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  #1  
Old 11-24-2006, 12:16 AM
diggleblop diggleblop is offline
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Do pharmacies verify every narcotic script with the prescribing Doctor?

I see a pain management Doctor once a month for the past two years due to chronic pain from an traumatic injury. This Doctor is compassionate, but careful with who he prescribes what to, but he is still very liberal with pain medication.

Naturally, where there is a Doctor that is liberal with prescribing pain meds, there will be a million patients trying to see him.

So, I'm sitting there in this crowded waiting room thinking, "man, it must be a pain in the ass for this Doctor because if they do check every script, I bet pharmacies don't leave him or his staff alone."

So it got me thinking, do pharmacies verify all narcotic scripts? Do they just verify ones that are questionable? Do they just verify Schedule II narcotics?

If so, that would seem very time consuming, is it? Why not just do everything over some sort of medical intra net?
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  #2  
Old 11-24-2006, 12:34 AM
Hirka T'Bawa Hirka T'Bawa is offline
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I work as a Pharmacy Tech in a major chain retail pharmacy. We only call the Doctor's office if we think its a forgery. However, if there is a patient that we think is a drug adict, we might refuse to fill all of his/her controlled medications.

Normally with forgeries, they are almost all ways written in the same way, Loratab 10/500, take 1-2 tablets every 6 hours as needed for pain. Quantity 90.
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  #3  
Old 11-24-2006, 12:42 AM
diggleblop diggleblop is offline
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Ha, ironically, that's the medication I get.
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Old 11-24-2006, 12:57 AM
Voyager Voyager is offline
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I believe that my doctor electronically transmits most prescriptions to my pharmacy - I can request renewals from the doctor on-line. It's a real drugstore, not a giant chain, and I think they know their clients reasonably well. They also have a record of what you get, so I'd suspect they'd confirm suspicious paper prescriptions. I've never had an issue the few times we've gotten Tylenol with codeine or vicodin.
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Old 11-24-2006, 04:26 PM
diggleblop diggleblop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirka T'Bawa
However, if there is a patient that we think is a drug adict, we might refuse to fill all of his/her controlled medications.

Also, I've always wondered why Pharmacists felt it was up to them who decides who is or who isn't a drug addict? Isn't that none of their business?

Because one time I had a script for 120 Lortab and they wouldn't fill it because the Pharmacist said "your insurance states that you just had some filled two weeks ago" and he handed me a copy of my original script and said "here, this is just as good as a real script, just hold onto this and we'll fill your original in two weeks, it's way too soon for you."

naturally I was pissed and demanded my original script back. What had happened was I had my tooth pulled and got 15 Hydrocodone filled two weeks prior and my insurance paid for it, so it was coming up that I already had some filled.

Why do people do that? Some people may be addicted, but at the same time, they may also have cancer and need this medication.
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  #6  
Old 11-24-2006, 04:37 PM
Omegaman Omegaman is offline
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Originally Posted by diggleblop
Why do people do that? Some people may be addicted, but at the same time, they may also have cancer and need this medication.
People have cancer generally take something stronger than Loritab , such as

Oxycontin. I works far better than Loritab , and you dont have to take as much .
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Old 11-24-2006, 04:39 PM
diggleblop diggleblop is offline
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I understand that, but I had a friend of mine who was taking 20mg Oxycontin and one time the Pharmacist pulled him aside and asked him if he "had a problem with these" and my friend said "yeah, I do" and pulled up his shirt revealing his deformed vertebrae in his back from the radiation.
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Old 11-24-2006, 04:44 PM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is online now
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It is illegal for pharmacists and doctors to dispense opiate narcotics to maintain an addiction. Therefore both are obliged by law to be relatively sure that the prescriptions are not only legitimate, but that they are not feeding an addiction.

Diversion of physician prescriptions is the number one source of illicit narcotics. At least that's what the DEA agent I talked to last year told us, at the prescriber's seminar. Most of these folks get the scrips that later get diverted (for money) by complaining of back pain. Many have interestingly shaped spines or other deformities, but most look pretty normal.

Which is why I prescribe narcotics generally only for either acute moderate to severe pain, or malignant pain.
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Old 11-24-2006, 04:44 PM
Omegaman Omegaman is offline
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Originally Posted by Omegaman
People have cancer generally take something stronger than Loritab , such as

Oxycontin. I works far better than Loritab , and you dont have to take as much .
People that & it generally
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  #10  
Old 11-24-2006, 04:55 PM
Shagnasty Shagnasty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diggleblop
Also, I've always wondered why Pharmacists felt it was up to them who decides who is or who isn't a drug addict? Isn't that none of their business?
I think it is part of their job and therefore it is their business. Pharmacists are the ones that can catch multiple prescriptions for the same drug from different doctors and all the other standard tricks. They go to school for a long time so that they can catch potential adverse drug interactions as well as mistakes by doctors. They aren't there just to silently fill whatever comes across their counter.
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  #11  
Old 11-24-2006, 05:08 PM
Kevbo Kevbo is offline
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I clerked in a pharmacy when I was in high school in the late 70s, so this is dated info. Small one pharmacist + clerk shop in a medical building.

At that time a narcotic perscription required a Doctors's signiture. Most other drugs did not. If it was on preprinted Rx stationary, or phoned in that was OK, but narcaotics had to have a hard copy signature, and phoned-in was not OK.

The only time it was phone verified was if it was for some reason suspect. That could mean a doctor we'd never heard of or perhaps a patient who claimed to live at a distant address.

I recall once pissing off a regular customer because thier doctor failed to sign a narcotic perscription, and they had to drive across town, in pain, to correct the error. I recall another case where the pharmacist caught a patient double-doctoring to get extra Darvocet....they were addicted & abusing, not dealing.

Don't think Oxycontin and such were around back then....Pretty sure that the Darvon and Darvocet were the strongest stuff we ever dispensed.

aside:
All prescriptions were required to have the patients address, yet doctors NEVER wrote that, so we always had to fill that in before filling the Rx. The pharmacy job was not my first job. My first job was a paperboy, a few years earlier. Since it was a neighborhood pharmacy, a lot of the patients were my former paper route customers, yet failed to make the connection. It used to really wierd them out when they'd watch me fill in thier correct address without ever asking!
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  #12  
Old 11-24-2006, 06:03 PM
diggleblop diggleblop is offline
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Quote:
It is illegal for pharmacists and doctors to dispense opiate narcotics to maintain an addiction.
Ahh, I didn't know this. I can see more clearly as to why they ask certain questions now. Because I've been asked some odd questions by Pharmacists before and felt a little...well...violated and offended. I've always thought that if the Doctor doesn't think you're addicted, then he wouldn't write the script.

One thing though, if the Pharmacist makes the decision that the person with the script IS a drug addict, what happens? Does the person not get the meds? What would happen if the patient said "Hey Doc, the Pharmacist said I am addicted to these meds, so they took away the script you gave me for my chronic pain" ?

It just seemed to me that a Doctor would know a little better than a Pharmacist (not saying Pharmacists don't know what they're doing) when it came to who got which meds and who may have a problem with them.

Quote:
I think it is part of their job and therefore it is their business.
But again, isn't that second guessing the prescribing Doctor? I've even discussed this in the past with my Doctor and he got angry at the Pharmacy. But since Qadgop said it's illegal to feed an addiction, I know why now.
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  #13  
Old 11-24-2006, 07:08 PM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diggleblop
But again, isn't that second guessing the prescribing Doctor? I've even discussed this in the past with my Doctor and he got angry at the Pharmacy. But since Qadgop said it's illegal to feed an addiction, I know why now.
If the pharmacist feels they might be violating the law by filling the scrip, they can return the scrip to the patient. Or, if their index of suspicion is high that the scrip is a forgery, or not legit, they'll usually try to contact the doc and then hold on to the scrip if they can't confirm its legitimacy.

Pharmacists are health professionals too, and not mere servants of the doctor's orders. I know pharmacists that hesitate to fill certain doctors' scrips, because they feel the doctor does not practice good medicine. This often results in a referral to the Medical Examining Board, or even the local DA, if they suspect the doctor is trading narcotics for money.

Lots of "pills for bills" docs have been busted because they've been turned in by pharmacists. More power to those pharmacists.
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Old 11-24-2006, 07:13 PM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is online now
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BTW, if the need for opiate pain relief is legitimate (such as major injury or malignant pain), opiates legally can (and should) be prescribed even in the presence of physical or psychological opiate addiction.

Nowadays in the US, we do have two opiates, methadone and buprenorphine, which can be used to maintain or detox from an opiate addiction. The former requires tons of paperwork to be allowed to prescribe it for such, the latter not quite so much. But very few physicians have these certifications. I am certified to use buprenorphine, but generally only use it to detox folks from their opiates, when appropriate.
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Old 11-24-2006, 07:20 PM
A.R. Cane A.R. Cane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan
BTW, if the need for opiate pain relief is legitimate (such as major injury or malignant pain), opiates legally can (and should) be prescribed even in the presence of physical or psychological opiate addiction.

Nowadays in the US, we do have two opiates, methadone and buprenorphine, which can be used to maintain or detox from an opiate addiction. The former requires tons of paperwork to be allowed to prescribe it for such, the latter not quite so much. But very few physicians have these certifications. I am certified to use buprenorphine, but generally only use it to detox folks from their opiates, when appropriate.
I seem to remember have read, or heard, that physicians were required to file a periodic report of all narcotic scrips. Is that not true?
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Old 11-24-2006, 07:26 PM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is online now
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Originally Posted by A.R. Cane
I seem to remember have read, or heard, that physicians were required to file a periodic report of all narcotic scrips. Is that not true?
Not that I'm aware of. We need to document in the patient's chart why we prescribe what we do, how much, etc. But that's all I've ever done. And it is expected that if one continues to dispense potent narcotics month after month, one need to see the patient periodically and document their status in the chart.

If the doctor dispenses schedule II narcotics from his office, meticulous records, which must be inspected regularly by the DEA, need to be kept.
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Old 11-24-2006, 07:29 PM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is online now
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In some states, I do believe that Schedule II drugs (oxycodone, morphine, demerol, methadone, et al) need to be written on duplicate (or even triplicate) scrips, and a copy kept at the doctor's office, and perhaps turned into someone somewhere. But my state doesn't do that, so I'm unaware of the mechanics of it.

Perhaps some doc who practices where that is done can elaborate on the process.

Prescribing DEA scheduled drugs is a privilege and a duty and a tremendous responsibility, and the physician who takes it lightly, without thoughtfully assessing his/her patient and their situation, is a fool. Dispensing DEA scheduled drugs (as pharmacists do) is also fraught with these features.
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  #18  
Old 11-24-2006, 07:31 PM
ladyfoxfyre ladyfoxfyre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diggleblop
One thing though, if the Pharmacist makes the decision that the person with the script IS a drug addict, what happens? Does the person not get the meds? What would happen if the patient said "Hey Doc, the Pharmacist said I am addicted to these meds, so they took away the script you gave me for my chronic pain" ?
In this instance, we will give the script back to the patient or contact the doctor and return the script to the patient or destroy/void it at the MD's request.

Quote:
It just seemed to me that a Doctor would know a little better than a Pharmacist (not saying Pharmacists don't know what they're doing) when it came to who got which meds and who may have a problem with them.


But again, isn't that second guessing the prescribing Doctor? I've even discussed this in the past with my Doctor and he got angry at the Pharmacy. But since Qadgop said it's illegal to feed an addiction, I know why now.
As Qadgop has previously stated, the Pharmacist is not just a slave to the Dr's prescribing whim. They have a license to protect too. For instance, if you were allergic to morphine, and the Dr. prescribes you MS Contin, and the pharmacist is aware of your allergy and fills it anyway....when you die, he is just as liable as the MD is for the fact that you received a medication that you had an allergy to.

As to your idea that the doctor knows more than the Pharmacist does whether or not you're addicted, I think you have a very idealized view of a lot of MD's. Many don't look twice on your chart to see when the last time you received a script for Percocet, they just get into the habit of writing you a new script each time you come into the office. I have caught literally dozens of scripts that were too soon that doctors have told me to void because they weren't aware they had just written the same prescription two weeks earlier for a 30-day supply. Double this if certain patients happen to be doctor-shopping.

It's not a horrible thing to second guess doctors, you know. They aren't infallible, and they should understand the when the pharmacist calls them to verify a script, we're working towards the general goal which is the health and safety of the patient, not the battling of professional egos.

-foxy
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Old 11-24-2006, 07:31 PM
A.R. Cane A.R. Cane is offline
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If the doctor dispenses schedule II narcotics from his office, meticulous records, which must be inspected regularly by the DEA, need to be kept.[/QUOTE]

That must be it, I probably misinterpreted what I heard. Thanks.
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Old 11-24-2006, 07:33 PM
ladyfoxfyre ladyfoxfyre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan
In some states, I do believe that Schedule II drugs (oxycodone, morphine, demerol, methadone, et al) need to be written on duplicate (or even triplicate) scrips, and a copy kept at the doctor's office, and perhaps turned into someone somewhere. But my state doesn't do that, so I'm unaware of the mechanics of it.
I believe that the state of New York has to have CII's in triplicate, where the MD keeps a copy, the second copy goes to the DEA/State Pharmacy Board and the third copy goes to the Pharmacy.

California has to have them on specific pad that denotes a span of numbers to be circled for the quantity.

Makes me glad Florida doesn't require all that mess.
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Old 11-24-2006, 07:39 PM
ladyfoxfyre ladyfoxfyre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diggleblop
naturally I was pissed and demanded my original script back. What had happened was I had my tooth pulled and got 15 Hydrocodone filled two weeks prior and my insurance paid for it, so it was coming up that I already had some filled.
And I also find this suspicious, as any typical dosage of any hydrocodone script wouldn't last you two weeks. And nobody would have reasonably put #15 in for a 30 day supply, so he was within reason to give you your script back. Just so you know, when your insurance rejects your claim saying that it's too soon, it typically tells us when and how many your last fill was for. #15 fourteen days prior wouldn't have been enough to make him deny your script.

Not calling you a liar, just saying that we are careful but not Nazis about it.
Perhaps you have your timeline confused.
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Old 11-24-2006, 07:41 PM
postcards postcards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyfoxfyre
I believe that the state of New York has to have CII's in triplicate, where the MD keeps a copy, the second copy goes to the DEA/State Pharmacy Board and the third copy goes to the Pharmacy.

California has to have them on specific pad that denotes a span of numbers to be circled for the quantity.

Makes me glad Florida doesn't require all that mess.
I worked in a small pharmacy in New York state during the mid-1970's. Triplicate scrips for narcotics were the norm then, not sure what it is now.
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  #23  
Old 11-24-2006, 07:44 PM
Mr. Slant Mr.  Slant is offline
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Originally Posted by Shagnasty
I think it is part of their job and therefore it is their business. Pharmacists are the ones that can catch multiple prescriptions for the same drug from different doctors and all the other standard tricks. They go to school for a long time so that they can catch potential adverse drug interactions as well as mistakes by doctors. They aren't there just to silently fill whatever comes across their counter.
Are addicts really goofy enough to take the 5 scrips by 5 different doctors in to the same pharmacist in the same month?
I'm in a mid-sized city and I probably have at least a half-dozen non-related pharmacy chains within a 10 mile drive.
Oh well. I was born paranoid, but still, I can't imagine people being THAT goofy.
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Old 11-24-2006, 07:49 PM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Slant
Are addicts really goofy enough to take the 5 scrips by 5 different doctors in to the same pharmacist in the same month?
I'm in a mid-sized city and I probably have at least a half-dozen non-related pharmacy chains within a 10 mile drive.
Oh well. I was born paranoid, but still, I can't imagine people being THAT goofy.
Addicts can do the damnedest things. Usually they're pretty crafty, but as they get worn down by their addiction, desperation often wins out.

I speak from both professional and personal knowledge on the subject.
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Old 11-24-2006, 07:51 PM
Shagnasty Shagnasty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Slant
Are addicts really goofy enough to take the 5 scrips by 5 different doctors in to the same pharmacist in the same month?
I'm in a mid-sized city and I probably have at least a half-dozen non-related pharmacy chains within a 10 mile drive.
Oh well. I was born paranoid, but still, I can't imagine people being THAT goofy.
You don't read the papers much do you?

They don't expect to catch all of them but they do have to be aware of that some people may try to do this and the pharmacist is supposed to catch it. You forget about small towns that may only have one or two pharmacies. They may not also be aware that most chains like CVS and Wal-Mart have systems that compares subscription fills across the whole chain.
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Old 11-24-2006, 08:16 PM
diggleblop diggleblop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyfoxfyre
And I also find this suspicious, as any typical dosage of any hydrocodone script wouldn't last you two weeks. And nobody would have reasonably put #15 in for a 30 day supply, so he was within reason to give you your script back. Just so you know, when your insurance rejects your claim saying that it's too soon, it typically tells us when and how many your last fill was for. #15 fourteen days prior wouldn't have been enough to make him deny your script.

Not calling you a liar, just saying that we are careful but not Nazis about it.
Perhaps you have your timeline confused.

What happens is that my insurance will only pay for Hydrocodone once a month, not matter what quantity, 15 or 120 count. Sucks, but when it came time for my large script, it stated that I already had a hydrocodone fill for the month of October.
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Old 11-24-2006, 08:24 PM
tomndebb tomndebb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan
In some states, I do believe that Schedule II drugs (oxycodone, morphine, demerol, methadone, et al) need to be written on duplicate (or even triplicate) scrips, and a copy kept at the doctor's office, and perhaps turned into someone somewhere. But my state doesn't do that, so I'm unaware of the mechanics of it.

Perhaps some doc who practices where that is done can elaborate on the process.
My son's psychiatrist fills out his scedule II prescriptions on self-carboning paper and tapes the under copy directly into my son's records book. (He may do the same thing for every prescription just to be safe, but I know he does it for the schedule II meds.)

I don't recall seeing a third copy during the process.
As noted, I do not know whether this is Ohio law or CYA.
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Old 11-24-2006, 08:42 PM
Hirka T'Bawa Hirka T'Bawa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Slant
Are addicts really goofy enough to take the 5 scrips by 5 different doctors in to the same pharmacist in the same month?
I'm in a mid-sized city and I probably have at least a half-dozen non-related pharmacy chains within a 10 mile drive.
Oh well. I was born paranoid, but still, I can't imagine people being THAT goofy.

You would be surprised. We've had people doctor shop, and bring in the same script from 3 diffrent doctors, in less then a month. We've even had forgers who have been arrested at our store, and then tried passing a forgery again after she got out of prison.
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Old 11-24-2006, 09:19 PM
SCSimmons SCSimmons is offline
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Originally Posted by diggleblop
What happens is that my insurance will only pay for Hydrocodone once a month, not matter what quantity, 15 or 120 count. Sucks, but when it came time for my large script, it stated that I already had a hydrocodone fill for the month of October.
Not that it helps you now, but ... Your insurance company's PBM's pharmacists almost certainly have the authority to override that. It's a matter of complaining loudly enough, long enough, to the right people.
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  #30  
Old 11-24-2006, 10:27 PM
BobT BobT is offline
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California has three part NCR forms for schedule II drugs. I was given one to pick up for morphine for my mother who was in the end stages of cancer. The doctor filled out wrong the first time and I had to wander around the hospital to get it filled out right.

Every time we got morphine, we had to receive a new prescription form and we had to take it to the pharmacy. Fortunately, we didn't have to do this too many times. We had some left over, which we flushed down the toilet. I hope the sewer enjoyed it.
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Old 11-25-2006, 01:08 AM
ladyfoxfyre ladyfoxfyre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diggleblop
What happens is that my insurance will only pay for Hydrocodone once a month, not matter what quantity, 15 or 120 count. Sucks, but when it came time for my large script, it stated that I already had a hydrocodone fill for the month of October.
Okay, then in that case the RPh must have been under the assumption (given the information on the rejection, i.e. "Too soon until Nov 1st") that you had enough to last you until the end of the month, which that typically means.
Sorry if it seemed like I was calling you out, just curious about the specifics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Slant
Are addicts really goofy enough to take the 5 scrips by 5 different doctors in to the same pharmacist in the same month?
My SOP on all CII scripts is to central search that name and DOB to see if 1) they have multiple profiles, which would be the first indication of a scam ("No, I've never been here before, you'll have to add me as a new customer. Insurance? No, I don't have any, I'll be paying cash...") and 2) to see if they have had another narc filled within the past couple days. Of course, there are ways around these checks but if you have too many profiles at too many pharmacies with too many different DOB's, things tend to get confusing. Pushers and/or addicts like to keep things simple, I'd imagine.

We typically know who these patients are depending on the size of the pharmacy, and we know who tries to get their controlled meds early. The other thing is that if we have any suspicion about the validity of a script, we can refuse to fill it at any time.
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  #32  
Old 11-25-2006, 10:02 AM
Eva Luna Eva Luna is offline
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Not that this is relevant to narcotics, but I have had a pharmacist give a terribly hard time to someone who was picking up a prescription refill for me. I'd had a post-surgical deep vein thrombosis and was on anticoagulants (Coumadin) for a while.

Those of you familiar with Coumadin know that it's very difficult to get the dosage adjusted properly: it can vary with all sorts of factors from diet to level of physical activity, and I was having blood tests every couple of days for a while to make sure I wouldn't a) end up with another blood clot or b) bleed to death. So my doctor prescribed 1 mg tablets, but the lab would give the test results to my doctor who would then adjust the dosage accordingly - it ranged anywhere from 1 mg to 10 mg a day over the course of my treatment.

However, when my boyfriend went to the pharmacy to refill the prescription (which had been based on the 1 mg/day dosage), they told him it was too soon and to come back in 2 weeks. Who the hell gets addicted to Coumadin? I could have been dead in 2 weeks! It took quite a number of phone calls to straighten it out.
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Old 11-25-2006, 07:07 PM
Hirka T'Bawa Hirka T'Bawa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eva Luna
However, when my boyfriend went to the pharmacy to refill the prescription (which had been based on the 1 mg/day dosage), they told him it was too soon and to come back in 2 weeks. Who the hell gets addicted to Coumadin? I could have been dead in 2 weeks! It took quite a number of phone calls to straighten it out.
We run into this at my pharmacy occasionally. The problem is that the insurance company thinks it filled a script for a one month supply. So they won't pay for the refill until the month is over. Technically, the Doctor is suppost to call you in a new script when he/she changes your dosages. Now, for some drugs (like your coumadin) where you change it every day, that can be hard, but that is what your insurance company wants.

If your boyfriend entered the pharmacy I work at with that problem, I would have told him he can ever wait the 2 weeks, have the Doctor call in a new script, or pay cash. Since Coumadin isn't controlled, we don't really care if you want to pick it up early.
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Old 11-25-2006, 08:17 PM
David Simmons David Simmons is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan
Addicts can do the damnedest things.
Can't they though. My wife worked in a one man pharmacy years ago. The was a woman who came in every day for a bottle of codeine-turpenhydrate (sp?) cough medicine. By law, one a day was the limit. A prescriction wasn't needed but you had to sign a register to make sure one a day was all you were getting. The pharmacist discovered that she was also getting a bottle from the other pharmacy in town and refused to sell her any more.
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  #35  
Old 11-25-2006, 09:01 PM
SusanStoHelit SusanStoHelit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCSimmons
Not that it helps you now, but ... Your insurance company's PBM's pharmacists almost certainly have the authority to override that. It's a matter of complaining loudly enough, long enough, to the right people.
More specifically, if you can get your pharmacist or doctor to call your insurance company they can override it. Or you could just pay for it yourself. 15 generic Vicodin should cost less than $10.
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  #36  
Old 11-26-2006, 08:42 AM
MizGrand MizGrand is offline
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Interesting stuff here.

I'm on day seven of being clean of hydro. Had a breakdown last week due to the jones and ended up in the hospital. It was tough. I'm also in the midst of a major depression because taking the hydro for almost two years led me to believe I didn't need my anti-depressants any longer.

From what I've read from diggle, I'm hoping he's (?) not following my route. Detox from painkillers is hard. I was taking waaay too many and getting them online from several different websites. All told, I think I was taking over 300 pills a month. I'm now pretty deeply in debt, my husband doesn't trust me and I really have no energy or motivation to speak of. I'm so angry at the unethical practices of these online "doctors" who are no doubt making money hand over fist by feeding people's sicknesses. Major shame on them.

What I don't understand though, and I'd be interested in other's experiences - is why I got wired off the hydro? Just about everyone else who's had an opinion has told me that the med made them drowsy. Not me. It made me go-go-go. I liked that, a lot. Now I'm wondering if there are any legitimate vitamins or supplements that will provide just a hint of energy for me. I've two small kids and want to be involved with them, right now I don't know if I can do it. Any thoughts?
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  #37  
Old 11-26-2006, 09:01 AM
SusanStoHelit SusanStoHelit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSSchen
Interesting stuff here.

I'm on day seven of being clean of hydro. Had a breakdown last week due to the jones and ended up in the hospital. It was tough. I'm also in the midst of a major depression because taking the hydro for almost two years led me to believe I didn't need my anti-depressants any longer.

From what I've read from diggle, I'm hoping he's (?) not following my route. Detox from painkillers is hard. I was taking waaay too many and getting them online from several different websites. All told, I think I was taking over 300 pills a month. I'm now pretty deeply in debt, my husband doesn't trust me and I really have no energy or motivation to speak of. I'm so angry at the unethical practices of these online "doctors" who are no doubt making money hand over fist by feeding people's sicknesses. Major shame on them.

What I don't understand though, and I'd be interested in other's experiences - is why I got wired off the hydro? Just about everyone else who's had an opinion has told me that the med made them drowsy. Not me. It made me go-go-go. I liked that, a lot. Now I'm wondering if there are any legitimate vitamins or supplements that will provide just a hint of energy for me. I've two small kids and want to be involved with them, right now I don't know if I can do it. Any thoughts?

Euphoria is one of the listed side effects of hydrocodone (I assume that's what you mean by hydro). These effects are said to be increased when you combine them with alcohol. Your lack of energy could be caused by the withdrawal symptoms, your depression, or some other medical condition. Or it could be the fact that you have two munchkins running you ragged.

IANADoctor of course, but I would really urge you to find a good doctor to help you come off the hydrocodone and figure this out. It also concerns me that you are still looking for a chemical solution to your problems. Taking an antidepressant to correct an imbalance is one thing, but if a vitamin or supplement will be a strictly temporary solution and you'll be back where you started. Have you thought about about NarcAnon?
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  #38  
Old 11-26-2006, 09:35 AM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is online now
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Actual endogenous depression is next to impossible to diagnose while a person is on mood-altering drugs like opiates. Only once a person is off such drugs for at least a few months is it possible to meaningfully diagnose primary mood disorders, rather than mood disorders secondary to substance abuse effects.

Otherwise, RSSchen, been there and done that. It sucks. The only way that worked for me was forced abstinence of all mood-altering drugs (alcohol, opiates, etc) in a treatment setting under the supervision of an addictionist (physician specializing in chemical dependency), coupled with intense mutual-help group attendance (the likes of AA, NA, etc).

I'd urge you to find such a doc yourself, or at the very least get to NA or similar groups.

I still go to meetings, and I've been clean and sober over since 1990.
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  #39  
Old 11-27-2006, 01:16 PM
Zakalwe Zakalwe is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan
I still go to meetings, and I've been clean and sober over since 1990.
Just a quick hijack to say how unbelievably impressed I am with QtM's honesty and willingness to use his own experiences as a force for good. You are an asset to this board, sir.

In case it's been a while since you've heard it, Qadgop.
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  #40  
Old 11-27-2006, 01:31 PM
diggleblop diggleblop is offline
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[QUOTE=RSSchen]Interesting stuff here.

I'm on day seven of being clean of hydro. Had a breakdown last week due to the jones and ended up in the hospital. It was tough. I'm also in the midst of a major depression because taking the hydro for almost two years led me to believe I didn't need my anti-depressants any longer.

From what I've read from diggle, I'm hoping he's (?) not following my route. Detox from painkillers is hard. I was taking waaay too many and getting them online from several different websites. All told, I think I was taking over 300 pills a month. I'm now pretty deeply in debt, my husband doesn't trust me and I really have no energy or motivation to speak of. I'm so angry at the unethical practices of these online "doctors" who are no doubt making money hand over fist by [quoTE]

I have detoxed off painkillers three times. Every single time it was extremely uncomfortable, but not deadly. Last time I ended up in the hospital because I had a panic attack and it freaked me out and got my heart up to about 175 bpm. After about four days the sickness goes away, but it takes about a month to start to feel normal.

I always go back to the narcotics because it's the only thing to help me with my pain, I've tried everything else and nothing works except hydrocodone. Oxycodone makes me too sleepy, too. Anyways, best of luck to ya !
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  #41  
Old 11-27-2006, 05:11 PM
HMS Irruncible HMS Irruncible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSSchen
What I don't understand though, and I'd be interested in other's experiences - is why I got wired off the hydro? Just about everyone else who's had an opinion has told me that the med made them drowsy. Not me. It made me go-go-go. I liked that, a lot. Now I'm wondering if there are any legitimate vitamins or supplements that will provide just a hint of energy for me. I've two small kids and want to be involved with them, right now I don't know if I can do it. Any thoughts?
You may want to consider ibogaine treatment as well. There is ample documentation about its effectiveness in interrupting narcotic addiction without withdrawal symptoms within a matter of hours. Americans are unfortunate because it's not legal in the US; however if you're in Canada you're in luck because there's a very good treatment center there. There are actually centers all over the world, of varying quality. It can be a bit pricey though. If you like, feel free to email me with inquiries about the nature of the treatment, and where you can seek it legally (outside the US only). I'm not a provider nor affiliated with one, but I do know quite a bit about this subject.
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  #42  
Old 11-27-2006, 05:15 PM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is online now
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Getting off of opiates is hard.

Staying off of them is much harder, for many folks.
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  #43  
Old 11-27-2006, 05:21 PM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakalwe
Just a quick hijack to say how unbelievably impressed I am with QtM's honesty and willingness to use his own experiences as a force for good.
One must share one's experience, strength, and hope if one is to remain sober.
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  #44  
Old 11-28-2006, 01:46 AM
Santo Rugger Santo Rugger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diggleblop
I have detoxed off painkillers three times. Every single time it was extremely uncomfortable, but not deadly.
I'm going to have to throw the bullshit flag on tihs one...
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  #45  
Old 11-28-2006, 06:30 AM
Billdo Billdo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pygmy Rugger
I'm going to have to throw the bullshit flag on tihs one...
You think he did, in fact, die from the withdrawal?
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  #46  
Old 11-28-2006, 07:17 AM
HMS Irruncible HMS Irruncible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billdo
You think he did, in fact, die from the withdrawal?
I'll take a wild guess and say the doubt was over some nature of the detox, not the actual death of the alleged poster.
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  #47  
Old 11-28-2006, 07:46 AM
StuffLikeThatThere StuffLikeThatThere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Slant
Are addicts really goofy enough to take the 5 scrips by 5 different doctors in to the same pharmacist in the same month?
I'm in a mid-sized city and I probably have at least a half-dozen non-related pharmacy chains within a 10 mile drive.
Oh well. I was born paranoid, but still, I can't imagine people being THAT goofy.
Sometimes pharmacists also talk to each other.

I don't know what it would be like in a large city, but in the small town I grew up in, the pharmacies were always borrowing things from each other -- say a patient came in for an ointment that you'd just run out of. The pharmacist told a trusty tech (that would be me) to call around and see if anyone else had some. If so, I'd zip over there to pick it up, and make the customer happy. When the order came in restocking us, I'd return it.

Information got passed back and forth in the same way. If someone seemed to be getting too many control prescriptions, or pushing the envelope a little, the pharmacists would call back and forth to see if the patient was pharmacy-hopping. I'm sure some stuff still got through, but there were a fair amount of people that got very gentle "I'm sorry. You just filled a prescription for this last week at XXX down the road" answers.

Small town pharmacists also tend to know, to a certain extent, what's going on in their patient's lives. If you've heard from an upset customer earlier in the week that Auntie Greta's cancer has progressed and they've called hospice, you're unlikely to wonder why Auntie Greta's husband is bringing in a morphine scrip for her. I'm sure this helps sort the sheep from the goats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Simmons
Can't they though. My wife worked in a one man pharmacy years ago. The was a woman who came in every day for a bottle of codeine-turpenhydrate (sp?) cough medicine. By law, one a day was the limit. A prescriction wasn't needed but you had to sign a register to make sure one a day was all you were getting. The pharmacist discovered that she was also getting a bottle from the other pharmacy in town and refused to sell her any more.
We had a guy come in and buy a bottle, go out, and come back in five minutes later with the empty, cracked bottle. He said that he dropped it in the parking lot. The pharmacist asked why then, there was no syrup on the bag he was carrying it in. "Oh," said he. "Whoops." and slunk away, no doubt to another pharmacy where he perfected the routine.
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  #48  
Old 11-28-2006, 09:31 AM
diggleblop diggleblop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pygmy Rugger
I'm going to have to throw the bullshit flag on tihs one...

Sorry, I meant to say "but not life threatening". I was in a hurry. I love how you guys have everything I say under a microscope around here. ha.
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  #49  
Old 11-28-2006, 09:42 AM
Trunk Trunk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brain Wreck
I'll take a wild guess and say the doubt was over some nature of the detox, not the actual death of the alleged poster.
I'm going to take a wilder guess and say that since he actually BOLDED the "deadly" part, he was just cracking a joke.

Good thread. I come from a family of pharmacists, and like others have said, they're just not pill dispensers doing a doctor's bidding.

Also, don't you people who take a lot of these opiates get the crazy dreams?

I had knee surgery once, and was prescribed Oxycodone. I was taking it with beers which was nice. I kept a pretty nice buzz going for a couple days, but then the DREAMS started.

I had the freakiest, craziest, scariest, mind altering dreams. I still get chills thinking about them and that was years ago. I was still in an incredible amount of pain, but I said "fuck this" and just started hitting the aspirin. It didn't help, but at least the dreams went away. Also, a little marijuana was better than any of it. What a drug.
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  #50  
Old 11-28-2006, 11:23 AM
Mr. Slant Mr.  Slant is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuffLikeThatThere
Sometimes pharmacists also talk to each other.
SNIP
Anyone know if what he just described would run afoul of HIPAA?
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