Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-10-2006, 05:33 PM
ltfire is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: E 161 St. and River Ave.
Posts: 1,765

Hands are lethel weapons?


Do professional boxers have to register their hands as lethal weapons?
  #2  
Old 12-10-2006, 05:45 PM
Loach's Avatar
Loach is offline
The Central Scrutinizer
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Pork Roll/Taylor Ham
Posts: 24,967
I can't tell you about all 50 states but round these parts the only weapons that must be registered are handguns. You can have knives, swords, catapults or pointed sticks without registering. You're hands are safe from government control.
  #3  
Old 12-10-2006, 05:46 PM
Loach's Avatar
Loach is offline
The Central Scrutinizer
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Pork Roll/Taylor Ham
Posts: 24,967
your
  #4  
Old 12-10-2006, 06:29 PM
pravnik is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: TX
Posts: 13,386
In short, no. Boxers have to be licensed by the state to compete professionally, but the old story about boxers and martial artists having to "register" their hands and/or feet as lethal weapons is an urban legend. If nothing else, there would be a problem with the state's burden of proof that one had reached such a level of ass-kicking ability such that one is no longer merely dangerous but must register as truly lethal, not to mention the question as to whether one must file for a concealed-carry permit to wear mittens. Your average pocketknife is many times more lethal than than your fists, and you don't even need to show ID when you buy it, much less register it.
  #5  
Old 12-10-2006, 06:47 PM
R. P. McMurphy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by pravnik
In short, no. Boxers have to be licensed by the state to compete professionally, but the old story about boxers and martial artists having to "register" their hands and/or feet as lethal weapons is an urban legend. If nothing else, there would be a problem with the state's burden of proof that one had reached such a level of ass-kicking ability such that one is no longer merely dangerous but must register as truly lethal, not to mention the question as to whether one must file for a concealed-carry permit to wear mittens. Your average pocketknife is many times more lethal than than your fists, and you don't even need to show ID when you buy it, much less register it.
That's not true. I personally know an amateur boxer in New York City and he had to register his hands. Of course, he didn't want to do it and tried to put it off as long as possible. If he is involved in an altercation and hits someone with a fist his culpability increases dramatically. It's not an urban legend.
  #6  
Old 12-10-2006, 06:51 PM
MEBuckner's Avatar
MEBuckner is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Posts: 11,907
They'll take my hands when they pry them from...um....
  #7  
Old 12-10-2006, 06:54 PM
susan's Avatar
susan is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Coastal USA
Posts: 9,317
One's own, attached body parts are not included in the legal definition of "weapons" in my jurisdiction.
  #8  
Old 12-10-2006, 07:08 PM
pravnik is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: TX
Posts: 13,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartydog
That's not true. I personally know an amateur boxer in New York City and he had to register his hands. Of course, he didn't want to do it and tried to put it off as long as possible. If he is involved in an altercation and hits someone with a fist his culpability increases dramatically. It's not an urban legend.
Are you sure he wasn't just talking about getting his boxing license? I know dozens of amateur boxers, kickboxers, and MMA fighters, including a former IKF national heavyweight champion, and never met a one who had to register their hands as "lethal weapons" just to walk around in broad daylight. There's no such law in Texas or any other state I'm aware of. It's possible to have a deadly weapon finding in an aggravated assault case in which only hands or feet are used, but that applies to everybody, not just sport fighters. If New York State has a law that boxers must register their hands as deadly weapons, I'd sure love to see it.
  #9  
Old 12-10-2006, 07:23 PM
Valgard is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartydog
That's not true. I personally know an amateur boxer in New York City and he had to register his hands. Of course, he didn't want to do it and tried to put it off as long as possible. If he is involved in an altercation and hits someone with a fist his culpability increases dramatically. It's not an urban legend.
Did you personally witness some police or government official telling him that he had to do this, or did he tell you (or did a FOAF tell you) that he had to do this?

According to this urban legend site, it's an urban legend:

http://tafkac.org/faq2k/legal_2007.html

However a person's expertise in unarmed combat can be a factor if they are involved in some kind of fight, but that's not the same thing.

I did find plenty of martial arts discussion boards where police officers said that if someone came in to "register their hands as a lethal weapon" they would definitely remember the person as a nutjob.

I searched all over the place including the NY State Athletic Commission (which governs boxing in NY state) and various boxing websites and wikis and found zero mention of any requirement to register yourself as a weapon. The logistics of this kind of thing boggle the mind...is a master of Tai Chi more or less lethal than a good boxer? How about arts that don't use belts to track progression?

Boxers certainly have to be registered to compete (professionals need a license, for example) but that's a totally different issue.

SpartyDog, got a cite for this?
  #10  
Old 12-10-2006, 07:37 PM
pkbites's Avatar
pkbites is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Majikal Land O' Cheeze!
Posts: 10,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valgard
I did find plenty of martial arts discussion boards where police officers said that if someone came in to "register their hands as a lethal weapon" they would definitely remember the person as a nutjob.
I was at a lawn party some years ago when this woman whom I did not know was bragging about how her son had a black belt (which I later learned to be true) and she was required to go into the police department and register his hands as lethal weapons. I immediately burst out laughing and said "that was you? Officer so&so told me about this woman who came in last week insisting it was the law for her son to register his hands, and then argued like crazy when they told her it wasn't". Boy, did she get pissed, asking how we could call ourselves cops when we didn't know what the law was! That was a funny, funny encounter!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartydog
That's not true. I personally know an amateur boxer in New York City and he had to register his hands. Of course, he didn't want to do it and tried to put it off as long as possible. If he is involved in an altercation and hits someone with a fist his culpability increases dramatically. It's not an urban legend.
Bullshit!
  #11  
Old 12-10-2006, 07:38 PM
monica is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,600
Can you imagine how that would go with modern-day flight security? "I'm sorry, sir, but you are not allowed to bring those into the passenger cabin. We're going to have to confiscate them."
  #12  
Old 12-10-2006, 07:57 PM
Sleel is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Japan
Posts: 2,809
The short answer: no.

I've been doing martial arts for about half my life and the only people I've heard who talk about this are the same kind of weirdoes who give martial arts a bad image.
  #13  
Old 12-10-2006, 08:50 PM
Operation Ripper is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Skylab
Posts: 1,954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartydog
That's not true. I personally know an amateur boxer in New York City and he had to register his hands. Of course, he didn't want to do it and tried to put it off as long as possible. If he is involved in an altercation and hits someone with a fist his culpability increases dramatically. It's not an urban legend.
No, he didn't.
  #14  
Old 12-10-2006, 08:56 PM
Thalion is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: At the beach
Posts: 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartydog
That's not true. I personally know an amateur boxer in New York City and he had to register his hands. Of course, he didn't want to do it and tried to put it off as long as possible. If he is involved in an altercation and hits someone with a fist his culpability increases dramatically. It's not an urban legend.
I'll join everyone else in calling BS on this. Can you produce a cite, such as a New York state or city law, that requires such a registration? When a friend tells you something is true without support, that is pretty much the definition of an urban legend.
  #15  
Old 12-10-2006, 09:29 PM
Gfactor is offline
Moderator
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 9,490
"There exists a popular American belief that martial artists must register their hands as deadly weapons with the police department. Whatever the source of this "modern myth," its survival and propogation has been adided by uninformed martial artists as well as uninformed laypersons. A 1968 survey categorically and unequivocally denied that karateka had to 'register their hands as deadly weapon.'" Brown, Carl, American Law and the Trained Fighter (1983)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartydog
I personally know an amateur boxer in New York City and he had to register his hands.
Quote:
12. "Deadly weapon" means any loaded weapon from which a shot, readily
capable of producing death or other serious physical injury, may be
discharged, or a switchblade knife, gravity knife, pilum ballistic
knife, metal knuckle knife, dagger, billy, blackjack, or metal knuckles.
New York Penal Code 10.00: http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LA...7+&TARGET=VIEW
  #16  
Old 12-10-2006, 09:32 PM
R. P. McMurphy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,883
I'm probably guilty of overstatement. My understanding is that in the state of New York, a boxer that participates in a promoted bout has to register with the NY State Athletic Commission. No, the "hands" are not registered per se, but the hands are usually attached to the combatant.

The point being that the registration can influence a civil or criminal case. Many of these fighters are from environments and neighborhoods that are not all that desirable. They do not want to be automatically portrayed as a dangerous instigator in the event that they are in the wrong place at the wrong time. In a legal dispute the other side will use the registration as evidence to convince a judge or jury that the registered individual had the capability of being highly dangerous.
  #17  
Old 12-10-2006, 09:59 PM
Gfactor is offline
Moderator
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 9,490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartydog
I'm probably guilty of overstatement. My understanding is that in the state of New York, a boxer that participates in a promoted bout has to register with the NY State Athletic Commission. No, the "hands" are not registered per se, but the hands are usually attached to the combatant.

The point being that the registration can influence a civil or criminal case. Many of these fighters are from environments and neighborhoods that are not all that desirable. They do not want to be automatically portrayed as a dangerous instigator in the event that they are in the wrong place at the wrong time. In a legal dispute the other side will use the registration as evidence to convince a judge or jury that the registered individual had the capability of being highly dangerous.

Quote:
Our jurisprudence also reflects that, although the Penal Law invoked criminal [***866] liability for innocuous objects capable of causing physical harm, a person's body was never considered to fall within the statute's scope. In People v Adamkiewicz (298 NY 176), this Court assessed whether a particular item was dangerous in terms of its use in a given circumstance. There, the Court was construing Penal Law 1897 (carrying and use [*403] of dangerous weapon). The statute set forth two categories of "dangerous weapon[s]": one, an itemized list of objects, and the second enumerating various types of items as well as "any other dangerous or deadly instrument, or weapon." The Court held that the second category was broad enough to include an ice pick "because of its obviously inherent dangerous and lethal character" ( id., at 178).

The following year, in People v Vollmer (299 NY 347), this Court held that the defendant could not be found to have used a dangerous instrument under the first degree manslaughter statute when he beat a man to death with his bare hands, because "[w]hen the Legislature talks of a 'dangerous weapon', it means something quite different from the bare fist of an ordinary man" ( id., at 350, citing 1937 Report of NY Law Rev Commn, at 731; also citing, People v Adamkiewicz, supra, and other cases). The People would have us ignore Vollmer (and the historical development of the dangerous instrument concept) on the basis that the 1967 revision of the Penal Law greatly expanded the dangerous instrument concept. As indicated, however, that is simply not the case.

Nor can the argument be made that by the "ordinary man" language in Vollmer the Court meant to leave the door open to the possibility that the hands of a boxer or martial arts expert could constitute dangerous instruments (see, dissenting opn, at 411). This would create an interesting anomaly itself, insofar as the defendant in Vollmer beat the victim to death with his "ordinary" hands. An "extraordinary man" rule would create increased criminal liability for use of a dangerous instrument where a heavyweight champion merely threatens a blow (see, Penal Law 10.00 [13] [definition of dangerous instrument includes use or "threatened" use]), but not where an ordinary man beats another to death. Vollmer sensibly avoided such a strained interpretation by concluding fists are not dangerous instruments. This conclusion was reached not because the defendant's fists, as utilized under those circumstances, were not readily capable of causing death (they in fact did), but because they were simply his hands, nothing more.
People v. Owusu,
93 N.Y.2d 398; 712 N.E.2d 1228; 690 N.Y.S.2d 863; 1999 N.Y. LEXIS 1135 (1999): http://www.law.cornell.edu/nyctap/I99_0080.htm

Of course, fighting ability can sometimes influence the proportionality of the respons if the defendant claims self defense. Cf., http://ittendojo.org/articles/general-4.htm
  #18  
Old 12-10-2006, 10:00 PM
Operation Ripper is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Skylab
Posts: 1,954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartydog
I'm probably guilty of overstatement.
Hehe, no, you are just completely wrong.
  #19  
Old 12-10-2006, 10:02 PM
Clothahump is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 14,654
I'm a 5th Degree Black Belt in Taekwondo. Please believe me when I tell you that the hand registering thing is an urban legend.
  #20  
Old 12-10-2006, 10:08 PM
robardin is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Flushing, NY
Posts: 4,685
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clothahump
I'm a 5th Degree Black Belt in Taekwondo. Please believe me when I tell you that the hand registering thing is an urban legend.
And it ain't cool bein' no jive turkey, so close to Thanksgiving.

...Yeah!
  #21  
Old 12-10-2006, 10:59 PM
DrCube is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Caseyville, IL
Posts: 7,187
You could snap someones neck and kill them even if you aren't very strong. Also, I guess if you knocked someone out on the first or second punch, you could probably keep beating them to death if they didn't wake up and fight back. Since this is the case, I don't see why we all don't have to register our hands. They are pretty dangerous whether you are a boxer or not.
  #22  
Old 12-10-2006, 11:10 PM
Taber is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,993
I concur. We need a list of everyone with hands, in case someone commits a crime with their hands, so we'll have a list of the suspects.
  #23  
Old 12-10-2006, 11:35 PM
Valgard is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartydog
I'm probably guilty of overstatement. My understanding is that in the state of New York, a boxer that participates in a promoted bout has to register with the NY State Athletic Commission. No, the "hands" are not registered per se, but the hands are usually attached to the combatant.
Yeah, but the registration has nothing to do with being a weapon, deadly or otherwise. It's to make sure that you are of age, are mentally & physically fit to compete, that kind of thing. When my friend competed in a bicycle race the other month he had to register with the organizers, same sort of deal.
  #24  
Old 12-10-2006, 11:37 PM
susan's Avatar
susan is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Coastal USA
Posts: 9,317
And paws. Just in case.
  #25  
Old 12-10-2006, 11:54 PM
drachillix is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: 192.168.0.1
Posts: 9,899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clothahump
I'm a 5th Degree Black Belt in Taekwondo. Please believe me when I tell you that the hand registering thing is an urban legend.
Per a friend of mine this is very much correct, however she did point out what has been posted by other dopers that if she was involved in a violent altercation it could be said that she wields deadly force hand to hand by default, whereas the average joe on the street is less capable of crippling or killing with a few well placed hits making it hard to claim the average joe intended to kill or was even capable of killing bare handed.
  #26  
Old 12-10-2006, 11:57 PM
Martin Hyde is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gfactor
People v. Owusu,
93 N.Y.2d 398; 712 N.E.2d 1228; 690 N.Y.S.2d 863; 1999 N.Y. LEXIS 1135 (1999): http://www.law.cornell.edu/nyctap/I99_0080.htm

Of course, fighting ability can sometimes influence the proportionality of the respons if the defendant claims self defense. Cf., http://ittendojo.org/articles/general-4.htm
In Spartydog's defense (and I'll admitted he definitely worded his initial post badly) in the post you quoted he was not reasserting the claim that his friend had to register himself or his hands as a deadly weapon, nor was he asserting that in New York a boxer is considered a deadly or lethal weapon or that a boxer's hand is considered as such. Making me question the relevance of the citations you used in direct response to the post in question.

Spartydog, in his second post, asserted that being a licensed boxer could create a negative perception, and I think that's quite obviously true. I don't find it hard to believe at all that a police officer investigating a case in which a boxer is a suspect might have some sort of preconceived opinion on someone simply because they are a prizefighter.

Nor do I think it's a stretch to assume someone on a jury might have similar preconceived opinions.
  #27  
Old 12-11-2006, 02:00 AM
chowder is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Manchester, England
Posts: 7,592
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clothahump
I'm a 5th Degree Black Belt in Taekwondo. Please believe me when I tell you that the hand registering thing is an urban legend.
I once heard that experts in martial arts had to carry a card which in the event of any altercation outside of competition they were supposed to show to their opponent.

Is this also an UL?
  #28  
Old 12-11-2006, 06:44 AM
R. P. McMurphy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valgard
Yeah, but the registration has nothing to do with being a weapon, deadly or otherwise. It's to make sure that you are of age, are mentally & physically fit to compete, that kind of thing. When my friend competed in a bicycle race the other month he had to register with the organizers, same sort of deal.
Cummon, at least I admitted my overstatement.

Registering with the organizer of an event and registering with the state athletic commission are two entirely different things. Registering with the athletic commision puts you on the public record and into their data base. They have the power to decide whether you can compete. Yes, the purpose is to oversee the health and competence of the fighters but it is public record, nonetheless.
  #29  
Old 12-11-2006, 08:01 AM
Loach's Avatar
Loach is offline
The Central Scrutinizer
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Pork Roll/Taylor Ham
Posts: 24,967
Quote:
Originally Posted by chowder
I once heard that experts in martial arts had to carry a card which in the event of any altercation outside of competition they were supposed to show to their opponent.

Is this also an UL?
It's printed on the reverse side of the ace of spades. They have to throw it on the lifeless body when they are done.

Yes it's a UL.
  #30  
Old 12-11-2006, 09:52 AM
AskNott is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Anderson, IN,USA
Posts: 14,877
Gosh. I suppose that also nullifies the story about the impotent man getting a rape charge reduced to "assault with a dead weapon."
  #31  
Old 12-11-2006, 10:01 AM
BMalion is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 9,716
However, we ninjas are required to be paid up on our union dues or risk censure.
  #32  
Old 01-04-2007, 08:09 PM
mangeorge is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 14,089
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEBuckner
They'll take my hands when they pry them from...um....
I wanted to say that!
But, as long as you're here;
delete, please

Peace,
mangeorge
__________________
Stop smoking. Do it!
Neither Windshield nor Bug am I.
Give us br'er rabbits.
  #33  
Old 01-04-2007, 08:32 PM
mangeorge is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 14,089
Quote:
Originally Posted by AskNott
Gosh. I suppose that also nullifies the story about the impotent man getting a rape charge reduced to "assault with a dead weapon."
No, no, no.
That was Charro's grounds for divorce from Xavier Cugat.
Really!
But she did have to register her, um,
Anyway
  #34  
Old 01-05-2007, 01:00 AM
sleestak is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sin City
Posts: 3,848
In Nevada they have some sort of list of people with serious marital arts skills and or fighters. Either that or they really didn't like the look of one guy I was with.

My Ex-Roommate (who also happened to be a total ass, but that is another story) had a 9th degree black belt. I don't remember which paricular art he did. He fought professionally in Vegas and elsewhere. Anyway, one day we were driving down the street and he got pulled over for a broken tail light. I was with him. The cops, when they walked to the door, asked him for his license, looked at it and asked him to get out of the truck and as soon as he did the cop stated that they were going to cuff him for everyones safety. They asked me for my DL, which I gave them. They ran my DL as well. They did not cuff me even though they had me get out of the car as well . One cop went back to the car and wrote a ticket. They gave him a ticket then uncuffed him and we went on our way.

It was strange because the very first thing the cops did was restrain my ex-roommate. According to him, when they run his license it shows that he is a fighter, probably through the Nevada Athletic Commision. He did not have any other issues that might cause the cops to cuff him, like a warrant. They gave him a minor ticket and let him go. He said that it happens everytime he gets pulled over.

I've been pulled over multiple times, either by myself or with someone else and this was the first and only time that I have seen cops immediately cuff someone for a minor moving violation.

Now it could be that the cops on this occasion just cuffed him for a totally unrealted reason, like thinking he was a suspect for another crime. It was, however, odd in that they cuffed him, wrote a ticket and then un-cuffed him.

Slee
  #35  
Old 01-05-2007, 01:17 AM
mangeorge is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 14,089
Doesn't seem like handcuffs would be all that much of a restraint to a 9th degree in any of the martial arts.
More likely to me would be that he had a history of giving the cops a hard time.
I know you can get on a "felony asshole" list for annoying a cop. I was on the list for dating a girl who had went out with a deputy only once and didn't want any more. He pulled me over and told me that it wasn't smart to mess with a "cop's woman"
I couldn't get away with shit for six months. Traffic wise, that is.
  #36  
Old 01-05-2007, 01:45 AM
groman is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 3,514
The first thing that comes to mind when I hear this is "Why in the world would you have to register a deadly weapon?" The only thing you typically register is handguns. Hands are not a handgun. My car, my kitchen knife, my guitar, my pocket knife, my baseball bat, the week old loaf of sourdough are all deadly weapons and I can assure you none of them have to be registered as a deadly weapon in any state. Why would you have to register hands?
  #37  
Old 01-05-2007, 01:49 AM
groman is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 3,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by mangeorge
Doesn't seem like handcuffs would be all that much of a restraint to a 9th degree in any of the martial arts.
Are you saying a handcuffed 9th degree black belt can take on two Nevada police officers with guns, tasers and batons? I think the ability to carry something like that out successfully, while far from being completely impossible, has very little to do with having a 9th degree black belt in anything. I'd be more inclined to believe a ballet dancer or a gymnast pulling it off.
  #38  
Old 01-05-2007, 01:56 AM
mangeorge is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 14,089
Quote:
Originally Posted by groman
Are you saying a handcuffed 9th degree black belt can take on two Nevada police officers with guns, tasers and batons? I think the ability to carry something like that out successfully, while far from being completely impossible, has very little to do with having a 9th degree black belt in anything. I'd be more inclined to believe a ballet dancer or a gymnast pulling it off.
You don't fool me, groman. I've seen the movies. And tv. TV don't lie.
You can't get netflix down there?
  #39  
Old 01-05-2007, 08:37 AM
BMalion is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 9,716
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleestak
In Nevada they have some sort of list of people with serious marital arts skills and or fighters. Either that or they really didn't like the look of one guy I was with.

I'll take number 2, Alex.
  #40  
Old 01-05-2007, 10:23 AM
Stranger On A Train is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Manor Farm
Posts: 18,964
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMalion
I'll take number 2, Alex.
Yeah, me too. Dollars to donuts, if you checked out this guy's criminal record he's got at least a couple of assaults if not more on the dock. I guarantee that the Division of Motor Vehicles and the Nevada Criminal Information System do not cross-reference with the Nevada Athletic Commission, the Thai Kickboxing Association of America, The International Shotokan Karate Association, the mailing list of Black Belt magazine, or the Salvation Army. The do, however, maintain a list of arrests, arraignments, and convictions.

Anybody--and I do mean anybody--can potentially kill someone with bare hands with only a modicum of training. All things being equal, it's really not that hard to terminate someone's life; a simple strike to the throat, the back of the neck, or the temple can do it. Martial arts students spend years not learning how to kill (or stun with magic chi pressure points, or whatever) but how to disarm, disable, and debilitate without actually having to kill an opponent.

And just 'cause it needs to be said (and isn't any more silly than any other mistatement made so far), they'll take away my hands when they pry them from my cold, dead...er...arms.

Stranger
  #41  
Old 01-05-2007, 11:36 AM
bordelond's Avatar
bordelond is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: La Rive Ouest
Posts: 10,006
A related legend (I assume?) is one about the old Japanese man in an Okinawan bar running into a bunch of U.S. Marine rowdies. I believe this UL is/was told often in the military.

The story is that the local authorities gave this old man -- a kung fu expert, natch -- a card that he was obliged to present in the case of an altercation. The card's writing is in Japanese, and explains how so-and-so has achieved such-and-such level of kung fu training.

Anyhoo ... supposedly the Marine toughs in a bar were giving the old man a hard time. The old man wants to fight back, but presents the card instead. The Marines laugh, and one of them knocks the card out of the old man's hand. The old man bends down, picks up the card, and presents it twice more, with the same result. After the third presentation, the old man handily cleans out the barroom all by his lonesome with his mad kung fu skillz.

It's always mentioned that local law required the old man to present the card three times to a potential opponent ... but that after that, he was free to kick arse with no fear of arrest.
  #42  
Old 01-05-2007, 11:48 AM
VunderBob is offline
Guest
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The VunderLair
Posts: 15,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by chowder
I once heard that experts in martial arts had to carry a card which in the event of any altercation outside of competition they were supposed to show to their opponent.

Is this also an UL?
Yes. 2nd Degree Black Belt TKD chiming in...
  #43  
Old 01-05-2007, 11:55 AM
VunderBob is offline
Guest
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The VunderLair
Posts: 15,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by groman
Are you saying a handcuffed 9th degree black belt can take on two Nevada police officers with guns, tasers and batons? I think the ability to carry something like that out successfully, while far from being completely impossible, has very little to do with having a 9th degree black belt in anything. I'd be more inclined to believe a ballet dancer or a gymnast pulling it off.
Handcuffing anyone trained in a leg-intensive art such as Tae Kwon Do or Thai kickboxing is a fool's errand. If they wanted to truly restrain him, leg irons would have been necessary, too...
  #44  
Old 01-05-2007, 01:00 PM
BMalion is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 9,716
Good thing the cop didn't drop a spoon.
  #45  
Old 01-05-2007, 01:55 PM
groman is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 3,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by VunderBob
Handcuffing anyone trained in a leg-intensive art such as Tae Kwon Do or Thai kickboxing is a fool's errand. If they wanted to truly restrain him, leg irons would have been necessary, too...
Well, I guess the same logic would work for an olympic runner as well, no?
  #46  
Old 01-05-2007, 02:08 PM
C K Dexter Haven is offline
Right Hand of the Master
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Chicago north suburb
Posts: 16,078
We actually tried to do a Staff Report on this a while back. The closest we came was that the origin was a joke, but we couldn't track the exact situation so gave up. Imagine some total nebbish, like a young Woody Allen, being accosted by some ruffian, taking up a karate stand and saying, "Stand back! My hands are registered as lethal weapons!" We were pretty confident that was the origin of the urban legend, but we couldn't nail it more than that.

It's still sitting in the pile of things to finish up someday, if someone would like to take up the search.
  #47  
Old 01-05-2007, 03:30 PM
MrSquishy is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Posts: 1,175
Quote:
Originally Posted by C K Dexter Haven
We actually tried to do a Staff Report on this a while back. The closest we came was that the origin was a joke, but we couldn't track the exact situation so gave up. Imagine some total nebbish, like a young Woody Allen, being accosted by some ruffian, taking up a karate stand and saying, "Stand back! My hands are registered as lethal weapons!" We were pretty confident that was the origin of the urban legend, but we couldn't nail it more than that.

It's still sitting in the pile of things to finish up someday, if someone would like to take up the search.
Well, I'm almost certain Don Knotts used this gag once or twice on Three's Company. He's pretty nebbish, isn't he?
  #48  
Old 01-05-2007, 03:44 PM
pravnik is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: TX
Posts: 13,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSquishy
Well, I'm almost certain Don Knotts used this gag once or twice on Three's Company. He's pretty nebbish, isn't he?
I'm pretty sure he used it even before that on "the Andy Griffith Show."
  #49  
Old 01-05-2007, 05:37 PM
mangeorge is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 14,089
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSquishy
Well, I'm almost certain Don Knotts used this gag once or twice on Three's Company. He's pretty nebbish, isn't he?
Wasn't there also something similar in a Monty Python movie?
  #50  
Old 01-06-2007, 11:58 PM
Khampelf is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: The Republic of Anoxia
Posts: 2,048
It makes for a neat Catch-22. If your hands are lethal weapons, how do you take them into a public building (presumably with a statute preventing the carrying of weapons therein) to register them?

"Thank for complying with Law A, we must now arrest you for breaking Law B."
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:10 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017