ARG220 A Good Debater?

[AuraSeer]

There's a thread in GD titled ARG220 And Mormonism. In it, ARG has posted the following:

If I wanted to go against Bill, and all the Mormons, you wouldn't be able to stop me. You wouldn't even be able to contain me. I'd rock the very foundations of their religion to the core, and they'd all be weeping from guilt and sorrow when I was through with them.

He seems to think he's pretty good at communicating ideas, and convincing people that he's right.

I personally think that ARG's debating skills are exactly zero. He writes opinion and conjecture as fact; his arguments contain many logical fallacies; when his points are refuted, he either simply repeats himself, or ignores the poster entirely. He also is very selective about the questions he answers, refusing to respond to anything that might catch him in a contradiction.

Am I wrong? Has ARG ever shown the ability to debate intelligently? Has he managed to sway even one person to his point of view?

(ARG, note that I am making no religious references of any kind. I am not bashing your beliefs, nor am I disparaging Christianity in general. This is a comment on what I see as laughable hubris, in your belief that you would easily out-debate your opponents. IMO, you couldn't argue your way out of a wet paper bag.)

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Of course I don't fit in; I'm part of a better puzzle.

[Contestant #3]

What do you expect Auraseer? With you being a witch and casting "magik" spells, you've pretty much got him at your "magikal" mercy... Give the kid a break, he's but a mere mortal. Go play with another witch you bitch.

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Contestant #3

[Czarcasm]

Connie, are you switching your vindictive and personal attacks to Auraseer, or just adding him to your list? I notice that you've been on an anti-witchcrat kick all over the board, even on topics such as this one that have nothing to do with the subject.

As far as ARG220 goes, ignorance of the subject does not make for a great debate. Participating in a debate on Mormonism without having read The Book of Mormon is like being a blind art critic. Someone may give you a pretty accurate description, but you still aren't qualified to judge.

[Diane]

Am I wrong? Has ARG ever shown the ability to debate intelligently? Has
he managed to sway even one person to his point of view?

Not only NO, but HELL FUCKING NO! If anything, he has done more damage to the Christian faith than any one of his debaters could even hope to accomplish.


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>^,,^<
KITTEN

Coarse and violent nudity. Occasional language.

This thread may actually mean something, IF I thought I was a good debater. BUT, I don't think that I am. I said that I like to argue, and that I'm good at arguing. (Or as Monty said, that I'm "good at getting into arguments.")

Besides, Auraseer's quoting me from the Mormon thread is out of context. If I were to try and debunk Mormonism, it wouldn't be a "debate." All it would be is me showing some Scripture verse, and then comparing it to passages in the BOM, and D&C.

Has he managed to sway even one person to his point of view?

An interesting question. I'd say the answer is no. But I'd also say that nobody on this board has changed anyone else's mind while debating. Witness some of the Great Debates. While there are many on this board with excellent communication skills, and vast knowledge, nobody actually has a change of heart, or has their views changed. Everyone just keeps arguing until they get tired, and the thread is abandonded.

Adam



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"Life is hard...but God is good"

As I have pointed out in the "ARG220 and Mormonism" thread, Adam tends to use two different standards in his posts. He approaches the Bible as being inerrant and infallible, while he approaches all other religious literature as being "offenders for a word," so to speak. While he will not blink at a glaring biblical self-contradiction, he will jump on the tiniest fault he sees in the Book of Mormon and instantly proclaim that book false.

When Adam ceases to have a double standard (one for his logic and quite another for others'), he will become a much better debater, IMHO.

[vanillanice]

Notice,how in the mormonism thread arg says he loves to argue. Not that he loves to tell people about Jesus.

[Contestant #3]

Slythe,

Are you jealous or something? Have I not been giving you enough attention?



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Contestant #3

[Monty]

Adam: you apparently still persist in equating "good at arguing" with "good at getting into arguments." They're not the same thing.

[Monty]

ARG220
Member posted 09-12-1999 02:34 PM

Besides, Auraseer's quoting me from the Mormon thread is out of context. If I were to try and debunk Mormonism, it wouldn't be a "debate." All it would be is me showing some Scripture verse, and then comparing it to passages in the BOM, and D&C.

This from the tyke who thinks the Book of Abraham is part of the Book of Mormon.

[AuraSeer]

ARG, my point is that you have an overly high opinion of yourself.

You claim that you, singlehandedly, could "rock the very foundations of their [Mormons'] religion to the core." Conservative Christians of every stripe have been attacking LDS beliefs for centuries; if trained debaters and learned theologians have not succeeded in convincing the Mormons they're wrong, what makes you think that you'd manage to do it?

You also claim that the Mormons here would be "weeping from guilt and sorrow when I [ARG220] was through with them." I take this as an assertion that you would convince them that their beliefs are invalid, and make them sorry that they didn't recognize your One True Faith immediately. Isn't this what you meant? If not, how did you misspeak yourself so drastically?

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Of course I don't fit in; I'm part of a better puzzle.

[Contestant #3]

Auraseer the witch blathered:

"ARG, my point is that you have an overly high opinion of yourself."

...kind of hypocritical coming from someone who's sig line reads:

"Of course I don't fit in; I'm part of a better puzzle."


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Contestant #3

[pricciar]

Auraseer,
Arg probably shouldn't have said that, or atleast made it more clear that it was a joke. But, he has stated all over the place that he was trying to kid with that statement, he had the little winky face to show he was joking.
But, in reference to his debating skills, they won't improve until he aquires more firsthand knowledge, I think he has been told that over three trillion times, one of these days he will pick up on that and start reading more than just viewpoints that agree with his own.

pat

[E1skeptic]

Man, oh man! Why don't we give the kid a break? Better yet, why don't we ask the Administrators to give him his own Forum?

Personally (stay away C#3, please) I think that Adam needs to learn MANY things before he continues trying to even "argue". Maybe we could go to his forum just to post links to good sites, or recommend good books for him, and Vanillanice can tell him how much she likes him and then, maybe, he'll change his mind about sexual innuendos.

Adam is way to ignorant to be a good debater, or even a good "arguer" as he calls himself. He is way too selective when answering questions, and utterly subjective. And please, Adam, don't say you are not. You have avoided me (and others) as much as possible.

So, anyone here for creating a new forum just for Adam?

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Men will cease to commit atrocities only when they cease to believe absurdities.
-Voltaire

[Byzantine]

You know what folks? ARG220 has gotten more attention than possibly any poster on this board. He must be doing SOMETHING right!

Hell, I'd flash my tits if I thought I could garner even 1/3 of the attention ARG220 gets!

Kisses all around!

[Polycarp]

Byz, you have a point. One thing I just noticed on reading this thread is that he's managed to get a witch to argue in behalf of the Mormons. That has to count for something!!

[vanillanice]

Elskeptic, Okay,I shouldn't have posted my innuendo.I apologized the Adam already. Forget I ever said it.

[E1skeptic]

Hey, Vanillanice, I really think you were doing him a favor! I don't see why you should've apologized to him. Seriously, Adam needs to become part of the real world, and a nice, gentle, and good looking woman like you would help him. Or at least that's my opinion.

Salud.

[VegForLife]

Conservative Christians of every stripe have been attacking LDS beliefs for centuries

For how long?

Rich

[andros]

Adam? You still there? Or did you leave after failing to convert any Heathens?

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There's always a bigger fish.

I'm still here. I'm just having fun reading this thread. I especially like the part about having someone give me my own forum. LOL. It's not as if I beg for the attention. YOU guys are the ones who keep creating threads with my name on them.

Adam

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"Life is hard...but God is good"

[Czarcasm]

That's nice Adam. While you're sitting there, think about all the people you've turned away from Christianity with your professed ignorance and your smug condemnations of other's beliefs. If there is a god, how do you think he would welcome you right now?

[andros]

Well said, Slythe.

Adam, please look at all your recent arguments with a critical eye. They all seem to boil down to "I'm right and you're going to burn for all eternity, neener-neener-neener."

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There's always a bigger fish.

Slythe: There is a God. And He's proud that I obeyed Him, in bringing the Gospel to this MB. However, my own foolishness, arrogance, and ineptitude has gotten in the way of the Cross. I realize that most everyone here dislikes me. BUT, there may be a lurker out there who's read my posts, and now knows of the Gospel. THAT would make all my mistakes worthwhile. If there was one who hadn't heard, who's now heard.

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"Life is hard...but God is good"

[andros]

Right! How silly of me to forget! God wants worker bees and drones for His Kingdom! Not people who come to Him willingly after actually opening their minds!

Since this is the BBQ Pit, I'll throw a little fuel on. Adam, it sounds like you are extremely insecure in your faith. It further sounds like you are afraid that if you even LISTEN to someone of a differing faith you might reconsider yours. You have all the markings of a virulent dogmatic clinging desperately to a religion even while he doubts himself.

And that, my friend, can really mess with one's head.

-andros-
There is no God but Allah, and Mohammad is his prophet.

[Doobieous]

Well adam, i am sure you won over a lot of Catholics, as well as Mormons with your comments! (Sarcasm)

You really don't seem to get it do you? Your opinions really would turn a lot more people off to Christianity than you think. You are actually almost making me feel embarassed to be associated with you through our religion (Yes, our religion. I am Catholic, and as we told you we are Christian too, just like Mormons are).

I see why so many people are disenchanted with Christianity,in part because of attitudes like yours.

[Monty]

Doobieous: Thank you for a well said word at the right moment.

As always, your brother in Christ,

Monty

(But as we all know, ARG220 says the Christ you and I adore ain't Christ. Oh, well.)

(But as we all know, ARG220 says the Christ you and I adore ain't Christ. Oh, well.)

What!?!? I think you better re-word that Monty. Don't spread any more lies about me.

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"Life is hard...but God is good"

[AuraSeer]

ARG, you have said many times in the past that neither Catholicism and Mormonism is truly a Christian religion. However, they do believe that one Jesus is their messiah, which is the very definition of Christianity.
If you're Christian and they're not, you must have a different Christ than they do. QED.

[VegForLife]

Hmm, I guess that website I checked accidentally left off the "B.C." after "1830."

Rich

[Monty]

Well, gee, Auraseer. Maybe, just maybe, ARG220 is actually going to admit (1) LDS and Roman Catholics are Christians, and (2) his sect isn't the perfection he thinks it is.

[Falcon]

Monty, if Adam does that, it's a sign of the apocalypse. Hey Satan, is it getting cold down there? Hell's about to freeze over...

[Byzantine]

Pardon me while I flash my tits and murmur, "ARG220, no matter how much you want to convert other's to your views, I bet I can get them interested in mine much sooner." She winks, tweaks her nipples and walks away....


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The moon looks on many flowers, the flowers on but one moon.

[Doobieous]

Adam: Don't try to deny your past statements about Catholocism and Mormonism. We know exactly what you think about Mormonism and Catholocism (both not Christian to sum it all up). Dont try to lie because we can easily catch you in one here.

Ok, I'll say this: I believe in the Gospel of Jesus, and that the Bible is truth. I also believe that one should follow what it says, and not deviate from it, or ADD to it, or twist it in any way. Now, if you are Catholic, and believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that He is the Messiah, that you need Him to get to heaven, that you adhere to His teachings, and do not add anything to the Bible, and follow His commands...etc, then you are indeed a Christian. HOWEVER, IMO, the R.C.C. has distorted the Bible over the millenia, and it's views do not align with Scripture. (A point with which even SoxFan will agree with...if he's still around) Therefore, I do not believe that it's possible to completely conform to all the teachings of the R.C.C. AND still remain true to God's Word.

This really is a sensitive issue to many people. I've had Christian friends who were once Catholic. But they enjoyed the atmosphere of the Catholic church. The short Masses, the hymns, insence (sp?), candles, repeated simple prayers...the whole nine yards. Those are things of tradition, and I see no problem in them. I firmly believe that one can be true to God's Word, and fully Christian, yet still attend Catholic Masses, because they enjoy the atmosphere/tradition.

However, these friends did not adhere to the teachings of the R.C.C., i.e the Sacraments, and going to confession, praying to the saints and Mary, believing that the communion host actually becomes Jesus' body...etc. (I believe that's called "Transfiguration", but I'm not sure.) It's those things that, IMO, are a distortion of Scripture. Instead, they believed as I do, as Full Gospel Christians.

Mormonism...oh why do I have to get started on THIS again??? I'm not going to retreat at all on this one. IMO, Mormonism is a cult. Plain and simple. So, no, in my mind, Mormons are not Christians. You may say I'm wrong, but that's what I believe.

Adam

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"Life is hard...but God is good"

[andros]

Adam, I think the word you're looking for is "transubstantiation." And it's not exclusively a Catholic belief. Many folks have read "this is my body" and taken it literally, and sought to emulate it.

So, my next question for you would be, was the last supper a full-fledged miracle? Or was the Christ speaking metaphorically?

Heck, I grew up methodist. We had Welch's. So I don't know all that much about RCC beliefs on Communion.

-andros-

[andros]

True enough, Monty. I forgot for just a moment that we're in the Pit. And I forgot for a moment that I can't expect him to even make the attempt to get his facts straight.

I just got off a conference call with Allah, Zeus, Odin, Ganesha, Amun-Ra, and Inanna. They all decided that ARGlebargle has a lovely place reserved in any of their respective hells whenever he wants. (Actually, Ganesha just mentioned he would come back as a dung beetle. Dang nice-guy Hindus.)

-andros-

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There's always a bigger fish.

Adam (who else?) wrote:

Mormonism...oh why do I have to get started on THIS again??? I'm not going to retreat at all on this one. IMO, Mormonism is a cult. Plain and simple. So, no, in my mind, Mormons are not Christians. You may say I'm wrong, but that's what I believe.

Must.....resist.....the urge.....to.....bang....head....against....wall....in....utter.....disgust.....

As I said before, you may not agree with my beliefs, but they are mine.

Monty says:

I'm truly astounded that after numerous opportunities to alleviate himself of that ignorance, he has retreated into delight in that ignorance.

I think you mean, "After Adam has failed to accept Mormons as Christians, I'll say that he's ignorant."

I'm sorry Monty, but "alleviate himself of that ignorance" also does not mean, "conform to the truth, as Monty sees it" either.

Adam

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"Life is hard...but God is good"

Adam wrote:

As I said before, you may not agree with my beliefs, but they are mine.

No one's saying you're not entitled to your own beliefs. If you want to believe that Mormons are not Christians, fine. That's your business, not mine.

What I was trying to point out in my last 1000 posts to you is, if you haven't read the Book of Mormon, you really don't have an informed opinion of Mormonism. If you don't want to read the Book of Mormon, that's fine too. Just don't expect me to give you quite the credence I would give you if you had actually read the thing and understood LDS doctrine. You can "debunk" Mormonism all you want, but TO ME, your opinions of it are uninformed and thus not credible.

[Monty]

Adam: as Snarkberry has so eloquently shown in his last posting above, your opinions are not based in fact and therefore are based on ignorance. Your espousal of said ill-informed (actually uninformed) opinions constitutes bigotry.

That is not "truth as Monty sees it," bigot; that is Reality with a capital R.

[Doobieous]

Your ignorance astounds me Adam. Instead of talking to people who know what Catholocism is about, you resorted to former Catholics who converted to a FUNDAMENTALIST mindset, no less. Well, i give up, this is like talking to a wall. Go on your merry ignorant way Adam.

Phrase of the day: "Fundamentalist churches: Check your brains in at the door because you wont be needing them here!"

[Monty]

Andros: and the two words the rest of us have no trouble in finding to refer to ARG220 are "bigot" and "ignorant."

I'm truly astounded that after numerous opportunities to alleviate himself of that ignorance, he has retreated into delight in that ignorance.

Doobieous:

Instead of talking to people who know what Catholocism is about, you resorted to former Catholics who converted to a FUNDAMENTALIST mindset, no less.

Except, that I HAVE spoken to people who know what Catholocism is all about. I've even discussed it with Tomndebb, and Pickman's Model.

I have to say something, because it's been bothering me for months now. Many of you say that I'm ignorant about other religions. You know what? You're right. I haven't read the BOM, or the Catechism. I do not know every single little thing about Mormonism, or Catholocism. BUT, I DO know some things. Paul says: "Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough?" 1 Corinthians 5:6

One bad teaching affects an entire religion. A little distortion of Scripture goes a LONG way. There may be beliefs that are very close to Protestant beliefs in many ways. BUT, a few differences, and it changes everything. What I'm trying to say, is that one does not need to read, or study another religion for a lifetime to see distortions, perversions, or differences in teaching. And a little bad yeast will ruin the dough.

Adam

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"Life is hard...but God is good"

[Monty]

And I always thought "A little leaven leaventh the whole loaf" was one of the descriptions of a positive aspect of Christianity. Thanks for showing a perverse view of that, Adam.

Oh, perhaps that means you've perverted the Word!

[Monty]

Adam: you say that maybe you don't know every little thing about the Roman Catholic and the Latter Day Saint churches; and I maintain that you know exactly nothing about them.

Here's a cool little test for you and it'll even help you develop debating skills:

1) Roman Catholic Church: What's the official doctrine of that church about Mary, Jesus's mother? Please give sources.

2) Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints: Tell us about the Salamander Letter. Again, please give sources.

Everyone else: please, please, withhold your comments until Adam has responded. That's only fair, isn't it?

Monty:

And I always thought "A little leaven leaventh the whole loaf" was one of the descriptions of a positive aspect of Christianity. Thanks for showing a perverse view of that, Adam.

I'm sorry Monty, but you're wrong again. Yeast in Scripture is never a good thing. Why do you think that the Jews are not to eat leavened bread during Passover? Or other celebrations? It's because in Scripture, yeast represents corruption, and sin.
Go ahead and prove me wrong. There is not one verse in the Bible that speaks of yeast in any positive manner.

I do not wish to play games with you Monty. Yea, you stumped me with your questions on the Catholic teachings of Mary, and the Mormon teaching on the Salamander Letter. By asking me these questions, you obviously didn't understand my post above though. I don't have to know about any Salamander Letters to know there are false teachings in LDS.

Adam

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"Life is hard...but God is good"

[SkeptiJess]

... BUT, I DO know some things. Paul says: "Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough?" 1 Corinthians 5:6

One bad teaching affects an entire religion. A little distortion of Scripture goes a LONG way. There may be beliefs that are very close to Protestant beliefs in many ways. BUT, a few differences, and it changes everything. What I'm trying to say, is that one does not need to read, or study another religion for a lifetime to see distortions, perversions, or differences in teaching. And a little bad yeast will ruin the dough.

Once again, Adam -- you are confusing what you think with what you know. Just because YOU perceive something as a "distortion" or "perversion" does not make it so. It is your opinion only. Furthermore, by your own admission, it is an uninformed opinion -- the very worst kind. And! You chose to word your uninformed opinion in an offensive and derogatory way. Not that I am surprised -- coming from an individual who doesn't hesitate to call another person's religion "wrong and evil." Really, Adam, you are a waste of skin, bones and brain cells.


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Jess
Full of 'satiable curtiosity

[andros]

Adam pontificated:
"Why do you think that the Jews are not to eat leavened bread during Passover? Or other celebrations? It's because in Scripture, yeast represents corruption, and sin."

So Jews who eat leavened bread are sinning? Or does yeast only become sinful during holidays?

-andros-

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There's always a bigger fish.

Believe what you want, Adam. Hey, if we have a difference of opinion, let's just agree to disagree and consider the subject closed.