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#1
08-10-1999, 02:10 PM
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People seem to feel as strongly about this as about religion and the Jill vs. Melin Celebrity Death-Match, so I hope I have opened a nice wriggly can of worms.
Shall I start? No, I don't believe cigarettes should be made illegal--that didn't work with booze in the '20s and it wouldn't work now. I do believe non-smokers should be protected from smokers, who sicken and kill more innocent people each year than heroin and coke addicts combined (a case CAN be made for alcoholics killing more people than smokers). I have seen in my own family what havoc second-hand smoke can cause healthwise, so please don't tell me it's not dangerous. But why the hell would anyone in their right mind smoke? I see supposedly normal intelligent people walking down the street puffing away and all I can think is, "are you INSANE?" Is it that people start when they're too young and stupid to know any better, and now they don't have the will power to quit? If nothing else, why would you hand over so much of your hard-earned cash to evil tobacco execs who will gladly dance on your grave? Huh? 
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#3
08-10-1999, 02:28 PM
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Yeah . . . dead.
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#4
08-10-1999, 02:32 PM
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Like nearly everyone who ever smoked, I started as a teen. 16, to be exact. Prior to that time, I had mocked and chided my friends and hassled my mother and other family members, telling them they were all gonna die with blackened lungs. Yet, because my friends were smoking, I felt left out, wanted to join in the "fun" of being a smoker.
I have a compulsive-addictive personality to begin with (I was already very overweight), so adding some new oral and chemical fixation was not a great idea. The first day i took up smoking, I smoked a pack and kept at it from that day forward. I have tried to quite several times. It's extremely difficult. It has been said by people with more scientific knowledge than I ever hope to have that nicotine is more powerfully addictive than heroin, and I believe it. I hate it. Except for one or two cigarettes in the morning, I mostly do not get any pelasure from it, yet find myself driven to do it all day long. I hate the smell, the cost, the ostracism I endure, the taste in my mouth, and most of all the constant fear that I'm killing myself. But still I do it. I feel compelled. It's comepletely fucked up. I'm hoping that I will find it slightly easier now that I live with my fiance and have had to adjust to not smoking inside. It has definitely cut my smoking in half. So hopefully I will soon be able to get rid of it altogether. I just have to remember that I am a drug addict and that by giving it up I am doing only good and there is nothing to feel badly about. Good luck to me, eh? ------------------ ************* We do precision guesswork
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#5
08-10-1999, 02:51 PM
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Thank you, Stoidela, you have explained more to me about smokers than I've ever heard before--and I really do hope you can quit someday. Get your fiance to help! Especially if you're ever planning to have kids.
You were too nice for the BBQ Pit, though--I was expecting to get jumped all over, and here you are being polite and informative! You're going to completely screw up my negative view of smokers if you're not careful . . .
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#6
08-10-1999, 03:00 PM
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I just quit a month ago (Zyban rules) after smoking since I was 19 and getting up to two packs a day.
I love tobacco. In fact, since I am of the "Eat well, stay fit, die anyway" school of thought, if Marlboro promised me a lifetime supply of smokes for free, I'd light up right now... But it costs too much so I quit. But as for what I liked about it: Just about everything. The feel of the warm cigarette in my hand and mouth. The smoke going into my lungs, held in for a moment, and exhaled, giving my mouth and nose the smell of sweet tobacco. I also loved the calming effect the nicotine offered me when stressed, and I really miss smoking after: a) Great sex b) A nice meal Yes, the cliches are true... Sure it was gonna kill me. And of course before I did it, I didn't get the appeal either. But after being addicted, I loved it, and though I swear I will do my best to not smoke again, it doesn't mean I don't miss it. Very much... ------------------ Brian O'Neill CMC International Records rockuniverse.com/cmc/cmc.html ICQ 35294890 AIM Scrabble1 Yahoo Messenger Brian_ONeill
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#7
08-10-1999, 03:00 PM
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Stoidela, quitting is hard. I finally quit when I got so disgusted with myself that I couldn't stand it anymore. The only advice that I can (or will) give you is to find a good support group. The long-term programs are best (mine went for 6 months). I found one at a local hospital by calling their physician referral number.
Being around people who'd been there was invaluable. They also helped me by making me plan ahead for high-stress situations (e.g., visits from my mother, who still smokes and who tried to sabotage my efforts). I made it, though!  A lot of people who've never smoked, and some who have, underestimate the difficulty. Besides the addictiveness (is that a word?), nicotine is an appetite suppressant and a central nervous system stimulant. It improves concentration, short-term memory, etc. It has other "positive" side effects, which I can't remember offhand (this is stuff I learned in my smoking-cessation support group, about 3 years ago, so I'm a little fuzzy on the details). Plus, there's the fact that cigarettes are very easy to get, and that smoking is "cool", at least at the beginning. This is what gets a lot of kids started (plus it's a way of being rebellious that PO's parents and teachers but doesn't immediately kill you). That wears off pretty soon, but by then, you're hooked. In short, it's really easy to start smoking, and really hard to stop. I have to say, though, it's such a relief not to "need" a cigarette all the time! ------------------ The Cat In The Hat
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#8
08-10-1999, 03:06 PM
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An excellent topic, and one in which I have a great deal of professional interest.
Stoidela is quite correct: almost all tobacco users initiate use as adolescents. We know very little about their initial tobacco use episodes, but ,having reviewed what we do know, my opinion is that tobacco users: use tobacco the first time to be part of a group are aided in their initial use by group members interpret the negative experience of a first use (i.e., taste, nausea, coughing) with the help of group members. For example, a novice might hack and cough and feel dizzy upon first smoking. The experienced user (who gave the novice the cigarette and the match with which to light it) might say "Yeah, I felt like that too -- but it goes away after a few cigs" As cigarette use becomes more regular, tolerance does develop to these nasty sensations. Unfortunately, with increasing tolerance comes increasing dependence. The dependent user smokes to avoid withdrawal more than for any meaningful/logical reason. So herein lies at least part of the answer to the original question. Smokers smoke to avoid the unpleasnt withdrawal they would feel if the didn't. If you were dependent, you'd probably do it to. If you are a heavy caffeine user and you would like to understand better why smokers smoke, abstain from all caffeine for 3-4 days. If you can do it, you may understand a little bit where Stoidela, and many smokers, is/are coming from. Stoidela: 1) Hang in there. Quitting is like learning how to ride a bike. Everyone falls, but eventually you do it and never forget. If you've cut down halfway due to a change in living arrangements, you are making solid progress. 2) If you don't mind sharing, and you can recall anything about your first smoking episode, what was it like? Were you alone or with smoking peers? Did you feel sick or feel nothing? Did you inhale on that first cigarette? The second? Enquiring minds want to know.
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#10
08-10-1999, 03:33 PM
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Flora:
Youa re more than welcome. I guess you don't personally know any smokers, though, or you'd know our deep dark secret: we are just folks. Just poor, pathetic, misguided folks who made a stupid decision when we were kids and now pay the price. We come in all flavors, just like any bunch of folks. The only thing that is the same about all of us is that we smoke. You may have come across some militant smokers in your life, smokers who, in my opinion, feel so frustrated and stupid for having taken up such an insane habit, can't just cop to it and feel the need to somehow defend or justify it. I've never been like that. The few times I quit, I learned immediately how offensive smoking is to those who don't...the smell is overpowering, so I understand completely why non-smokers don't like it around. (My fiance is always telling me after I come in from having a cig that I smell like I'm on fire.) Jerry Seinfeld, in his book, made a very amusing (of course) observation about smokers: perhaps it's a macho kind of thing, something like: "I have fire right in my face and it doesn't bother me at all!". Satan: You sound like a guy that is going to be smoking again before long. Let me recommend a book to you...shit, I'll have to go find it, it's something like "The easiest way to quit in the world" or soemthing. Bottom line to it is that the whole book is spent disabussing you of yoru false beliefs about your smoking, such as the idea that it calms you, which it doesn't. But I can't do it here, you really should read the book. It will help you transform your thinking about it so you will be able to STAY a non-smoker. Taking one drug to be rid of another doesn't sound like such a great idea to me. Cat: thanks for the encouragement. I am reading the book I suggested to Satan because I do think it is crucial to change my mindset about smoking in order to successfully rid myself of it, never need it, never want it. Eiss: I was at a party on the last day of school. It was an all-night pool party, and like most Hollywood kids in 1974, we were smoking pot and taking other drugs. Cigarettes were jsut part of the mix. I inhaled, I liked the look and feel of the cigarette in my hand. I used to love to watch my hand with a cigarette in it, isn't that ridiculous? I didn't feel sick, and I kept smoking all night. My lungs felt pretty thrashed the following day, but that iddn't stop me. Nowadays, it blows my mind to watch old TV shows and movies where it looks like EVERYONE smoked! The NEWSCASTERS smoked, for heaven's sake! And in old movies, two people are puffing away, and then do a lip-lock. YAR! I never do any major kissing without thorough tongue and toothbrushing and gargling first! (One of the many things I hate about my smoking: it totally blows any spontaneous smooching with my honey!) This is a good thing for me to be talking about...very inspriational.
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#11
08-10-1999, 03:36 PM
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I remember my first cigarette. My coolest friend, Debbie, taught me how to inhale. It took a few drags to get it right, but once I did I felt incredible--like I was finally cool too. I was addicted almost immediately. After a few months, I was even smoking between classes when I could get away with it. I loved the feeling of being a rebel that I got when I stood there with a cigarette in my hand.
Unfortunately, I was only 14 at the time and many of my peers were pretty impressed that I smoked. By the time I quit (almost 2 years ago at age 30) smoking hadn't been cool for many years, but I was addicted and I loved my cigarettes. I finally quit because I knew that I was actually an adult and I couldn't say, "Oh, I'll quit later." It really scared me to see older adults smoking and to think that would be me someday soon. To answer your question about why anyone smokes, I would have to say social reasons. The reason people keep smoking is addiction.
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#12
08-10-1999, 03:42 PM
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I agree that it's hard, and I am also an addictive personality. I also, like Satan, really did like smoking -- and I still miss it; expect to miss it. It's been six weeks and I am still using the meds -- and I recommend them. Zyban is a blessing, and it's not replacing one addiction with another because Zyban is not addictive... it's not even a very strong dose (it's a version of Welbutron, which is a mood stabilizer, but at doses that are about 1/3 what's considered theraputic.) The patch is also a help, giving me a little help with the physical aspects while I relearn the mental choices I make. The psychological elements are much harder than the physical, but both should be faced. I know I will not relapse, because there is no way that I want to go through what I've faced in the last month or so -- once was enough!
------------------ The reason gentlemen prefer blondes is that there are not enough redheads to go around.
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#13
08-10-1999, 04:14 PM
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OK, Eissclam, I've got a question for you seeing as you have a professional interest in smoking. How come I'm not addicted?
I had my first cigarette when I was around 10. I smoked on and off through high school. In early college, everybody I knew smoked, so I did, too. Later on, I was with a crowd that didn't smoke, and I didn't smoke. Now, I'm a recreational smoker. If I go out on a Friday or Saturday night, I'll have a few cigarettes. I inhale (only the ultra-lights, though.) I've never had any problems stopping, and even at my most-smokey stages I rarely averaged more than 2 a day. I just never wanted any more than that. If I do start smoking 2-3/day for more than a few days, they start hurting my lungs and stop tasting good, so I stop. It's never hard to just stop - I just no longer want them. By all accounts, at one point or another, I should have gotten addicted. Is it possible that for some physical reason nicotine is not addictive for me? Am I just lucky? I often smoke, but I can't remember the last time I actually finished a pack. They go bad before I'm half through the pack.
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#14
08-10-1999, 04:22 PM
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I'm with Satan too only I still smoke. I enjoy smoking. I have cut down because it's gotten so f***ing expensive so I don't take smoke breaks at work and I only smoke in the afternoons and evenings on weekends (I was never a big fan of the cigarette first thing in the morning thing.) I enjoy the taste of cigarettes and beer or cigarettes and coffee so when I'm sitting around listening to music and drinking a beer I want to smoke a cigarette. When I'm laying about on Sunday afternoon reading and drinking coffee I like to smoke. I like to smoke at the bar, I like to smoke when I drive, I enjoy a smoke after a meal and I LOVE sharing a smoke with my boyfriend after some steamy play.
I know it's bad for me and I suppose someday I will quit but I don't want to right now so I'm not going to. I don't feel guilty and powerless in the face of my addiciton. I just like it for now. At some point I'm sure I will become disgusted with it and quit but now it suits me just fine.
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#15
08-10-1999, 04:33 PM
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Why do people smoke crack?
Why do people eat junk food until their arteries are clogged? Why do people gamble away all their money? Why do people beat their kids? Why do people..... ------------------ "I think it would be a great idea" Mohandas Ghandi's answer when asked what he thought of Western civilization
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#16
08-10-1999, 04:39 PM
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I grew up in Canada and then went to univerity in the midwest (Go Buckeyes!) which
is the chewing tobacky capital of the world, or so I thought. Anyway I have since moved to Sweden where I learned that it is the chewing tobacky capital of the world. To the point, I have met a number of people that smoked but found it offensive to others, as well as to themselves, the smoke, the smell, etc. and have since started with chewing tobacky to give then their nicotine fix. I know that in the US the picture that is painted of a redneck with a mouth full of drooling brown spit is digusting, but in Sweden they put the chew in their upper lip (which does not create as much saliva) and therefore never, ever spit. In the northern parts of Sweden, even a majority of the beautiful blondes chew tobacco and it accepted socially, as far as the business world, etc. My point... If you have the craving for nicotine, but do not enjoy being an outcast and having to stand outside by yourself several times a day, try putting a Skoal Bandit in your upper lip. It's just an idea that most people have never thought of.
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#17
08-10-1999, 04:51 PM
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Not to change the subject, but I gotta ask -
Red Wings, I have veteran clients who have been in Korea, Thailand, and other Eastern countries, I also have a lot of military friends who have been stationed in those countries as well. Does your name, Red Wings, mean what I think it does? If so. . . . . EEeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwww  ------------------ >^,,^< KITTEN Coarse and violent nudity. Occasional language.
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#21
08-10-1999, 05:44 PM
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For the hell of it I would like to throw this information in, lung cancer has a 1.14 WHO health risk rating for smokers meaning that you are 14% more likely to get lung cancer if you smoke. Because of the relatively low number of lung cancer cases in general the WHO itself has admitted that by its guidelines this number is not significant. If you think the guidelines are screwed whole milk drinkers have a 1.40 WHO risk factor of lung cancer. Respond to that.
------------------ "The first thing a man will do for his ideals is lie." --Joseph A. Schempeter
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#23
08-10-1999, 05:50 PM
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Those statitstics things are a bitch.
While tis true that the majority of lung cancer victims are smokers, tis also true that the majority of smokers do NOT get lung cancer. However, most long term smokers develop one cancer, heart disease or emphysema. But then, so do most people. It's just a question of when and exactly which. The thing that gets me is what an utterly perverse act it is in the first place. What the hell were the native Americans thinking? (They started it!). Hey...let's set this plant on fire and inhale the noxious fumes! That sounds like a great idea! ------------------ ************* We do precision guesswork
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#24
08-10-1999, 06:27 PM
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It's pretty obvious to me that anyone who smokes wants to be doused with a pail of water. Or s/he wants his cigs loaded with explosive loads.
Seriously, my husband started smoking in basic training in the Air Force over 20 years ago. He said he did it because of several reasons... 1. Smokers got a smoke break, while non-smokers got to "patrol the area", which meant picking up trash and stuff. 2. Smoking was cool, and a lot of the senior NCOs did it and were sympathetic to smokers (see #1). 3. He missed me, and smoking comforted him. I think that he also started smoking because the adults in his family smoke. He won't admit this, of course...but even now, almost every single one of his parents' grandchildren smoke. My daughter doesn't, and the kid who has severe asthma doesn't. I flirted with smoking when I was a teen, because I thought that it looked cool and rebellious and independent. Fortunately, I didn't get hooked on it. My husband deeply regrets getting hooked. BTW, he and I are both 41, so we both knew the dangers. (as a poster, not as staff) ------------------ Lynn the Packrat
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#25
08-10-1999, 06:29 PM
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Athena:
One of the many things that we don't yet know about any addiction is what makes some people use, continue using, and then progress to regular use while others use and don't continue, or continue only sporadically (as you describe). People with your occasional use pattern are "chippers" and there are chippers who use tobacco, heroin, and (to a lesser extent) cocaine. (Of course, the vast majority of alcohol users could be called chippers, though for some reason we tend to call them social drinkers and be done with it.) You tobacco chippers are very much in the minority (I think something like 5% or less) and I sure would like to know what makes you that way. Some hypotheses include: chippers have a liver enzyme that breaks down nicotine especially quickly and a different pattern of nicotine receptors in the brain that makes nicotine less pleasurable. I wish I could answer your question with somthing more than "I wish I knew" but. . . I wish I knew. What are your thoughts? What do you get from smoking? When you inhale the first cigarette on a friday night do you feel anything from it? Eissclam
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#26
08-10-1999, 08:58 PM
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When I started smoking (both times) it was to relieve stress. I had some problems in my teenage years, and I couldn't find a way to deal with them. I asked one of my coworkers what he did for stress, (he was a laid-back person) and he said he smoked. I weighed the odds as best I could in that state, and decided that cigarettes would take longer to kill me than would another breakdown.
I later quit, when my situation started to improve. I joined the military and within a year and a half of service, I was smoking again.
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#27
08-10-1999, 09:18 PM
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I'm 42, and both my parents smoked like chimneys. Yet none of my three sisters nor I have ever lit up a cig. I think we got so much second hand smoke as children (during the winter months we would all be in the back seat of the station wagon, windows up against the cold, and the car so full of smoke it looked like a fog in there!), that we had had enough by the time we were adults.
I can't tell you why I smoke, since I don't, but I can sure tell you why I DON'T smoke. I'm too cheap, I'm too active to sit still that long and poke something in and out of my mouth (I think eating and sleeping are a waste of time, for goodness sakes!), and one look at my mother tethered to a 10' oxygen hose so she can breath due to her emphysema, that she is convinced is due to 55+ years of smoking, is enough to keep me from the demon weed.
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#29
08-10-1999, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Smoking calmed me. I don't care what it's supposed to do. Also, what gives you the idea that I will be smoking before too long - because I admit that I liked it and miss it? Honey, let me tell you - I'm not going to lie to you or myself about this. And just because you can't fathom how someone would enjoy it is irrelevant to someone who does enjoy it, and will miss it. I can't fathom how a guy wants to have sex with another guy, but I trust that some guys do. It is a proven fact (if you want to get into statistics) that women have a harder time quitting because they are addicted to the pshcyological aspects of smoking, whereas males tend to be addicted to the physical attractions behind tobacco. This might explain why you are doing something you hate, and hating that you are doing it, whereas I quit something I loved, but am thus far successful at it. Obviously, like any stats, this is not a 100% across the board thing, but from just knowing smokers reformed and otherwise in my life, it's true for the most part IMHO. Also, don't dis the Zyban. I never could have made it without it. It is non-intrusive, non-addictive as all it does is tell the part of your brain that loves nicotine that it really doesn't. Better than a lobotomy, no?
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#31
08-10-1999, 11:43 PM
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I object to people smoking in my air for the same reason I object to people puking on my plate of food, boomboxing in my vicinity, or advertising in my headspace. It's an invasion. It annoys nobody for me not to smoke.
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#32
08-11-1999, 06:36 AM
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While your at it, why don't you also ask: WHY DO PEOPLE OVER-EAT? WHY DO PEOPLE DRINK? WHY DO PEOPLE PROCRASTINATE? WHY IS IT THAT I WAS GIVEN THE FINGER WHEN DRIVING TO WORK THIS MORNING?
C'mon. People have bad habits that they know are bad. Don't tell me you have none. It seems you have cast the first stone...
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#33
08-11-1999, 08:11 AM
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threemae:
From the CDC {and thus for USA population}: Men who smoke increase their risk of death from lung cancer by more than 22 times and from bronchitis and emphysema by nearly 10 times. Women who smoke increase their risk of dying from lung cancer by nearly 12 times and the risk of dying from bronchitis and emphysema by more than 10 times. Smoking triples the risk of dying from heart disease among middle-aged men and women. The link is http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/osh/mortali.htm I don't know how to make it clickable on this message board (sorry). The original data are in: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Smoking-attributable mortality and years of potential life lost--United States, 1990. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report 1993;42(33):645-8. If you believe these statistics for the US (I do), they suggest that either the base rate of world lung cancer is much greater than in the US (hard to believe, but possible) OR the data you cited may have been misinterpreted. Can you please give a link or source for your WHO data? Once you do I'll examine it and get back to you. Eissclam
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#35
08-11-1999, 08:32 AM
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Murray, no one dies from second-hand finger-giving, or second-hand junk food. One of my main objections to smoking is not that it killed my father, but that it's killing my mother, who had to breathe his smoke for 30 years and has serious respiratory problems as a result. If anyone lights up anywhere in her vicinity, she winds up in Emergency. Thank goodness for today's non-smoking sections; she can finally eat in restaurants, take planes and trains! People say, "George Burns smoked, and he lived to be 100!" Yeah, but Gracie Allen died in her early 60s of heart disease . . .
ThreeMae, Stoidela did answer your post: yes, it's true that not everyone who smokes gets lung cancer. But almost no one who doesn't smoke gets it; and smokers also let themselves in for heart disease, premature wrinkles, other lung problems and other cancers--as well as causing SIDS and miscarriages in their own babies. I am keeping my fingers crossed for all of you trying to quit, I really hope you make it! The posts here have reinforced what I'd suspected--the best way to cut smoking is to double the price. That would encourage adults to quit, and keep a lot of kids from starting. I think those "Don't Smoke!" campaigns aimed at kids are worse than useless; if kids know adults don't want them smoking, just watch 'em run for the cigarettes! And actors (especially Winona Ryder) really should not be photographed or filmed constantly smoking--they are role models whether they like it or not, and should not be making it look "cool" to their impressionable young fans. Eissclam, are you a doctor, or do you just play one on TV?
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#36
08-11-1999, 09:04 AM
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Flora:
They call me "doctor" though I'm a scientist, not a physician. Cigarette withdrawal is one of my primary areas of study. Lately I've become particularly interested in why some kids who try tobacco (and most do) go on to use regularly and others try it and don't use (or use sporadically). I think understanding the details of initial tobacco use episodes, of which we currently know next to nothing, will be very important in reducing the costs associated with tobacco use over future generations. I've been keeping up with the Straight Dope ever since graduate school. Does anyone else think Uncle Cecil has lost some of his wit/sarcasm over the years? The heady days of parsecs full of flies and rhyming physics lessons ("Said Win, 'don't panic, no grease monkey I, but Quantum Mechanic') have given way to some pretty tame responses.
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#37
08-11-1999, 09:52 AM
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Eissclam asked:
Quote:
That's a good question. What *do* I get? A little bit of a buzz, since I'm not all that used to nicotine. It wakes me up. I like the taste of tobacco. I also like the "break" it gives me. I live in a town where smoking is banned in restaurants and bars, so generally what happens is a girlfriend and I go outside to yak and have a cigarette. What I don't like is that after 2-3 in one night, I know I'll wake up the next morning feeling like some small animal has crawled into my mouth and died. I also work out regularly, and I can definitely tell the difference when I've been smoking too much. To me, too much is more than 3 cigarettes 2 nights in a row. I go in cycles. I'll smoke a little for 3 months, then it just becomes unappealing to me and I stop for several months. I've stopped for years a time, simply because I wasn't around other people who smoked, and my ex husband was sure to give me crap about it and tell me I was going to become addicted. So, Eissclam, I believe that if I was going to become addicted, I would have already. Does your research agree to this? I sure would hate to wake up one morning addicted. Could that happen?
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#38
08-11-1999, 10:26 AM
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Athena, I'm neither a doctor nor a scientist (and keep up the good work, Eissclam!), but I'm gonna guess that you are one of the incredibly lucky freaks of nature who don't have whatever "addiction" gene that is. Some people can get hooked on a drug after one puff; you're just their direct opposite. I urge you to reproduce a lot, so we can populate the world with non-addicts!
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#39
08-11-1999, 10:43 AM
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Athena:
Thanks for the response. Generally speaking, less than 5 cigarettes/day should not lead to nicotine dependence in an adult. Thus, if this is the pattern that you have maintained for years, you are likely not to be currently dependent on nicotine. Furthermore, so long as you maintain the pattern, I doubt that you will become dependent. I glanced through my files for a reference for this statement (I am certain there is one) but couldn't find it. As a word of caution for others, though, I note that this pattern is exteremely rare and difficult for most users to maintain. You may be tempted to try it but I wish you wouldn't. Odds are you'll progress to more regular (and thus dangerous) use. BTW, Athena and other chippers: people are actively working on what makes you dependence-resistant. I picked this little tidbit off of an abstract in PubMed (Kassel et al., 1994). "The strongest finding indicated that sensation seeking best discriminates among the three groups, with nonsmokers clearly viewing themselves as more socially inhibited and less interested in pursuing sensations relative to both regular smokers and chippers, both of whom evidenced comparable scores. Regular smokers evidenced less self-control, or restraint, and appeared more impulsive and unable to resist temptation, compared to chippers and nonsmokers. Surprisingly, none of the groups could be differentiated on the basis of perceived stress, coping, or social support. Even among the personality variables, however, the effect sizes were relatively small, indicating that these differences in personality cannot fully account for chipper's resistance to dependence."
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#40
08-11-1999, 10:48 AM
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Oh, Flora, Flora...just when I was going to ask you to be Missus Ukulele, too.
I enjoy smoking cigarettes, they're one of the perfect examples of a perfect pleasure; exquisite, yet leaving one feeling unsatisfied. Thank you, Mr. Wilde. As for the health considerations, as the estimable Mr. Satan said, "Eat right, stay fit, die anyway." ------------------ Uke
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#41
08-11-1999, 11:33 AM
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Oh, Ike, Ike . . . I guess I will have to wait to marry you till you're on life support, then I can unhook you and inherit the vast Ukelele fortune . . .
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#42
08-11-1999, 11:47 AM
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There are people who are allergic to cigarette smoke, like myself, who feel the effects of second-hand smoke quickly and harshly...ie increased cigarette smoke-tasting phlegm (oh yay), migraine, and eventual vomiting-especially in closed up spaces like cars.
I certainly don't think I have the right to tell people whether or not they can smoke in their own home. I can even understand WHY they smoke as I do have my own bad habits (although I can't think of one that affects another person). I do, however, think I have a right to chime in on what they do in public since it directly affects other people.
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#43
08-11-1999, 11:57 AM
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We'd probably get hit by a bus during our honeymoon. That's how it is on this bitch of an earth.
Hope I'll have time for one last quick Camel straight whilst I'm flying through the air. ------------------ Uke
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#44
08-11-1999, 01:03 PM
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Well we seem to have conflicting statistics here on actual death rates and its important to note that just because a disease has been associated with smoking does not mean that all deaths were caused by smoking. Assuming the World Health Organization's statistics are correct, only 12.2% of all lung cancer deaths are smoking related (14/114). When saying that smokers die an average of seven years earlier than non-smokers do, the CDC is not necessarily examining the effects of smoking specifically, just the difference in life spans of the demographics. Smokers generally make less money than non-smokers do and poor people do not live as long as relatively richer people. In the example given comparing the increased rates of lung cancer from 1960 to 1990 increased by 400% while smoking decreased showing an inverse relationship between lung cancer deaths and smoking.
------------------ "The first thing a man will do for his ideals is lie." --Joseph A. Schempeter
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#45
08-11-1999, 02:07 PM
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ThreeMae, lung cancer scarcely existed before WWI, when cigarettes first became popular (as opposed to cigars, pipes and chawin' tebaccy). Why are you so intent on "proving" that cigarettes really aren't that harmful, when even the tobacco companies are now admitting that it is both addictive and potentially deadly?
I also second Topolino--my mother is severely asthmatic due to second-hand smoke, and she can die if exposed to a smoker. As far as smoking "in your own home," I have a downstairs neighbor who does just that--and as a result, she also smokes in MY home, which now smells like an ashtray! I sympathize with people like those above who are trying to quit, or those who honestly try to keep away from non-smokers, or those I am engaged to be married to, like Ike. But why should I have to put up with having poison blown into my face by a drug addict?
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#46
08-11-1999, 02:47 PM
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I must be blessed... I actually tried smoking and never liked it!
In my late teens, I smoked for 2-3 years, trying to be cool. I hated it! I could never get beyond the coughing and gasping stage. In my late 20's I tried to smoke a pipe-never liked it! The last thing was cigars-I tried all the top brands-I remember feeling very ill after smoking a cohiba. I guess I'm lucky-I tried for years to be a smoker, but never ever got to like the damned weed! Call me lucky!
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#47
08-11-1999, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
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#48
08-11-1999, 02:58 PM
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So is second hand smoke *always* that bad? Seems to me there are degrees, but I'm no expert. Setting aside those people who are legitimately allergic and experience immediate reactions, how likely is it that occasional exposure to cigarette smoke is going to really do anything to your lungs? Granted, if you live with a smoker, or have a job (bartending, waiting tables, etc.) that forces you to be around it all the time you have a legitimate complaint.
I thought I've read that a smoker who stops smoking can pretty much count on most of their lung tissue healing within a certain amount of smoke-free time. I would guess this is only true of people who don't actually have lung cancer. Given that, I have a hard time believing that occasional exposure to smoke such as one would get going out to dinner, or having a drink at a smoky bar, really causes much long-term damage.
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#49
08-11-1999, 03:19 PM
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Eissclam- you sound an awful lot like my brother-in-law. You wouldn't happen to be in Connecticut, eh?
I know that smoking is supposed to be addictive, but the first time (and only) that I tried it I got so sick that I threw up. I threw the pack away in disgust, wondering how ANYONE could pay money to do it! Unfortunately, my sister wasn't as lucky. She still smokes, and quit during her pregnancy only when she was hospitalized for pre-term labor (for two months). I have to wonder how her smoking affected her twin girls. Stoidela, good luck on quitting. My husband quit 15 years ago and he says he still craves it now and then, but once he gets a whiff of someone's second hand smoke it cures him of the urge. Prairie Rose ------------------ If you're not part of the solution you're just scumming up the bottom of the beaker.
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#50
08-11-1999, 08:17 PM
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Flora wrote:
Quote:
------------------ I'm not flying fast, just orbiting low.
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