How to tell if someone was in the Special Forces

[sweeteviljesus]

I have an acquaintence who claims to have been in the Special Forces. He was definitely in the Army, but he is such a Walter Mitty type, I have great difficulty believing he was in SF. He told me his MOS was 18Z and I know that he was in the service in the early to mid-eighties. Is there some way to know, like a coin or something? I was sitting with him one time when he told someone that the drum on a Thompson submachinegun held 450 rounds.

Just curious,
Rob

[Szlater]

Ask him what colour the boathouse is at Hereford.

[DxZero]

Originally Posted by Szlater

Ask him what colour the boathouse is at Hereford.

Nicely done.

[Bobotheoptimist]

If they tell you about it, they didn't do it.

Challenge coins do exist, but I wouldn't count on being able to identify someone from that. They, or close replicas, are available online, just like medals and insignia are. Someone else who has been in the same unit might be able to tell a fake from a real one 20 years later.

There might be some way to ask the Army. There was that big stink about Wedding Crashers and people faking service experience, don't know if anything ever came of that.

Not much help, I'm afraid.

[Lemur866]

Rule of thumb, if he's bragging about how he was in Special Forces, he wasn't in Special Forces.

[redtail23]

Ditto. People who have really been in special ops units don't talk about it.

[Smitty]

You need his full name, social security number, dates of service, and unit. You can fill out this form and send it here:

National Personnel Records
(Navy/Army/Airforce) Military Personnel Records
9700 Page Blvd.
St. Louis, MO 63132

This will tell you everything about his service record. You must say that you are requesting this information under the Freedom of Information Act or they will not respond.

[drachillix]

Originally Posted by Smitty

This will tell you everything about his service record. You must say that you are requesting this information under the Freedom of Information Act or they will not respond.

Also something to note, I have seen it said in several places that although the detail of individual missions are not available to the public, that there are no "secret special ops" types that do not exist on the books, from reading a few fake vets sites this seems to be a favorite story.

Since even though my records clearly state I was a cook on a battleship, I am actually a seal team commander.



FTR Drachillix has never served in the millitary...

[askeptic]

How old is your friend? 18Z would indicate that he was the Operations NCO of an ODA (Operations Detachment Alpha) a twelve man team. Ask him if he knows what riser grease is.

[ExTank]

Pretty much what everyone else said: if they're talking about it, they probably didn't do it.

True story: after the cease-fire in GW 1, large chunks of the U.S. Military was cycling though Khobar Towers on their way back stateside. At one of the fast-food concession stands/picnic areas (the mess hall food was atrocioius at that time), I overheard a buncha wind dummies doing the whole HOORAH! WE WERE FIRST! thing. I listened until I couldn't stand it any longer and politely corrected them that the 1st Cav was the first conventional military ground forces into Iraq, but that we were beat by a long shot by all the various snake eaters, who wre probably in Iraq long before the air war kicked off.

Young wind dummies huffed and puffed, then went away.

Older guy, maybe a soldier, maybe not (his uniform had no rank insignia, nor unit patches) stopped by on the way out and simply said, "Thanks."

I'm pretty sure he was a snake eater.

[DrFidelius]

Didn't call them SEALs in my day. We were UDT -- Underwater Demolition Teams. I could tell you stories of training those Lien Doc Nguoi Nhia, but I won't.

[Baron Greenback]

I know a guy (I'll call him J) who was likely in the SAS. He's about 70 years old and comes into my local a couple of times a week - always drinks a couple of straight vodkas and goes on his way. J is, frankly, a hugely impressive man. Quiet, intelligent, and even now that he is not a young man, he exudes an aura of contained power, certainly sufficient to make him the last person that anybody would try to mess with. He runs a small one man business (in no way related to matters martial!), but I won't say what it is as there are only a handful in the UK, and only one in Scotland - suffice to say it involves extremely intricate wood craftsmanship.

Anyway, local scuttlebutt has it that J was in the SAS*, but for the fifteen or so years that I've known him, he's never said a word about his military service - save once. We were talking about Vietnam war movies and how that there were very few gung-ho ones compared to WWII. J said (I paraphrase wildly here) "It's understandable, there was no glory or glamour in Vietnam, I was there and it was a clusterfuck". So I said "I didn't know British soldiers were there", and J replied (pretty much exact words) "No, a few of us resigned and went there with the Australians". And that was about it.

So I have a question relating to this: Did some British soldiers hook up with the Aussies in Vietnam? If so, is it probable that they were special forces?


* My ex's grandfather joined one of the Scottish regiments a couple of years before J joined his, and ex's g. eventually made RSM. He's said once or twice (in his cups) that the rumours about J's service are probably true.

[Mr. Slant]

Struan's special forces vet sounds like the one I met. He wasn't QUITE out of service yet, but he was attending college classes while posted at a nearby base in North Carolina, getting ready to go into law enforcement and essentially counting down months to discharge.
Very neat guy. I always knew there was something about him even before I realized he was in SF. Incidentally, he just said he was in the army when I asked whether or not he was employed. I had to ask before he would mention special forces.
A young woman in class mentioned that, "Learning to defend yourself would be a great part of being in the service."
He noted that you really wouldn't want to use your military training on the street... most soldiers don't learn useful amounts about non-lethal force, and "killing a man is the worst thing you'll ever do in your life. I've done it seven times, and it gets worse afterwards every time; those guys were just there, doing their jobs, just like me. I know they had to have families...."
He mentioned being in the service like five times in the two years we knew each other. Real nice guy, very centered, and I wish more cops were the man he was, but I also realize the cloth he was cut from is very rare.

[Mr. Slant]

Oh, and I forgot to say, if you have any doubt, then he didn't.

[Monty]

Ask him to show you his DD 214. I don't see that Records Center providing a copy of that form to anyone who asks for it. It does have, after all, information covered by the Privacy Act. From the link Smitty provided:

2. Restrictions on release of information. Release of information is subject to restrictions imposed by the military services consistent with Department of Defense regulations and the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) and the Privacy Act of 1974. The service member (either past or present) or the member's legal guardian has access to almost any information contained in that member's own record. Others requesting information from military personnel/health records must have the release authorization in Section III of the SF 180 signed by the member or legal guardian, but if the appropriate signature cannot be obtained, only limited types of information can be provided. If the former member is deceased, surviving next of kin may, under certain circumstances, be entitled to greater access to a deceased veteran's records than a member of the public. The next of kin may be any of the following: unremarried surviving spouse, father, mother, son, daughter, sister, or brother. Employers and others needing proof of military service are expected to accept the information shown on documents issued by the military service departments at the time a service member is separated.

[aruvqan]

Originally Posted by Mr. Slant

He noted that you really wouldn't want to use your military training on the street... most soldiers don't learn useful amounts about non-lethal force, and "killing a man is the worst thing you'll ever do in your life. I've done it seven times, and it gets worse afterwards every time; those guys were just there, doing their jobs, just like me. I know they had to have families...."

My father gets nightmares from his 30 years in the army WW2, Korea and beginning of Vietnam. Sweetest and most gentle man I know, and I would not want his memories in a million years.

[Common Tater]

The worst thing about wannabes is that they present a false image to civilians who might tend to base their opinions about any number of issues upon these loser types who feel compelled to lie about their service, if any. "Stolen Valor" is a great book, the impetus largely brought about when a retiree was watching a news blurb one evening, and heard some idiot spouting off about something during an interview and claiming combat/special service etc. A little investigation showed the guy was a complete liar. Typically the type of folks who make outrageous claims are goofball, loner John Wayne types - exactly the sort who are never selected for the organizations they claim to have belonged to.

[sweeteviljesus]

Originally Posted by askeptic

How old is your friend? 18Z would indicate that he was the Operations NCO of an ODA (Operations Detachment Alpha) a twelve man team. Ask him if he knows what riser grease is.

He is about 44. He told me he was E-6. What is riser grease?

Rob

[mittu]

From searching about a bit on Google it seems that riser grease is a non-existent product that is used to play tricks on people. Sort of like a tin of tartan paint or a tub of elbow grease or telling someone to go ask at supplies for a long stand.

I could be wrong and i'm sure someone will correct me if I am but that is the impression I get.

[Surbey]

Originally Posted by Szlater

Ask him what colour the boathouse is at Hereford.

... I don't get it

[cerberus]

The Thompson Submachine Gun drum magazines typically have 50-round capacity. There may be something in the 1050-round neighborhood, but a 450-round magazine would be rather large, especially in a rotary configuration.

Maybe his Thompson was belt-fed.

[Scruloose]

Originally Posted by Surbey

... I don't get it

It's from the movie Ronin. Rober DeNiro's character (Sam) outs one of the characters (Spence) who claims to be prior SAS. Sam challenges Spence to state what color the boathouse is in Hereford, allegedly because anyone that was in the SAS would know the answer.

Originally Posted by the movie Ronin

Spence: Okay, we got shooters here...Shooters here. I'll tell you an old trick...
Sam: Hey [walks up to places coffee on table as he walks up to board and erases the diagram]
Spence: What's your problem?
Sam: Draw it again. Draw it again. You're the ace field man, draw it again. It's a simple diagram, just draw it again. Draw what you say! Draw it again! Draw it again!!
[grabs marker and re-draws the diagram]
Sam: Two shooters, car comes through here, shooters across from each other kill each other dead. Oh my? Where'd you learn that? Heh??
Spence: In a Regiment.
Sam: What Regiment was that?
Spence: The 22nd Special Air Service.
Sam: What's the color of the boathouse at Hereford? What's the color of the boathouse at Hereford?!
Spence: I don't like your attitude.
Sam: What's the color of the boathouse...
Spence: Oh FUCK OFF!
Sam: What's...You got the gun. I'm unarmed. Do something. Go ahead, do something. Do something!
[as he gets into Spence's face, he backs up towards the coffee table]
Sam: Do something!
[Spence spills the coffee and Sam grabs his throat leaning him backwards over a railing as he takes his gun.]
Sam: Oh, tell me about an ambush?? Tell me about an ambush?! I ambushed you with a fuckin coffee cup!!

http://www.angelfire.com/oh/quotatio...s/r/ronin.html

[Valgard]

Originally Posted by cerberus

The Thompson Submachine Gun drum magazines typically have 50-round capacity. There may be something in the 1050-round neighborhood, but a 450-round magazine would be rather large, especially in a rotary configuration.

Maybe his Thompson was belt-fed.

1050 would certainly be a bit big as well :-)

They did make 100-round drums but I've read that they were noisy and slow to load so not very popular outside of the gangster set.

[Tripler]

I've actually met quite a few Special Ops guys through the HORSE (STS squadrons, Combat Weather/Pararescue), and yeah, it's just one of those things: nobody brags. If you have a suspicion, ask them what squadron they were in, where they were, and then later on use the power of the Internet to find out what they did. If they do brag, they're spinning yarns and telling you a tale. . .

I mean, I'm active duty, but won't bore you with the details of my airfield construction, even though I wasn't special forces, most have this idyllic vision of RED HORSE as "Damned Up There".

Most consider the details of the work "cool", but it ain't. You just do what you do.

Tripler
Now I'm gonna be a PowerPoint Ranger, in the AFRC Chairborne Corps.

[cerberus]

d'Oh!

I meant drums in the 50 to 100 round range....

[msmith537]

Forget what these guys say. Just walk up to him and punch him in the face. If he kills you with his bare hands, you have your answer.

[glee]

One of my teacher colleagues had obviously worked in the military, but he never boasted about it. He kindly offered to explain to pupils how you could live in the wild with just a small kit (items such as needle, thread, compass) and arranged for another class to have a go on an assault course at a local military base.

Several years later I noticed him reading a book about British soldiers in Germany when there were 4 zones of control (US, UK, Soviet and French). I borrowed it later and found a picture of my colleague. He had been an SAS officer and carried out missions in the Soviet Zone. The book stated he'd been targeted by the Soviets and had narrowly escaoped death a couple of times.

When I asked him about it, he gave a short description, then changed the subject.
As others have said, usually a boaster is a fake.

[Speaker for the Dead]

Originally Posted by msmith537

Forget what these guys say. Just walk up to him and punch him in the face. If he kills you with his bare hands, you have your answer.

Yeah, the old Seven Samurai tactic. Get someone to hide inside the door with a stick, ready to hit him as he walks through. If he reacts and stops it, he's clearly been in the special forces/is a samurai .

[HMS Irruncible]

Originally Posted by redtail23

Ditto. People who have really been in special ops units don't talk about it.

You've been reading too many Tom Clancy books. People who really have been in special ops units do talk about it and sometimes you can't shut them up. It's the black-ops members that aren't supposed to talk. Most spec ops people aren't involved in black ops; in fact they often have responsibilities that you wouldn't consider "badass" although they are important, complex, and, well, specialized. For example the OP's neighbor might have very well been a dentist or something, pulling wisdom teeth to win the hearts and minds of the people deep behind enemy lines (seriously).

[Walloon]

Originally Posted by Smitty

You need his full name, social security number, dates of service, and unit. You can fill out this form and send it here:

National Personnel Records
(Navy/Army/Airforce) Military Personnel Records
9700 Page Blvd.
St. Louis, MO 63132

This will tell you everything about his service record.

No, it will not. Unless you are the veteran, or have the signed authorization of the veteran, or a deceased veteran's next of kin, you will receive only limited information under the FOIA about his service in the U.S. armed forces. Specifically,

• Name
• Service Number
• Dates of Service
• Branch of Service
• Rank and Date of Rank
• Salary *
• Assignments and Geographical Locations
• Source of Commission *
• Military Education
• Promotion Sequence Number *
• Awards and decorations (Eligibility only, not actual medals)
• Duty Status
• Photograph
• Transcript of Court-Martial Trial
• Place of entrance and separation

Items marked with an asterisk are rarely available in the records.

And if the veteran is deceased:

• Place of birth
• Date and location of death
• Place of burial

Note that only the vet's branch of service is given (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines), not his unit (e.g., Special Forces).

More information here.

[Tripler]

Originally Posted by Brain Wreck

You've been reading too many Tom Clancy books. People who really have been in special ops units do talk about it and sometimes you can't shut them up.

I don't know who you've been talking to, but it's my personal experience that a veteran, any veteran, will not talk about what they did, solely because they did so damn much. If you've found a "bearded warrior" who didn't shut up, I'd quietly listen to his stories, and the next day verify it somehow. There are some who do brag, but in my experience, it's only been in quiet company, and then only over a couple of beers. . .

Tripler
"So there I was, over Grozny . . ."

[Airman Doors, USAF]

Originally Posted by redtail23

Ditto. People who have really been in special ops units don't talk about it.

There is a big distinction to be made related to your comment here.

Special Forces relates to a particular type of unit in the Army. Special operations iis entirely distinct from that. For instance, every unit in the Air Force Special Operations Command (AFSOC) does special operations. What I do is no big secret, you can look it up easily on the Internet. It's simply that the job is not within the purview of the "normal" forces. Gunships, for exmple, are not bombers, fighters or transports. Their job is not one of the "standard" jobs withing the Air Force. Therefore, they became a part of AFSOC, which is in turn a part of US Special Operations Command, which consists of jobs that run the gamut from the traditional "Snake eater" types to my job, which is simply a unique one.

I am in a special ops unit. I am not, however, a chairborne warrior who tells stories at bars. See the difference?

That's all. Nothing more than a nitpick, but an important one.

[Martin Hyde]

Originally Posted by Tripler

I don't know who you've been talking to, but it's my personal experience that a veteran, any veteran, will not talk about what they did, solely because they did so damn much. If you've found a "bearded warrior" who didn't shut up, I'd quietly listen to his stories, and the next day verify it somehow. There are some who do brag, but in my experience, it's only been in quiet company, and then only over a couple of beers. . .

Tripler
"So there I was, over Grozny . . ."

Mmm. At least since the Civil War people have made careers out of faking military service. At the same time, since long before that people who have legitimate service records have made careers out of telling their tales . Grant made a good bit of money for his family for example shortly before his death when he had his memoirs published.

Not all braggarts are false. There's veterans with interesting stories that aren't lying, not all bragging is false, although a high percentage of it is.

[Tripler]

Originally Posted by Martin Hyde

Not all braggarts are false. There's veterans with interesting stories that aren't lying, not all bragging is false, although a high percentage of it is.

And that's all I'm saying: for the uninitiated, be prepared to turn on your BS-meter, and have a rock of sodium chloride in yer back pocket.

Martin, yer absolutely right: there are plenty of good men and women with pretty good stories to tell. However, in the case of the OP, it is rare to none that someone will advertise that, "Hey! Lookit me!! I was Special Forces, oooOOooooh!"

Tripler
There's a lot of veterans who just don't plain tell their story, and it's those histories we miss.

[First Amongst Daves]

Etymology of "snake-eater"?

[slaphead]

Originally Posted by Tripler

Martin, yer absolutely right: there are plenty of good men and women with pretty good stories to tell. However, in the case of the OP, it is rare to none that someone will advertise that, "Hey! Lookit me!! I was Special Forces, oooOOooooh!"

There are only a handful in relation to the numbers of people who have served, but there are actually a number of bloggers who do just that.
They do all tend to flap more on the right wing than the left, but most of them have a good anecdote or two. Most of them also have tips on how to spot fakers.

[glee]

You may be interested in three books about an SAS patrol deep behind enemy lines in Iraq.

The first is 'Bravo Two Zero', by Andy McNab. (All comments are Amazon reviews, but having read the books I agree with them.)

'In January 1991, eight members of the SAS regiment embarked upon a top secret mission that was to infiltrate them deep behind enemy lines. Under the command of Sergeant Andy McNab, they were to sever the underground communication link between Baghdad and north-west Iraq, and to seek and destroy mobile Scud launchers. Their call sign: Bravo Two Zero. Each man laden with 15 stone of equipment, they patrolled 20 km across flat desert to reach their objective. Within days, their location was compromised. After a fierce firefight, they were forced to escape and evade on foot to the Syrian border. In the desperate action that followed, though stricken by hypothermia and other injuries, the patrol 'went ballistic'. Four men were captured. Three died. Only one escaped. For the survivors, however, the worst ordeals were to come. Delivered to Baghdad, they were tortured with a savagery for which not even their intensive SAS training had prepared them. "Bravo Two Zero" is a breathtaking account of Special Forces soldiering: a chronicle of superhuman courage, endurance and dark humour in the face of overwhelming odds.'

Next came 'The one that got away' by Chris Ryan.

'The SAS mission conducted behind Iraqi lines is one of the most famous stories of courage and survival in modern warfare. Of the eight members of the SAS regiment who set off, only one escaped capture. This is his story. Late on the evening of 24 January 1991 the patrol was compromised deep behind enemy lines in Iraq. A fierce fire-fight left the eight men miraculously unscathed, but they were forced to run for their lives. Their aim was to reach the Syrian border, 120 kilometres to the north-west, but during the first night the patrol accidentally broke into two groups, five and three. Chris Ryan found himself left with two companions. Nothing had prepared them for the vicious cold of the desert winter, and they began to suffer from hypothermia. During the night one of the men was to disappear in a blinding blizzard. The next day a goat-herd came across the two survivors. Chris's remaining partner, went with him in search of food and was never to return. Left on his own, Chris Ryan beat off an Iraqi attack and set out alone. His greatest adventure was only just beginning. This is the story of courage under fire, of hairbreadth escapes, of the best trained soldiers in the world fighting against adverse conditions, and of one man's courageous refusal to lie down and die.'

Finally comes 'Soldier Five: The Real Truth About the Bravo Two Zero Mission' by Michael Asher:

'The Bravo Two Zero mission, in which an eight-man SAS patrol was discovered many miles behind Iraqui lines and had to make a run back for the border and safety, is probably the most famous incident involving British troops in the Gulf War. Two bestselling books--Bravo Two Zero and The One That Got Away--were published and two of the soldiers, using the pseudonyms "Andy McNab" and "Chris Ryan", were launched into new careers as writers. Even the most uncritical reader of the two books would have been aware that some artistic licence had been employed. What Michael Asher claims is the truth about Bravo Two Zero is, however, astonishing. Asher, fluent in Arabic and familiar with the ways of the desert Arabs, travelled to Iraq 10 years after the Gulf War and re-traced the steps of the SAS patrol, finding Bedouin eyewitnesses to events. There is an almost comical disparity between McNab and Ryan's version of the mission and the version Asher reports. According to McNab, when the patrol was discovered, it was by Iraqi soldiers and a furious firefight ensued with the SAS men downing a dozen or more men before fleeing. According to Asher, the mission was "compromised" by three Arab locals, one of them a man in his 70s, and the SAS wisely decided that discretion was the better part of valour and withdrew. According to Ryan, on his lonely journey to the Syrian border, he was obliged to kill two Iraqis, one with his bare hands. According to Asher's sources, he omitted to mention this at his initial de-briefing. One of Asher's aims in his book is to rehabilitate the reputation of Vince Phillips, one of the dead. Most readers of this book and of the tale told by the Arab who discovered Phillips's body will probably decide that he has done so. Yet Asher does not seem motivated by a desire to denigrate the heroism of McNab and Ryan. We get the heroes we want and Asher understands that the Rambo-like exploits they reported were what we, and the media, demanded of them. Their real heroism, respected by both Asher and the Bedouins to whom he spoke, lay in their powers of endurance and determination when utterly isolated and alone, hundreds of miles inside enemy territory. In The Real Bravo Two Zero Asher has written a far better and more humane book than either of the two he deconstructs, but he still seems to understand why McNab and Ryan produced the books they did.'

[Wallenstein]

Originally Posted by First Amongst Daves

Etymology of "snake-eater"?

Special Forces training usually involves extreme jungle survival... one good way of staying alive is killing and eating snakes, and troops are taught how to do this.

I guess it sounds so gruesome and different from ordinary life that it's an image that stuck.

[sweeteviljesus]

I don't see this friend much anymore. We run in different circles now. I tried looking him up on Military.com but I couldn't remember how he spelled his last name. For the name I tried, I got one hit which listed MOS as 12B1C, whatever that is, and a pay grade of E4. If it's the same person, that obviously doesn't jive with what he told me.

He tells me some stories which sound very believable, but then he tells me things like the thing about tommy guns. (Actually, he was telling someone else, but I was right next to him). I would think anyone who was an 18Z would know a lot about weapons he might encounter in the field, although he probably wouldn't be able to quote muzzle velocities. He also told me a story about visiting some of his friends at Fort Bragg on vacation one time and claimed that the standards for joining SF had become very lax since he was in.

Anyway, it's hard to figure out why he says this stuff. No one believes him and he certainly doesn't do it to get girls. He told me he hadn't been laid for several years before I met him and that was ten years ago.

That said, he is not a bad guy, just a little weird, and all my other friends are weird.

FWIW,
Rob

[HMS Irruncible]

Originally Posted by sweeteviljesus

For the name I tried, I got one hit which listed MOS as 12B1C, whatever that is, and a pay grade of E4.

FWIW, this would be what's called a "combat engineer", which is essentially a ditch-digger who gets shot at. At the lower enlisted grades, essentially you're talking about construction workers and everything that implies. I could easily see how a 12B would want to make people to think he had been something else.

[Fir na tine]

Originally Posted by Martin Hyde

Mmm. At least since the Civil War people have made careers out of faking military service. At the same time, since long before that people who have legitimate service records have made careers out of telling their tales .

William Shakespeare referred to it quite a few years ago.


And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.


St. Crispin's Day

[Chronos]

Heck, in classical Roman times, the "miles gloriosos", or "braggart soldier" was one of the stock character archetypes in comedies. I'm not sure, though, whether the archtypical braggart had actually done the things he bragged about.

[Bear_Nenno]

Originally Posted by sweeteviljesus

I have an acquaintence who claims to have been in the Special Forces. He was definitely in the Army, but he is such a Walter Mitty type, I have great difficulty believing he was in SF. He told me his MOS was 18Z and I know that he was in the service in the early to mid-eighties. Is there some way to know, like a coin or something? I was sitting with him one time when he told someone that the drum on a Thompson submachinegun held 450 rounds.

Just curious,
Rob

This is an easy one, and the answer is so obvious.

The Special Forces Branch and Career Managment Field (CMF) 18 did not exist until 1988. So if he served in the early to mid 80s, it is impossible for him to have been an 18Z. Period.

He is about 44. He told me he was E-6.

18Z is for E-8s and ABOVE.

He's full of shit.

Want to ask him a couple questions? Try these:
What was your MOS before 18Z? (Should be 18 A,B,C,D or E) Ask him what that job title was.
Ask him what Scuba Road is.
Ask him WHAT ODA he was with. The answer should be a number. Let me know what he says.

[Bear_Nenno]

Also, if you mean that he was ONLY in the service from the early to mid 80s, then he is absolutely--without a doubt--full of shit. 18Zs need to have like 12-18 years in the service with A LOT of time on an ODA before they can be a Zulu.

[pretend my name is witty]

Another message board I frequent the British Army Rumour Service (arrse.co.uk) has threads about 'walts' every few months.

This one is brilliant.

Number one of the little known facts about the SAS is that all UK pubs are required by law to have one alcoholic regular who used to be a member of the SAS and was one of the first pair into the Iranian Embassy.

[FRDE]

Originally Posted by Szlater

Ask him what colour the boathouse is at Hereford.

This has been puzzling me for days

I've never seen a poole table that was not green.
- yet some come out of the blue.

I have not served, but known a few that have, they were certainly not Walter Mitty types. Thinking about it, none have even talked about their regiments, just incidents that make the jigsaw.

Would anyone know about 'switching off' ?

[DrDeth]

Originally Posted by Tripler

I don't know who you've been talking to, but it's my personal experience that a veteran, any veteran, will not talk about what they did, solely because they did so damn much. "

True, and yet not true. My Dad was a decorated Vet from WWII. He'd tell lots of stories, just not many about combat. He'd talk about the food, the mold, the bugs, and other things that could be a little funny or ironic- Basic training was the font of many stories. Only time he'd tell about real combat is if the story was a bit funny. For example, he was a Non-com, part of HQ. He'd run messages up to the front in a jeep, though the jungle- occupied by snipers. He said that was one use for the Tommy gun, when a sniper shot at the jeep, they'd dive faster and maybe zig-zag, while everyone not driving would empty a magazine into the jungle, hoping to spoil the snipers aim. He said it was kind of funny, tearing through the jungle on a crappy road, bouncing up and down so hard you'd have to hang on with one hand, while firing a tommy gun or grease gun with the other hand, praying for bad aim - on the part of the sniper.

So yeah- if he tells you tales about his sadistic DI, or the bad food, or the idiot junior officers, then believe them. Combat- not so much.

[Wakinyan]

Originally Posted by DrDeth

True, and yet not true. My Dad was a decorated Vet from WWII. He'd tell lots of stories, just not many about combat. He'd talk about the food, the mold, the bugs, and other things that could be a little funny or ironic-

This is exactly how I would describe my grandfather, also vet from WWII; at the finnish-soviet front from '39 to '44. I remember once when he was in a good mood, had had a cognac or two, and described the awful problems they had with lice; you just couldn't get rid of them, they crawled out of the seams when the underware came back from the laundry, and so forth. One of his sons made a joke, everything in good humor: "They were worse than the russians?"

My grandfather's smile disappeared, as suddenly a shadow came over his face, and he said: "No, they were not worse than the russians."

Obviously, everybody talked about something else next.

He had nightmares all his life. My grandmother said: I married one man, and got another after the war. They slept in different rooms due to his nightmares from the forties until he passed away in the eighties.

[pulykamell]

Originally Posted by DrDeth

True, and yet not true. My Dad was a decorated Vet from WWII. He'd tell lots of stories, just not many about combat. He'd talk about the food, the mold, the bugs, and other things that could be a little funny or ironic- Basic training was the font of many stories. Only time he'd tell about real combat is if the story was a bit funny. For example, he was a Non-com, part of HQ. He'd run messages up to the front in a jeep, though the jungle- occupied by snipers. He said that was one use for the Tommy gun, when a sniper shot at the jeep, they'd dive faster and maybe zig-zag, while everyone not driving would empty a magazine into the jungle, hoping to spoil the snipers aim. He said it was kind of funny, tearing through the jungle on a crappy road, bouncing up and down so hard you'd have to hang on with one hand, while firing a tommy gun or grease gun with the other hand, praying for bad aim - on the part of the sniper.

So yeah- if he tells you tales about his sadistic DI, or the bad food, or the idiot junior officers, then believe them. Combat- not so much.

And my father, too. He fought in 'nam and, growing up, I remember him telling me anyone who brags about being in Vietnam and killing is full of shit. While I don't believe this rule holds 100% for everyone, it is true of every veteran I have ever met. Only one time has my father told me about actual combat, a few years ago, and it completely threw me for a loop. Normally, it was just funny stories about basic training, getting high, and some Vietnamese girl he had the hots for.

[UncleRojelio]

Originally Posted by pretend my name is witty

This one is brilliant.

Why can't we have the some of the smilies those guys have?