you do not need anything else. That is ALL you need. Plug it in, load the software and in a couple of minutes you are up and running.

You are thinking of LANcards that plug into the USB port. Those are a different thing altogether

I forgot, the Xircom thing was originally Entrega USBnet but Entrega was bought by Xircom. You might still find it as Entrega USBnet and all the original reviews etc are under that name.

BELKIN USB DIRECT F5U104
DAL DIRECT-LINQ BF-100C

[Athena]

Oh, I realized it was all you need. I was waxing poetic on the idea of USB Network cards in general - NOT the thing you're describing.

But I *do* need the hub, unless this thingy you desribe will make my one USB port into two (need USB for the network, and for the mouse.)

[sailor]

I think I misunderstood your post. I see what you mean that you need a hub because you have a USB mouse. I have a regular PS2 mouse for the laptop so I don't have that problem but I still see no benefits to USB keyboards/mice. Traditonal types are much cheaper (heck I have many mice I don't use) and work fine without using USB. If I get a USB keyboard or mouse I see no benefit and I can see where one day I may have a USB problem and wonder if the keyboard has anything to do with it. I'd rather keep things separate.

My desktop has two USBports and I believe they are in parallel so I would think all you need to connect two USB devices to the laptop is a Y adapter. (maybe that is what they call a hub)

[handy]

Why cant you use the W98 serial/parl networking?

Network cards for laptops are pricey.

[Sam Stone]

If you get a hub, I recommend you get one of those cool new mini-hubs that have an internet proxy/firewall built into them. I think Dlink makes one for around $140. if you get one of those, then every computer on your hub can share an internet connection, and the firewall part will keep the little weenie hackers out of your computer.

[sailor]

>> Why cant you use the W98 serial/parl networking?

Handy, what is that exactly? You're not talking about the Direct Cable Connection which comes with Win95? That does not work as well or as fast as a network and it comes with WIN95. So what is it you are talking about?

[handy]

sailor, she said W98 not w95. W98 has way better networking than W95.

The game site might have other options for her.

[sailor]

>> W98 has way better networking than W95

Ok, but what is it? I have win98 on my laptop and I'd like to know.

[handy]

sailor, tons & tons of pages on it. Try START:H Search for 'network'

[Athena]

Actually, I would use serial or parallel port networking if it exists. For what I need to do, I think it's plenty fast enough. I wasn't sure if Win98 allowed the use of a simple cable for networking or not, though. I'll look into it.

sailor, for my laptop, the USB port was preferable because the BIOS will auto detect a USB mouse and let me use it without disabling the touchpad mouse. When I unplug the USB mouse, Win98 doesn't freak out or anything. For some reason, this doesn't work with a PS/2 style mouse - I'd have to disable/enable the touchpad whenever I went from mouse to touchpad. Not all laptops are like this - my SO's Sony works identically with either the PS/2 or USB mouse.

I'll have to look into the Y adaptor. All the hubs I find are rather pricey, and given that I've seen things like $50 keyboards come with 2 extra USB ports built in, the technology can't be that expensive.

dhanson, as far as hubs with firewalls, there's no need for one. I'm doing a local network to play a game, there's no internet connection involved. And hopefully no $140 item!

[astro]

Originally posted by sailor
>> Why cant you use the W98 serial/parl networking?

Handy, what is that exactly? You're not talking about the Direct Cable Connection which comes with Win95? That does not work as well or as fast as a network and it comes with WIN95. So what is it you are talking about?

I think Handy is talking about the Win98 version of DCC. Whether this will mimic or work with the networking protocols Athena indicated the game needed, I don't know.

[sailor]

Yeah, Handy is being kind of cryptic here. Getting information from him is like pulling teeth: slow and painful.

If he is talking about the DCC, I am familiar with it but it is not a LAN as such, it does not use the same protocols, it is something different (besides also being slower). While it may serve to transfer files I do not know if it would serve for that game.

If he is talking about true network I do not know how you can just connect two computers with a cable and get it to work.

handy, can you be a bit more specific and explain how you would do this?

By the way, I also use the Infrared (IrDA) connection between laptop and desktop. I wonder if you could use the IrDA connection between the two laptops. That would be neat, no physical connection.

[sailor]

Handy always leaves me scratching my head as I do not seem to follow his logic. It happened in some other threads before. Like this one and some others.

Handy, I think you need to be clearer because you just confuse the heck out of me.

[astro]

Originally posted by sailor


By the way, I also use the Infrared (IrDA) connection between laptop and desktop. I wonder if you could use the IrDA connection between the two laptops. That would be neat, no physical connection.

I imagine you could use it without too much fuss as in many Win98 setups the IR port is set up as a network port and has access to net protocols. I suspect it would be pretty pokey in real world use though. A game would probably run better over a pair of cheap 10 base T PC Card NICs (approx $35 each) and a little 4 port $ 25 hub.

Your USB LAN device sounds interesting. Any idea what the real world transfer rate is?

[sailor]

yeah, come to think about it, I think that game is much more likely to work over IrDA than over the Direct Cable Connection (where I think the chances are close to zero). Athena, do you have IrDA on both laptops? If the game does not require great transmission speed IrDA might work and save you spending a single dime.

I believe the specs for the USBnet transfer is lower than Ethernet (something like 6 MBPS but I am talking off the top of my head here). Let's see, I just transferred a file 28,850 Kb in 90 sec which is quite a bit slower but it could be affected by the disk drives. I use it regularly to transfer large amounts of information but I have never bothered to time it. I just copy all my files back and forth between desktop and laptop, often almost 1 GB at a time. My guess is it goes quite a bit faster than this experiment I just did would indicate... Hmmm, now I am curious.

When I got the USBnet I did consider getting a PCMCIA ethernet card and using Ethernet but USBnet is simpler and has the advantage I can connect to any other computer with USB. That was the deciding factor.

Getting back to Athena's game, I have no idea of what the transmission speed requirements are but if they are not too great IrDA would probably work pretty well. If it is a game that can be played over the internet, it should work fine over IrDA.

[handy]

I don't have Athena's game. If i did have Athena's game, I would have looked in Athena's game manual. Not having Athena's game manual, I'd have to search the net for Athena's game & then Athena's game manual as I did before but it seemed to be taking forever.

Now, it's possible to play some games with DCC, however, not having Athena's game manual, nor Athena's game, I can't know for sure.

[handy]

Here is yet another FAQ/Techincal manual, etc, about the game, from gamefaqs.com [note, its not the same faq as the other one I mentioned}
http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/dos.../half_life.txt

[sailor]

Handy I appreciate you are trying to be helpful but you need to express yourself more clearly or you just confuse the issues.

I do not really need to know that much about the game. Athena tells us she needs a LAN connection between the computers and I know pretty much *any* LAN connection will work, whether USB, Ethernet, IrDA etc because they use the same protocols, are bidirectional etc.

You said "Why cant you use the W98 serial/parl networking?" and when I asked if you could explain you said "W98 has way better networking than W95" which still clarifies nothing. If what you are referring to is the Direct Cable Connection, I would NOT consider it networking, it is not full duplex etc. I doubt the game could use this unless it has been specifically designed for it.

So, If you *do* have a solution we are missing, I for one would be very interested in learning about it, but please explain it clearly in detail, don't just throw a few vague words and leave us wondering. Maybe games are routinely designed to run over the DCC. I really don't know this and I would be curious to know.

[sailor]

Athena, did you find a solution? We are all biting our nails over this, don't keep us in the dark.

BTW, i have the game Red Baron 3D and it is sometimes a bit sluggish is I play against the machine but I read that if I would play against other players over the net it will be much faster because my computer does not need to simulate the enemy as now I have a "real" enemy. I found this interesting.

[handy]

sailor, the reason I posted the faqs is because this person doesn't even have the game yet! 2. the faqs state it can be played by modem, thus, I suppose they could direct connect their modems & play the game they don't have yet cause they ordered it from amazon.com.......

[ed]

FYI about Half Life games:

Half Life requires TCP/IP or IPX to work. One machine will have to run as a server while the other would just connect as a client. The designated server will play slower, and if the laptop in question barely meets system requirements the game might not be very playable. Half-Life was really designed to be played on a network (or internet) where one machine could sit and be a dedicated server, allowing large groups of people to log on (30+ if the server can handle it), as opposed to "head to head" gaming with only 2 computers involved.

Oh, and USB mice are nice for gaming because the refresh rate is much higher than a PS/2 mouse, allowing for much greater accuracy in aiming. Not really a serious application, but I have a port open.

[lovelee]

There are network "kits" that you can purchase at (insert computer megalomart here) that contain 2 ethernet cards and a hub and all the cables you need.

Then again, you may already have a solution by now. *grin*

[sewalk]

If you haven't already taken the plunge, allow me to offer a couple of suggestions:

First, port replicators for each laptop may be something to look into. Many have additional USB ports and 10/100base-T Ethernet ports.

Next, USB>Ethernet adapters would be the way to go versus PCMCIA. I have a Linksys 10/100 USB adapter and it works very well. It is about half the cost ($50 street price) of a comparable 10/100 PCMCIA adapter. Ethernet is very preferable to a direct USB network for the expandability it offers. 100baseTX is a very solid standard and dozens of different types of devices exist that connect using that standard. USB direct networking is pretty limited in expandibility.

[sailor]

>> USB direct networking is pretty limited in expandibility.

Well, yes very true. But if that is all she needs, then, that is all she needs.

A USB network solution is much cheaper than what you propose. Yes, it is a tad slower and limited in expandability (it *is* expandable though, how many conputers does she think she may *possibly* be connecting? If suddenly one day she feels the urge to have a network of 10 computers at home, I think fitting them with ethernet adapters would be a minor concern).

Your advice is like saying to someone "don't get a small car, get a big 20 ton truck in case you may want to start an earth moving business".

IMHO, the USB network does everything she would need and would be the cheapest solution. I also mentioned the IrDA possibility but she has not come back to comment...