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  #1  
Old 06-17-2006, 02:45 PM
TheAnimal TheAnimal is offline
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Antidepressants lower testosterone and leads to more depression?

I have been wondering this for quite some time and Ive found some studies about antidepressants lowering testosterone levels. While at the same time finding studies that say that testosterone can cure depression. This would be pretty contreversial if millions of people that are taking these drugs are only hurting themselves even more.

Here are testosterone reducing studies of Antidepressants.
"Free testosterone levels were found to be subnormal in 15 of
20 patients. No other consistent laboratory value nor physical
examination finding could account for this observation. Causes for
reduced free testosterone and its effect on sexual function are
discussed with implications for future research and treatment
strategies."
http://www.priory.com/psych/sexdys.htm
http://www.mhsanctuary.com/rx/testos.htm

And here are studies about testosterone being good for depression
http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/c...full/38/3/26-b
http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/...tosterone.html
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2002/...t_test_01.html
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  #2  
Old 06-17-2006, 03:26 PM
ultrafilter ultrafilter is offline
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Do you have a factual question, or are you looking to start a debate?
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Old 06-17-2006, 04:03 PM
TheAnimal TheAnimal is offline
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a bit of both actually i just wanted to get some opinions on this
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  #4  
Old 06-17-2006, 04:47 PM
Exapno Mapcase Exapno Mapcase is offline
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First, your two anti-testosterone links are for the same Cohen study. None of your other three links are to journal articles.

And the Cohen study says:
Quote:
Antidepressant-induced sexual dysfunction (ASD) is a well recognized
complication of treatment for mood and anxiety disorders (Gitlin 1997).
So I can't even figure out what question you're asking or what you're trying to debate. Can some anti-depressants in some people display ASD side effects? Certainly. Are there treatments for this? Yes. Is testosterone involved and can this be a problem? Yes. Does this mean that the cure is worse than the disease, so to speak? Unknown. For any widely prescribed drug, there will be side effects so severe that some patients cannot stay on the drug. For these patients, different drugs, or different dosages, or alleviating drugs may offer benefit.

Other than that, I don't know what answer you're looking for.
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Old 06-17-2006, 05:08 PM
TheAnimal TheAnimal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase
First, your two anti-testosterone links are for the same Cohen study. None of your other three links are to journal articles.

And the Cohen study says:


So I can't even figure out what question you're asking or what you're trying to debate. Can some anti-depressants in some people display ASD side effects? Certainly. Are there treatments for this? Yes. Is testosterone involved and can this be a problem? Yes. Does this mean that the cure is worse than the disease, so to speak? Unknown. For any widely prescribed drug, there will be side effects so severe that some patients cannot stay on the drug. For these patients, different drugs, or different dosages, or alleviating drugs may offer benefit.

Other than that, I don't know what answer you're looking for.
Well seeing as low testosterone levels can lead to depression and antidepressants cause low testosterone levels cant these drugs actually worsen depression?
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  #6  
Old 06-17-2006, 05:20 PM
Exapno Mapcase Exapno Mapcase is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAnimal
Well seeing as low testosterone levels can lead to depression and antidepressants cause low testosterone levels cant these drugs actually worsen depression?
Maybe. But you can't overgeneralize it. That one study of 20 patients is too small to base any conclusions on. And it doesn't say how many people who take anti-depressants get ASD. It doesn't say if all the many different types of anti-depressants have equal effect. It doesn't say whether alleviating measures can work.

Remember, tens of millions of people take anti-depressants of a large number of different types, each of which work on the body in a different way. ASD is a side effect of certain anti-depressants but not of others. The root causes of depression are numerous and some are not from chemical imbalances.

You can't say anything as simple as your statement and have it apply to everyone. It's not clear if it applies to anyone. What studies have been done since 1997? What do they say? What new classes of anti-depressants have been put on the market since 1997? What else has changed?

Whenever you read any information on any disease or medication, remember that it doesn't apply to everybody equally.
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  #7  
Old 06-17-2006, 05:47 PM
Squink Squink is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase
You can't say anything as simple as your statement and have it apply to everyone. It's not clear if it applies to anyone.
That's for sure. About half of people with depression also have increased levels of serum cortisol, and when the depression eases, levels of that steroid return to normal. Since chronic cortisol administration is famously linked to depression and suicide, it'd be quite easy to hypothesize that the observed changes in testosterone are merely clinically insignificant artifacts of the disturbance in cortisol metabolism, rather than a primary agent of mood disorder.
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  #8  
Old 03-27-2013, 09:03 PM
Bigpap Bigpap is offline
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It works

I have been on a low dose of testosterone at low levels for a while and the first of Feb they raised my dose and my sever depression and anxiety started getting alot better. It was such a great feeling, I got back the loving relationship thatmy wife and I had before my mental problems arose,sex has never been better every aspect of my life got better.
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  #9  
Old 03-27-2013, 09:28 PM
deltasigma deltasigma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squink View Post
That's for sure. About half of people with depression also have increased levels of serum cortisol, and when the depression eases, levels of that steroid return to normal. Since chronic cortisol administration is famously linked to depression and suicide, it'd be quite easy to hypothesize that the observed changes in testosterone are merely clinically insignificant artifacts of the disturbance in cortisol metabolism, rather than a primary agent of mood disorder.
Yeah, given that the number of men in that table is in the single digits, it's not even statistically significant.

Not only that, there's not even a proposed mechanism that would connect interference with the serotonin reuptake mechanism (how SSRI's work) with the biochemistry of testosterone.

Last edited by deltasigma; 03-27-2013 at 09:29 PM..
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  #10  
Old 03-27-2013, 09:36 PM
deltasigma deltasigma is offline
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Oops. Just realized it's even worse that what I posted. The author is including an SNRI (venlafaxine) and another heterocyclic that's currently in a class by itself (bupropion). So I don't what the hell the author thinks he's found.
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  #11  
Old 03-27-2013, 10:11 PM
ultrafilter ultrafilter is offline
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But what's the effect of zombification on testosterone levels?
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  #12  
Old 03-27-2013, 10:45 PM
Foggy Foggy is offline
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rigor mortis?
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  #13  
Old 03-27-2013, 11:31 PM
panache45 panache45 is offline
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nm

Last edited by panache45; 03-27-2013 at 11:31 PM..
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  #14  
Old 03-28-2013, 06:28 PM
electronbee electronbee is offline
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I'd suggest looking at NIH for actual info. PubMed is a great and free resource.
You have to be really careful on studies which have a handful of people. This is similar to the "MMR vaccinations=autism". Where the paper was redacted and the guy who wrote it lost his license to practice as a doctor.

So, when you read these studies with a small sample base you need to determine if there is some ulterior motive at hand. Was it a "focus group" trying to prove a point? Is there someone trying to make a name for themselves? Or, maybe it was a med student trying to gather interest to further pursue the study with supportive funding for a large sample base?

A quick search of NIH PubMed pulled up a paper with this abstract:

Quote:
Hypogonadotropic hypogonadism is defined as the failure in production of gonadal hormones, thus resulting in lower amounts of testosterone. Depression, anxiety and decreased quality of life are the most common psychopathological conditions in young hypogonadal men. The aim of the present study was to assess the still debated relationship with testosterone levels and psychological symptoms in young male patients with congenital hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (CHH). Thirty-nine young male patients with CHH and 40 age-matched healthy males were enrolled in the present study. The impact of testosterone replacement treatment (TRT) on the patients' anxiety and depression levels, sexual function and quality of life were assessed before and after 6 months of treatment using valid and reliable scales, including the Short Form-36 (SF-36), Beck Depression Inventory (BDI), Beck Anxiety Inventory (BAI), and Arizona Sexual Experiences (ASEX). Patients with CHH had significantly higher scores for BDI, BAI, and ASEX than the control subjects at baseline (p=0.011, p=0.036, p<0.001, respectively). The ASEX and BDI scores significantly improved after the TRT (p<0.001 for both), while the improvement in the BAI score was not statistically significant (p=0.135). When compared to the control group, treatment nave hypogonadal patients had more severe symptoms of sexual dysfunction, anxiety, depression, and worse quality of life. After 6 months of TRT, we observed improvements in the above parameters, suggesting that low endogenous levels of testosterone might be related to the increased incidence of psychological symptoms.
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