Pennies and Cents

[chowder]

Here in the UK our currency is pounds and pence, we don't call our pennies cents.

USA currency is dollars and cents so why do you call your cents pennies

[aldiboronti]

I thought the Americans did call their cents pennies sometimes? (The song, Pennies From Heaven,k etc).

[chowder]

Originally Posted by aldiboronti

I thought the Americans did call their cents pennies sometimes? (The song, Pennies From Heaven,k etc).

Yes they do and I'm asking why

[GorillaMan]

It's a colloquialism from dating from at least 1889, apparently. Which only postdates the existence of the unit in America by a hundred years or so.

[Mangetout]

My WAG would be that 'penny' describes the physical properties of the actual coin - i.e. a circular piece of copper, whereas 'cent' describes one hundredth of a dollar - a notional unit of currency.

These are two slightly different things - it just happens that we use the same term ('penny') for both of them in England.

[chowder]

Originally Posted by GorillaMan

It's a colloquialism from dating from at least 1889, apparently. Which only postdates the existence of the unit in America by a hundred years or so.

Thanks. I often wondered about this

[Polycarp]

Borrowed from you Brits -- a "penny" is, after all, a very common referent for a small item of currency, in everything from Bible to proverbs to popular song. Both are, in the modern era, small copper-alloy coins. So "penny" became slang for "one-cent piece."

[WotNot]

Originally Posted by Mangetout

My WAG would be that 'penny' describes the physical properties of the actual coin - i.e. a circular piece of copper, whereas 'cent' describes one hundredth of a dollar - a notional unit of currency.

These are two slightly different things - it just happens that we use the same term ('penny') for both of them in England.

In the singular, yes, though we do differentiate when it comes to larger sums: twenty pence is not necessarily twenty pennies.

[chowder]

OK that's pennies sorted.

Now then why do you call your 5c and 10c coins nickels and dimes (or is it the other way around?)

I mean our coinage, since decimalisation in 1971, has no slang? for it.

10p is ten pence, 20p is twenty and so on.

Pre 1971 6d was a tanner, 1/0d was a bob, 5/0d was half a dollar, £1 was a quid

[Alive At Both Ends]

Originally Posted by chowder

Pre 1971 6d was a tanner, 1/0d was a bob, 5/0d was half a dollar, £1 was a quid

£1 still is a quid. And 2/6d was half a crown, though I don't suppose that counts as slang since the coin actually had "HALF CROWN" on it.

[Jonathan Chance]

Well, heck. A 'nickel' was originally made of, well, nickel.

And I'm pretty sure 'dime' has some latin root in 'tenth' or somesuch.

[aldiboronti]

Originally Posted by chowder

Yes they do and I'm asking why

D'oh!

Sorry, chowder, I misread your question. Normal service will now be resumed.

[chowder]

Originally Posted by Alive At Both Ends

£1 still is a quid. And 2/6d was half a crown, though I don't suppose that counts as slang since the coin actually had "HALF CROWN" on it.

Yes it did, I just 'membered.

What was a silver threepenny bit called?

[GorillaMan]

'Nickel' comes from the metal used to make the coins at one stage, and 'dime' is an official name (like half crown), meaning 'tenth'.

[Bryan Ekers]

Originally Posted by chowder

What was a silver threepenny bit called?

A Mack.

[chowder]

Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers

A Mack.

A little mac as opposed to a big 'un

I think, having trawled through my grey matter, it was called a "Joey" or a "Jimmy" or summat

[Mangetout]

Originally Posted by chowder

I mean our coinage, since decimalisation in 1971, has no slang? for it.

Given time, I'm sure it will.

Besides, it does have slang; a pound coin is commonly called a 'nug' or 'nugget' (as distinct from 'quid', which refers to the monetary unit). Can't think of any more examples, but I bet they're out there somewhere.

[Alive At Both Ends]

Originally Posted by chowder

I think, having trawled through my grey matter, it was called a "Joey" or a "Jimmy" or summat

A "Joey". But it was only the silver ones that were called that. The 12-sided brass ones didn't have a name that I recall.

[spingears]

Originally Posted by chowder

Here in the UK our currency is pounds and pence, we don't call our pennies cents.
USA currency is dollars and cents so why do you call your cents pennies

A penny is one percent of a dollar!
Hence one cent or cent for short.

[Mangetout]

Originally Posted by spingears

A penny is one percent of a dollar!
Hence one cent or cent for short.

Bwuh?

'Cent' is not short for 'percent'.

[Mangetout]

That is to say, 'cent' means 100; 'percent' means 'of 100'.

[Polycarp]

Centum = latin for hundred. I believe there's an adjective, something like centesimus, that means "hundredth."

Originally (and odds are samclem and I are the only two Dopers who know it), the $0.10 coin was a "disme" -- coined from decimus, one-tenth. The first, pattern pieces were called "dismes." The "-s-" infix was dropped within the first year, and all ten-cent pieces since then are "one dime." Unlike other current American coins except the cent and dollar, it's the official, legal name for the coin.

Until 1857, the U.S. issued a tiny silver coin called a "half dime," worth five cents in silver. Beginning with a pattern piece in 1856 and continuing to the present, this was replaced with a larger, baser-metal coin which was originally made of a mostly-nickel alloy. Hence "nickel" for the five-cent piece.

The quarter is of course a quarter dollar, $0.25. And the half-dollar needs no explanation.

Prior to 1933, we had gold coins: a tiny gold dollar, and four standard coins valued at $2.50, $5.00, $10.00, and $20.00 -- respectively the quarter eagle, half eagle, eagle, and double eagle. (There were also, for a while $3.00 and briefly $4.00 gold coins.)

A fair amount of British money slang comes from the period before decimalization (early 1970s) where a penny was 1/240 of a pound, 12 pennies to the shilling and 20 shillings to the pound. Not to mention that the Brits insist on stating prices in "guineas" -- which have not been coined since, I think, 1797.

[Johnny L.A.]

Originally Posted by Mangetout

That is to say, 'cent' means 100; 'percent' means 'of 100'.

From here (emphasis mine):

c.1400, from L. centum "hundred" (see hundred). M.E. meaning was "one hundred," but shifted to "hundredth part" under infl. of percent. Chosen in this sense in 1786 as name for U.S. currency unit by Continental Congress.

I'd always assumed that the U.S. 'cent' came from the French centime (which would have come from the Latin centum).

[GorillaMan]

Originally Posted by Polycarp

Not to mention that the Brits insist on stating prices in "guineas"

Huh? We do?

[Alive At Both Ends]

Originally Posted by Polycarp

Not to mention that the Brits insist on stating prices in "guineas" -- which have not been coined since, I think, 1797.

Guineas, as a unit of currency, went out with decimalisation in 1971. They were a bit of a scam anyway. One guinea was 21 shillings, equivalent to £1.05 in today's money. Expensive items were priced in guineas to make them look cheaper. A price of 200gns seemed less than £210 somehow.

[Mangetout]

Originally Posted by GorillaMan

Huh? We do?

Only in a few places; I believe horses are still bought and sold that way.

[mnemosyne]

I figure I might as well add a few more coin slang, this time from the Canadians, for those of you who might be curious. Often we will use the same terms as Americans, but we have a few of our own, too. I'll add French terms for those of you going to Québec one day! If I missed anything, I apologise!

1 cent = "cent", "penny" or, in French, "sou", "cents" but pronounces "senne"
5 cent = "nickel", French = "cinque cents" or "cinq sous"
10 cent = "dime", French = "dix cents" or "dix sous"
25 cent = "quarter" French "vingt-cinq cents/sous"
1 dollar = "loonie" (so named because it has a picture of a loon it. The Queen appears on the other side, as with all coins), sometimes called a "buck" (after the American term) or simply a "dollar". French "un dollar" or "une piastre"
2 dollar (it's a coin here) = "toonie", derived from "loonie" only now it's 2! French = "deux dollars/piastres".

Back in 1996, when the toonie was first distributed, there was a lot of talk about what Canadians would call it. One popular example (at least in my home town) was the Moonie. Why?

SPOILER:

because it had the Queen in front with a bear (bare) behind!

[Mangetout]

Originally Posted by Johnny L.A.

From here (emphasis mine):

I'd always assumed that the U.S. 'cent' came from the French centime (which would have come from the Latin centum).

I agree; however, Spingears appears to be suggesting 'cent' is a contraction of 'percent'.

[chowder]

Originally Posted by Polycarp

Centum = latin for hundred. I believe there's an adjective, something like centesimus, that means "hundredth."

Originally (and odds are samclem and I are the only two Dopers who know it), the $0.10 coin was a "disme" -- coined from decimus, one-tenth. The first, pattern pieces were called "dismes." The "-s-" infix was dropped within the first year, and all ten-cent pieces since then are "one dime." Unlike other current American coins except the cent and dollar, it's the official, legal name for the coin.

Until 1857, the U.S. issued a tiny silver coin called a "half dime," worth five cents in silver. Beginning with a pattern piece in 1856 and continuing to the present, this was replaced with a larger, baser-metal coin which was originally made of a mostly-nickel alloy. Hence "nickel" for the five-cent piece.

The quarter is of course a quarter dollar, $0.25. And the half-dollar needs no explanation.

Prior to 1933, we had gold coins: a tiny gold dollar, and four standard coins valued at $2.50, $5.00, $10.00, and $20.00 -- respectively the quarter eagle, half eagle, eagle, and double eagle. (There were also, for a while $3.00 and briefly $4.00 gold coins.)

A fair amount of British money slang comes from the period before decimalization (early 1970s) where a penny was 1/240 of a pound, 12 pennies to the shilling and 20 shillings to the pound. Not to mention that the Brits insist on stating prices in "guineas" -- which have not been coined since, I think, 1797.

To the best of my knowledge guineas are still coined every year.....a limited number maybe, but still........

Also as has been stated horses are sold by the guinea but I have a feeling that this is just an archaic thing.

[chowder]

I also believe we still issue "Groats" (4 pence) coins but for what reason I haven't the foggiest unless it has something to do with Maundy money which ER2 dishes out each year to deserving people or causes.

I've never bloody had any and I deserve some

[Chefguy]

Originally Posted by Polycarp

Originally (and odds are samclem and I are the only two Dopers who know it), the $0.10 coin was a "disme" -- coined from decimus, one-tenth.

Ah Pride, thy name is Polycarp.

[Gary T]

As to dime, from here.

"The name of the coin comes from the French disme (modern French spelling dîme), meaning "tithe" or "tenth part," from the Latin decima [pars]. This term appeared on early pattern coins, but was never used on any circulating dimes."

[Alive At Both Ends]

Originally Posted by chowder

To the best of my knowledge guineas are still coined every year.....a limited number maybe, but still........

I've never heard of this, and I used to collect coins. Do you have a cite?

The "groats" are Maundy money, but they aren't really groats as their face value is 4p, that is, 4 decimal pence, not 4d (old pence). There are also Maundy 3p pieces.

[Alive At Both Ends]

Oops, accidentally posted too soon.

There are four Maundy coins, for 4p, 3p, 2p and 1p. They are all made of silver and the 2p and 1p coins bear no resemblance to the ordinary 2p and 1p coins. You'll never see any of them in circulation.

[Xema]

Here's a link to photos of a 1792 half disme. About 1500 of these were struck.

[yabob]

The three cent silver piece was sometimes called a "trime". How often the term was actually used in everyday speech, I don't know. And I HAD heard of the "disme".

[Chronos]

My WAG would be that 'penny' describes the physical properties of the actual coin - i.e. a circular piece of copper, whereas 'cent' describes one hundredth of a dollar - a notional unit of currency.

Just wanted to say that this is correct. You might pick up a penny from the sidewalk, but a price would always be expressed in cents.

And "dime" (and yes, I knew "disme", too, though I probably learned it from samclem) is officially a unit of currency (the coin says "one dime" on it, not "ten cents"), but it's never actually used as such, only as the name of the coin. You'd never say something costs "two dimes", you'd say "twenty cents".

Officially, the US also has a monetary unit called the "mil", equal to one tenth of a cent, but I don't think there have ever been coins in that amount (there certainly aren't now), and they're only ever used in a few specialized contexts.

[OldGuy]

Originally Posted by Chronos

Officially, the US also has a monetary unit called the "mil", equal to one tenth of a cent, but I don't think there have ever been coins in that amount (there certainly aren't now), and they're only ever used in a few specialized contexts.

If we're keeping track I knew a dime was originally spelled disme and was an official unit, but .....

I'm mostly here to report that one-thousandth of a dollar is a mill (with 2 l's). A mil is one thousandth of an inch mostly used to measure thickness. See e.g.,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mill_(currency)

A mil is 1/1000 of the Hong Kong dollar though

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil

[Polycarp]

::: repents in sackcloth and ashes from being pelted with dismes by irate Dopers ::::

[Bookkeeper]

Originally Posted by mnemosyne

Back in 1996, when the toonie was first distributed, there was a lot of talk about what Canadians would call it. One popular example (at least in my home town) was the Moonie.

I tried to popularize "doubloon" (as it was a double loonie, ye see, arrrrh!), but it never caught on. There are advantages to being able to talk about a loonie-toonie fiscal policy, however

[robcaro]

I remember when, in the USA, a quarter was sometimes referred to as 2 bits. And 75¢, not a coin, was referred to as 6 bits.

[Auntbeast]

I'm just glad that my eternal question has finally been answered, then again, I could never remember to ask anyone that could tell me, or even remember to google it.

I am 38 years old and only just found out that a quid=1 pound. The english pence/quid/fiver/etc has always confused the heck out of me.

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by chowder

Pre 1971 6d was a tanner, 1/0d was a bob, 5/0d was half a dollar, £1 was a quid

Ok, you Americans, I'll ask for you.

I'm a local answer-guy, like so many Dopers, and I've never even heard of this counting. What the heck is the translation of this? What are the slang terms for a pound, so I don't make myself sound extra stupid? When is "bob"used?

[Alive At Both Ends]

Originally Posted by Cardinal

Ok, you Americans, I'll ask for you.

I'm a local answer-guy, like so many Dopers, and I've never even heard of this counting. What the heck is the translation of this? What are the slang terms for a pound, so I don't make myself sound extra stupid? When is "bob"used?

Take a look at this site which explains it far better than I could.

[garygnu]

Originally Posted by robcaro

I remember when, in the USA, a quarter was sometimes referred to as 2 bits. And 75¢, not a coin, was referred to as 6 bits.

This comes from dubloons or whatever being devided into 8 pieces (hence "pieces of eight). Call the pieces "bits" and you get one quarter made up of two bits.
The term is especially useful for raising your auction bid on your girl's picnic basket.

[Chronos]

Oh, and if Canada ever gets a $5 coin, I firmly believe that they should put an albatross on it.

Because then, it could be a goonie.

[AskNott]

I haven't heard anyone speak of "two bits" for a quarter dollar for a long time. However, my high school cheerleaders were fond of this cheer:

"Two bits, four bits, six bits, a dollar

All for the (your team) stand up and holler!"

Your fans stand up and make a lot of noise, and you hope to show they outnumber the other team's fans. Sometimes, both teams' fans would belt out a rondo of "Two Bits," until everybody got winded.

[samclem]

Let me preface my answer to the OP with "this is just my considered opinion."

Prior to the US Mint starting to make coins in 1793, the citizens of the US used whatever coins were around. Mostly Spanish silver coins, probably mostly English copper coins.

I'll be willing to wager that the general term for a copper "penny," while derived from the English coins, was merely continued out of habit by the US citizens, even when we began to make(in small quantities at first) a "cent" copper coin. The term "cent" has never been used much in American Speech except in phrases such as "not one red cent" etc. Cent was always used in formal speech. But I'll wager(again) that "penny" was the everyday term that we used and still use.

As far as nickels being made out of nickel--mostly wrong. Since the first one in 1866, they are 75% copper.

[Spectre of Pithecanthropus]

Originally Posted by chowder

OK that's pennies sorted.

Now then why do you call your 5c and 10c coins nickels and dimes (or is it the other way around?)

Also, after a cursory scanning, I didn't see mentioned the fact that 'dime' is also a legal unit of account, which is why it's "one dime" on the coin. I suspect that if I wished, I could pay somebody with a check made out in dimes rather than dollars, just moving the decimal point in the amount one place to the right.

It does seem odd to have such a small unit, but then, of course until fifty or so years ago prices were a fraction of what they are now, and there were many things you could buy with a dime or two.

One thing that doesn't seem to have happened much here is everyday reckoning of prices in dimes, like the way you used to do with shillings. I know that before decimalization, one might say that something cost 30 shillings rather than a pound and a half.

[GorillaMan]

Originally Posted by Cardinal

I'm a local answer-guy, like so many Dopers, and I've never even heard of this counting. What the heck is the translation of this? What are the slang terms for a pound, so I don't make myself sound extra stupid? When is "bob"used?

Pre-1971, British currency had three units: pounds, shillings and pence. 20 shillings in a pound, 12 pence in a shilling. The shorthand for writing prices was L/S/D, the abbreviations coming from Latin. Most items would only be priced in shillings and pence, and so 3/7 would mean 'three shillings seven pence'. 4/- meant four shillings exactly, and -/8 or 8d would mean eight pence.

'Bob' was slang for 'shilling', so something could cost 'four bob', for instance. As the shilling no longer exists, the slang no longer has a precise meaning, but it still exists in more general ways: if something's "worth a few bob", then you should think about putting on eBay.

Re. 'half dollar' for a half-crown...googling it suggests that it was related to the near-1:1 values of the US$ and 5-shilling crown for a long period after WW2. WAG - perhaps the slang originated from American servicemen during the war?