What is the historical evidence people were paid in salt?

[Derleth]

Where is the historical evidence that people were paid in salt? It’s something I hear thrown around as something ‘everyone knows’, and everyone knows most of those bits of knowledge are crap.

No, don’t mention the word ‘salary’ unless you can find a cite that outdoes the American Heritage Dictionary, as quoted here*:

[Middle English salarie, from Anglo-Norman, from Latin salārium, money given to Roman soldiers to buy salt, from neuter of salārius, pertaining to salt, from sāl, salt.]

Emphasis mine.

*(Or, perhaps, unless you really believe that the popularity of the term ‘pin money’ means people were paid in pins. ;))

[Standard_Nathan]

i know he’s been wrong before, but Cecil claims that roman soldiers were paid in salt.

[Mangetout]

@Derleth

*(Or, perhaps, unless you really believe that the popularity of the term ‘pin money’ means people were paid in pins. ;))

I thought the term ‘pin money’ came from when people manufactured small quantities of metal pins by hand, outside of their normal working hours (and independently of their main job), and therefore ‘pin money’ was therefore (somewhat)disposable income. Did I get this wrong?

[Ol_Gaffer]

@Standard Nathan

i know he’s been wrong before, but Cecil claims that roman soldiers were paid in salt.

::points finger::
HERETIC!! Somebody get some wood and some torches.

[Exapno_Mapcase]

@Mangetout

I thought the term ‘pin money’ came from when people manufactured small quantities of metal pins by hand, outside of their normal working hours (and independently of their main job), and therefore ‘pin money’ was therefore (somewhat)disposable income. Did I get this wrong?

Apparently.

From the Online Etymology Dictionary:

Pin-money “annual sum allotted to a woman for personal expenses on dress, etc.” is attested from 1621.

[Mangetout]

fair enough.

[Derleth]

In this matter, I’d bet on the AHD before Cecil. Maybe samclem can weigh in with what the OED says; I understand he has access to that.

Word origins aside, is there any good evidence that anyone ever made an official practice of paying wages using salt? That is, barter for salt doesn’t count: Salt has to have been used as a store of value, the role gold usually assumes.

[MikeS]

@Derleth

Maybe samclem can weigh in with what the OED says; I understand he has access to that.

Most Universities have access to the online version. Including mine.

@OED

a. AF. salarie = OF. salaire, It. salario, Sp., Pg. salario, ad. L. salarium, orig. money allowed to Roman soldiers for the purchase of salt, hence, their pay; subst. use of neut. sing. of salarius pertaining to salt, f. sal salt.

Don’t think you’re going to get anything more authoritative than that.

[glateherrny]

Oooh, I go to University and post authoritative information! Lah de dah!

[Nic2004]

@glateherrny

Oooh, I go to University and post authoritative information! Lah de dah!

Was this supposed to be humor?

MikeS
<bolding mine>

a. AF. salarie = OF. salaire, It. salario, Sp., Pg. salario, ad. L. salarium, orig. money allowed to Roman soldiers for the purchase of salt, hence, their pay; subst. use of neut. sing. of salarius pertaining to salt, f. sal salt.

Does this mean actual payment in salt or does it mean money to buy salt? I can read this both ways.

[CalMeacham]

According to Wikipedia, the citation first appears in Pliny’s Natural History – that’s the cite you’rwe looking for, Pliny was an Ancient Roman, but not as ancient as the practice, so you can reasonably ask if he got it right. Here’s the relevant portion of the Wiki entry:

Similarly, the Roman word salarium linked employment, salt and soldiers, but the exact link is unclear. The least common theory is that the word soldier itself comes from the Latin sal dare (to give salt). Alternatively, the Roman historian Pliny the Elder stated as an aside in his Natural History’s discussion of sea water, that “*n Rome. . .the soldier’s pay was originally salt and the word salary derives from it. . .” Plinius Naturalis Historia XXXI. Others note that soldier more likely derives from the solidus (coin), with which soldiers were known to have been paid, and maintain instead that the salarium was either an allowance for the purchase of salt or the price of having soldiers conquer salt supplies and guard the Salt Roads (Via Salarium) that led to Rome.

Regardless of the exact connection, the salarium paid to Roman soldiers has defined a form of work-for-hire ever since in the Western world, and gave rise to such expressions as “being worth one’s salt.”

Salary

[Tastes_of_Chocolate]

@glateherrny

Oooh, I go to University and post authoritative information! Lah de dah!

Welcome to the board, glateherrny. May I suggest that you read up on the purposes of the different forums here? This one, General Questions, is for factual questions and answers. [MikeS] factually stated that he is associated with a university and had access to OED, which had been previously requested. Then he posted that information.

[Bobotheoptimist]

@Nic2004

@glateherrny

Oooh, I go to University and post authoritative information! Lah de dah!

Was this supposed to be humor?

I hope so, it made me laugh! Rather Python-esque in tone. “Look at Mr. I-have-the-correct-answer-to-the-question. Whoop de do Mr. My-Mum-didn’t-lock-me-in-the-cellar, just a regular Dr. Bloody Bronowski aren’t you?” all done by Cleese playing the BBC interview guy on the raised platform (you know the set I’m talking about) - “We have with us today the foremost authority on tin mining in Britain”, “Coal mining”, “WHAT?”, “Er, coal mining. I do coal mining”, “OOOOH, Coal mining is it? Well…” etc.

I’m sorry, what was the question?

[MikeS]

@Bobotheoptimist

I hope so, it made me laugh! Rather Python-esque in tone. “Look at Mr. I-have-the-correct-answer-to-the-question. Whoop de do Mr. My-Mum-didn’t-lock-me-in-the-cellar, just a regular Dr. Bloody Bronowski aren’t you?” all done by Cleese playing the BBC interview guy on the raised platform (you know the set I’m talking about) - “We have with us today the foremost authority on tin mining in Britain”, “Coal mining”, “WHAT?”, “Er, coal mining. I do coal mining”, “OOOOH, Coal mining is it? Well…” etc.

For what it’s worth, that’s how I took it as well.

[Derleth]

MikeS: That settles the origin of the word ‘salary’ to my satisfaction. Thank you.

glateherrny: Ha!

So, what about the other front? My Google search only turns up the familiar canard about the word ‘salary’, which we’ve just been over, and is a bit light on the evidence.

[CalMeacham]

Derleth – read my post, #11

[Derleth]

@CalMeacham

Derleth – read my post, #11

Oh, damn. Sorry I missed it.

So, is it all down to Pliny getting it wrong? That seems plausible, at least to me.

[AskNott]

No, no, no! It was all a misunderstanding. They were paid in vegetables, and the word was celery.

[samclem]

@AskNott

No, no, no! It was all a misunderstanding. They were paid in vegetables, and the word was celery.

Now THAT"S funny.

I think I agree with Pliny making the error as all my best etymology sources agree with the OED.