Frappes vs. Milkshakes

[Freca]

Does anyone know the difference between frappes and milkshakes? In my home region (coastal Massachusetts) the distinction is important, because frappes contain ice cream but milkshakes are only milk plus flavoring, blended together. But people I meet from other places claim that milkshakes do contain ice cream, and the two words are synonyms. Can anyone say anything authoritative about this?

[Ukulele Ike]

A frappe (pronounced FRAPP, like a Don Martin fart) only exists as such in Massachusetts. Everyplace else in the lower 48 calls 'em milkshakes, even Connecticut, Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont.

Wait...in Rhode Island, they call milkshakes "cabinets." Well, we'll just ignore Rhode Island; everyone else does. "The Delaware of New England," we like to call it.

A frappe, however (pronounced (fra-PAY), is, according to the second edition of the FOOD LOVER'S COMPANION (Barron's), "1. A mixture made of fruit juice or other flavored liquid that has been frozen to a slushy consistency. It can be sweet or savory, and served as a drink, appetizer, or dessert. 2. An after-dinner drink of liqueur poured over shaved or crushed ice."

[RealityChuck]

It depends on your region. In New York City, a milkshake has ice cream in it. What you call a "milkshake" is called an "egg cream" (no, it doesn't have any eggs in it).

In some places, "frappe" and "milkshake" are synonyms. Where I was growing up, the word "frappe" was never used; a milkshake had ice cream in it. There are probably other variations and other names.

[Ukulele Ike]

No...a New York City egg cream involves flavored syrup, cold milk, and SELTZER.

A Massachusetts "milkshake" sounds to me like a glass of chocolate milk.

[Freca]

Following up on Ike's point that a Massachusetts milkshake just sounds like chocolate milk: well, it's not the same thing. Chocolate milk is milk, with flavoring (powder or syrup), stirred with a spoon. A milkshake is milk, with flavoring (typically syrup, not powder), frothed in a blender. Finally, a frappe is milk + ice cream, sometimes with flavored syrup but other times depending on the flavor of the ice cream alone, mixed in a blender or better yet and industrial-strength frappe maker at the local ice cream stand.

It seems like in other regions these distinctions are glossed over, but I find them quite useful. I'm just sorry to hear that they're so regional. I guess the coastal massachusetts terms are like eskimo words for snow: cold milk-based drinks are so much a part of our lives that we need a lot of words for them.

Also interesting: a NYC egg-cream, which does include seltzer, sounds much like an ice-cream soda in common parlance, but without the ice cream.

[Gravity]

My grandmother, a native Vermonter, had the same distinctions between a milk shake and a frappe that you have, Freca. ...and she'd never heard of an egg cream. I think that (other than the egg cream part) it may be another case of a change in usage, though maybe only regionally. The frappe as we know it is probally just a new england thing, maybe french-canadian (it means 'partially frozen' IIRC.)

K.

[BobT]

My life was saved by a frappe in Rumford, Maine. So I know they call them frappes in that part of the world.

I was driving through Western Maine on a vacation and I had left motel after having no breakfast and just having a cup of coffee. When I got to Rumford, my blood sugar dropped sharply and I started to feel faint. Fortunately, I was in Rumford and near a diner. I grabbed a seat on the corner, held on with both hands and ordered just about everything on the menu. The waitress told me that the frappe could be fixed in a minute or so, while my burger would take 10 minutes.

I first asked for a shake, then the waitress asked, "Do you want ice cream in that?" I said yes and she told me (in a Maine accent), "We call those frappes here."

I have since learned to never go on a long drive without some fruit in the car.

[geekgurl]

My understanding is that a frappe is primarily made with crushed ice, iced water, flavouring and a little ice cream to give it the creamy feel. This is how they are made in parts of Europe...

[waterj2]

In Boston, at the corner drugstore near my high school, they sell frappes, milkshakes, and egg creams. I used to always have a vanilla frappe after track practice there. If someone asked for a milkshake, it was pretty much assumed that they were from out of town, and the difference was explained to them. I did see someone actually get one once. I don't think anyone ever ordered an egg cream that I saw.

Often, the sort of place that this place was, kinda like a drugstore, but without the drugs, and with a counter with stools and a soda fountain, etc. is often known as a spa. I've never figured out the origin of the term, and never seen it used anywhere else. Oh, and those chocolate sprinkles on ice cream are known as jimmies.

[MikeG]

A frappé as I know it is what I had in Greece: a coffee drink using Nescafe, sugar, sweetened condensed milk and ice.
Using a special little sealed cup or frother, you whip a tablespoon or so of Nes and sugar along with _just_ enough water to moisten the mix. This is poured over ice in a tall glass and topped off with (depending on your preferences,the sweetened milk or water or a combination thereof). It is served w/ a glass of ice water and is he perfect companion to sitting on the plaka watching the scenery as the late September sun slants through the olive trees and the person you love is sitting next to you....

sorry for the auto hijack!

These are directly responsible for my growing to enjoy the taste of coffee! I still don't care for watered down "regular" coffee, but give me a triple espresso or a super strong Greek(Turkish) coffee and a piece of baklava-ohhhhhhhh yes

[nineiron]

Well, I live in Massachusetts too (and have my whole life), and to us around here, a milkshake equals ice cream, milk, and flavoring, mixed in a blender or mixer. Of course, I'm in the western part of the state, near Springfield, not in the coastal region, like the person in the previous post. Never in my life have I heard anyone around here utter the word "frappe." Now, of course, there's the Fribble, which is a whole different animal. Oh, how I love Fribbles (from Friendly's in case you didn't know...)

[Flymaster]

In all my life as a resident of Beverly, MA, I've never ordered, or seen ordered, a milkshake. I've seen people try, but the frappe/shake difference was explained, and they quickly switched. All the ice cream stands around here have both on the menu, though. Dunno why they'd bother with the milkshake.

[Kat]

Hey, where do malts fit into all this? My dad used to make them at home, but I don't remember what all he used, besides ice cream and malt stuff.

[chique]

Uhhh...here in MN a milkshake is ice cream (flavored or not) and enough milk to make the blender blend. Or ice cream, some sort of flavored syrup, and enough milk.

No frappes here that I know of, or egg creams, for that matter.

Another popular ice cream drink is the float, which is the pop of your choice with a scoop or two of vanilla ice cream. I had a sparkling apple cider float at the state fair a while back - oh, my was that good

[sailor]

I believe "Frappe" means crushed (hit) in French and it originally referred to a drink poured over crushed ice.

[Mousseduck]

Where I come from, a milkshake is syrup, icecream and milk blended together. A frappe is liqueur poured over crushed ice (said ice being put in a tea towel and bashed on a bar a few times. This is in silver service restaurants.) Icecream floating around in soft drink is called a spider. How a connection between nasty bitey things and a drink was made, I have no idea.
BTW, milk and flavouring is either flavoured milk (pretty obvious, huh?) or a really really bad milkshake made by a tight cafe.

[Ukulele Ike]

{singing in a Jonathan Richman voice}

Dum de dum de dum dum de dum dAYYYYYY-AYYYY
OH, I love New England!

Okay...so a Milkshake is a Frappe ONLY in coastal Massachusetts, Vermont, and inland Maine, nowhere else in the country. In Western Mass it's a Milkshake again. Can someone from New Hampshire weigh in?

An Egg Cream can be found ONLY in the five boroughs of New York City. Or maybe only Manhattan, Brooklyn, and the Bronx. I don't think I've ever seen one in Queens or Staten Island.

We had ice cream parlors/sandwich shops in New Haven, Connecticut, called "Spas," too. It seems like an early 20th-century New England thing. The Spa I went to looked like it had stopped evolving in 1932. You could have them put an egg in your Milkshake if you wanted, to keep your pelt shiny.

A Spider? What the hell? This sounds to me like a Root Beer Float. What part of the world are you in, MousseDuck?

[waterj2]

Ike, I mentioned that I have seen egg creams for sale in Boston. Maybe Sparr's Drugstore is the exception, rather than the rule, but they definately had it last I checked (granted, that was 1996).

[Freca]

Ukulele Ike summed it up nicely. The frappe-shake distinction seems to be located roughly around those few areas. The coastal vs. western Massachusetts localization is especially interesting to me, as my experience growing up in Beverly prompted this thread (Hi, Flymaster). I also have seen many times the person who orders a shake, then is kindly informed by the ice-cream girl or counter guy that a shake doesn't have ice cream, "so would you like a frappe instead?"

Now here's the really weird thing: doesn't this geographical region overlap the same region where we distinguish between jimmies and colored sprinkles? The larger question is, why do we make these fine ice-cream-related distinctions, especially given that we live in a place that's cold almost half the year?

[Gravity]

The Ben&Jerry's scoop shops offer egg creams. That's where I had my first one (it was the least expensive drink on the menu and I was broke.) YUM. I really love egg creams. And Malteds. And Ice Cream. And Frappes. Milkshakes too. Yum!

K.

[GaryM]

Used to get egg creams all the time in the Jackson Heights/Elmhurst area of queens where I grew up in the 50s-60s.

Anyone know if the Lemon Ice King of Corona is still around?

[Ukulele Ike]

waterj2 and Gravity:

All right, the egg cream is slowly seeping out of the Metropolis and into the national consciousness. I'm really surprised to hear that it's been around Boston for a while, though...it's always been a kind of regional joke: out-of-towner hits the city and is grossed out by the name "egg cream" without knowing what's in it...conversely, New Yorker travels to Assboink, Mississippi, orders up an egg cream at the local beanery, and is hanged from a lamppost by outraged yokels.

This discussion will probably soon deteriorate to the level of Phosphates. These are soda-fountain mixtures of flavored syrup and seltzer, served approximately within the Cleveland-Detroit-Chicago triangle.

[RickG]

Originally posted by Freca
Now here's the really weird thing: doesn't this geographical region overlap the same region where we distinguish between jimmies and colored sprinkles?

I think the use of the word "jimmies" must be somewhat broader than the use of frappe. I was born in Philadelphia, and we always called them jimmies. And that's how you ordered them in ice cream stores, so I don't think it was an artifact of my maternal grandmother being born in Boston (she moved to Phila when she was very young, anyway).

Rick

[missbunny]

Re: egg creams

I used to work in a restaurant in southeastern CT in 1980 or 1981 and we served egg creams. So they have been around a lot of places for a long time.

Okay, maybe they weren't real egg creams ...

[Flymaster]

Originally posted by Freca
my experience growing up in Beverly prompted this thread (Hi, Flymaster). I also have seen many times the person who orders a shake, then is kindly informed by the ice-cream girl or counter guy that a shake doesn't have ice cream, "so would you like a frappe instead?"

So where are you getting your frappes? Brambles, Dick and Junes, perhaps Cherry Hill?

BTW, the things that come out of the machine at Nick's are rightly called "shakes." A frappe, or, for that matter, a milkshake, requires the interference of a blender. Fast food shakes are just "shakes."

And yes, I realize that only I and Freca will understand the Nick's reference. I also don't care.

[Freca]

Flymaster understands perfectly. In coastal Mass (which seems to be the only place where people use these terms correctly!) the stuff you get out of those big machines at fast food places (and local joints like Nick's) are properly called shakes, even though consistency-wise they are more similar to frappes, because they contain ice-milk and glutin, not ice cream. That shows you how well the distinction is understood by the local general public.

Flymaster also made me think about another Beverly treasure, the Nick's roast beef sandwich. I wonder why we simply call that "beef" when it is a totally different (and vastly superior) substance compared to the stuff other restaurants serve as so-called "beef."

But that's another thread.

[Capoeirista]

Whoo, resurrecting a thread from the dead. Anyway, 11 years later, here's an opinion from New Hampshire.

I'm actually a Philadelphia native myself (hooray for jimmies!), but my mom's from the Lakes Region in central New Hampshire and we've been going back up there frequently for years. Diners up there often have both milkshakes and frappes on the menu, and the difference was explained to me as milkshakes = no ice cream, frappes = with ice cream. Same as coastal Mass, Maine, and Vermont.

I recently had someone from Colorado tell me that I had it backwards, though. She said milkshakes were made with ice cream and frappes were made with ice. And we call ourselves united states...

[Harmonious Discord]

Wisconsin

A milk shake is ice cream or frozen custard with some milk added to blend a thick drinkable ice cream with flavoring added including real fruit like strawberries. A malt is the same with malt powder added. A Frappe is some iced foamy coffee drink they introduced in the last couple decades.

[Leo Bloom]

Originally Posted by sailor

I believe "Frappe" means crushed (hit) in French and it originally referred to a drink poured over crushed ice.

::side note:: Don't the French call a nuke war, which they are capable of, Le Grand Frappe? I could never really understand, sort of, that they would name something like that a milkshake. Is it used wittily, or as a light euphemism, the way we would say "The Big One"?::/side note::

[TriPolar]

Originally Posted by Ukulele Ike

Wait...in Rhode Island, they call milkshakes "cabinets." Well, we'll just ignore Rhode Island; everyone else does. "The Delaware of New England," we like to call it.

In Rhode Island, the 'Unit of Measurement' state, a milkshake used to be just milk mixed with flavoring. Like chocolate milk or Coffee Milk (what, they don't have Coffee Milk in your large state?). A cabinet was a milkshake. Named so because some creamery kept their mixer in a wooden cabinet (that is according to someone unknown, which is considered the highest authority here in RI).

That's the way it was in the good old days. Now a milkshake is a milkshake, and a cabinet is also a milkshake, and a frappe is something they sell in Mass, that looks and tastes like a milkshake, but can't be because it's not called a milkshake or a cabinet.

Anyway, there's nothing like a good Coffee Cabinet to wash down the Dynamites.

[Colibri]

Moving to Cafe Society.

Note that the thread is more than 10 years old.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator

[Savannah]

Originally Posted by Ukulele Ike

An Egg Cream can be found ONLY in the five boroughs of New York City. Or maybe only Manhattan, Brooklyn, and the Bronx. I don't think I've ever seen one in Queens or Staten Island.

And in Victoria, BC at Pagliacci's. I really like them, and have made them at home, too. Not too sweet, but sweet. Refreshing. Yum.

[aceplace57]

What do you call a Milkshake made with either Coke or Rootbeer?

It's ice cream, Coke, milk (optional) put in a milkshake mixer.

We have several regional names here (black cow) . Sonic sells them as a "Frosted Coke".
I bet the names vary all over the country.

[thirdwarning]

Originally Posted by aceplace57

What do you call a Milkshake made with either Coke or Rootbeer?

It's ice cream, Coke, milk (optional) put in a milkshake mixer.

We have several regional names here (black cow) . Sonic sells them as a "Frosted Coke".
I bet the names vary all over the country.

As I recall, that's a frost. Essentially a float that's been mixed/shaken/blended together, right? At least that's what they were around here in (semi)northern Illinois. I haven't seen one on a menu for years, though.

[Skammer]

I grew up in Massachusetts in the 70s and 80s. Although places like Friendly's would call their ice cream drinks "frappes," everyone I ever knew just called them milkshakes. Probably due to the influence of McDonalds and the like. I wonder just how old the OP is/was.

[aceplace57]

That's it. I still buy several a year from Sonic. I prefer them over a chocolate shake.

Originally Posted by thirdwarning

As I recall, that's a frost. Essentially a float that's been mixed/shaken/blended together, right? At least that's what they were around here in (semi)northern Illinois. I haven't seen one on a menu for years, though.

[BrotherCadfael]

Originally Posted by Ukulele Ike

Okay...so a Milkshake is a Frappe ONLY in coastal Massachusetts, Vermont, and inland Maine, nowhere else in the country.

A milkshake is a milkshake in Vermont, except to my Boston-born wife...

[Autolycus]

Originally Posted by Freca

Can anyone say anything authoritative about this?

By whose authority?

[BrainGlutton]

I know they call them frappes in NYC, or did in the 1930s -- I read The City Boy, by Herman Wouk, and the "frappe" was Herbie's favorite treat.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by Autolycus

By whose authority?

I guess we might have petition for an audience with the Dairy Queen.

[Wile E]

The important question is does your milkshake bring all the boys to the yard?

[madrabbitwoman]

Aussie here: We have milkshakes (milk, floavouring and a scoop or two of ice-cream) which you can drink easily. Thickshakes (some milk, flavouring and lots of ice-cream) which require a large straw and some effort to drink.
The frappes I have had involved crushed ice, fruit and minimal if any milk - like this http://www.taste.com.au/recipes/2058...d+apple+frappe. I imagine the chocolate or coffee types would likely have some milk but I consider them a crushed ice drink rather than a milk drink.

[BigT]

I've always thought Frappes had to be made with coffee.

And the difference between whether they use real ice cream or not is that the former is called a milkshake, while the latter is just a shake.

[BeckySusie]

I've lived in NJ my whole life but grew up going to Maine every summer because my grandma's from Maine. While NJ (or, to the rest of the world, the NY city area) milkshakes are -on paper- the same as frappes, frappes are IMO thicker & SOOO much better. I've never had a "milkshake" in Maine because if i had the opportunity to have a frappe there was no reason to order any other drink. While NJ milkshakes seem to be made with the same ingredients, the result is different, so I think that they must use different proportions.

Btw, I've had frappes -not milkshakes- in Maine, NH, & Mass (long hot drives up to Maine always meant stopping throughout New England). Not sure on the chocolate, but I always order strawberry & it (almost) always has fruit in it (whether it's fruit in the icecream or added later, I don't know). I've also had a mixed berry frappe that seemed to be vanilla icecream with fresh berries added in (delicious!).

[Lynn Bodoni]

The way I always understood it, milkshakes are milk plus ice cream, and sometimes with other flavoring. For instance, a vanilla shake is made with plain milk plus vanilla ice cream, and it might have additional vanilla flavoring. Chocolate shakes are made with chocolate ice cream and milk. Black and whites are made with chocolate ice cream and regular milk, and double chocolate is made with chocolate milk as well as ice cream. Additional chocolate flavoring might or might not be added. Strawberry shakes require strawberry ice cream, regular milk, and possibly fresh strawberries for garnish and/or in the mix, and again possibly additional strawberry flavoring. ALL milkshakes require a blender.

I remember frappes from at least the 1970s. Blender handbooks usually included a few frappe recipes for your new blender. Frappes might or might not include milk or milk products, and always include ice. Jamba Juice sells what I consider frappes. Again, a blender is essential because of the ice. Smoothies are what I consider to be frappes.

Part of the problem is that different regions use different terminologies, as evidenced by the replies. But the way *I* use the words is the true and right way!

[doreen]

Originally Posted by Lynn Bodoni

Black and whites are made with chocolate ice cream and regular milk, and double chocolate is made with chocolate milk as well as ice cream.

In the NYC area, all chocolate/vanilla shakes have extra flavoring - a black-and-white shake is vanilla ice cream, chocolate syrup and milk. A chocolate shake is chocolate ice cream, chocolate syrup and milk and a vanilla shake is vanilla ice cream, vanilla syrup ( or extract) and milk.

[Ambivalid]

Originally Posted by BigT

I've always thought Frappes had to be made with coffee.

And the difference between whether they use real ice cream or not is that the former is called a milkshake, while the latter is just a shake.

Yes, I did too. And I am surprised that more people didn't post this sentiment.

[elfkin477]

Originally Posted by Lynn Bodoni

Black and whites are made with chocolate ice cream and regular milk, and double chocolate is made with chocolate milk as well as ice cream.

No, they're made with chocolate ice cream and vanilla milk. You use Eclipse vanilla syrup to make milk vanilla. I can't believe how much that site is asking for it, because a bottle goes for less than $5 around here.

[Bryan Ekers]

Originally Posted by Freca

Does anyone know the difference between frappes and milkshakes?

About three bucks.

[fumster]

Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers

About three bucks.

Same as in town.