What makes cynics...cynical?

[Diamonds02]

There's some types people I understand. Then there are types of people who I don't understand. Cynics are one type.

Why drives some people to compulsively question others' motives? What do they gain by expecting the worst?

I used to think it was because these people have been screwed over a lot in their lives. Then I recognized that I too have been screwed over a lot in my life, but I'm still not that cynical. I think there are other factors.

If you know a lot of cynical people or are cynical yourself, please educate me.

[silenus]

Originally Posted by Diamonds02

Why drives some people to compulsively question others' motives?

Years of experience and a firm grasp of reality.

[Revenant Threshold]

For me it's not a case of choosing to be cynical; I don't actively want to question people's motives or assume the worst, it's just who I am.

I think you're right in saying being screwed over a lot in your life is likely to make you cynical; if you're constantly exposed to the worst, then assuming it is perfectly reasonable. I think though there's the added group of people like me who haven't had too bad lives, but are just cynical bastards.

[Diamonds02]

Originally Posted by silenus

Years of experience and a firm grasp of reality.

What about young people? I think there's more young cynics than older ones.

[Oakminster]

I'm often cynical. Life experience has a lot to do with it, and my occupation is highly conducive to it as well. When you deal with the general public in high stress situations, you see people at their worst. To a certain extent, becoming a cynic is a defense mechanism.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by Diamonds02

What about young people? I think there's more young cynics than older ones.

The older ones stop questioning people's motives and just assume everybody has bad intentions. Or it could very well be a generational thing.

Personally? I'm not sure how well I can explain it. Part of it is a desire to know what I'm talking about instead of just being persuaded, and a desire not to be taken advantage of.

[Sage Rat]

The cynical answer:

Everyone else.

[Diamonds02]

Originally Posted by Marley23

The older ones stop questioning people's motives and just assume everybody has bad intentions. Or it could very well be a generational thing.

Personally? I'm not sure how well I can explain it. Part of it is a desire to know what I'm talking about instead of just being persuaded, and a desire not to be taken advantage of.

That's pretty understandable. But, what about the cases when there's little or no personal involvement. Has anyone visited televisionwithoutpity.com? There's a LOT of cynical people there, yet it is highly unlikely that any of them will come in contact with those they seem to be so critical of. I was apalled to find out that some of them believed that this girl from the real world lied about having cancer just to get camera time. However, there's zero evidence that this girl lied.

[Electronic Chaos]

Originally Posted by Diamonds02

What do they gain by expecting the worst?

Expect the worst, and you're never disappointed.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by Diamonds02

Has anyone visited televisionwithoutpity.com? There's a LOT of cynical people there, yet it is highly unlikely that any of them will come in contact with those they seem to be so critical of.

Does that matter?

However, there's zero evidence that this girl lied.

I doubt that's the way they feel about it.

[jayjay]

If you scratch a cynic, you'll find a romantic. It's the constant disappointment of being faced with reality-as-it-is when you're expecting reality-as-it-should-be that layers the cynic's armor around him, like nacre over a grain of sand in the mantle of an oyster.

[CynicalGabe]

Bitter disappointment and shattered idealism.

[Oakminster]

Originally Posted by jayjay

If you scratch a cynic, you'll find a romantic. It's the constant disappointment of being faced with reality-as-it-is when you're expecting reality-as-it-should-be that layers the cynic's armor around him, like nacre over a grain of sand in the mantle of an oyster.

Well said. Poetic, and true.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by jayjay

If you scratch a cynic, you'll find a romantic.

The common phrase is actually "an idealist," but I'm quite open - at least with myself, I'm not sure other people get it - about being a romantic and an idealist. I've always rejected the "disappointed" description.

[Rigamarole]

Originally Posted by jayjay

If you scratch a cynic, you'll find a romantic. It's the constant disappointment of being faced with reality-as-it-is when you're expecting reality-as-it-should-be that layers the cynic's armor around him, like nacre over a grain of sand in the mantle of an oyster.

Wow, that was beautiful. *wipes a tear*

It would have been more beautiful if I knew what "nacre" was.

[Walloon]

Cynicism is cheap, that's why.

[madmonk28]

People consider me a cynic, but I just see myself as a realist. I find people who aren't what is considered cynical to be pretty dim. My brother and sister are both kind of idealistic and I am constantly amazed at how much of life is just going completely over their heads. I feel that cynical is just another term for smart.

[devilsknew]

Originally Posted by Rigamarole

It would have been more beautiful if I knew what "nacre" was.

Molluscan scarring. A beautiful sheen to scars most valuable. Clam spittle and irritation.

[Rebecca DiMwitter]

Nacre--See also: mother of pearl.

I was going to ask this question just last week of y'all. Glad to see it posted. My experience with cynics is that they run the gamut from the "I recognise the irony/idealism vs. reality in your statement, but I choose not to illustrate it to you, preferring to enjoy my cynical awareness all by myself", to "I hear the devil on my shoulder whispering and so I feel I must echo his refrain out loud to you for your own enlightenment", to "I cannot shout out loudly enough, or at enough length, about my recognition of (anyone's) foolish fantasy notions, both for my own amusement and for the betterment of mankind!" And if you cannot fail to point out your OWN crossing of the line into unreality about a situation from time to time, you are called self-deprecating, which is my own favorite "brand" of cynicism.

I felt myself to be a fairly cynical individual until my b/f came along to prove to me that I'm a hapless Pollyanna in comparison to his finely-honed and acerbic cynicism. I concede defeat at his hands. It's quite attractive, actually.

--Beck

[Anaamika]

I'm a cynic and an optimist and an idealist and a romantic all at the same time. I'ma cynic because of the other three things...I have to protect myself somehow. So I hope for the best but expect the worst. I've got a sensitive little heart, it needs walls.

[Thudlow Boink]

To some extent, the people who are most likely to suspect others of X (cheating, lying, or whatever) are those who are most prone to doing X themselves.

I'm not suggesting this applies to all cynics, but it may well apply to some. (As, on the other side of the coin, people who are overly trusting may be so because it would never occur to them to be dishonest or try to take advantage of someone.)

[WhyNot]

Originally Posted by Anaamika

I'm a cynic and an optimist and an idealist and a romantic all at the same time. I'ma cynic because of the other three things...I have to protect myself somehow. So I hope for the best but expect the worst. I've got a sensitive little heart, it needs walls.

ditto.

AND, I think I'm unfairly branded a cynic by people who don't know the meaning of the word well. I'm acerbic, biting and very very dry in my humor, and many people misinterpret that as my being cynical. I my say things that sound cynical, but I'm really just amusing myself (or trying to amuse others), I don't always believe in what I'm saying.

Most of the time, inside, I'm optimistic. But I'm terrified of being thought stupid or wrong by predicting good when something's actually bad. So I'll say a thing is probably going to be bad and be "pleasantly surprised" when it's good, because that way I don't feel I'll look foolish. I'd rather look cynical and mistaken than ignorant and wrong.

So it's kinda complicated, for me.

Or it's not complicated at all, and I'm just a broken, jaded romantic with an arrow through my heart and a bit of grit in my mantle.



(see? )

[Lightray]

Originally Posted by Diamonds02

That's pretty understandable. But, what about the cases when there's little or no personal involvement. Has anyone visited televisionwithoutpity.com? There's a LOT of cynical people there, yet it is highly unlikely that any of them will come in contact with those they seem to be so critical of. I was apalled to find out that some of them believed that this girl from the real world lied about having cancer just to get camera time. However, there's zero evidence that this girl lied.

Heh. I visit (& post, as "Avery") on televisionwithoutpity.com, and reading your comment my first thought was "I could see that".

I think their (our) particular cynicism in regards to television is well-earned, the result of bitter experience repeated over and over again. Having heard and seen documented all the bottom-feeding antics that the famewhores on shows like the Real World get up to, that wouldn't shock me at all. Just like I'm naturally going to assume that most of the "drama" portrayed is contrived by script and/or editing.

To give another example in this context: I do not consider myself a cynic because I expect an episode of Seventh Heaven to be drek -- all Seventh Heaven episodes I've seen have been drek. I would consider myself a cynic if I expected an episode of Battlestar: Galactica to be drek, since they've been good thus far.

[YaWanna]

Originally Posted by WhyNot

ditto.

AND, I think I'm unfairly branded a cynic by people who don't know the meaning of the word well. I'm acerbic, biting and very very dry in my humor, and many people misinterpret that as my being cynical. I my say things that sound cynical, but I'm really just amusing myself (or trying to amuse others), I don't always believe in what I'm saying.

Me, too.

[Walloon]

Originally Posted by WhyNot

So I'll say a thing is probably going to be bad and be "pleasantly surprised" when it's good, because that way I don't feel I'll look foolish. I'd rather look cynical and mistaken than ignorant and wrong.

Cynicism is also ignorance if you are wrong. And the boy who cried wolf falsely too often was eventually ignored.

[WhyNot]

Originally Posted by Walloon

Cynicism is also ignorance if you are wrong. And the boy who cried wolf falsely too often was eventually ignored.

Not the way my brain works. It was oddly worded, I had a poor time articulating, so let me try an example:

Me: "We better leave extra time this morning. It's gorgeous out, and all the Lincoln Park Trixies will be clogging up the roads."
My husband: "Cynical much? We'll have plenty of time."

If, in fact, the roads are a mess, I'm right, and that's good. If I'm wrong and we get there early, it's not because I was ignorant of anything, just that things weren't as complicated as I predicted them to be. I thought it all out, and am therefore not dumb, just wrong. That's OK. On the other hand, if it went like this:

Me: "Mapquest says we only need 18 minutes to get to the zoo, so if we leave at 20 'till, we should be fine."

And, as it turns out, there's tons of traffic, then I feel like an idiot for not thinking that of course, on a beautiful day more people will be out and about and traffic might be heavy. Now I feel dumb. I don't like that.

So is that really being cynical, or just planning for the worst and hoping for the best? I get labelled cynical, but I don't know that that's accurate.

[RealityChuck]

No matter how cynical you are, it's impossible to keep up.

[D_Odds]

Originally Posted by Walloon

Cynicism is also ignorance if you are wrong.

So if an optimist is wrong its...?
If an idealist is wrong its...?
If a pessimist is wrong its...?

I'm curious. Does that only apply to cynics, or is anyone who makes a mistake ignorant? And if it only applies to cynics, can you explain why?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Originally Posted by RealityChuck

No matter how cynical you are, it's impossible to keep up.

Lily Tomlin!

I think cynicism is just a result of recognizing reality.

[Marley23]

He might be saying that it's ignorant if you always adopt that attitude, even if the situation you're in doesn't call for it. In point of fact, I'm not that suspicious of people. I don't trust instutitions at all, but when we're dealing with idividuals I'm fairly trusting.

I've accepted the cynic label these days, but I think you can see I'm still not sure it's accurate.

[Cliffy]

Originally Posted by Diamonds02

Then I recognized that I too have been screwed over a lot in my life, but I'm still not that cynical. I think there are other factors.

Must be that we're smarter than you.

Seriously, it's tough not to sound like a dick in saying this (not that that's ever stopped me before), but I don't understand how someone could reach adulthood without being disappointed enough to know that most people aren't trustworthy. Although I think not out of malice, mostly -- more out of laziness, occasional stupidity, and an absent-mindedness borne out of not caring enough to take things seriously when others are depending on you for some reason. But yeah, if you're not cynical, I think you're pie-eyed, because there's a lot more evidence on one side of the ledger than the other.

--Cliffy

[XJETGIRLX]

Originally Posted by Diamonds02

What do they gain by expecting the worst?

A head start on everyone else. Seriously. Not that we don't appreciate when good things happen, but if you've steeled yourself for the worst you're more likely to know how to handle it when it happens. You don't often hear of people having to 'prepare for good news' now, do you?

[Walloon]

Originally Posted by D_Odds

So if an optimist is wrong its...?
If an idealist is wrong its...?
If a pessimist is wrong its...?

Ignorance, ignorance, and ignorance.

Cynicism gets no exemption from charges of ignorance when it is wrong. That's what my word "also" ("cynicism is also ignorance") was all about. And if you are wrong again and again, people will start to tune you out.

[XJETGIRLX]

Originally Posted by Walloon

Ignorance, ignorance, and ignorance.

Cynicism gets no exemption from charges of ignorance when it is wrong. That's what my word "also" ("cynicism is also ignorance") was all about. And if you are wrong again and again, people will start to tune you out.

Then that's a separate discussion altogether, and has nothing to do with why cynics are cynical. That's an observation on the state of people who are wrong, not people who are cynics.

[D_Odds]

Originally Posted by Walloon

Ignorance, ignorance, and ignorance.

Cynicism gets no exemption from charges of ignorance when it is wrong. That's what my word "also" ("cynicism is also ignorance") was all about. And if you are wrong again and again, people will start to tune you out.

Ah, I see.

If a person is wrong, it is ignorance. As I've been known to make a mistake maybe once a decade* or so, I guess I'm ignorant.









decade...second...I keep getting those mixed up

[mrklutz]

Originally Posted by Diamonds02

What about young people? I think there's more young cynics than older ones.

That's because when we get old people start to call us curmudgeons.

[KlondikeGeoff]

Originally Posted by jayjay

If you scratch a cynic, you'll find a romantic. It's the constant disappointment of being faced with reality-as-it-is when you're expecting reality-as-it-should-be that layers the cynic's armor around him, like nacre over a grain of sand in the mantle of an oyster.

Bravo! (Or Brava, as the case may be).

[Lightray]

Originally Posted by Walloon

Cynicism is also ignorance if you are wrong. And the boy who cried wolf falsely too often was eventually ignored.

If a cynic cries wolf, and I get eaten, then at least he tried to warn me.

If an optomist insists that there is no wolf, and I get eaten, then he's pretty much at fault for my becoming lunch.

If the cynic cries wolf, and I'm so stupid as to not believe him this time, and I get eaten, then the world is no worse off for losing me, is it?

[Dunderman]

Originally Posted by Diamonds02

What do they gain by expecting the worst?

Here's a big chunk of your confusion. What you expect is decided by several factors, such as previous experience and general mindset. It's not the sort of thing you can do a cost-benefit analysis of. It just happens.

[Diamonds02]

Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink

To some extent, the people who are most likely to suspect others of X (cheating, lying, or whatever) are those who are most prone to doing X themselves.

I'm not suggesting this applies to all cynics, but it may well apply to some. (As, on the other side of the coin, people who are overly trusting may be so because it would never occur to them to be dishonest or try to take advantage of someone.)

Originally Posted by Cliffy

Must be that we're smarter than you.

Seriously, it's tough not to sound like a dick in saying this (not that that's ever stopped me before), but I don't understand how someone could reach adulthood without being disappointed enough to know that most people aren't trustworthy. Although I think not out of malice, mostly -- more out of laziness, occasional stupidity, and an absent-mindedness borne out of not caring enough to take things seriously when others are depending on you for some reason. But yeah, if you're not cynical, I think you're pie-eyed, because there's a lot more evidence on one side of the ledger than the other.

--Cliffy

Interesting. I wouldn't say that I'm dumb, but I'm pretty impulsive and not the most reflective person. I'm definately capable of slowing down and thinking critically, but it's not something I do naturally. I'm also pretty straightfoward and even a little blunt. I may expect and assume subconsciously that everyone else is the same way.

Until a year or two ago, the only things I cared about was good food, sleeping, parties, and sports. Again, I probably assumed that everyone else is the same way. Those things are still high on my list but getting stable/decent income and moving out has jumped up on my list also. The latter takes a little bit more calculation and planning. And yes, the more I plan, scheme, and strategize the more I recognize other people doing the same thing. But, while I think I'm becoming more realistic, I don't think I'm getting to the cynical point.

Then again, one of my aunts is more of a "hippie" than I am, but she is the MOST cynical person I've ever known. Back to square one!

[pseudotriton ruber ruber]

I'm with Cliffy on this one. I don't even get the question. Cynical, to me, just means "sensible." If your mother tells you she loves you, check it out. Trust, but verify. Don't take any wooden nickels. It just seems common-sensical to me not to take the word of someone you don't know for sure to be worthy of your deep and abiding trust (i.e., anyone), but to question and investigate. Is that being cynical? It seems to me that NOT to be at least a little cynical is to be naive and lazy.

I try not to be rude, but "Would you mind showing me how you reach that conclusion?" seems much more sensible than "Huh, I have no idea why you think so but I'll think so too"--is that a cynical position?

[kelly5078]

It depends.

Do you mean being cynical WRT things like the Iraq war? In that case, I think it's just because I have a brain.

Do you mean things like rah-rah corporate meetings with managers who've drunk the kool-aid? Again, I have a brain, but I think the motivation is that this is so not me I don't know why I'm being bothered.

Sometimes, though, I revert to a cynical posture as a reflection of my own self-doubt. It isn't exactly sour grapes, though it's close; it's more like "I recognize the grapes are probably sweet, but I don't think I can get them, so I'm going to say something nasty about them anyway."

[Anaamika]

Count me in as saying being cynical is necessary for survival. I think you have an unnecessarily negative view of cynicism. It doesn't mean I reject everything first sight, it just means I look at most things twice, hesitate, look before leaping, and often save my heart and my sanity.

Do I still get hurt? Sure. But it's not such a shock.
Do I still fall? Hell yeah. But you know, I expected it, so I can pick myself up again.
And do I still do things without thought, and enjoy my life? Yeah, occasionally. I miss the innocent naive me sometimes but when I think of the cost of being like that....


cynicism for me.

[Walloon]

Originally Posted by Lightray

If the cynic cries wolf, and I'm so stupid as to not believe him this time, and I get eaten, then the world is no worse off for losing me, is it?

What happens to the cynic's credibility when he cries wolf 364 days a year, and there's no wolf? How does the cynic convince people when there really is a wolf on the 365th day?

[Anaamika]

Originally Posted by Walloon

What happens to the cynic's credibility when he cries wolf 364 days a year, and there's no wolf? How does the cynic convince people when there really is a wolf on the 365th day?

Huh? How do you know we're crying wolf to anyone?

For me anyway it comes down to two things:

I'm looking out for myself and those I love. If you want to blithely walk into a hole in the floor, no skin off my back.
And if I am careful 365 times out of the year and there is only one wolf but you're not...who gets eaten by the wolf?

Why is it the cynic's responsibility to make people believe him? It's other people's lookout, not mine. This is not to say I never warn people, but this is exactly what I get. "You're overreacting." So I shrug, and hope for the best, but often the worst happens to them - even though I predicted it!

I'm not being cynical so I can tell people what to do.

[Shagnasty]

1) I fully realize the fact that I am but a peon on this earth with is a peon in the galaxy which is beyond infinitesimal in this universe.

2) I fully realize that I WILL die someday as will my wife and children. One of my children already died tragically. Those stories about deaths you read in newspapers and elsewhere aren't something that happens to other people. You are in the line for the inevitable as well and you will appear in them in a short amount of time all things considered. Things could go out of order too and that will be more horrific than your own death.

3) Your life could turn around at an instant at any time. One year ago today I had recently suffered a job loss, my colonial era house had been half destroyed by a 250 year old oak tree strike a few weeks earlier and (I mean this to the day and hour), my baby daughter went into spontaneous seizures that left her comatose and mostly brain dead to die 6 weeks later. We could all be dead of a nuclear war starting at any time. A version of the influenza virus of 1918 could return at any time and wipe at 100 million people or more.

4) Even trustworthy people are still guilty of looking out for their own benefit. That salesperson wants you to buy that shirt even if it looks terrible on you. Your boss might go to bat for you if their is something unjust going on but if his or her livelihood is at stake, your boss is going to bail on you. So will friends, neighbors, and most family. You have to assume that every single telemarketer and e-mail spammer is out to screw you. If you don't, you are a fool. 100% distrust of every and I mean every marketing contact should be taught in schools.

Being cynical is a core part of a healthy worldview and it irritates the crap out of me for the people that cannot see falsehoods at an instant like my Ph.D. mother). It is also bad not to have disaster plan in place including what to do with attempted violent crimes (5 attempted in my family including me up to attempted murder, armed robbery, carjacking, hostage situation and assault: none were successful because we all knew it was do or die. I turned the situation from defense to offense with my 2 armed attackers with full knowledge that I might die that moment. They went back to prison. I was fine. My father's was the worst with a 12 hour kidnapping and attempted murder and he was cynical also so he just fought back and won)

The world is incredibly evil and I don't like how sheltered most people seem to be. At the same time, I operate under a different set of assumptions and probabilities and I am very optimistic in a cynical kind of way.

[Thudlow Boink]

I found the Wikipedia entry on Cynicism interesting.

[robardin]

It seems to me that people are discussing a wide range of traits that I would not call cynicism here. Let me give some examples.

Saying "Let's leave early because I assume traffic will be bad" is pessimism, not cynicism.

Reflecting on the lack of an Ultimate Purpose To Existence In General is nihilism, not cynicism (though I would guess that most nihilists are cynics, the reverse is not necessarily true).

Cynicism is when you see somebody going through a subway car in a tattered set of Army fatigues, with one arm missing and the other holding a cup, proclaiming that he is a disabled and deeply ill veteran whose pension has been screwed up by the Government and to please help him scrape together $20 to stay at the Y "which is much safer than a homeless shelter", that you assume he is full of shit, has an arm hidden inside his shirt and is going to spend it on drugs.

Cynicism is to always be looking for the Catches In The Fine Print of Life. There are no free lunches, unless you're willing to buy.

Cynicism is assuming that real-world events are ultimately driven by motives that are concrete and not abstract and idealistic.

Cynicism means to "look at what they do, not what they say" when judging someone's actions or character.

[Bobotheoptimist]

Originally Posted by robardin

Cynicism is when you see somebody going through a subway car in a tattered set of Army fatigues, <snip>, that you assume he is full of shit, has an arm hidden inside his shirt and is going to spend it on drugs.
Cynicism is to always be looking for the Catches In The Fine Print of Life. There are no free lunches, unless you're willing to buy.
Cynicism is assuming that real-world events are ultimately driven by motives that are concrete and not abstract and idealistic.
Cynicism means to "look at what they do, not what they say" when judging someone's actions or character.

I don't understand what you're getting at.

Have you not seen a "disabled and deeply ill vet that just needs $20 bucks to get some food ("god bless")" on every street corner?
Do you honestly expect someone to buy you lunch with no catches?
Do you sign contracts without reading them because the nice man says the last few pages are just standard lawyer talk?
Can you look around at the world we live in and believe what "they" say?
I'm only a cynic when people are involved, nothing in the history of the human race has convinced me to do otherwise.
Sure, my family, pets and friends are ok, with the rest of the world I watch my wallet.

[pseudotriton ruber ruber]

Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink

I found the Wikipedia entry on Cynicism interesting.

Really? Why?

I found it to be poorly written, superficial drivel.