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  #1  
Old 08-05-2006, 03:46 PM
astro astro is offline
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Can I make whole milk out of Half & Half + water?

Bachelor living leaves me no milk, and almost a full quart of Half & Half. Can I use this to make whole milk somehow if I blend it with water? I've got a blender.
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  #2  
Old 08-05-2006, 03:56 PM
freckafree freckafree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astro
Bachelor living leaves me no milk, and almost a full quart of Half & Half. Can I use this to make whole milk somehow if I blend it with water? I've got a blender.
According to a USDA website, half & half contains a minium of 10.5% milk fat, max of 18%. Whole milk contains a minimum of 3.25%. So you could cut the half & half with water to get in the ballpark of the milk fat content of whole milk. I don't think you'd need to use a blender.

I have no idea if it's going to taste like whole milk. And I wouldn't try doing the whole quart -- just enough for whatever you have an immediate use for.
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  #3  
Old 08-05-2006, 03:58 PM
Sattua Sattua is online now
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Milk fat is not the same as milk solids. If you mixed the two together, you really, really wouldn't have milk. You'd have... I don't know. Water and milkfat. If you gave it a whirl in the blender, it might turn the milkfat into butter. And a lot of water. Wouldn't that be yummy?
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  #4  
Old 08-05-2006, 03:59 PM
WhyNot WhyNot is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astro
Bachelor living leaves me no milk, and almost a full quart of Half & Half. Can I use this to make whole milk somehow if I blend it with water? I've got a blender.
No. The milk solids ratio will be wrong. You'll have fatty water. But try it, you might like it anyway.
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  #5  
Old 08-05-2006, 07:02 PM
elfbabe elfbabe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astro
Bachelor living leaves me no milk, and almost a full quart of Half & Half. Can I use this to make whole milk somehow if I blend it with water? I've got a blender.
Definitely not.

When I was a kid, a friend's mom (who didn't grow up in Wisconsin, for the record) once tried to make skim milk for me by watering down the whole milk. It tasted like whole milk, only more watery. This would basically be the same thing.

If you've ever cooked ground beef and skimmed some of the fat off, or used a napkin to blot some of the grease off of a particularly greasy burger or piece of pizza, it's basically the same concept. Think about mixing water in with those things and you'll understand why it won't work for milk.

That being said, what do you need the milk for? If you want to cook something, you can probably get by with using half and half. If you're going to drink it, though, it's probably not going to taste too good.
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  #6  
Old 08-05-2006, 07:25 PM
GingerOfTheNorth GingerOfTheNorth is offline
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Ditto elfbabe's answer - use the half & half if you're cooking and need milk. Whatever it is won't suffer, it will only be richer.
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  #7  
Old 08-05-2006, 07:30 PM
Contrapuntal Contrapuntal is offline
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I'm going to slightly disagree. For cooking purposes, a blend of half and half and milk works fine. Depending on the recipe, it works in baking as well.
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  #8  
Old 08-05-2006, 07:38 PM
Harmonious Discord Harmonious Discord is offline
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I always felt sorry for the kid that had parents making milk from evapotated milk or powdered. Nothing mixes up to taste like a pasturized gallon of milk. Powdered milk is ok for cooking when you don't have milk. It works good in a hot cocoa mix also. I keep a small amount for bread making and cooking emergencies.
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  #9  
Old 08-05-2006, 08:59 PM
kanicbird kanicbird is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious Discord
Nothing mixes up to taste like a pasturized gallon of milk.
True, but I'd put raw milk far ahead IMHO.

As to the OP. I beleive you could mix 1/2 and 1/2 with the proper percentage of skim milk to make whole milk. But if it's for cooking water and 1/2 and 1/2 should work great, probabally better then whole milk (heavy cream even better).

But considering you have it why not try it already (and let us know).
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  #10  
Old 08-06-2006, 12:36 AM
Exapno Mapcase Exapno Mapcase is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanicbird
True, but I'd put raw milk far ahead IMHO.

As to the OP. I beleive you could mix 1/2 and 1/2 with the proper percentage of skim milk to make whole milk.
No, this won't work for the same reasons that mixing half-and-half with water won't work.
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  #11  
Old 08-06-2006, 08:55 AM
kanicbird kanicbird is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase
No, this won't work for the same reasons that mixing half-and-half with water won't work.
OK there goes my gas pump style milk dispenser idea, where it would only contain skim and heavy cream and blend it to order. But the question is why it wouldn't work. Half and half is already a blend of (heavy or light) cream and whole milk. Raw milk can be (is usually sepperated by itself) sepperated into cream and skim (or other percentages by removing part of the cream), mix them together and you get whole again.
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  #12  
Old 08-06-2006, 11:26 AM
Exapno Mapcase Exapno Mapcase is online now
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Not unless you can do home Homogenization. Your blender won't handle that.
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  #13  
Old 08-06-2006, 12:29 PM
groman groman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase
No, this won't work for the same reasons that mixing half-and-half with water won't work.
I don't understand. I'm assuming that whole milk generally has n% of non-fat "milk solids". For the sake of the argument let's assume that skim milk and half-and-half have the same n% of "milk solids"(a reasonable assumption). Now, if you mix a part of half-and-half with two parts water, your result will have (n/3)% milk solids and about 3.3% milkfat - watery milk. If you mix a part of half-and-half with two parts skim milk you'll have n% milk solids and about 3.3% milkfat - which seems to be the exact same thing as whole milk. I mean it might not mix well, but I think it should work.
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  #14  
Old 08-06-2006, 07:04 PM
susan susan is offline
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How about agitating the half and half until you've churned butter (butter-ish), then removing that?
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  #15  
Old 08-06-2006, 07:17 PM
Kiminy Kiminy is offline
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A lot depends on your *purpose* for needing whole milk.

If you want to drink it, it probably won't taste anything like whole milk. When I was growing up in the 60's, my father (a doctor) insisted that we drink skim milk, and to save money, he made my mother mix skim milk with reconstituted dried milk. While the mixture was probably still "milk," it so completely turned me off of milk that I cannot drink any kind of milk to this day. (No problems with other dairy products, though, regardless of fat content or not.) I also remember that during one of my first trans-continental flights as a child, the stewardess added ice cubes to the milk I requested. Even though it was whole milk, and I was used to drinking skim, it was a completely different texture and taste than what I was used to.

Even though I can't tolerate *drinking* reconstituted dry milk, I do keep dry milk powder on hand on a regular basis to use for cooking, and I've even used it successfully in making hot chocolate when I didn't have fresh milk available. I routinely add dry milk to some foods my son eats to increase the protein and caloric content (he's VERY underweight!), and he normally doesn't notice it if it's a food that already contains milk in some form. Adding dry milk powder to 2% milk also makes something relatively close to "cream," when I don't need whipped cream.

That said, I normally buy fat-free half-and-half, when I buy cream at all. I don't drink it straight, but it tastes the same as other cream-type products when I use in recipes that call for cream, or even when I add it to coffee or tea.
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  #16  
Old 08-06-2006, 08:26 PM
Exapno Mapcase Exapno Mapcase is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by groman
I don't understand. I'm assuming that whole milk generally has n% of non-fat "milk solids". For the sake of the argument let's assume that skim milk and half-and-half have the same n% of "milk solids"(a reasonable assumption). Now, if you mix a part of half-and-half with two parts water, your result will have (n/3)% milk solids and about 3.3% milkfat - watery milk. If you mix a part of half-and-half with two parts skim milk you'll have n% milk solids and about 3.3% milkfat - which seems to be the exact same thing as whole milk. I mean it might not mix well, but I think it should work.
Milk is a colloid. Homogenization reduces the size of the fat globules and puts them into a suspension. Merely mixing substances with different fat contents doesn't do anything toward making a consistent product. Check also this article on emulsion.
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  #17  
Old 08-07-2006, 07:56 AM
easy e easy e is offline
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But isn't half-and-half already homogenized? If you add skim milk to it, the fat globules should stay in suspension.
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  #18  
Old 08-07-2006, 06:10 PM
flex727 flex727 is offline
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Mixing half&half with water makes watery milk, as previously stated. Mixing with skim should work fine. Previous posters who denied that should provide a cite. It may not taste perfectly fine since half&half is probably ultra-pasteurized.
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  #19  
Old 08-07-2006, 10:09 PM
xbuckeye xbuckeye is offline
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Sorry I'm late, but I'm here with all your answers! (insert theme music here)

Half and Half plus water = nasty watery milkish substance
Half and Half plus skim = Whole milk (you can do the math for all the percentages)
Half and Half plus water plus nonfat dry skim = Whole milk, too (again I leave the math for you).

FTR, Whole milk is usually about 12% total solids, Skim is usually about 9% solids by weight. Half and Half can vary widely.

Half and Half is already homogenized, so whoever upthread said it wouldn't seperate is right. Once homogenized, the fat will stay in suspension. You can, indeed homogenize in a blender, but there may be some whipping of the fat involved, too.

Another FTR, fluid milk processors almost always seperate to skim and cream and then recombine a certain weight of skim and a certain weight of cream to get the desired fat level.

(theme music fades)
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  #20  
Old 08-08-2006, 07:46 AM
kanicbird kanicbird is offline
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So can my gas pump style milk dispenser work then? Where we have 2 tanks, one heavy cream, the other skim, and the consumer would press the button (skim, 1%, 2%, whole, 1/2 and 1/2, light cream, heavy cream) and the pump would blend the 2 and dispense it? What about buttermilk?
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  #21  
Old 08-08-2006, 09:02 AM
bordelond bordelond is offline
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FWIW, half-and-half over dry cereal is mighty tasty. Something about the OP suggested "cereal" to me (probably the reference to "bachelor living" ).
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  #22  
Old 08-08-2006, 11:24 AM
Exapno Mapcase Exapno Mapcase is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flex727
Mixing half&half with water makes watery milk, as previously stated. Mixing with skim should work fine. Previous posters who denied that should provide a cite. It may not taste perfectly fine since half&half is probably ultra-pasteurized.
Skim milk is nothing but water with milk proteins and sugars. If adding water to half-and-half won't work, will somebody explain the mechanism by which adding water with protein and sugar magically will? Obviously, the taste will be closer to milk, because of the lactose (milk sugar), but the fat dispersal won't have changed a bit, even with blending.
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  #23  
Old 08-08-2006, 11:33 AM
astro astro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bordelond
FWIW, half-and-half over dry cereal is mighty tasty. Something about the OP suggested "cereal" to me (probably the reference to "bachelor living" ).
Long ago I used to have a land lady that would polish off a pint of Haagen das every night, and in the morning eat a big cereal bowl filled with grape nuts and half and half instead of milk. Yes, she was a "big gal".
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  #24  
Old 08-08-2006, 01:15 PM
xbuckeye xbuckeye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase
Skim milk is nothing but water with milk proteins and sugars. If adding water to half-and-half won't work, will somebody explain the mechanism by which adding water with protein and sugar magically will? Obviously, the taste will be closer to milk, because of the lactose (milk sugar), but the fat dispersal won't have changed a bit, even with blending.
Milk is made up of three parts for the purposes of this discussion, we'll call them butterfat, non-fat solids, and water. Half and Half is 10.5 to 18% fat, and mine runs about 19% total solids so, lets say about 9% nonfat solids. Skim is about 0.08 % fat and about 9% solids. Non fat solids does not vary with amount of fat, total solids increases with increased fat level. As I said in my last post, once homogenised, the fat globules will stay suspended. Due to one of those pesky laws of chemistry, they will automatically disperse themselves to form an equilibrium. Once milk has been homogenized, you should think of the fat as solubilized, because it takes about half an hour and some really inedible chemicals to seperate it out again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanicbird
So can my gas pump style milk dispenser work then? Where we have 2 tanks, one heavy cream, the other skim, and the consumer would press the button (skim, 1%, 2%, whole, 1/2 and 1/2, light cream, heavy cream) and the pump would blend the 2 and dispense it? What about buttermilk?
Yes, it will work, except for the buttermilk. Buttermilk is a cultured product, so I guess you could make a machine that would pump out the milk of desired fat and a dairy culture, but then you would still have to incubate it before you use it.
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  #25  
Old 08-08-2006, 07:57 PM
flex727 flex727 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase
Skim milk is nothing but water with milk proteins and sugars. If adding water to half-and-half won't work, will somebody explain the mechanism by which adding water with protein and sugar magically will?
Um, because it has milk proteins and sugars?
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  #26  
Old 08-08-2006, 08:04 PM
Exapno Mapcase Exapno Mapcase is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flex727
Um, because it has milk proteins and sugars?
How does this affect the fat dispersal?
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  #27  
Old 08-08-2006, 08:16 PM
easy e easy e is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbuckeye
Yes, it will work, except for the buttermilk. Buttermilk is a cultured product, so I guess you could make a machine that would pump out the milk of desired fat and a dairy culture, but then you would still have to incubate it before you use it.
I know buttermilk nowadays is a cultured product, but wasn't it originally the liquid left after cream was turned into milk? At least, that's my interpretation of Little House in the Big Woods. What happens to that product now? I imagine it makes its way into processed foods (either human or animal).
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  #28  
Old 08-08-2006, 08:34 PM
xbuckeye xbuckeye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase
How does this affect the fat dispersal?
It doesn't, fat disperses itself by that whole "nature seeks a balance" thing. Mix brine with fresh water and see if you can maintain a physical seperation between the two. You can't, its the nature of a solution or a suspension. Its simple intro to chemistry material that you can Google, I'm sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by easy e
I know buttermilk nowadays is a cultured product, but wasn't it originally the liquid left after cream was turned into milk? At least, that's my interpretation of Little House in the Big Woods. What happens to that product now? I imagine it makes its way into processed foods (either human or animal).
Back in the olden days, whole milk was left to seperate. The fat was collected off the top and placed into a churn. The milk off the bottom was drunk or made into cheese. Once in the churn, the cream was churned. During churning, the fat globules rupture and the fat coagulates into a semisolid mass. The semisold mass was collected as butter, the remaining fluid was buttermilk. Today, we take cream and churn it into butter, and we dump the buttermilk. Larger plants may (probably do) convert it into something like animal feed or milk protein solids for protein suppliments or something of the like.
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  #29  
Old 08-08-2006, 09:31 PM
easy e easy e is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easy e
I know buttermilk nowadays is a cultured product, but wasn't it originally the liquid left after cream was turned into milk?
Looking at your reply, xbuckeye, I realize I made a typo. I meant "cream turned into butter."

And to think, I did chores on my grandparents dairy farm.
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  #30  
Old 10-18-2006, 06:33 PM
Defective Detective Defective Detective is offline
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We've spent a few days making conjectures.

Why don't you just experiment, astro, like ol' Cecil would do? It's a hell of a lot faster, easier, and more accurate than asking all of us. Let us know how it turns out.
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  #31  
Old 10-18-2006, 06:52 PM
groman groman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defective Detective
We've spent a few days making conjectures.

Why don't you just experiment, astro, like ol' Cecil would do? It's a hell of a lot faster, easier, and more accurate than asking all of us. Let us know how it turns out.
Well maybe everybody who tried, died of milk poisoning, which is why you're the first to post in this thread in a few months.
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  #32  
Old 10-18-2006, 09:46 PM
DesertDog DesertDog is offline
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I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the concept of 'fat-free half and half.' Luckily, Kiminy provided a link or I don't think I'd really believe it, and I notice Land O'Lakes isn't saying how they do it.
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  #33  
Old 10-18-2006, 10:49 PM
bouv bouv is offline
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Take it from someone who has done it:


It don't work.
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  #34  
Old 10-19-2006, 04:42 AM
chrisk chrisk is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bouv
Take it from someone who has done it:


It don't work.
who has done which, bouv? Are you replying to the original post or to the ongoing hijack about cream/skim milk mixing?

With respect to the hijack, my WAGs are leaning against Exapno's position. Mixing cream with anything with less fat content doesn't seem likely to produce anything with a fat distribution too obviously different from milk at whatever the appropriate level is. If you're mixing with water, then the result will not be like milk because the only milk solids and sugars are coming from the cream. If you're mixing with skim, then things have a good shot.

On the other hand, there's one little thought nagging at me. Yes, cream is emulsified - but it's emulsified at a fairly high fat level, and has the right proportion of emulsifiers to do this. Emulsification generally consists of ringing fat globules with emulsifier particles that are nonpolar at one end and polar at the other. Thus, they let the fat globules disperse evenly in a water-based medium, since fat is nonpolar and water is polar.

So, does cream have LARGER fat globules than 1% milk, or just more? If it has larger fat globules, then our home-mixed skim would have fewer and larger globules than 1%.

Is it in any way possible that mixing cream with something non-emulsified could throw off the emulsifier balance? I don't really see how. Every fat globule would carry its emulsifiers with it, (except maybe the last one when the pouring of cream ends, but that one probably gets cut in half and can be ignored because it's only one freaking tiny globule...) and I wouldn't think that any forces involved would be strong enough to tear the emulsifiers away from their fat globule. IF, however, this is possible, it would probably lead to fat globules combining.

Hope that all of this rambling was entertaining.
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  #35  
Old 10-19-2006, 07:59 AM
xbuckeye xbuckeye is offline
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Oh for the love of OG...this thread is back

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisk
On the other hand, there's one little thought nagging at me. Yes, cream is emulsified - but it's emulsified at a fairly high fat level, and has the right proportion of emulsifiers to do this. Emulsification generally consists of ringing fat globules with emulsifier particles that are nonpolar at one end and polar at the other. Thus, they let the fat globules disperse evenly in a water-based medium, since fat is nonpolar and water is polar.
The emulsifiers are naturally occuring in the milk already. We take advantage of the existing proteins for emulsification
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisk
So, does cream have LARGER fat globules than 1% milk, or just more? If it has larger fat globules, then our home-mixed skim would have fewer and larger globules than 1%.
It can be either, and is probably most often both, leaning towards more, not bigger since bigger would tend to seperate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisk
Is it in any way possible that mixing cream with something non-emulsified could throw off the emulsifier balance? I don't really see how. Every fat globule would carry its emulsifiers with it, (except maybe the last one when the pouring of cream ends, but that one probably gets cut in half and can be ignored because it's only one freaking tiny globule...) and I wouldn't think that any forces involved would be strong enough to tear the emulsifiers away from their fat globule. IF, however, this is possible, it would probably lead to fat globules combining.
Once homogenized...always homogenized.
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  #36  
Old 10-19-2006, 09:59 AM
DrDeth DrDeth is online now
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[QUOTE=kanicbird]True, but I'd put raw milk far ahead IMHO.

[QUOTE]

Unless you have your own cow, raw milk is very dangerous. It has no advantages at all, and many health risks.

If you like un-homogenized whole milk, you can still get that in Qt glass bottles.
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  #37  
Old 10-19-2006, 01:13 PM
xbuckeye xbuckeye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth
Unless you have your own cow, raw milk is very dangerous. It has no advantages at all, and many health risks.
Even if you have your own cow, raw milk isn't 100% safe. Pooling milk makes the chances of getting contaminated milk higher, but the chance of you getting enough of a given pathogen to get sick relatively low. OTOH, if your cow is the sick cow then you get enough of the pathogen to get sick. The risk of an adverse outcome from raw milk is still low compared to some other raw foods, but if you play a game of chance long enough, you will find the adverse outcome.

However, if you have your own cow...chances are you are drinking milk less that 12 hours old (since you are milking her twice a day) so the pathogens haven't had much of a change to grow.

And intersting and completely unrelated statistic: about 10% of the farms testing positive for antibiotic residue in milk 'round here last year were from organic farms. If you are drinking raw milk from the farms in one of those herd-sharing or other under-the-table coops, there is no state or federal oversite of mandatory drug residue screening you will get in a comercial processing facility. If you are allergic to any antibiotics, raw milk from the farms is really not for you.
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  #38  
Old 10-19-2006, 01:21 PM
groman groman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth
Unless you have your own cow, raw milk is very dangerous. It has no advantages at all, and many health risks.
Wait. What? Is this along the lines of 'rare steak' or 'raw eggs' being 'very dangerous' or is there actual science or statistics you can cite?
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  #39  
Old 10-19-2006, 02:55 PM
Shai'tan Shai'tan is offline
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Don't know about the science o' fat, but in real world experience:

My Sister-in-law does not keep whole milk in the fridge. She uses skim for her cereal and heavy cream or half and half for cooking/coffee. I can't stand skim milk, and can tell you for a fact that mixing skim with either of the other two will produce a perfectly acceptable "whole milk".
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  #40  
Old 10-17-2010, 03:00 PM
watro1 watro1 is offline
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Okay everyone. I have a half gallon of half and half that was about to go bad,(I went on vacation and didn't use it in time). Anywho, I couldn't throw it out so I mixed it, equal parts of water and the half and half. It tastes fine! It's not whole milk....tastes more like watered down half and half. Not bad at all, I'd drink it if that's all there was. I love milk so I was not the least little bit diappointed and I'd do it again. Try it for yourselves. I don't think I'd use it for cooking unless that's all I had but try it.....you'll like it!
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  #41  
Old 10-17-2010, 03:18 PM
falcotron falcotron is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astro View Post
Bachelor living leaves me no milk, and almost a full quart of Half & Half. Can I use this to make whole milk somehow if I blend it with water? I've got a blender.
Just out of curiosity, what kind of bachelor buys a quart of Half & Half in the first place?
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  #42  
Old 10-17-2010, 03:24 PM
beowulff beowulff is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falcotron View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by astro View Post
Bachelor living leaves me no milk, and almost a full quart of Half & Half. Can I use this to make whole milk somehow if I blend it with water? I've got a blender.
Just out of curiosity, what kind of bachelor buys a quart of Half & Half in the first place?
A bachelor who's preparing for the Zombie Apocalypse!
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  #43  
Old 10-18-2010, 07:43 AM
BigT BigT is offline
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Originally Posted by falcotron View Post
Just out of curiosity, what kind of bachelor buys a quart of Half & Half in the first place?
Maybe he drinks a lot of coffee?
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  #44  
Old 10-18-2010, 10:35 AM
rock party rock party is offline
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You can make cream (or half and half, depending on the ratio) by putting
unsalted butter in the blender with water and adding nonfat powered milk.
If done correctly, it tastes good and it'd be hard to tell the difference from
store bought cream or half and half.
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  #45  
Old 10-18-2010, 10:40 AM
Susanann Susanann is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bouv View Post
Take it from someone who has done it:
It don't work.
I dont mix half and half with water, but I mix regular milk with water all the time.

I buy regular milk ( 3.5?%) and add water, or ice, to it to get to 2%, and it tastes just fine, better than packaged 2% milk, and much better than skim milk, but with half the calories and half the fat of regular milk.

IF you want richer better tasting milk, get ultrapasturized but NOT homoginized milk, and even better tasting is raw milk that is neither pastruized nor homoginized.

Homoginizing and sunlight are 2 big reasons of what reduces the good taste.
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