Pedophilia: the unforgivable sin?

Great Debates
1

I’ve done a search on previous threads and know this is a pretty incendiary topic (hence the post in GD). I’m a father of two 4 year old boys and I’d be incensed to the point of violence if they’d been molested.

However.

Pedophilia (and this is coming from a point of almost total ignorance in the subject) appears to be the one offence where you might get released from prison, but your ‘debt to society’ will never be paid.

Certain white and blue collar crimes have finite sentences. In extenuating circumstances, I suspect even Murder can be ‘paid off’ and the offender allowed to move on.

But Pedophiles will always always always be persecuted, without remorse, with great venom, and by folks that aren’t qualified to evaluate their status.

Another thread mentioned a 43% recidivism rate. That speaks to me that the disnostic for release aren’t thorough enough…but that leaves more than half that DON’T repeat, and they MUST register where they live, and the WILL be persecuted as a result.

I dunno about your folks, but the decisions and motivations I had at 12 (a year at random), 18, 28, and now, have all been drastically different.

It’s a terrible crime, precisely because of the affect on the victims, but there’s the possibility of therapy helping the victims and helping them move on…not so much for the messed up dude/dudette that breaks the law. How many of THOSE folks break the law because they didn’t get treatment for sexual abuse in THEIR past?

2

43% recidivism is based on following arrests, leading to conviction. Andrew Vachss, at least (and I assume he knows more than I do on the subject), is quite vocal that pedophiles often share advice on not getting caught, their first time in jail (and certainly they have further understanding of the ramifications of failure to do so after they have been released, than they had prior to their first conviction.)

I dunno about your folks, but the decisions and motivations I had at 12 (a year at random), 18, 28, and now, have all been drastically different.

I suspect that the issue isn’t so much that the offenders can’t pay off their crime, as that at the moment, the sentence is too low as compared to societies view of how high it should be. The penalties of most crimes are based on the perceived immorality of the crime, and scale with it.

Sex crimes, though, tend to be based on maximizing ease of conviction. Simply, sex crimes are too hard to convict, so the penalty has been lowered to make it sufficiently likely that a offender will plead and get at least “some” time behind bars.

3

A little girl in my area was killed by a pedophilie. He asked her to come into his house to see his puppy, then raped and murdered her. He was a repeat offender who decided he didn’t want to leave a witness the second time.

4

Cardiwen The point of this OP is not horrific examples of what’s happend near you. The point is this: Is this an unforgivable crime? Reguardless of what the legal system does, it sounds like a person convicted for this is forever punished by the court of public opinion.

The ease at which, for example, a spiteful spouse in a divorce can level suspicion (Had THAT happen to a roommate). I can see this situation as being a VERY powerful tool in seriously screwing up an innocent party’s life.

5

Yes, it’s an unforgiveable sin. It’s a crime against innocent victims unable to look out for themselves. We owe it to children to keep them safe because they’re predators of the worst kind. The victims are helpless children.

6

Many of these people are just unfit for society. They are broken and they can’t help themselves. Either we lock them up forever (and some states do just that (except in a mental facility not a prison)) or we come up with some method of getting rid of these urges.

7

So, you’re saying it’s right that pedophiles be harrassed indefinetly after they’ve served their legally mandated criminal sentences?

8

If you call having to register as a sex offender if you’ve been incarcerated for pedophilia harrassment, yea.

9

There’s no such thing as sin–but it certainly is a crime.

10

I don’t think they should be locked away forever. Serve whatever sentence the court determines and be monitored. Be registered as a sex offender, and the authorities in that area should be notified. Neighbors with young children should be aware so they can prevent their kids from coming into contact with them.

If that’s harassment, it’s unfortunate but that’s the way it is. Regardless of what crime you commit, no one walks out of prison with a clean slate. With a prison record, you can’t vote, you can’t get certain jobs, etc. I don’t necessarily agree but it’s one of the consequences of committing a crime.

11

I think I more or less agree with Caridwen - the act of committing certain crimes irrevocably changes some of the variables affecting the way you fit into the world. It breaks things in a way that cannot be restored.
Like cutting off your own arm or something - doesn’t matter how much you regret it and promise never to do it again, it’s not going to grow back.

It’s unfortunate that it works that way, but (IMO) it does.

12

It is the unforgiveable sin. And with reason. But paradoxically, because it is the unforgiveable sin, we are unlikely to decrease the incidence of its occurrence.

There is some very promisng work being done right now in this area – that is, in the area of treating pedophiles so that they are unlikely to reoffend – but it is very nearly impossible to talk about it without, as you say, the conversation becoming explosive. So to date, at least to my knowlege, the only people who really know about it are people who work in the field.

The law must fail us in this area, by definition, and this is where people’s frustration comes in. Because the law requires a victim in order to act. A child must be molested. Not only that, but a child must be molested who will tell. And not only that but a child must be molested who will tell and who tells a person who then acts.

To prevent child molestation, pedophilia will have to be approached as a public health problem and I do not see that coming any time soon.

People believe that an ordinary man in an ordinary family, a responsible, married man and father is less likely to be a child molester. This is not true, it turns out: in fact the typical child molester strongly resembles the typical American man. He is marrried, caucasian, has children, went to college, has a steady job, attends church. Nearly all know their victims vey well.

Pedophilia can now be treated, and pretty effectively. The success rate right now for sex specific therapy is about 77 to 97 percent, success being defined as no more victims. It does not work where the problem is not pedophilia – still, this means that 95% of the acts of child molestation can be stopped.

The most effective treatment of course occurs before a person’s sex drive becomes focused on children – that is, early. However, the incidents which typically occur early are not usually illegal and the very prospect of the stigma is sufficient to prevent people from reporting or getting treatment for young people. However, a lot of adults with pedophilia are highly motivated in treatment but they have to find the right treatment. Because pedophilia is not caused by a person’s emotions nor by family dynamics, traditional therapies do not work.

But we have to stop focusing our attention on stranger danger – that’s not where the danger lies – and we have got to stop demonizing the offenders in order to get anything done.

13

Marienee - What do you mean about “before the sex drive becomes focused on children”? I thought that was the defining characteristic of pedophilia?

I knew what you said about “stranger danger”, I’ve been trying to explain that to the women on the “mommyboards” for a while, and it’s a tough sell. They’re all terrified of letting their kids play in their own backyards unsupervised, even talk about whether or not someone could reach over the fence to grab 'em. Public bathrooms - forget it! They won’t let their kid in a stall alone, never mind waiting outside the door while a 7-yr-old does his business. Has to do with a case in 1997 where a 9-yr-old boy was murdered in a rest stop bathroom as his aunt waited outside – it’s seared into their brains.

At the same time, a distant relative of mine (whom we see maybe once/year) got into trouble for doing something “inappropriate” with a 5-yr-old, back when he was 12. It’s not discussed in our family, I don’t know exactly what he did; I do know that he saw a judge and had some counselling. There is no f*in way he’s EVER spending unsupervised time with my kids. Ever.

At any rate, isn’t part of the problem with our definitions? “Pedophiles” get mixed in with “ephebophiles” all the time – sorry, but urges towards a 15-yr-old are NOT the same as urges towards a 5-yr-old.

And the violence part - is that really typical? Isn’t it possible to be a pedophile without behaving violently?

An adult who rapes and murders a child –> done (assuming guilt can be proved). There’s no coming back from that. We’v got 300,000,000 people in this country; we don’t need them. Would’ve saved this girl’s life.

14

My assumption is that **Marinee **is referring to treating young offenders or those who have thoughts of molesting when they are young, and the sex drive is still relatively open to attraction towards many things, not yet focused in a paraphilia where they are ONLY turned on by kids.

If that’s true, Marinee, could you please link to some information on treatment programs like this? Not because I’m calling “cite!” on you, but because I have a friend whose 12 year old is suspected on inappropriately touching a toddler, and they don’t know what to do about it. They’re terrified because they’ve heard over and over again that there’s no effective treatment for his urges if they are for little kids. They think all they can do is lock him up or ignore his behavior. “Regular” therapy hasn’t done the job - he was suspected of touching another kid inappropriately when he was 6 or 7 as well.

15

As I understand it pedophilia is a paraphilia, not a sexual orientation. There is a period in which a person is thinking about/fantasizing about/having recurring sexual thoughts about children, but have not acted. Obviously that would, from a social point of view, be the best time to get them treated.

It seems to be pretty rare that a person is exclusively a pedophile; most pedophiles are married and have children.

16

Regular therapy can’t do the job and bless them for being willing to step up to the plate. It’s so scary.

Here you go.

In the interest of full disclosure, I actually know Gene Abel whose website/research/book this is. The backstory is really interesting.

However, my support of this approach comes from my own professional experience. I have in various ways been involved in following the treatment of several people tested, diagnosed and in a couple cases treated in this way and was extremely impressed with the results.

17

Oh, I forgot. There is also a professional group called the Association for Treatment of Sexual Abusers, which has a national organization at atsa.com, and also most states have a state chapter. When I went to check the link, atsa.com was down for no apparent reason but I expect it will be back up shortly, it’s a largeish group.

They focus more specifically on peole who have already offended but if you don’t find anything on the first website my guess is that a call to the state chapter could point your friend in the right direction.

18

This is the kind of situation where I don’t think our society’s behavoir is correct. What is the motivation of the 12 year old? Could it be nothing more than curiosity at something that is different from him? In the mind of a 12 year old boy, the thought process may not be malicious, it may very well be ‘I haven’t seen this [girl parts] before and this is a way I can see them.’

The thought that in ‘normal’ people this doesn’t occur is an invalid one. I’m wondering when ‘Playing Doctor’ will become a jailable-judged-as-an-adult offence. I dunno about you, but I did stupid things well into my teens that I’m glad I’m allowed to move past them.

Marinee Thank you for an extremely interesting post. I’m glad to hear work is being performed in this area.

I guess my main issue is this: If you screw up in this fashion, you’ll never find a place to live again. All it takes is the publication of your name on a list and one militant person/family/group, and you get to move.

You know, unless we make a town just for these people. Would society want to walk down THAT particular path?

I brought up the OP as I was googling names of friends to see where they were and what they were doing…and one name showed up on a sex offenders list. It was a slightly unusual name, so the odds that the name on the list was this person was pretty good. Knowing what I know about him, he had extreme problems fitting in socially well into his early 20’s when I saw him last. So, I had a hard time picturing him as a monster, and I feel bad that he’s been turned into some lecherous monster and will be labelled such for the rest of his life.

19

You need to go back and read marienee’s link - that is EXACTLY the kind of behavior that needs to be treated. And can, with a high rate of success, according to Abel.

20

Is your issue with sex offender registries in general or with the social stigma associated with pedophilia?

Either one is entertaining but it isn’t really clear to me just which you want to talk about.

An older child being curious is qualitatively different from an older child on the road to pedophilia and that’s my point: the risk, it appears, really can be assessed fairly well. Not every child who is mean to animals becomes a serial killer even though there is a correlation; there is a qualitative difference and there are other things associated with the behavior which mean that one is nothign to worry about long term and the other is.

Though, both with the animals and with sexual inappropriateness with other children, there is short term a victim and that has to be honestly dealt with, too.