Economic Base for Harry Potter's World

[eleanorigby]

OK, so I didn't do a search of the billion HP threads.

This is actually a general question thread, but this is my main question: how do the people in the wizarding world get their money?

I understand that there are jobs that pay-Ministry of Magic, the shops, Hogwarts. But how do the Malfoys come by their wealth? Or Sirius' aunt? How is such wealth sustained? Draco's family has maintained their position for over a decade (and that's nothing when it comes to the landed gentry in England), but how?

In UK, wealth came from land, whether it was agriculture or mining (coal), but what drives this in Harry's world? Any ideas?

I am rereading book 5-I find it restful between grad school assignments.

And what did James do? He as an Auror, right? Was Lily?

[Rhiannon8404]

I get the feeling the Malfoys may well be the magical equivalent of landed gentry. Maybe they actually do own land. It doesn't really say.

James and Lily were both aurors.

[gardentraveler]

Seems like several families (Sirius's included) are the equivalent of landed gentry and have been wealthy for generations. I don't remember a lot of information about this aspect of the magical world, but I've been re-reading HP this summer. I've got a couple of books to go before I pick that up again with 4, but I'll read it (and the rest) with your question in mind, rigs.

GT

[eleanorigby]

Ok, but. Do wizards farm? And if so, with what labor? Gnomes? Elves? Some heretofore undescribed magical critter? (I really just wanted to use the word, heretofore....).

I mean, is their society agriculturally based? If so, who and where do they import/export to? What are their crops? Crops=land and how to hide that from Muggles? If they can conjure stuff-why not food as well? How are the foodstuffs distributed-broom? Apparating?




Maybe I'm a bit too wrapped up in this.....

[delphica]

I'm with the other posters who think the Malfoys are the equivalent of landed gentry. I wouldn't be surprised if it were to turn out that the original Malfoy fortune was founded on something somewhat shady back in magical history, like exploiting house elf labor. Or black market magical supply trafficking (which seems somewhat supported by Malfoy's collection in the books). Or -- what is it called (I swear I'm getting dumber every day) -- where you play both sides of a supply line during wartime? Anyway, something not very savory.

Moving to the magical economy in general, there is possibly a farm system for growing the crops to make the various ingredients in potions, they seem rather specialized. I would guess the land is somehow hidden from the Muggle world, or co-exists with it without the Muggles realizing.

Is magic powered by anything? Is there a wizardly equivalent of a utility company? If there is, I can see why it hasn't come up in the books too much -- I'm not sure "Harry Potter and the Deregulation of Municipal Utilities" would be such a page-turner.

In terms of work force, one thing I am always perplexed by is the size of the Wizard world. In scenes like the Quidditch World Cup, the crowd is enormous and the coverage of events in the Daily Prophet implies a large population. Yet Hogwarts itself is not that big, and even if you look at just England, what percentage of young people are at Hogwarts and where are the rest of them? (I know this ground has been covered before on the SDMB.)

Because I clearly have too much time on my hands, I've also wondered about the economics of Wizard/Muggle marriages. I understand working for the value of work, but if you were a Muggle, and your Wizard spouse could conjure most of your basic needs, would you bother? Do you pay (Muggle) taxes for both people? Arthur Weasley just seems so clueless, I can never figure out why he doesn't simply get more information from those Wizards who have married Muggles or from the Wizards who have one Muggle parent.

[susan]

I'm not sure that it's an entirely closed economic system. A good number of wizards are born in Muggle families, so they have access to Muggle wealth. Imagine the Malfoys as descended from some nasty little Muggle baron (despite their 'pureblood' stylings) with a good head for investment.

It's never been clear to me how the Weasleys could be poor and the Malfoys rich, given that magic seems to have not cost and wizards do not appear depleted after using magic. While one needs to buy food, it's clear from Hagrid's actions at the lighthouse that fire can be conjured. Much of Mrs. Weasley's work is managed magically at home, though the addition of magicalk impediments and creatures at Grimmauld Place slows cleaning considerably.

We see at Gringott's that wizards have a gold-based economy. We know they have valuables that are similar to Muggle valuables, and in addition there are objects of magical value. Although it's not canon, I'll WAG that historically some wizards earned a stipend from the Muggles they lived with (i.e., the village hag with the herbal potions, the old guy in the cave casting hexes on your neighbor's sheep, etc.). Others provide goods and services for wizards.

In Le Guin's Earthsea books, the wizards have Muggle-like jobs (e.g., fishing) but also specialized magical jobs (e.g., windworking). Many of higher status appear to work in the rulers' courts, meaning they are ultimately supported by peasant labor. Also, the house-elves are slave-labor for either services or production of goods.

Wizard jobs: Professor, groundkeeper, caretaker, medical, shopkeeper, inventor, candymaker, politician, auror, bus driver, bus attendant, train conductor (presumably), trolley-pusher, cursebreaker, dragontrainer, executioner, potionmaker, lawyer/judge (informal?), receptionist, wandmaker, artisan, innkeeper, musician, newspaper writer, trainer of security trolls, Muggle liaison, and others. Many jobs are implied by the existence of, say, parchment and pens.

It is not clear to me that the Potters were aurors. Anyone have a cite?

The woeful lack of career education and services at Hogwarts inspired me to write a critique and suggestions for improvement. It will appear as a chapter in The Psychology of Harry Potter: An Unauthorized Examination of the Boy Who Lived from BenBella Books, forthcoming next summer.

[Anne Neville]

Originally Posted by delphica

Moving to the magical economy in general, there is possibly a farm system for growing the crops to make the various ingredients in potions, they seem rather specialized. I would guess the land is somehow hidden from the Muggle world, or co-exists with it without the Muggles realizing.

They probably grow them in national parks like some pot growers do. Or maybe they grow them in home greenhouses, as I've heard some pot growers also do. I would imagine there's less need for secrecy than the pot growers have, since the magical ingredients generally aren't controlled substances in the Muggle world.

I wonder why the wizards haven't stumbled onto the idea of getting some interest on their deposits at Gringotts. It's not like it's some sort of new Muggle idea (the Hebrew Bible denounces it), and the wizards don't seem to have a single common religion that forbids it.

Arthur Weasley just seems so clueless, I can never figure out why he doesn't simply get more information from those Wizards who have married Muggles or from the Wizards who have one Muggle parent.

Maybe he has his own theories on how Muggle institutions and objects work, and won't listen to anyone telling him he's wrong.

[Revenant Threshold]

Originally Posted by Shoshana

I'm not sure that it's an entirely closed economic system. A good number of wizards are born in Muggle families, so they have access to Muggle wealth.

I seem to recall in one book Hermione's parents changing their muggle money for galleons and sickles at Gringotts, so there is at least a recognised exhange rate.

It's possible that the wizarding economy is a "parasite" economy, so to speak. I can picture the Ministry of Magic and magical organisation licensed to conduct business with muggles raking in a huge amount of cash, which probably means Wizards are paid comparitively much more than muggles would be at similar jobs/positions.

[eleanorigby]

Originally Posted by delphica

IIf there is, I can see why it hasn't come up in the books too much -- I'm not sure "Harry Potter and the Deregulation of Municipal Utilities" would be such a page-turner.

I love it! I would read it, sadly enough....


As for Arthur Weasley, his ignorance is just comic relief. At least I hope so. Then again, ask some people who have never travelled about rural Mongolians or similiar--bet they'd sound like AW. Especially since AW doesn't have TV or the Internet to expose him to the Muggle world. On the other hand, he is an adult, with a responsible position-it's his JOB to know stuff about Muggles, so he needs to get on it.


Shoshana --lack of career ops? How can you say so? Why, there must be at least 6 or 7positions that the 3 look at in the 5th year.... I look forward to that book-I'm impressed!


I don't doubt for a minute that the Malfoys and the Blacks (and the LeStrange's) represent the landed gentry. But I doubt their economy is agri-based. I think it's more gun running type stuff and the double dealings referred to upthread. I can easily see a Malfoy progenitor as a kind of Carpetbagger.

7 kids makes anyone poor, IMO. I also think that the MOM doesn't value Muggles Dept, so AW's salary is less than perhaps it should be. You would think that it would be a vital Dept, but it lacks prestige.

RE the Potter's being Aurors. I know they are referred to as working against the Deatheaters, but I don't recall them being named as Aurors.

[Anne Neville]

Originally Posted by Revenant Threshold

I seem to recall in one book Hermione's parents changing their muggle money for galleons and sickles at Gringotts, so there is at least a recognised exhange rate.

I wonder if it's pegged to the pound. For that matter, I wonder if Galleons and Sickles are universal wizard money, or just British wizard money.

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

I also think that the MOM doesn't value Muggles Dept, so AW's salary is less than perhaps it should be. You would think that it would be a vital Dept, but it lacks prestige.

For that matter, they don't even seem to really care who they hire for that job. There are probably quite a few Muggle-born wizards or wizards married to Muggles or just wizards who have regular contact with the Muggle world who'd be much better qualified for it than AW is.

Though "knowing stuff about Muggles" isn't precisely his job. His job is to deal with enchanted items that fall into Muggle hands. You would think, though, that knowing how Muggle items are supposed to work would be very helpful in that job.

[susan]

I would read it, sadly enough....

Oh, you wouldn't be alone. I'm pretty sure there's a book called something like "If Harry Potter Ran GM." If someone doesn't beat me to it, I'll try to get a cite up later. Now, however, since I am not a witch I must stir my own Thai chicken!

[susan]

If Harry Potter Ran General Electric: Leadership Wisdom from the World of the Wizards. Given how disorganized and emotional Harry is, and how draconian the Ministry, I'm not sure see them as models for leadership, but then, I haven't read the book.

[delphica]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

As for Arthur Weasley, his ignorance is just comic relief. At least I hope so. Then again, ask some people who have never travelled about rural Mongolians or similiar--bet they'd sound like AW. Especially since AW doesn't have TV or the Internet to expose him to the Muggle world. On the other hand, he is an adult, with a responsible position-it's his JOB to know stuff about Muggles, so he needs to get on it.

I agree with you on the comic relief! I am able to take the books at face value and enjoy them thoroughly while I read but I am also the kind of nitpicky person who after the fact is strangely compelled to plot out detailed strategies for Arthur Weasley to be more successful at work.

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

RE the Potter's being Aurors. I know they are referred to as working against the Deatheaters, but I don't recall them being named as Aurors.

They were at war, so to speak, so I wonder if the Auror business was a "promotion in the field" sort of thing -- Wizards having to step up to the plate.

[susan]

Hmm. Were the Longbottoms referred to as aurors? Who else was in the Order the first time around, and which of them are named as aurors?

[Lumpy]

I wonder about the "seigniorage" of Galleons, Sickles, and Knuts. Is there a free exchange between Wizarding money and Muggle money based on the metal content? Or is wizarding money magicked in some way that means that specie has to be "imported" into the wizarding system by some magical propriatary process, presumably controlled by Gringotts and the goblins?

Wikipedia of course has a fine article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_in_Harry_Potter , but it doesn't address this question.

[Apos]

Originally Posted by Rhiannon8404

James and Lily were both aurors.

Gotta chime in on this one as well. We definately do not know this to be the case. One of the biggest plot holes in the series is just how LITTLE Harry knows about his parents, as well as how little he's even asked anyone about them (in story, something else always comes up to cut such conversations short, but it seems implausible that Harry would go six years without trying to find out and refusing to be distracted).

We definately don't know their professions.

I get the sense that basic subsistence living is pretty much not a problem for most wizards. The real valuables are the powerful enchantments that only a few talented or very specialized wizards can accomplish. While most Hogwarts students seem proficient in basic potion making, for instance, I doubt you'd trust a complex cure to anything other than a St. Mungo's specialist.

In short, everyone seems to be:

1) idle rich
2) in government
3) producing luxury items in shops
4) part of the service industry

What's missing? Anyone in agriculture or factory work. Seems plausible enough to me, given how easy it seems for wizards to acquire the basics.

[Fretful Porpentine]

Originally Posted by Rhiannon8404

I get the feeling the Malfoys may well be the magical equivalent of landed gentry. Maybe they actually do own land. It doesn't really say.

James and Lily were both aurors.

No, James and Lily probably were NOT Aurors, although their professions are not specified anywhere in the books. If they had been Aurors, it's almost inconceivable that Moody or McGonagall or Scrimgeour or Slughorn wouldn't have mentioned it to Harry by now. He hasn't made any secret of his ambitions, and plenty of the adults in his life would have been in a position to know if his parents were in the same profession he wants to go into.

[Chronos]

Hmm. Were the Longbottoms referred to as aurors? Who else was in the Order the first time around, and which of them are named as aurors?

The Longbottoms are identified as aurors in the memory of Bellatrix Lestrange's trial. But we needn't assume that everyone who fought the Death Eaters was an auror. Of the current Order of the Phoenix, only Tonks and Kingsley Shackleford are aurors.

[eleanorigby]

Originally Posted by Shoshana

If Harry Potter Ran General Electric: Leadership Wisdom from the World of the Wizards. Given how disorganized and emotional Harry is, and how draconian the Ministry, I'm not sure see them as models for leadership, but then, I haven't read the book.

I just might see if my library has that book-it might help me understand business a bit more.


The Longbottom's were definitely Aurors, and Neville's gran doesn't let Nev forget it. Poor Neville also feels the Crucio curse from Bellatrix in book 5. I look for Neville to show some incredible growth in book 7-afterall, he also "qualified" for the prophecy, at least prior to Voldy marking Harry.

And that's another thing: there were only 2 male wizards born in July of that year? How small is this world? Sure, the World Cup was huge, but that was international. Only ocassionally does Rowling say that HP doesn't know a student-we've covered the size of Hogwarts elsewhere, but this just struck me. Even if you consider the qualifier for the prophecy (thrice defied the Dark Lord)--still only 2? No wonder they have to marry Muggles....


And what happened to Hagrid being Keeper of Keys, as well as the Grounds? I am mining for any and all clues for book 7. I also think that Ernie MacMillian will play a role-he got an awful lot of "lines" in book 5.....
Off to work, with Muggles, unfortunately.

[Rysto]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

And that's another thing: there were only 2 male wizards born in July of that year? How small is this world? Sure, the World Cup was huge, but that was international. Only ocassionally does Rowling say that HP doesn't know a student-we've covered the size of Hogwarts elsewhere, but this just struck me. Even if you consider the qualifier for the prophecy (thrice defied the Dark Lord)--still only 2? No wonder they have to marry Muggles....

Well, this is Lord Voldemort we're talking about. Surviving three battles with him would be extraordinarily difficult. Then you've got to have a child with another person who also survived three battles, and have the child born at the end of July.

And what happened to Hagrid being Keeper of Keys, as well as the Grounds?

In that Mugglenet/Leaky Cauldron interview that I keep linking to, JKR discusses this. IIRC, it's just a title. Essentially, he lets people onto the grounds.

[eleanorigby]

But wouldnt' he have the keys to the dungeons etc?

I am trying to figure out a plot line for book 7. I bet Godric Gryffindor's sword plays a part, perhaps the potions book as well, and of course, that dratted locket. I wonder if Hogwarts will be seized in some way and the final battle played out there-that seems logical.

Also, I can't help but feel that Fawkes will come back to Harry--and perhaps AD will too, in some way? Not alive, but maybe he left Harry some helpful advice.

[susan]

but maybe he left Harry some helpful advice

[Dumbledore as Ghost]"Plaaaaastics."[/DaG]

[Anne Neville]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

And that's another thing: there were only 2 male wizards born in July of that year? How small is this world? Sure, the World Cup was huge, but that was international. Only ocassionally does Rowling say that HP doesn't know a student-we've covered the size of Hogwarts elsewhere, but this just struck me. Even if you consider the qualifier for the prophecy (thrice defied the Dark Lord)--still only 2? No wonder they have to marry Muggles...

I speculated in another thread that witches and wizards can probably use magic for extremely effective birth control. Birth rates go down in times of uncertainty, and I could see why most wizards wouldn't want to have children if Voldemort were running rampant. I would also expect to see a huge spike in births in the wizarding community starting around nine months after Voldemort's defeat, and perhaps a recent decline caused by his resurgence.

[aegypt]

Originally Posted by Anne Neville

I speculated in another thread that witches and wizards can probably use magic for extremely effective birth control.

Using the well-known spell Coitus interruptus!

[kaylasdad99]

Originally Posted by Shoshana

[Dumbledore as Ghost]"Plaaaaastics."[/DaG]

Thanks a lot. Now I have to explain to HR why I need to go to the ER due to drowning in a mouthful of coffee, AND to IS about why I need a new keyboard.

[eleanorigby]

Originally Posted by Anne Neville

I speculated in another thread that witches and wizards can probably use magic for extremely effective birth control. Birth rates go down in times of uncertainty, and I could see why most wizards wouldn't want to have children if Voldemort were running rampant. I would also expect to see a huge spike in births in the wizarding community starting around nine months after Voldemort's defeat, and perhaps a recent decline caused by his resurgence.

I was all set to give a serious answer to this, and then aegypt posted. Bwah!

So, are there birth defects and congenital anomalies present in the wizarding world? Tonks is an Animagus, which seems genetic; Harry is a Parselmouth, ditto. But what of withered arms or the like? Hunchbacks? (trying to think of witchy deformities besides warts and hooked noses--which leads my mind into the prejudice and marginalization of groups, but I digress). and what of communicable disease? is there no HIV, no measles, no common cold? If you look at this stuff long enough, it seems there are many levels, no? Or maybe I need to get out more.

Fred and George seem to be in light industry of a kind-who makes their novelties and otehr products? Does Stan Shunpike's brother* work day shift making Skiving Snackboxes? Does Hannah Abott's mum** manage the Instant Darkness product line?



* I don't know if he has a brother....

**I'm pretty sure she has a mum.

[eleanorigby]

Originally Posted by Shoshana

[Dumbledore as Ghost]"Plaaaaastics."[/DaG]

You crack me up. Plastics, Benjamin!

[Anne Neville]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

So, are there birth defects and congenital anomalies present in the wizarding world? Tonks is an Animagus, which seems genetic; Harry is a Parselmouth, ditto. But what of withered arms or the like? Hunchbacks? (trying to think of witchy deformities besides warts and hooked noses--which leads my mind into the prejudice and marginalization of groups, but I digress). and what of communicable disease? is there no HIV, no measles, no common cold? If you look at this stuff long enough, it seems there are many levels, no? Or maybe I need to get out more.

There are certainly physical problems that can't be repaired by magic, like Dumbledore's withered hand. And it doesn't seem possible to make a Muggle into a wizard by magic, either (being a Squib could be considered to be a birth defect, in a sense). My guess would be that there are birth defects and congenital anomalies, but magic can be used to fix some of them, like it is used to heal broken bones. I don't know if magic would work against bacteria or viruses. I suspect it does work against at least some of them, just from the fact that we don't see colds and flu going around Hogwarts as you would expect in a group of kids. They may be more isolated than most schools, but most of the kids do go home for Christmas, and could pick up colds or flu then and bring them back to Hogwarts.

[kaylasdad99]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

So, are there birth defects and congenital anomalies present in the wizarding world? Tonks is an Animagus, which seems genetic; Harry is a Parselmouth, ditto.

Tom Riddle got Parselmouth genetically. Harry's ability was thrust upon him when he was about a year old.

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

But what of withered arms or the like? Hunchbacks? (trying to think of witchy deformities besides warts and hooked noses--which leads my mind into the prejudice and marginalization of groups, but I digress). and what of communicable disease? is there no HIV, no measles, no common cold?

Well, there's Spattergroit, and Dragon Pox. Rowling has said that wizarding folk are vulnerable to some diseases to which Muggles are not.

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

If you look at this stuff long enough, it seems there are many levels, no? Or maybe I need to get out more.

No! By all means, stick around! These conversations are really a great pleasure.

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

Fred and George seem to be in light industry of a kind-who makes their novelties and otehr products? Does Stan Shunpike's brother* work day shift making Skiving Snackboxes? Does Hannah Abott's mum** manage the Instant Darkness product line?

Fred and George import that from Peru. They could employ a division that handles their international consignments of raw materials, I suppose, but I think they're a somewhat small outfit to be tackling that, when the Ministry has a complete Department already in place to deal with such matters.

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

* I don't know if he has a brother....

**I'm pretty sure she has a mum.

I couldn't tell you about any other Shunpikes who might be lurking about, but you might want to re-check your sources as to Hannah Abbot's possession of a mum. I'll have a look in my copy of HBP this evening.

[Chronos]

Tonks is an Animagus

Nitpick: Metamorphmagus. Being an animagus (like the Marauders and McGonagal) is learned through very difficult training, though it does seem that what animal you turn into might be inborn (though not necessarily genetic).

And the twins make their own products, using raw materials they get from all over the place. Some of it probably is from Peru, but remember, they were also experimenting with doxy toxin from 12 Grimmauld Place. They do have employees, but I think that they're all in the retail end of the business: No sane wizard would mess around with the kind of stuff Fred and George work with.

[Barbarian]

Originally Posted by Apos

In short, everyone seems to be:

1) idle rich
2) in government
3) producing luxury items in shops
4) part of the service industry

What's missing? Anyone in agriculture or factory work. Seems plausible enough to me, given how easy it seems for wizards to acquire the basics.

But you're forgetting that wizardly food has not been conjured out of thin air: at Hogwarts, it's been cooked by elves and then teleported to the dining hall.

Throw in the Ministry of Magic being part of Britain's official government, which implies a budget -- and Hermione's parents exchanging pounds for galleons, which demonstrates a rate of exchange.

It seems fairly obvious that wizards are buying food from Muggles. Probably wholesale by a specific Ministry department to minimize magic-muggle mingling.

[kaylasdad99]

Originally Posted by Barbarian

But you're forgetting that wizardly food has not been conjured out of thin air: at Hogwarts, it's been cooked by elves and then teleported to the dining hall.

Point of nitpick. In HBP, Harry remarks upon the fact that as a witch, Merope Gaunt-Riddle would have been able to provide food for herself and her impending spawn by conjuring it out of thin air. Dumbledore responds that yes, she could have; and only conjecture can explain why she didn't do so. Also, in GoF, we see Mrs. Weasley conjuring a bechamel sauce from the tip of her wand, while the potatoes peel themselves.

Originally Posted by Barbarian

Throw in the Ministry of Magic being part of Britain's official government, which implies a budget -- and Hermione's parents exchanging pounds for galleons, which demonstrates a rate of exchange.

It seems fairly obvious that wizards are buying food from Muggles. Probably wholesale by a specific Ministry department to minimize magic-muggle mingling.

I'm not prepared to embrace that conclusion, on account of my nitpick. I suspect that Muggle money moves in and out of the magical world through Muggle-borns financing their Hogwarts-related expenses, and witches and wizards paying for goods and services on those occasions when they must do business with Muggles (riding the Underground, renting a campsite, etc.)

[eleanorigby]

Originally Posted by Chronos

Nitpick: Metamorphmagus. Being an animagus (like the Marauders and McGonagal) is learned through very difficult training, though it does seem that what animal you turn into might be inborn (though not necessarily genetic).

And the twins make their own products, using raw materials they get from all over the place. Some of it probably is from Peru, but remember, they were also experimenting with doxy toxin from 12 Grimmauld Place. They do have employees, but I think that they're all in the retail end of the business: No sane wizard would mess around with the kind of stuff Fred and George work with.

Oy. You knew what I meant.....

The powder is from Peru. All I'm saying is that even if Fred and George run a small outfit, they had to be doing business with someone. Someone upthread had said that there is little to no manufacturing in Harry's world-fair enough, but who mines the stuff to make the powder? Who harvests the crops to make the potions or hunts the animals/critters to for other ingredients? There has to be a way for their economy to exist.

Anyone want to discuss if their economy needs to grow to survive?

[Rysto]

Originally Posted by kaylasdad99

I couldn't tell you about any other Shunpikes who might be lurking about, but you might want to re-check your sources as to Hannah Abbot's possession of a mum. I'll have a look in my copy of HBP this evening.

Hannah Abbot's mum died during HBP.

[susan]

So, are there birth defects and congenital anomalies present in the wizarding world? Tonks is an Animagus, which seems genetic; Harry is a Parselmouth, ditto. But what of withered arms or the like? Hunchbacks? (trying to think of witchy deformities besides warts and hooked noses--which leads my mind into the prejudice and marginalization of groups, but I digress). and what of communicable disease? is there no HIV, no measles, no common cold? If you look at this stuff long enough, it seems there are many levels, no? Or maybe I need to get out more.

Oh, no! Don't scoop me for Prophesy 2007! I have an outline for a whole talk on disability in Harry Potter!

[eleanorigby]

Originally Posted by Shoshana

Oh, no! Don't scoop me for Prophesy 2007! I have an outline for a whole talk on disability in Harry Potter!

Do tell! (or I'll accidently drop some Veritaserum in you coffee.....).



For book 7, what if Snape is given some Amortentia and falls for Hermione?

Hey, it could happen!

[susan]

I've tried to post this twice but Peeves keeps taking it. Third time's the charm.

For example: Is Harry's scar understood as a dueling scar rather than a disfiguring scar? Is being a squib a form of cognitive impairment?

what if Snape is given some Amortentia and falls for Hermione?

This way lie flame wars. But my bet is on Tonks and Ginny, if we're going to this route.

[eleanorigby]

Hmm. I've been pondering Snape for some time. I just can't make up my mind about him. If he truly is a bad guy, then Rowling is an obvious, cheap shot author who should be made to do hard time for just this cardinal sin alone. If he is not, everything gets more interesting.


I was being facetious re Hermione. Tonks is more probable and more intriguing. Unfortunately, Tonks and Lupin are seen to be holding hands at AD's funeral, and her hair is bright pink again, so that's out.

I cannot see Snape wasting time with a 16 year old girl, aka Ginny.

Here are some of my thoughts post book 6:

Bill and Fleur's wedding. It will serve either as Harry's re-entry in the wizarding world and, if it is peacable and lovely, will serve as a foil for the darkness that comes.

OR

Tragedy will strike at the wedding and Molly will be the one killed (accidently). I choose Molly because we never hear of her place on the clock. Also, she is the glue that holds so many people together, not just her family, but Harry ad Hermione and most of the Order. She truly has been a rock, and Rowling likes to remove foundations of support, doesn't she.


I am not a "shipper" per se, but I can see both Ron and Ginny getting killed and Harry and Hermione getting together--problem is, I can't see all that happening in one book. So, that's out.

I also don't get why it's OK for Harry to be OK with Herm and Ron to come with him, but not Ginny. It's almost like Rowling is trying to shove Ginny back into an archetype of chivalry etc. It bugs me. There is no reason Voldy wouldn't use Herm or Ron against him-and IMO it would be Ron that is chosen. His skills aren't as good, he is not as smart etc. He has definitely become second banana--in the first book, he had skills that Harry needed. Now, not so much.


I think that to be Snape at this point would be hell. I do think that AD had every reason to trust Snape-I think Harry is incorrectly ascribing the reason to Snape's remorse. I doubt Snape had much remorse re what happened, I also doubt that AD was naive enough to count upon remorse as being sufficent for anyone, much less Snape; there must be another reason for AD's trust.

So, now Snape, forced to do AD's bidding, all the while it looking like he is working for Deatheaters, has "declared" himself and now must fight on the side he doesn't want to, i.e. Voldemort's. Not a good position to be in. And who in the Phoenix will trust him enough to listen to his side? Harry has done the Order a grave disservice in his prejudice against Snape. There are things that Snape knows, that might help Harry, dontcha think?

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that AD has left a message or info for Harry. I also wouldn't be surprised if Fawkes finds his way to Harry either as a messenger or as a help.

I am concerned that this book will weigh about 20 pounds. They all sit on a shelf, each one thicker than the last.

[Chronos]

For book 7, what if Snape is given some Amortentia and falls for Hermione?

Then we all gouge our eyeballs out, trepan ourselves, and pour bleach into the hole. Unless you're talking about Alan Rickman, in which case it's just the brain-bleaching, and we can spare our eyeballs.

[eleanorigby]

Is Chronos female? (I thought you were a dude, man....)


Yum, Alan Rickman.....No brain bleach etc here for me!

[Chronos]

I am a dude, man, and a straight one. Just because I'm not myself attracted to Alan Rickman doesn't mean that I can't see that he is attractive. But there's not enough attractive in the world for a 50-something and a 16 year old, especially not if the 50-something is Severus Snape. Hence the brain-bleaching.

[delphica]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

I am concerned that this book will weigh about 20 pounds. They all sit on a shelf, each one thicker than the last.

I am hoping this book will weight about 20 pounds because I need all the loose ends wrapped up to my satisfaction!

[eleanorigby]

Got it, Chronos --i am a bit slow today....

delphica : I too, am hoping for many loose ends to be tied up. But I hold out for Rowling in a few years to publish Hogwarts: A History and then I will be happy.