Ask the Doper Who Lived in the Boonies

In this thread, ivylass asked for a thread on Ask the Doper who lives out in the boonies. So here it is. Other inhabitants, or former inhabitants, of the boonies, feel free to chime in. I didn’t live nearly as far out as some of you. For example, I never required an airplane to get to the doctor and snow was never an issue.

My first response was BWA HAHAHAHA! Garbage pickup? HAHAHAHA! Ahem. Garbage pickup would be the pickup you put your garbage in to take to the dump. Seriously though, Going to the Dump was an annual or biannual undertaking. Most people have a compost pile (or a hillside or small canyon, if you are waaayyy out in the boonies), chickens or other livestock to toss their organic materials in or to. Then you have the burn barrel pile, where you stack all the flammable items (woe to the one who forgets and puts the hairspray can in the bathroom trash. Make big boom! Complete with shrapnel!) and wait for a suitable burn day. Or night, if you are desperate, and you live too close to the Dept of Forestry firehouse. There’s nothing quite like the aroma of burning feminine sanitary products wafting over from the neighbor on an evening breeze. <gag> Then you have your recyclables: paper (you only burn the stuff that’s too nasty to recycle, like bathroom trash), bottles, cans (aluminum cans make excellent target practice, but they can’t be recycled after they’ve been shot up, they have to go to the dump), plastics, etc. Then your Goodwill/Salvation Army stuff that was too good to toss, but you didn’t want anymore. My mom made a Goodwill run about every 5 years. Everything else goes to the dump. Just about everyone has a trailer to use to take garbage to the dump and if you have extra space, you call around and see if anybody else wants to use your extra space. Dump fees are cheaper that way. People who don’t have garbage pickup get reduced fees at the dump, so long as they only show up twice a year. Where did people store all their garbage until dump day or burn day? That’s what barns are for.

As far as power went, I had an enormous propane tank that would last the winter, assuming I remembered to get them to come out before the rains started. The water heater, stove and refrigerator all ran on propane. For lighting, I used white gas Coleman laterns. I was too broke to afford to run a generator, but my neighbors all had them, along with various sizes of solar cells. You have not lived until you have defrosted a 50 year old propane refrigerator. The process takes roughly 16 hours, at which point defrosting stops and it starts freezing again. The upside is that it is solid metal, and can be attacked with whatever sharp objects you feel necessary (my neighbor and I both agreed that napalm would not be excessive and probably wouldn’t even leave a mark. Or finish defrosting it, either.) Unlike when I lived on the grid in the mountains, the power being out for days or weeks at a time had no effect on me. :smiley:

I had neighbors with cisterns and handle water pumps in the kitchen, but I had running water from a well. I had an outhouse, but it was my half bath. :stuck_out_tongue: I did have indoor plumbing, with a toilet and everything. The biggest problem out there was if your gasoline provider mixed up your gas tank with your cistern. Yes, we had gasoline delivered, too, but I think they put a stop to that a while ago, with certain exceptions. It is, after all 25 miles from the nearest gas station south and 40 miles north and we had lots of tourists coming through.

Getting phone service, and then private phone service - no more party line! was quite exciting. Ooh, and then came the day when households could have multiple lines. Wow! That was, let’s see, 1996. Over the past couple of years, they started installing cell phone towers, but there are still plenty of dead zones out there, and cell phone providers in that area make that perfectly clear. Actually, that’s one of the ways they get leases for their towers. In fact, my grandfather had one installed in his back yard.

I can replace a Coleman lantern wick in the dark, a skill I am grateful that I no longer have any use for. I can dig a car out of axle deep mud using firewood and my bare hands. I know what rain on a tin roof sounds like, as well as the comfortable clanking of a propane water heater hard at work. I’ve lived in a real log cabin, built by my great-grandfather. I know that the best place to build your closet in the mountains is around the water heater, otherwise your shoes and clothes will all have a lovely patina of mildew come spring. And finally, when I was growing up, our lawn mower looked like this.

I remember very well the envy of driving home through the campgrounds, past luxury RVs complete with satellite TVs, and those same people later strolling past my house to gawk at me. That’s the downside to living in what is essentially a private park. The tourists seem to think that your home is there for their amusement. It’s even worse when they decide to take a shit in your front yard. Yes, that happened. More than once. More times than I can count, actually.

FTR, I’ve lived in the Big City for almost 8 years now, but I still sometimes sort trash as if I didn’t have have weekly garbage pickup, think it’s incredibly cool to flip a switch and have the lights come on, figure out which appliances are plugged in by sound alone, and often can’t be bothered to turn the lights on at night. If you live without electricity for long enough you, too, can become annoyed by the humming of the powerlines and exasperated by all of the needless light pollution your neighbors put out.

Camping? I don’t do camping. I’ve done my share already. Roughing it does not amuse me. I slept in a sleeping bag from 7th grade until I was a junior in high school. I have discovered fungi the size of salad plates growing in my bathroom and have thrilled to the sound of woodrats in the walls, not mention finding a woodrat hindquarter, tail still attached, in the kitchen, a gift from one of my cats. Woodrats are big and their tails are scaly. :shudder:

Anything I’ve forgotten?

Wow - you make it sound so romantic! :wink:
Just so I can get my head around it, could you narrow down where you lived and what you did? If you don’t want to give state or region, I’d appreciate more info on how far you were from a town of what size, and how close how many neighbors were.
What percentage of you time did you spend off your property - I mean, did you live there because you liked it and appreciated being away from people, or did you enjoy opportunities to go places and see folks? How many people did you live with - were you lonely?
What would be the big differences between living in the boonies poor, as opposed to with some amount of money?
What personality traits do you consider necessary to live in the boonies?
Were folks out there salt of the earth, crackpot loners, or just folks?

Thanks for doing this!

How long did you live there? Do you oryour family still own the property? I assume there was no TV, so how did you entertain yourself? Were you ever snowed in?

Sorry…need to read more closely…“snow was never an issue.”

What wild animals (aside from wood rats?) did you encounter? Can you give us a rough idea of the layout of your house?

Fascinating! Thanks for posting. I’ll try to come up with questions after lunch,

Yeah, I’ve got to get to the dump before the snow really flies. As I said in another thread, we have already had a 29” storm.

Regular garbage runs I make twice a month to a transfer station about 18 miles away.

Mail service? Nope.

We do have phone and electricity. I heated with wood for years and years. Finally got sick of it and now have a propane stove. It’s a passive solar house so it works out pretty good.

TV and internet have to be satellite if you want to be able to get anything at all. The phone line will only handle about 9kbs.

I’m the same way about camping. Ever since moving to the mountains, camping is just a way to sleep outside instead of inside.

For myself, I think self dependence and self reliance are very important but I guess that’s sort of a given.

You should also like to cook. There is no delivery, and the closest fast food is a half hour drive.

Have you ever read The Egg And I? Your description sounds a lot like this woman’s experience of living on a farm out in BFE. Her egg farm was somewhere on the Olympic Peninsula in Washington.

Well, Jahdr did say to chime in…

My Wife and I both drive 4x4 SUVs. I also have a plow truck that is chained up on all 4 tires. And a small 4x4 loader.

We have been snowed in just twice in 15 years. Once on April 19th. And just last year on October 10th.

Don’t have any type of lawn to take care of. Occasionally we will get out the weed eater and knock down the taller grass. It’s sort of hard to describe. I guess it’s a mountain/alpine ecosystem.

We see a bear now and then. And they have broken into my shed to get at the garbage.

I hope you don’t mind if I join in, since I grew up in the boonies as well. We did have electricity and a phone line, but we got our water from a well (shared with the neighbor 3/4 of a mile away), a woodstove for heat ( my first word was “hot!”), and had a PO Box in town because our “street” address was basically drive 5 miles up a dirt road through some combo-locked gates and over a bunch of cattle guards til the road stops - you’re there! I know we had a propane tank but I don’t know what we used it for. Maybe that was what powered our electricity?

The nearest “town” had under 1000 people, one gas station, one or two restaurants, and one corner store, and we had to drive to the next town over to do any grocery shopping or go to a movie (it was 6 or 7 miles down the road from “town”). I don’t think it was quite as isolated as Jahdra’s experience, but it was still a huge hassle if we ran out of milk or something. It was about an hour roundtrip to go buy anything, so my mom had to shop from lists and plan way in advance.

This was in Northern CA, so snow wasn’t an issue for us, though storms and floods did cut us off from town a few times (there was a big flood on the Russian River in '86 that kept us on our side of the river for a few days because the bridge washed out). I grew up being able to wander around for miles by myself and be perfectly safe - or at least, as safe as a kid wandering around outside in the middle of nowhere can be. Arranging play dates was somewhat of a challenge, as most people who came to visit had to have 4wheel drive to handle the road.

The property we lived on was a cattle ranch, and our house and our neighbor’s were cabins built on the ranch. We had to mend fences pretty frequently to keep the cattle out of our yard and garden, though during the really bad drought years that became increasingly difficult. Also, the shared well thing was an issue because our neighbor had a huge orchard and tons of plants and would sometimes use up all the water, and we’d run out in the shower or my mom would be changing a poopy diaper and be unable to wash her hands.

We had rabbit ears for the TV and got the 3 networks and PBS, but mostly my sisters and I entertained ourselves by playing outside with the dog, climbing trees, playing on the rope swing and jungle gym etc. in the backyard.

We had snakes in our yard and once in our washing machine and once in our house. If they weren’t too threatening, my dad would use a homemade snake stick to catch them, put them in a barrel, and drive to a culvert to let them go. Once my mom got chased by a rabid skunk (story here . My dad found bear tracks and we lost a lot of chickens to opossums and mountain lions and bobcats. And my mom and sister both had nasty run-ins with Western bloodsucking conenose beetles .

Our house was about 750 square feet, with a living room, a kitchen, two small bedrooms and a bathroom, and then my dad added on another bedroom and bathroom when I was 6 years old.

We did a lot of recycling, burned burnable trash, and hauled everything else to the dump every other month or so. We had one shed that was just for garbage, and when it got full my dad would load up his pickup and do a dump run.

We moved to another town when I was 10, and my sisters don’t really even remember living out in the boonies, but I remember it pretty well. If I’d been an only child, I think I would have been pretty lonely, and I know my mom was lonely being a stay-at-home mom. She enrolled me in preschool at age 20 months so I would get to socialize with other kids and she would get to socialize with other people.

I lived in California on the Central Coast, in the mountains. I saw the sun rise over the Monterey Peninsula every school day. The closest “town” was 4 miles away, if you’re counting from the paved road, had 200 people, an elementary school, a bar, 2 (!) restaurants, a quick mart type place with milk at $4 a half-gallon (this was 10 years ago), a volunteer fire department and a church. That’s it. It didn’t count as “going to town.” “Town” was a 30 minute drive, with all the essentials: grocery store, gas stations and drug store right on the edge of town. There were lots of us mountain people, most of whom despised going to town.

I lived on my family’s property, which is admittedly beautiful, but was the equivalent of golden handcuffs, at least for me. They refused to allow me go to college, on the grounds that I wouldn’t promise to come back. I wasn’t allowed to get my drivers license until I was 20 for the same reason. Luckily, my father eventually committed suicide (the only acceptable way to leave the Family) and I inherited just enough money to get the hell out. (No condolences necessary for my father, we’re all glad the bastard’s dead.) My family’s completely nuts (obviously) and have their own compound around the family business. Unlike most family businesses in the area, their business is completely legal and regulated and everything. :smiley: They own lots and lots of property in the area, so most of my neighbors were my family’s employees/tenants. They even have dormitories. So you work for the family company and live in family housing (they’ll make repairs for non-employee tenants, takes a little longer for employees and you have to fix it yourself if you’re family, even though you’re paying rent.) The house I grew up next to has been rented to the same family for almost 50 years. Being able to actually see your neighbor’s house is too close for most of my family members. Those are the ones that live waaaaayyyyy out there. Those are also the one’s with the deep-seated belief that electricity is evil.

I lived alone as soon as I could scrape the money together to rent one of their tin-roofed shotgun shacks. (The floor plan on wiki is downright luxurious. Bedrooms! Two of them, even.) I paid $250 a month for the privelege of living without electricity. On the other hand, I didn’t have to go to work black and blue anymore either, a definite plus. I declined a dorm room, because it was $180/month and the bathroom was down the hill and shared. Travel was out of the question, as my car insurance was outrageous, and my grandfather charged me an exorbitant amount of interest on a car loan (for a 10 year old car with over 175k miles on it.)

Slight hijack: Why didn’t anybody help me? Well, CPS (Child Protective Services) tried (not because of living in the mountains, because, see above, my family’s frickin’ nuts) but once you age out of foster care, you’re screwed. So I had to move back home, after signing a 3 page contract that basically said that I wouldn’t go anywhere, do anything, talk to anyone or make friends with anyone who wasn’t family or employed by the Family. I should have kept it, I suppose, but I burned it years ago. The other reason nobody helped me, even when I was black and blue? The Family owned them, one way or the other.

It might help to think of my family and their land as sort of like a feudal system. It was damned hard even for non-family to escape once they’d been sucked into the Family vortex. No kidding, they have 3rd and 4th generation employees, some of whom have passed their employee housing along as well. [/hijack]

Being poor in the boonies sucks. It is the rankest poverty you can imagine if you can’t be self-sufficient. However, there is a big difference between living simply in the boonies and wanting desperately to escape and being unable to. When I was in fourth grade, I think, my elementary school (no buses since most of the kids would have to have been driven to the bus stop on the paved road and at that point, it was only another 4 or 5 miles to school anyway) had an influx of students from a community that had been discovered by the government. I think it was a disgruntled former resident, actually, the government’s afraid to go too far back in the mountains, except by helicopter to look for pot. Most of the kids had no idea how old they were and some them, who their parents were, and they had to get social security cards, birth certificates, immunizations, just to go to school with strangers. That’s all pretty traumatic for kids raised to distrust the government.

Being rich in the boonies? That’s awesome. There’s a fair number of millionaires out there in the hills and they love living out there, off the grid, away from people. You can afford a car or SUV that actually has reverse! You can have pretty much anything you want trucked in. I know one guy who built an Italian villa, imported from Italy. He built it just so that he could have an oceanview, yet not get a building permit. He got caught by the Coastal Commission eventually, but his response was “go ahead and sue me. I’m not tearing it down. If you want it to come down, you’re going to have to come out and demolish it. Too bad you have to get through the gate first.” He lived behind a gate built by people fanatical about their privacy. Whenever new security technology comes out, they buy it. Nobody gets through the gate who doesn’t have a transponder. They have their own fire truck back there, so no worries about fire, but if it’s a big fire, they’ll use planes and helicopters to put it out anyway. If you’re seriously injured, you’ll have to be driven to the unofficial medivac field to be airlifted out. But if it’s bad, you’re probably going to die. It’s a long way to the closest hospital.

I have a question specifically for those who’ve lived both on and off the grid: what did you used to do for yourself that us city-folks are used to having others do for us? Were there a lot of things that you made/grew/produced that we buy in stores?

Wow, Jahdra, sounds like you had a whole lot more going on that just living in the boonies. Your last name isn’t Phelps, is it? :wink:

Not to hijack, but to clarify…was your parents’ house similar to the shotgun house you rented? And I understand you, you were removed from your parents’ home then returned?

I think I understand your question.

As has been mentioned, going into town to get your mail at the Post Office. Taking your garbage to the dump.

For myself. Plowing my driveway, and sometimes the county road when it’s bad and it may be a few days for the county to get to it.

I live at an elevation that there is no way I can grow anything, so I buy stuff just like anyone else. Though both my Wife and I get a lot of stuff from catalogs and have it shipped to where we work.

We also have a fire once a year or so to burn up tree branches. I will also burn any scrap lumber and stuff.

Sad but utterly fascinating story, Jahdra. Exactly what business was/is your family in?

No, not Phelps. :slight_smile: They’re not deranged that way, they’re not even particularly religious, unless you count the Family as a religion.

The house I grew up in was a more “traditional” shotgun shack. There was a main room, with the wood stove, that we called the living room. As you entered the front door, to the left was the kids bedroom (my brother and I shared a room until I was a junior in high school), to the right was the kitchen. Next to the kids room was my parents bedroom, and directly opposite that was the bathroom. It did have a tin roof for a long time, and there were no walls between the front door and back door. When you closed any of the outside doors, the whole house shook. That was due to the makeshift “foundation” of bricks and sticks. Yes, literal round sticks in stacks, along with some bricks and rocks, also in stacks, comprised the foundation. Oddly enough, when my family finally moved, my grandfather couldn’t find anyone willing to live in it. I wonder if it had anything to do with being able to see the sky through the crack between the wall and ceiling that ran from my parent’s bedroom to the bathroom. :confused: Didn’t they like the vines coming in through the crack? Saves on house plants.

Our bathroom had a clawfoot tub and no shower. :cool: That’s the only thing I miss about that house. The plumbing was probably circa 1950, and the sinks and such were heavy porcelain with seperate water faucets for hot and cold. Like the joke says, we had cold water in December and hot in July, except it never did get hot in July where I lived. We did have a phone and electricity and a well that we shared with the neighbors, the ones who’ve lived there for over 50 years. We had to pay them $7/month, cash, for the use of the well. Sometimes we paid them in $6 and a dozen eggs.

Across the cow field from us was a log cabin. The family that lived there eventually made the news as a double murder-suicide. His wife left him, he got upset, and shot her, her new boyfriend and then himself, all in front of their youngest son, who pleaded over and over, “Don’t kill me, Daddy, please don’t kill me.” His older brother took him in, while continuing to go to school. I think he eventually had to drop out when his girlfriend got pregnant.

I did end up a ward of the state in high school. All I’ll say about that is that I had a hell of a lot more freedom as a ward of the state than I did living with my parents. There’s something very, very wrong when you have more freedom in a locked psych ward than you do at home. The punishments were certainly less severe. When the Abu Ghraib story first broke, I started having flashbacks. Duct tape and guns played a significant role in our punishment growing up.

Which is a very roundabout way of saying that sometimes, not always, the people who end up isolated are isolated for a reason. Especially in cases like my family, where mistrust of outsiders is inbred, even if they aren’t, yet. Give them time, they’ve only been there 150 years, they’re working on it.

There are still there, and I think they’ve given up on me ever coming back. They disown me every now and again and then ask me where I’ve been. :shrug: They’re weird. I don’t miss having contact with them, although people do find it odd that I have such a large extended family that I don’t speak to.

Since I don’t think I mentioned it before, my grandparents are, and my great-grandparents were, millionaires. Money is not an issue, although my parent’s generation gets in line for their “allowance” every year. Like I said, they’re weird and if I never saw or heard from any of them again I wouldn’t mind.

Sometimes I miss living there, though, like the smell of the ocean, the fields and hills bursting with colors in the spring, the sound of the roaring waterfalls in the winter and the knowledge that all of this belongs to US. But the price is too high and one I’m no longer willing to pay. It’s hard to start from scratch, with nothing, and no family to fall back on, when they spent your entire life setting it up so you’d be afraid to leave. Most of them never have, you know, except the few that were allowed to go away to college. But I did. I’ve almost completely dug myself out of debt and I’ve never taken a dime from them that I wasn’t required to for tax reasons (we have trusts and stuff that I can’t get out of. I usually use the money to pay [del]their[/del] my taxes and then put the rest towards something they’d hate, like having fun.) My parent’s generation used to be jealous of me, and maybe they still are. At family get togethers, I am the only person that my grandfather treats as an equal. It’s funny how you get something only when it no longer matters.

Ok, enough hijacking my own thread!

Other than the hauling garbage and turning on the well pump manually? Hm, I think most of the other things were because we were poor and my parents were hippies. We got lots of fruit from the neighbor’s orchard (apples, figs, oranges, peaches) and my mom made and canned applesauce and apple butter every year. We had a decent-sized vegetable garden and my mom made homemade pasta sauce from our homegrown tomatoes and herbs. We had an apricot tree and strawberries and we made fruit leather in the dehydrator a few times, but it never lasted very long. My parents were very into the whole nonprocessed food thing and belonged to a few different food co-ops, so I never developed a taste for junk food. Any baked goods were homemade. Sometimes we got meat from friends who raised cattle, but most of our other food was purchased at the grocery store. And we never had any kind of food delivered and probably ate out less than 10 times in the 10 years we lived up there. There just wasn’t any money for it.

Jahdra, my parents had some land up in Mendocino county when I was a kid and we had to drive up a really long unmaintained dirt road to get there. Every piece of property we passed was owned by someone with the same mindset as your family, I think. We owned the top 40 acres of the mountain, but we had to pass all the pot farms and crazy kooks who didn’t want no damn trespassers (and would stand at the side of the road with guns and crazy looks in their eyes as we drove by) to get there.

There’s just something about uber-rural living that appeals to certain kinds of people, I think. My parents never wanted to live on our property because it was just too remote for them. Plus, they didn’t want to raise their kids around the other people who owned land on that mountain. Eventually the bad karma of the place convinced them to sell it (the owners before my parents had an arsonist burn down their house with their little kid inside), and the person who bought it from my parents ended up going to prison for murdering his stepson.

I almost brought up that some folks just can’t seem to adjust to the altitude and isolation. We have new neighbors now. They pretty much let their two dogs run loose. Australian Sheppard’s I believe.

Well, that’s kind of OK depending on the dog. My previous Labrador had no problem just lounging in the yard. She could do what ever she wanted all day thanks to doggie doors. She rarely went more than a few hundred feet from the house.

Our new dogs, two Border Collie, hound dog mixes, not so much. So I put up a fence so they could have some room to roam and do their business during the day (doggie door connects the fenced area to the house). And they can come in and lounge and stay warm.

Our new neighbors just found out about porcupines and dogs. They where walking them when it happened. Emergency Vet visit. I hope they will all be OK.

I’m real, real glad that our dogs are either smarter/learn fast, or have never encountered one. It’s very nasty business.

Hey, I was from the boonies too! The first town I remember living in had about 1000 people in it. Then we moved to a bigger (if ever there was a relative term) town with about 6000 people in it.

Anyhoo, in that first town, I was there when our road was first paved. Quite the big deal, all that newfangled asphalt business. I also was there when the same road (and most of the rest of our community) transitioned from party lines. Just imagine! With the amazing space-age advances in telephony, now when we called someone, the neighbors couldn’t eavesdrop anymore! And no more waiting for that blabbermouth Mrs. Cunningham to get off the damn phone up so somebody else could have a turn.

What totally backwards infrastructure do you have?

I live in the boonies now. Two miles to a paved road, the nearest neighbors and the mailbox. Six miles to a country store/gas station, 12 miles to a town of 2500 and 25 miles to a town of 9000.

Garbage: Separate into burnable and non. Burn garbage about once a week, and there’s an old gully to throw the non-burnables into.

Have electricity and phone service, in normal times. We have been without electricity for up to 24 days. (Hurricane Opal in '95) 17 days after an ice storm '99? and for lesser periods about every year. A portable generator runs a few lights, the well pump, TV and 'puter while we’re waiting for normal power to be restored.

Heat: Our primary source of heat is a wood heater, so to some extent, power outages are more annoying in the summer. We can stay warm in the winter, but the generator can’t run the central air conditioning unit. It’s hard to sleep on a hot night when you’ve been spoiled by air conditioning!

You need: A good truck, a tractor, generator, some guns to kill varmints, a chain saw and knowledge of how to use these things. A good, reliable horse is a plus when ice storms or hurricanes block the road with too many fallen trees to cut up in one or two days.

Cell phones have been a great thing!

It ain’t for everybody, but we like it out here.

Thanks Jahdra and mlerose for taking the time to type those posts. I enjoyed reading them. I’ve never lived as remotely as you, but your posts did evoke a few memories.

Jahdra, I’ve seen situations similar to yours. Not as extreme, though. The closest I could come to understanding it was that “the family” was the most important thing. It becomes so important that you sacrifice everything else until “the family” is all you have and then it becomes “us against the world”.

Congratulations on escaping that self-breeding (pun intended) cycle. Don’t look back.