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  #1  
Old 09-07-2000, 10:26 PM
Zenster Zenster is offline
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First and foremost, let me begin with the fact that I am an artist and refuse to permit the censure of any form of music or art. (We'll go into Government funding for crucifixes submerged in jars of urine later.) Before any of the inevitable objections are raised, allow me to say that I have been to a few rap concerts.

I have seen Digital Underground, Humpty Dumpty, Queen Latifah, Yellow Man and my own personal favorite, Eek A Mouse (a truly creative genius). I have also jammed with a rapper. I play a dozen different instruments and I write my own lyrics in addition to composing my own music. My music ranges from Classical and Baroque to Hard Rock and Indian Ragas. There is just something about rap that really galls the shit out of me. Maybe it was designed to, I don't know.

I maintain that rap "music" is for people incapable of nonlinear thought. The overly emphasized monotone / monologue aspect of rap is like listening to a skipping record album (Boy howdy, that dates me now, doesn't it?). Especially ironic is the fact that I find the ability of an artist to "scratch" quite fascinating. That old LP's should play such an important role in rap is almost scary in it's homage to all previous music.

Back to what I dislike about rap. An "artform" that so routinely includes misogynistic content, advocacy of violence and (I know that this is debatable) the gratuitous use of foul language falls short on redeeming qualities. I have listened to rap that contains positivistic content spoken in polysyllables and it still didn't do anything for me. I'm just tired of having to listen to someone's music selection solely because they have chosen to install a large scale public address system in their car. I have had the pleasure to see a person's car slowly vibrate itself apart because of their (extra annoying) sub-woofer output.

One obscure example of this problem involves a strange comparison between Christian fundamentalist airplay and rap. Notice the almost complete lack of instrumental music in either format? What is the problem with some "pure" music being played? Is there some sort of difficulty in having performance time devoted strictly to instrumental passages? (What is very odd is the near complete absence of "scratched" vocal content in rap.) The strident nature of the content in both Christian and rap music really nauseates me. It betrays some sort of insecurity in their own belief. Be it musical or religious.

I welcome the comments of rappers that are not violent. Please submit your favorite lyrics to this venue. If what you have to say strikes our audience, you will receive feedback. To those who find rap offensive, feel free to join this tirade in a well balanced fashion.
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  #2  
Old 09-07-2000, 10:29 PM
Lynn Bodoni Lynn Bodoni is offline
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Copyright, again

Please do NOT submit the whole of copyrighted material. For instance, it's all right to quote a couple of lines from a song, but not the whole song, unless you happen to hold copyright to that song.

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  #3  
Old 09-07-2000, 10:51 PM
Satan Satan is offline
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Rap is like any other forms of music. Some rap artists show creativity, some do not. Some rap is good, most of it is not. You can easily say the same thing about country, metal, or alternative-gothic-industrial-death-emo-core even.
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  #4  
Old 09-07-2000, 11:08 PM
Homer Homer is offline
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I've noticed a huge depression in quality rap since No Limit, Cash Money, and the like all 'broke out.' It now seems that anyone who can speak relatively quickly and can say "yeaaah, nigguh" every few lines is a certified, bon-a-fied rapper. Don't get me wrong, I love rap, GOOD rap, that is. Puffy/B.I.G/Mase were alright, Bone kicks ass (until their latest, that is), NWA rocks, there's alot of good rappers out there, but every since fucking Master P, everyone's cousin is putting out a CD. And you can always tells the ones that suck, too. They have the curved gold lettering for the 'artist's' name, with a flare effect, and the album title is always done in diamond-studded gold lettering at the bottom. The 'artist' is always sitting on a throne or leaning against a car, with his fist thrust towards the fish-eye camera lens, showing off a huge watch, or brass knuckle, or gold and diamond ring. Sometimes, it's a closeup of the 'artist' in black sunglasses, grinning, with gold plated teeth spelling out his name. On the back, the label is prominently displayed in a neck chain symbol with gold and diamonds, and to the right is the list of tracks, with half the tracks *'d out because of curse words in the title.

That, sir, is the mark of a crappy rap CD.

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Old 09-07-2000, 11:39 PM
FarTreker FarTreker is offline
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Rap: (noun): smart, sharp impact of brief duration and moderated force. (Rap, rap, rapping on my door.)

Rap: (noun) Discussion. Short for rapport. Circa 1960s.

Reason for being so disliked by certain percentages of the general population:

1. Basic subject matter mostly dealing with one or any combination of the following:
A. Being put down by 'da man'
B. Extolling abject poverty
C. Extolling racism
D. Aggrandizing gang membership
E. Glorifying violence
F. Glorifying killing
G. Lauding the abuse of women (bitches)
H. Embracing drug abuse and sales
I. Eulogizing prison life
J. Promoting poverty ravaged lifestyles
K. Promoting antisocial behavior
L. Simple, annoying, repetition 'poetry' verse
M. Unimaginative, basic 'jungle' beat.
N. Insistence, in most cases, of 'singing' in a 'homey'/ghetto form of slang and word distortion.
O. Insistence on dressing and acting ghetto 'tough.'

In short: being a general annoyance essentially created to expound on racism and hatred ranging from self to racial despisal.

Hopefully, as someone once whispered to some conqueror sometime in the past, 'this too, shall pass.'

And I used to think that real country and western music of the old type was bad! It was better than this rap crap.
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  #6  
Old 09-07-2000, 11:43 PM
FarTreker FarTreker is offline
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Crap! I forgot to add:

Rap: A form of music. Originating in American ghettos consisting of a basic, simple, heavy bass beat, loose poetry of basic rhyme and primitive style music mix.
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  #7  
Old 09-08-2000, 12:06 AM
Lazarus7 Lazarus7 is offline
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I enjoy the simple beats and lyrics of rap music. The music is easy to remember (which makes it stick in your brain), has lots of energy, is typical aggressive (which allows me to work out some of that inner aggression which I have been 'saving'(not repressing), in a positive way) and causes my walls to thump!
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  #8  
Old 09-08-2000, 01:08 AM
Talkinsquirrel Talkinsquirrel is offline
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Why do I like rap?

Cuz you can't booty dance to Beethoven's 5th symphony
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  #9  
Old 09-08-2000, 01:18 AM
samclem samclem is offline
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The OP is
Quote:
Why Is Rap So Annoying?
As the kids who heard Frank Sinatra in his first year must have told their parents.....Oh, Dad! Puulleeze!
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  #10  
Old 09-08-2000, 02:13 AM
capacitor capacitor is offline
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There was a time when rap was used as a unifying positive force in music. It was to provide an eloquent way for youngsters to get out of the ghetto, by becoming positive rap stars such as LL cool J and Wil Smith. It was also used as a call for protest, with such stars as Public Enemy leading that charge. Then the suburban rappers came in, with their exaggerated stories of drug dealing, organized crime and street violence. The record companies decided to squeeze out most of everything positive in rap, in favor of the gangsta rap. It reached its nadir with the assasinations of Biggie Smalls and Tupac, coupled with the advent of mediocre 'stars' such as Master P, who was so bad in promoting hip-hop for Time Warner's WCW Wrestling that it got those fans to listen to country again. A group of wrestlers who were to play the pro-country part came up with a minor country hit 'Rap is Crap'.

Oh by the way there are instumental masterpieces in hip-hop. Most famous one is 'Terminator X Speaks With his Hands', done by the DJ of Public Enemy.
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Old 09-08-2000, 02:35 AM
Lexicon Lexicon is offline
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Satan has a point, in that most rap sucks, but some is really good. Granted, it's totally subjective, but I think that some rap displays genuine talent.

Some of these guys can just, well, for lack of a better term, flow.
L.L. Cool J can bust rhymes like nobody's business, and so can Wil Smith. Snoop Dogg and Dr. Dre are really good, and Tupac was definitely good.
There are some people who can't really rap that well, but they have a voice that sounds cool, like BIG, Fred Durst, and ICP.

In any case, it's varying degrees of entertainment. Many of theses artists don't have a poignant message, but so what? Sometimes it's nice to be pandered to.

The annoying aspect of this type of music that I can agree with many people on is the idea that everyone likes rap. Why people who enjoy listening to rap feel the need to broadcast their choice of music to a 10 mile radius I have no idea.

There was a thread awhile back in which we talked about this very thing. Everyone except GaWd said that they hated it when they had to listen to some assholes stereo from across three lanes of traffic.

The bottom line is that I don't think rap in and of itself is annoying, it's that it has lately been shoved down our throats. I garuantee that if everyone started blaring Mozart out of too-loud car stereos all the time it would get old too.

Too much of anything eventually sucks.
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  #12  
Old 09-08-2000, 02:45 AM
Lazarus7 Lazarus7 is offline
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As to the OP, I think I better question might be, why is country music so whiny and irritating?
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  #13  
Old 09-08-2000, 02:50 AM
SPOOFE SPOOFE is offline
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It's really simple... there's "Rap", which is entertaining, and then there's "Gangsta Rap", which deals almost exclusively with fucking your bitch and busting in a cap in a cops' ass (read: it sucks).
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  #14  
Old 09-08-2000, 07:40 AM
Mockingbird Mockingbird is offline
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What is often ignored in rap are the female artists.

Salt-n-Pepa and Queen Latifah are amazing rap artists
who put forth complex and intelligent messages of
empowerment in their work. Well past the simplistic
messages in Push It, Salt-n-Pepa released the song Expression that extolled the virtues of tolerance.
In her hit Ladies First, Queen Latifah had a strong feminist message. Not all rap is misogynstic crap. But a lot of the stuff released lately is.
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  #15  
Old 09-08-2000, 07:58 AM
FairyChatMom FairyChatMom is offline
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Speaking only for myself, I've ALWAYS hated when lyrics were spoken rather than sung - Mike Douglas doing "The Men in my Little Girl's Life" was the first one that came to mind, but I know there are more - I just blocked them all out. I see rap as a variation on that theme. Of course, the booming bass and the contrived rhymes don't appeal to me either.
Dare I confess that I listen to the local muzak-type station...? Well, it's just something in the background at work - I can't think if I'm actually listening to the radio.

Who am I kidding - I just think rap sucks!
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  #16  
Old 09-08-2000, 08:11 AM
El_Kabong El_Kabong is offline
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It's repetitive, it's unsubtle, it's a threat to society...

It's rock in the late '50's and early '60's. Oh, wait, this is supposed to be about rap.

Don't listen much myself, mainly because I don't like music with corny lyrics, and even most the better rappers have such a limited vocabulary and range of subject matter that any one of their pieces tells all one needs to know about them. One thing rap doesn't seem to share with musical trends of the past, however, is the glorification of extreme violence as a valid response to any display of 'disrespect'. That's callow youth talking, and I find it boring and offensive.

Undeniably, some rappers have considerable talent and a flair for the adventurous, but just as back in the '60's, where for every band like the Beatles there were ten like Herman's Hermits, there's a lot of dreck to wade through. Plus, the images of violence and misogyny that attend much of the music completely negate, for me, the work of otherwise highly talented individuals (hands up, Eminem!)

Like a lot of popular music, rap works best for me when the artist is clearly trying to do something different with the form, or when hip-hop elements are successfully incorporated into other forms (Beck and Massive Attack come to mind).

Hey, thanks for the opportunity to spill on this subject.
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  #17  
Old 09-08-2000, 10:21 AM
Balduran Balduran is offline
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The glorification of violence is what mainly gets to me. Tupac t-shirts even became an unofficial uniform for the rebels in Sierra Leone
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  #18  
Old 09-08-2000, 10:45 AM
Satan Satan is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by SPOOFE Bo Diddly

It's really simple... there's "Rap", which is entertaining, and then there's "Gangsta Rap", which deals almost exclusively with fucking your bitch and busting in a cap in a cops' ass (read: it sucks).
Generalizations are so often wrong.

Now then, I shan't deny that a lot of gangsta rap is shock for shock's sake (not unlike Marilyn Manson, IMO, but I digress).

However, the origins of the movement showed a world that did not want to see the problems of the inner cities. If you were not quick to judge a whole genre, you would know that many of the things which CNN finally saw in LA race relations - police brutality, angry young black people ready to boil over because of it - was spelled out several YEARS in advance of the actual carnage.

They rapped about fucking your bitch because of bravado, but they wanted to bust a cap in a cops' ass because of what the cop did.

Now, I am not gonna get into the whole LA Riots debate here in terms of what motivated a lot of the people to go ape-shit.

All I'm saying is that NWA and others saw what was happening in their community YEARS before you and I did, and maybe if we weren't so quick to write them off as you did, we might have been able to do something about it before it escalated.
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  #19  
Old 09-08-2000, 10:58 AM
Muskoka9 Muskoka9 is offline
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Why people who enjoy listening to rap feel the need to broadcast their choice of music to a 10 mile radius I have no idea.
That's easy. Generally, it is hard-core, gangster rap that is pounding from the $3,000 stereo system in the $2,000 Honda Civic. The rappers in those songs are "bad-asses", hence, since said person is blaring this song he is a "bad-ass". Watch out and clear a path for him, and watch his bitches, I mean women, flock to him because he is such a "bad-ass"...
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  #20  
Old 09-08-2000, 11:02 AM
zwaldd zwaldd is offline
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zenster, you are a musician and rap is not for musicians. there is definitely a technical aspect to rap, but it sure ain't instrumental. i've played guitar in several bands over the years and have always sought accomplished, experienced musicians and vocalists with good range and an understanding of harmony. i can't imagine that rappers look for people like that when putting together an album. rap seems less about actual music and more about style. instead of interesting chord progressions and melodies, it's about cutting edge pants and attitudes. rap is to music what performance art is to art. sure, anyone can make a sound and call it music, but i'd have to hear a rapper sing a melody or harmonize on key before i'd call him a singer. or a scratcher play a song on an instrument before i'd call him a musician.
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Old 09-08-2000, 11:20 AM
TracyMarie TracyMarie is offline
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But rap isn't just "gangsta" or "black angst," is it? Beck raps; Madonna raps (remember Vogue?). Remember that song, "He's going the distance"? That would be considered rap, no? And there was a song in the 80's . . . let's see, who was the group . . . it went: "You want it all but you can't have it. It's in your fist, but you can't grab it." That was a rap song, but it combined rock and rap.

My point is that rap can be done well, and black groups aren't the only ones singing it. Like all artistic genre's, we must put up with the bad if we want to enjoy the good.

Peace,
Tracy
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  #22  
Old 09-08-2000, 12:19 PM
oldscratch oldscratch is offline
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People who don't like rap or don't think it's intelli9gent haven't listened to Kool Keith. That shit is great. Plus the fact that he doesn't use much samples but produces all the music (sometimes with others). You get this great atmospheric spacy tracks with funny lyrics. Like:

Lyrics deleted by Alphagene

none of these are whole songs. Only about a quarter to an eight of the actual song.

Unfortunately, fair use of copyrighted material is generally less than one-tenth of the original. I hate to be a prick about this stuff but we do live in a Litigious Society. -- Alphagene


[Edited by Alphagene on 09-10-2000 at 01:37 PM]
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  #23  
Old 09-08-2000, 01:57 PM
Necros Necros is offline
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Satan said:
Quote:
You can easily say the same thing about country, metal, or alternative-gothic-industrial-death-emo-core even.
Schweet! This is exactly what I've been looking for. Where can I get me some?

Lexicon said:
Quote:
Everyone except GaWd said that they hated it when they had to listen to some assholes stereo from across three lanes of traffic
I think this was more about GaWd and I defending ourselves for blasting the music that everyone else hates.
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  #24  
Old 09-08-2000, 02:25 PM
Homer Homer is offline
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I'm the (hip de hip?) the ladies pimp
the women fight for my delight
cuz I'm the grandmaster with the master plan
and I rock the house all across the land

Words to live by.

--Tim
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  #25  
Old 09-08-2000, 03:48 PM
ReservoirDog ReservoirDog is offline
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Okay, one down. Coming soon:

Why Does Yodeling Suck Ass?
Why Is Blues Music So Boring?
Jazz: What's The Point Anymore?
Why Classic Rock Should Never Be Played Again
Who Really Listens To This "Classical" Bullshit?
Why Country Music Singers Need To Die
Is Punk Rock Good Enough To Be Called Music?
Why Is Gospel Music Just A Bunch Of Hooey?
Why Heavy Metal Bites The Big One

I could go on all day...
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  #26  
Old 09-08-2000, 04:12 PM
Zenster Zenster is offline
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We're off to a good start.

I like this. Cogent points have been made in both directions. White America would have done well to recognize the profound angst contained in early rap. Sadly, that important message might have been better received if it had not been couched in such violent terms. The routine subscription of so many rappers to conspicuous consumption is yet another reason that they are so easy to dismiss. I also heartily agree that most other music styles also have a similar "dreck factor". Shock rockers like Marylin Manson and the Glamour Rock bands are every bit as contrived as many of these rappers.

Has anyone here ever seen Eek A Mouse? The only way I have ever been able to describe him is as follows:

"Imagine a speaking part for Robert Shields dressed as a Black Carribbean pirate singing Gregorian chants in the voice of Porky Pig dosing on PCP."

And I mean this in a GOOD way. Eek A Mouse is one of the most creative and brilliant individuals that I have ever come across. His outrageous costuming is not any sort of ostentatious display but instead is a genuinely complimentry component of his performance. His content is thoughtful and interesting (what parts I have been able to understand).

One thing that seems ultra contrived is the bass line patterns in rap. These passages are frequently not even produced on a true bass instrument but are synthesized solely for blasting out of a subwoofer at seismic amplitudes. I realize that this might be conducive to dancing, but as far as being accepted as true music, fat chance.

Long ago I mused on the thought that I was sure no generation would ever be able to piss off a preceding one so well as we did with rock music. I now stand corrected with the advent of rap.

"Rap is music for people who can't sing"

PS: Dear moderator, thank you for the admonition about posting copyrighted material in anything but excerpted form.
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  #27  
Old 09-08-2000, 04:36 PM
tradesilicon tradesilicon is offline
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Zenster, just noticed your thread, I started one here that should interest you. Amatuer artist, but shows potential.

Sili
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  #28  
Old 09-08-2000, 05:14 PM
Stylus Stylus is offline
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First you have to make a distinction between rap and hip-hop. Most (~90%) of today's radio played rap is CRAP. I'm still having a very difficult time of why these rappers (I can't even begin to give them the distinction of MC) are still selling records. Well I know why, but that's a whole nother thread. The lyrics are just not poetic at all, and the delivery (flow) is even worse off. Every time I flip on some channel that plays videos, I am bombarded by these whack ass rappers that think they have skills because they have some guy that can market and promote a record, on their side ie. Cash Money Millionares, No Limit, Bad Boy (although I love Biggie Smalls. There have only been a handful of MCs that could flow like him).

Then you have hip-hop. That basic base line. What we call "That head nod shit". Built on top of the beat is the MC. Flowing from the MC are his/her lyrics. Back in the day, an MC would usually only speak of a few things: 1) the place to be, 2) who you are, 3) what you got, or 4) about a sucker MC (aka those punk ass rappers you hear on the radio and blarring from those prepubescent boy's cars). Who am I taking about? The Heiroglyphics, Jurrasic 5, Rakim, KRS one, Grandmaster Flash (dj), Kool Herc (dj), RUN DMC, De la Soul, PE, Professor Griff, Biggie Smalls (without that punk Puffy), Tribe Called Quest, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Big Daddy Kane, Just Ice, Def Jeff, Special Ed, Queen Latifah, MC Lyte, SnP, Guru and dj Premiere, I could go on, but I think you can see that there is quality hip-hop out there. You'll have to dig for most of it, but it's there. All of the above, and more I didn't mention, have that combination of beats and rhymes that is truly amazing...poetry over beats. Bottom line though: It's music. You either get it and like it, or you don't!

I read a couple of posts from people that think turntablists are not musicians. I'd have to wholeheartedly disagree with you on that point. Have you ever seen a turntablist in action? Better yet, have you ever seen a DJ battle? There are some djs that just play samples behind an MC, and then there are turntablists that hold their own, even when the MC is not present (Jurrasic 5). These are the djs (turntablists) that won't fit your "not musicians" category. A few examples would be: Qbert, Shortcut, Apollo, Mix Master Mike all from the Invisible Skratch Picklz, Roc Raida and the other X-men, A-Trak, 5th Platoon, Babu, Rhettmatic, Cut Chemist, again, the list is too long. Their music says enough, but when you have the privlege to see them perform in person, even if you truly didn't like the music, you would still be amazed at how damned fast their hands move! And they don't just "scratch". They also beat juggle (deconstructing an instrumental into its basic components ie. snare, bass, hi hat and playing each separate piece to create a new piece).Mind you the turntablist is manipulating two turnatbles and a mixer while beat juggling or scracthing. And there are some turntablists that form groups of up to six people that can manipulate 12 turntables at the same time to create a mosaic of sound! Check the web for samples, They're there. I can't give you any URLs because I just buy the vinyl instead.

This is a very superficial presentation because I have no way of sharing the actual music with you. But the point I wanted to get across is there is good quality hip-hop out there. Don't be fooled by those marketing "geniuses" that are trying to shove SHIT down your throats with the rap label.
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  #29  
Old 09-08-2000, 05:28 PM
Crown Prince of Irony Crown Prince of Irony is offline
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As far as I'm concerned, when Public Enemy slipped out of public interest, rap went into a tailspin of novelty acts, East - West coast bullshit, and crappy funk-metal-rap fusion, which frankly, should have ended with Faith No More (die, Mike Patton, why don't you just die?).

Public Enemy had a vital message, whether you agreed with them or not, and that was what rap was born to deliver.

Maybe I'm dating myself here, but do you remember when you first heard SugarHill Gang, or Slick Rick, way back in the day? I was a little white kid growing up in rural Northern Cali, so it was about '81 or '82 before I first heard it. It definitely wasn't Styx, or Kenny Rogers. This was the only music I've ever heard that was truly new and original. Before I knew it, I'd bought parachute pants and started breakdancing. Badly, I might add.

One day, rap will return to its raw, vital roots, and we'll be rid of the Master PDMXJay-Z clones, and white boyz like *&$%@nSync throwing down lameass dubs to supplant their lamer-ass singing. Yeah, right. But one can dream...
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Old 09-08-2000, 05:31 PM
Dogzilla Dogzilla is offline
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A couple random thoughts on Rap

"The only good rapper is one that's dead... on it." -- Prince

Prince makes a good point in his song "Dead on It" from his "Black" album. He points out that many rappers are simply tone deaf and that it doesn't take much musical talent to rhyme to the beat. However, the fact that there are a few talented musicians in the Rap Genre is acknowledged in that song. The same thing could be said about so-called artists in any other genre. I point to the Spice Girls as only one example. (Blech!)

"Turning up the bass on a bad song does not make the music any better." -- Dogzilla

My issue with rap is not the poor quality of the "music" -- but the fact that I must be subjected to the bass line from three blocks away. I now have a theory on this behavior (put at $10K stereo in a $5K car...):

I was hanging out in my living room with a homie.... one of my African-American friends. Somebody "bumped" by my house. My friend darn near broke his neck to look out my window and see who it was... maybe it was one of his boys!

My theory is that the individuals who enjoy destroying their hearing in vehicles are exhibiting a behavior akin to my Dogzilla pissing in corners. They're just marking their territory and announcing: who they are, where they are, if the territory they're in is theirs or not. None of this has ANYTHING to do with the music... I think many people who enjoy the bumpin' bass probably don't even like the music much either... they just know it irritates the shit of of some of we white folk.

Perhaps that should be Wee White Folk...
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  #31  
Old 09-08-2000, 05:41 PM
OpalCat OpalCat is offline
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I don't care for rap. It has nothing to do with the lyrics or the attitudes... it's just the way rap sounds. I don't care for most country music either, for the same reason. The few country songs I like sound more like rock than country.

I don't get into the spoken lyric thing... I don't like the cadence of rap... I don't like speech mannerisms in rap.... the way the words are emphasised... I don't like the beat... I don't like the instrumentation...

The ONLY rap songs I've ever liked are:
Paul Revere (not sure why)
Funky Cold Medina (it's just funny, I still don't like the way it sounds but I'll listen to it to laugh)
Baby Got Back (again, musically I think it's lame as hell, but it makes me laugh so I'll listen to it)

If you like rap, great for you. Have fun. I don't like it. This doesn't make me a racist or an asshole, it's just not something I like.
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  #32  
Old 09-08-2000, 06:00 PM
BillyBoy BillyBoy is offline
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Quote:
which frankly, should have ended with Faith No More (die, Mike Patton, why don't you just die?).
Hold up a sec...

Mike Patton is actually one of the more talented and versatile singers out there (as far as hard rock bands go, at least). Go beyond the unfortunate foray into rap that Mikey took on the tune "Epic" (the song that everyone knows from Faith No More) and look at his other stuff (the other Faith No More albums as well as his other band, Mr. Bungle, which has moments of sheer musical genius).

I do agree, their attempt at rap was something that shouldn't have happened. Ever.

Has anyone ever listened to the soundtrack to the movie "Judgment Night"? Each song is a collaborative effort between a rap group and a hard rock sort o' group. I'm not a big fan of the rap music, but I truly enjoyed some of these songs.
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  #33  
Old 09-08-2000, 06:28 PM
red_dragon60 red_dragon60 is offline
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I be da mixmasta D
Kickin it wit ma G's
I be whack
smack
brik-a-brack
chillin in ma ride
kick back glide
I am a cracka
smacka
bitch whacka
I be posin'
chosin
choosin what goes in
rob a store
not a chore
get some mo'
wit my bitches
take out my snitches
rip some stiches
not fo real
I'm not the real deal
I just gotta feel
like I'm somethin' that I'm not
brain rot
chillin wit mom
in da home
and I'm still flitry
even though I'm thirty


Wow. I can mock rap pretty good. Yup, I am a cracker. I'm only 15 though.
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  #34  
Old 09-08-2000, 06:30 PM
oldscratch oldscratch is offline
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You can mock bad rap pretty well. Of course I can mock just about any poor example of a musicall genre pretty well.
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  #35  
Old 09-08-2000, 07:58 PM
Zenster Zenster is offline
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Read The OP Carefully Stylus

Quote from my OP.

"Especially ironic is the fact that I find the ability of an artist to "scratch" quite fascinating. That old LP's should play such an important role in rap is almost scary in it's homage to all previous music."

I am actually complimenting the "scratchers" in my post. If you are willing to call an Echoplex an instrument, then maybe a turntable is as well. Hard to make a call on that one. If you want to email me some of the instrumental scratching that you are referring to, please do. I am always open to new artforms.

It is heartening to see that many rap fans are also fed up with the extreme low quality of performance currently dominating the market. I'm glad to see that loyalty to quality supercedes any loyalty to a given genre.

As a sidebar to this discussion, I find it continually ironic that so many black people are offended by the word nigger (as I am), yet do not protest its almost continuous use in rap. My own take is that niggers come in ALL colors and white niggers are some of the worst. Feel free to flame this statement if you need to, but I stand by it.
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  #36  
Old 09-08-2000, 08:49 PM
Homer Homer is offline
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In the immortal words of Chris Rock, "I love black people, but man oh man, do I hate niggers."

This shows that even some black persons themselves make a distinction between 'black people' and niggers. I truly disprove of the use of the word to refer to black people in general, but I do see Chris's point as to the distinction. And yes, they do come in a shade of white, but we usually call them "white trash," using Chris's distinction that he sets up. Listen to his bit about it if you don't understand what I mean.

--Tim
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  #37  
Old 09-08-2000, 09:37 PM
GaWd GaWd is offline
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Quote:
Why people who enjoy listening to rap feel the need to broadcast their choice of music to a 10 mile radius I have no idea.

There was a thread awhile back in which we talked about this very thing. Everyone except GaWd said that they hated it when they had to listen to some assholes stereo from across three lanes of traffic.
Hey Lex...Cry me a fuckin river.

Most Rap sucks, some kicks ass, and the rest of it is ignorable.

-Sam
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  #38  
Old 09-08-2000, 10:10 PM
dewt dewt is offline
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I personally think rap is still in it's infancy. I do find a lot of it quite annoying, but there is a growing number of artists that are taking the idea and running with it.

Since this is a pit thread, I'd like to add that it'd be nice to lash Eminem and Marilyn Manson together, cover them in fire-ants, push em down the stairs then throw them in a big fucking BBQ Pit. Then we could cover them with a house blend of creamy chicken shit. Then we can get some big sticks and go looking for the fuckheads looking to take their place.

: wipes brow, stomps off :
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  #39  
Old 09-08-2000, 10:16 PM
dewt dewt is offline
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Oh, and I don't give a flying fuck what other people listen to in their cars. Nor at what volume.

In fact I get actual amusement out of watching the music blaster in his/her own little world and the facial expressions of other drivers and pedestrians. Ok, so it's not amusement like going snowboarding or winning a lotto or anything like that, but hey, it's better than staring at a red light.
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  #40  
Old 09-08-2000, 10:18 PM
Zenster Zenster is offline
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Squirt!!!

Ooooh Dewt, what a stud! I'll bring the secret sauce.

All the best.

Chris
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  #41  
Old 09-08-2000, 10:19 PM
SPOOFE SPOOFE is offline
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Satan...

Quote:
They rapped about fucking your bitch because of bravado, but they wanted to bust a cap in a cops' ass because of what the cop did.
My apologies, I was too vague. I wasn't referring so much to the subject matter as I was referring to how some rap artists don't have a very diverse base of themes to their music... that is, they stick with a single message, and keep running it into the ground. With any musical medium, with any subject matter, there comes a point where one would think that they can find something else to say. It's for this same reason I'm not a big fan of country or punk music, either.
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  #42  
Old 09-08-2000, 10:37 PM
Homer Homer is offline
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Since I am driz nunk, I need to respond to stylus.

Stylus, the reason that this shit sells is the white boys with too much money driving lowered hondas who want to look like they're bad ass. They hear the bass, see the guy is black, and *BOOM* they buy it and it's cool. Who cares if it's good? It's cool because they're white and the rapper is black. That's why Best Buy and Sam Goody sell the fuck out of this worthless shit. See my first post in this thread. That will allow you to separate the wheat from the chaff.

--Tim
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  #43  
Old 09-08-2000, 10:50 PM
Amok Amok is offline
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A bit off topic, but...

Quote:
Stylus wrote:
Back in the day, an MC would usually only speak of a few things: 1) the place to be, 2) who you are, 3) what you got, or 4) about a sucker MC
I know this is paraphrased from a song, and one I've heard relatively recently, but I can't think of what it is, and it's driving me crazy. Any help?
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  #44  
Old 09-09-2000, 01:42 AM
capacitor capacitor is offline
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Lauryn Hill the rapper of Fugees (Refugee Camp) is also a pretty good singer. She did win several Grammys reflecting her wide and solid range of expression.

Here is generally how the first part of a bragging rap go:

This is where I begin: the top of the page
Where I tell my fans not to rush the stage
Here I say that I'm taking over the mike
And say that I going to rock the party unlike
A sucker MC. Then I tell them my name
I tell them my game and that any sucker I will maim
Now I claim that I am taking over the charts,
Getting paid, getting laid and landing acting parts.

Yes, it is deliberately generic.
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  #45  
Old 09-09-2000, 02:16 AM
Lexicon Lexicon is offline
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Hey GaWd,
Why don't I break some of your ribs instead, you fuckin' piss ant.
Still trying to de-fossilize your dick?
If I ever go to Cali, I'll be sure to pour sugar in your gas tank, and kill your dog and stuff it in the fuckin' mailbox...

beefy-ass.




p.s.- just kidding.
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  #46  
Old 09-09-2000, 04:51 PM
Stylus Stylus is offline
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Zenster, I could see from your OP that you were giving props to some of the djs and turntablists out there. My comment, about turntablists actually being musicians, came from zwaldd's post. He said he's played guitar in bands before, and knows that most rappers and their music is not "real music". I just wanted to end that generalization by mentioning the tablists and the music they created. It's just amazing to see someone with the ability to chop bits and pieces of an instrumental or vocal samples, into a million more pieces and put it all together in a way that still posseses rhythm and creativity. I wish I could give you some of my samples, but I don't have the equipment nor the knowledge of how to set that up. You can go to a search engine and search under turntablism though. Then check out some of the truntablists I mentioned in my post.
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  #47  
Old 09-09-2000, 09:23 PM
Zenster Zenster is offline
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Are Turntable Artists Musicians?

Stylus, zwaldd, please weigh in on this one along with everyone else. I have had to think about this one carefully. The turntable is not a musical instrument so much as it is an electronic instrument (as in the sense of a laboratory or analytical instrument).

I know that this seems to be splitting hairs, but the turntablist is not technically CREATING the music, just as the turntable does not originate the musical tones (like a musical instrument) that it, instead, reproduces. So, the turntablist is only manipulating pre-existing data, as a scientist might read data from a lab instrument and print it out to create a chart. The samples being produced might be rich in information, but they are not music in and of itself.

That said, the immediate title that I will grant an accomplished turntablist it that of "Arranger". Yes, this is splitting hairs, but if you have ever arranged music, you know that it is an art in and of itself. It's just that the scratcher is not going through the agonies that the original artist had to endure to produce that precise tone sequence. The scratcher has the luxury of taking someone else's work and excerpting it (oh boy, this is close to a Napster debate, all of a sudden). To actually execute music in real time is a demanding skill and differs from the ability to sample it.

Still, I am still VERY interested in hearing some of the instrumental scratchings that you chaps are talking about. Could be a lot of fun, and I mean it.

Rap is for people incapable of nonlinear thought.
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  #48  
Old 09-09-2000, 10:03 PM
dewt dewt is offline
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zenster... that special secret sauce... could it possibly smell worse than my grandma's super creamy chicken shit sauce? She had a lot of chickens...

I'd classify an arranger as a musician. Also a scratcher. I simply classify someone who makes music a musician. Mind you, there are many distinct classes of musician, and so many ways of looking at it. I know guys that could out-play Yngwie Malmstein (sp?) but couldn't write, much less arrange a song if their life depended on it.

That being said, I would like to make it perfectly clear that I have the utmost respect for musicians who have mastered an actual musical instrument. Conversely, I laugh at, sneer at and generaly dis record-scratching imbeciles that run one looped sample over an entire song and spend the whole time engaged in arrogant self promotion.
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  #49  
Old 09-09-2000, 10:11 PM
dewt dewt is offline
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Re: Are Turntable Artists Musicians?

Quote:
Originally posted by Zenster
Rap is for people incapable of nonlinear thought.
After rereading this 3-4 times, I came to the conclusion that I disagree. I was exposed to a wide variety of rap over the summer and I found that as the style of music is picking up influences from other styles of music, the artists are starting to 'play' with the beat a little more, pushing the limits.

As a music listener, I've always liked to have some rap in my eclectic collection. As a musician, I've lately started to have some respect for the rap genre.
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god is no where
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how easy was that?
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  #50  
Old 09-09-2000, 11:30 PM
capacitor capacitor is offline
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About the DJ: he can actually make or break a rapper. Vanilla Ice can't get over to this day because, besides his self-inficted wounds, people realized that his DJ butchered "Under Pressure" by Queen and David Bowie, for the song "Ice Ice Baby". The Dust Brothers, though not technically DJs, enhanced Beck's and others' musical ideas to the hilt. Eric B was nominated for president by the great rapper Rakim, for good reason. Imagine Chuck D and Flavor Flav rapping about revolution without Terminator X assasinating with his turntable anybody who doubt that their messages are not for real. And where would Wil Smith be without his DJ Jazzy Jeff? Oh, he might still be a star, but it would have taken him much longer.
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