Based on the responses in the thread entitled [it seems there are people who would be interested in a discussion on Hinduism.
However, as I said in that thread, Hinduism is extremely difficult for one person to define. It’s even more varied than Christianity. My next-door neighbor could be worshiping a totally different god than me and in a different way and he would still be Hindu.
So I open this thread not as an “ask the Hindu” but as an “ask the panel of Hindus”, hopefully. I’d like any of the Dopers to answer any and all questions if they have input. I don’t want anyone to think of this as “my” thread; Hinduism is too complex for me to answer alone.
So - ask away! In follow-up posts I can go into my own experience with Hinduism, and perhaps why even though I term myself atheist I still consider myself atheist Hindu. And again - no one should hesitate to respond. All are welcome!
I have gotten the impression that the explicitly polytheistic (and, to Western eyes, somewhat primitive-seeming) Shiva-Kali-Ganesha-Vishnu-etc Hinduism is common in rural areas in India and among the less educated, whereas urban and educated Hindus tend towards a form of Hinduism that has much less emphasis on the plethora of gods and seems, to my eyes, to be pretty close to Buddhism. Is this, in your experience, reality?
I had a look at Wikipedia’s page on Atheism in Hinduism, and I have a question. It looks as though in general an atheist Hindu would not believe in a creator deity, but may believe in the devas. Have I understood that correctly? Is that your own personal view as an atheist Hindu?
A little background before I answer the questions -
I was raised in a fairly liberal temple. Many temples ‘recommend’ women not come when they have their period, or simply drone on in Sanskrit so no one understands. My temple - nationally known as the Arya Samaj (in America) - believed women could even be priestesses.
As a child, I would go to a large temple in MI with my folks. The first part of the service we’d all sit together. Then the kids and adults would separate. The adults would do Gita study, while us kiddies would be taken down into the basement (cue evil laughter…never mind) and be told stories of our religion… It was the way I received a lot of my early religious instruction, and I think it’s a mighty fine way. Kept my interest certainly.
As I grew into a teen I became way more involved. We joined a small temple in NY, and this temple was dedicated to making the rites comprehensible to all. We changed a lot of the wording to Old Hindi, and even I learned to do the havan. More on that in a second. This drove a lot of the more traditionalists - South Indians - to hold their own services. There was already division because we danced in front of the murtis (idols) and the S. Indians thought that was inappropriate, where we believed the idols loved it as much as we did.
The havan is a ceremony where you light a fire in a metal container, and pour in specific offerings to the gods. Agni, the god of fire, is purifying, so it purified the offerings to send to the gods. I learned how to do this. My mother became a priestess. I was left a smidge short because I didn’t want to learn Sanskrit in the heat of the (real) Indian summer, which was the only chance I had.
Revenant Threshold, I haven’t yet met anyone else who terms themself atheist Hindu. And I have been looking. So I can’t speak for others. I myself believe in no creator and no gods, but I find the moral philosophy of Hinduism a comfort to follow. It does seem to me that we all have our own duties and our place in this world, and that the path of Hinduism seems to be as good a path as any to follow.
Priceguy, that is very much the case. Hinduism often seems to me to be a religion of the intelligentsia. Many people in India - though by no means all - don’t stop to examine their religion. Plus it’s way more difficult to have time to examine religion when you work backbreakingly for 12 hours to put food on the table. Seeing as how we’re a country of farmers, you can see how there is a vast difference between the upper and lower classes.
Brahmins were always intended to translate the religious texts and bring us closer to God.
With regards to the generic / western sense of the eastern take on the divine (Tao, Buddha) underlying everything and manifesting everywhere, a pantheism, etc…
• Is this a somewhat accurate outsiders’ take on things? Would a Hindu recognize Hinduism in that westerner’s description?
• In what ways does this part of the perspectives differ between Hinduism and Buddhism (assuming you have sufficient familiarity with the latter to feel comfortable answering)?
• Reincarnation, et al: Would I be correct in assuming that there is a wide continuum of understanding/belief among Hindus, ranging from an emphasis on unity of identity underlying diversity of experience to emphasis on caste and justification for attributing people’s situation to whatever they did, in this life or previous lives, to deserve it? Do the former have a name for the latter, and is there tension / religious controversy over who gets to speak for what Hinduism is all about, etc?
Were you raised in a Shivanite or Vaishnavite traditition?
One of the problems in talking about Hinduism is that it’s really not one religion but an umbrella term for a huge tangle of all kinds of different traditions. Sometimes those traditions overlap, sometimes not. Vedic sacrifices have little or nothing to do with, say, Kundalini traditions and yet it all gets called “Hinduism.” That was a white European term applied as a blanket to the entire diversity of traditions practiced in the Indus region. In my experience, even a lot of native Indians don’t know them all or don’t know the details of all of them. How much did you learn about traditions other than your own? Did you learn any yogic techniques? Meditation? Anything about Vedantism?
Also, how much of a role does the caste system still play in religion?
Hinduism is indeed as much of a philosophy as a religion. I think this is what you’re asking.
I know very little about Buddishm, I’m afraid, and don’t really feel qualified to answer.
While there is a wide continum of varying beliefs, as I have said, I really haven’t had much problem with people telling me I can’t speak for Hinduism. Hinduism as far as it goes is supposed to be a more open-minded religion; our scriptures tell us all paths are a path to God. Including other religions. So we tend to be somewhat open-minded within the religion, too.
Dio
Vaishnavite , though I can’t recall anyone ever referring to it that way. Generally we were and are Krishna worshipers.
As for religions and traditions not my own I’d say I’ve learned a lot and yet have barely skimmed the surface. I have family who lives in Rajhastan and Punjab and even amongst the two states there are huge differences! As for meditation, I did begin to learn some of that in my late teens. Meditation is a large part of Sri Sai Baba worship, and my parents were semi-into that for a while as well. Yogic techniques? Other than doing yoga weekly for many years, I didn’t really use it for much else in my life. And little to nothing about Vedantism - I’ve been studying that on my own, as an adult.
About the caste system - I have had so little experience of it I can’t talk. I am mixed-caste myself. It’s almost neglible in the States. Maybe xash, who actually lives in India, can tell us about it. From what I gather is getting better amongst the upper class but is still very prevalent in the lower classes. There is very little middle class in India.
Easily. As polythestic as Hindu traditions can be, it is still believed that all gods are only different manifestations of Brahman, who is the ultimate, unknowable divine force in the universe. Brahman is not a personal “god” as such, but a transcendent force, or ground of being which permeates all things. It’s very similar to Tao.
That would depend on what kind of Hinduism (not to mention what kind of Buddhism) you’re talking about. Some Hindu traditions (like Vedantism, for instance) are very similar to Zen Buddhism. So much so that the Hindu experience of Samadhi is considered to be pretty much identical to the Buddhist experience of Nirvana. Some other similarities which Buddhism shares with Hinduism are beliefs in karma and reincarnation. Remember that Buddhism was originally an Indian religion and that the Buddha himself was essentially a Hindu. The relationship between Buddhism and Hinduism is somewhat analogous to that of Judaism and Christianity.
Hinduism tends to be very ecumenical and views all paths (even Christianity in some cases) to be equally valid routes to enlightenment. No one really speaks for Hinduism as a whole because it’s not really a single religion but a multiplicity of them.
Did your family have any holiday celebrations (I’ve seen some Hindu dopers mention Diwali)? Can you share what your traditions were like? How does the community feel about converts to Hinduism? Were there any non-Indian families in your temple? Were there any sort of daily prayers/rituals that you were expected to do?
I’m North Indian, as I’ve said, so I mainly celebrated North Indian holidays.
Lodi, which is our campfire festival in early January. (Why do we not have such a thing in America?)
Vaisakhi, which is a planting festival, and very specific to Punjabis and Sikhs. Other people celebrate it, but often call it by different names and celebrate it in a different way.
Holi - Festival of colors.
Rakhi-Bandhan - where you tie a thread around your brother’s wrist and he gives you a gift. Celebrating the brother-sister relationship.
Dussehra/Diwali.
To name a few.
Mainly we celebrate every single holiday by eating good food and a little prayer and then dancing. Yup, looking at those, we dance at every holiday. It’s just a Punjabi thing, or maybe Gujrati or Rajhastani. Those three states have always incorporated dancing into every fun event.
The community has always welcomed converts, or even people that are just hanging out. Even my parents, who highly disapproved of me dating outside, had no problem with others coming in. A handful of men have non-Indian wives, and they always are welcome. Individuals may feel differently, of course.
There were no fully non-Indian families in my temple, but plenty of mixed families.
Up until my mother went sort of batshit - more on this in a second - I didn’t have to do any kind of daily prayers. When I turned 14, something happened that is not relevant to this thread, and my mother started fearing for my soul. She began daily prayers and weekly havans (see OP) and cajoled me and encouraged me and yelled at me to start reading our Holy Books. So I was searching for religion pretty heavily. Strangely enough, they didn’t have any problem when I read the Q’uran or the Old Testament. (They didn’t need to, nothing I found in either of those books answered my questions). But they did have problems when I began eating meat and when I flat out refused to date any Indian guys.
The invention of the Hindu: “Hinduism is largely a fiction, formulated in the 18th and 19th centuries out of a multiplicity of sub-continental religions, and enthusiastically endorsed by Indian modernisers…”
Elements of Atheism in Hindu Thought: “One such concept is atheism, which is often viewed much differently across cultures. In western schools of thought, atheism is considered mutually exclusive to the religious and spiritual. Similarly, materialism is often found in schools that reject God. However, in Hindu thought we often find quite the opposite; atheism and spirituality are often intimately joined and related…”
My beliefs are more closely aligned to the Vedanta than any other orthodox or heterodox school. I follow almost no ritual or customs prevalent in folk practice, except when accompanying family. Finally, like Diogenes said, Hinduism in its distilled form is very similar to Buddhism.
How strictly do most American Hindus stick to the dietary rules? There are a lot of American Jews who don’t keep strictly kosher- some don’t keep kosher at all, some keep kosher at home but not in restaurants, and there are a lot of different levels of strictness in keeping kosher.
There are various conflicts between different denominations of Christians and Jews- do Hindus have the same sort of conflicts?
How common is it for Hindus to switch denominations at some point in their lives?
Is Rakhi-Bandhan just about relationships between brothers and sisters, or all sibling relationships? If my family (two daughters, no sons) were Hindu and north Indian like yours, would we still celebrate Rakhi-Bandhan and, if so, how?
Did you go to temple weekly? If so, on what day? Do different denominations or individual temples have weekly services on different days?
Are there specific traditional foods associated with different holidays?
What sorts of things does one sacrifice to the gods in havan? Can you do havan at home, or is it only done in temple?
How would your parents have felt about you dating or marrying a non-Indian convert to Hinduism? Would that have been more acceptable than marrying a non-Indian who was also non-Hindu?
The first thing to understand is that there is no universally accepted dogma or scripture in Hinduism. As a corollary, there is no universally accepted dietary rule. The Hindus with the strictest rules follow Jain-like diets – no flesh (land, sea, or air), no root vegetables. The next most common stage is no flesh, no garlic, no onions. To 90 percent of Hindus, the only rule is – no beef. However, among the middle and upper classes, it is common, especially for men, to ignore this rule, especially when eating outside the home. In the United States, there is a similar gamut of rule-following, with a tendency for less adherence to rules.
There aren’t really denominations in Hinduism. There are varying practices and all Hindus feel free to join in with the practices of other Hindus as well as non-Hindus. All religion is the same – this idea is taken seriously.
Again, there aren’t really denominations, as such. Hindus are willing to engage in the religious practices of those around them. Among those who are serious about spirituality, they might try several different styles of practice before settling on one they prefer (but, again, it would be unusual for this choice to be an exclusive one).
No, it is only celebrated between brother and sister. Overall, it is thought of as a purely positive expression – love between a brother an sister. However, there are some rather sexist underpinnings hidden underneath. Essentially, it is an expression of reverence and gratitude on behalf of the sister towards the brother and an expression of benevolence on behalf of the brother towards the sister. Traditionally, it’s not a relationship of equals. When it comes right down to it, the sister is giving thanks that she has a brother and the brother is promising to protect her. It wouldn’t make sense in a cultural sense to have two sisters do it.
It’s not a matter of denomination. And the temple, for Hindus, is entirely optional. The whole world is the temple. Religious Hindus engage in religious rites daily alone at home (usually first thing in the morning).
This varies by region/ethnic group.
All Hindu religious rites require a sacrifice of some sort, no matter where it is done – at home, in the temple, on the side of the road. Anything can be sacrificed – the most common sacrifices are ghee (clarified butter), flowers, and sweets. In Shaivite (Siva-worship) and bhakti (Goddess-worship) practice, the highest sacrifices are blood sacrifices (usually baby goats).
Generally speaking converts to Hinduism are viewed with suspicion and, often, amusement. Hindus believe that all religious beliefs and practices are equally valid; therefore, conversion is unnecessary. Furthermore, conversion is seen as a mark of disloyalty to one’s own family and background.
While this is true, it doesn’t really give an accurate view of how Hindus relate to each other. Hindus see all the varying practices as being legitimate expressions of Hinduism, not as separate religions.
What is key to understanding this is that Hinduism has no dogma. Therefore, there are no mandatory beliefs, including belief in god or any supernatural power. Atheism is completely consistent with Hinduism. Indeed, Buddhism (in its original form) can be seen as an atheistic branch of Hinduism.
Religious occasions vary by region (not by “denomination”). In Bengal, the most important occasions are:
(1) Durga puja - in the fall - the commemoration of the defeat of the demon Mahishashur by Durga (goddess of power), and the return of Durga (with her four children) from her husband’s house to her father’s house. Durga is depicted with 10 arms, each wielding a different weapon. In upper right hand, she holds a spear, whose point is plunged into the chest of Mahishashur, which may be depicted as a buffalo or as part-man, part-buffalo. Her mount, the lion, tears into Mahishashur’s flesh. Surrounding her are her children, with their chosen animal companions – the elephant-headed Ganesh (god of luck) with rat, Karttik (god of war) with peacock, Lakhi (goddess of fortune) with lotus flower, and Sarasvati (goddess of arts and learning) with swan. Durga is worshipped for several days and then the figures are immersed in the nearest river.
(2) Sarasvati puja - in the winter - the worship of the goddess of arts and learning.
(3) Kali puja - soon after Durga puja - the worship of Durga in the form of the goddess of destruction
It plays little if no role in religion, except in indicating who may serve as a priest. The caste system, however, does still have some social/cultural significance, primarily in arranging marriages. Most people still marry within their caste, even if they do not accept any of the other baggage that comes with caste.
AHunter, I’m not quite sure what you’re asking. Could you rephrase your questions?
It is not, in my experience. Among Hindus, practice and belief are two separate things. Most Hindus are perfectly willing to participate in any religious practice (of course, there are exceptions – Vaishnavites aren’t going to hang around for blood sacrifice). Each individual Hindu is free to formulate his own beliefs. As in any other part of the world, the less educated are more likely to take things literally. However, when it comes to practice, you will see polytheistic practice in all classes.
But there are people who worship different gods. Do many people switch from worshipping, say, Krishna to, say, Shiva?
When a Hindu is choosing a temple to go to, is the most important thing their ethnic background, which gods they worship (there are different temples for worshipping different gods, right?), or something else?
It doesn’t require a “switch.” A person, over the course of his or her life, might choose to concentrate more on one or another – most home shrines house images of several gods, including sometimes historical or living people or non-Hindu gods – but it’s all just Hinduism. So long as you are practising mainstream Hinduism, no one sees you as “switching” from anything to anything. It’s not regarded as a culturally relevant event.
However, if you join one of the personality cults, such as ISKCON (Hare Krishnas), or Sai Baba, you are engaging in a more specialized practice, which might not be seen as just your everyday Hinduism. Still, people feel free to join and leave these cults at will without ever changing the “Hindu” label.
Yes. You are more likely to go to a temple that is run by and for people of your ethnic group.
Which god you choose to worship on a given day is more related to the immediate purpose of your worship than your general belief system. If you want to pray for wealth, go to Lakshmi; for auspicious beginnings, go to Ganesh; for a good marital relationship, go to Shiva, etc.
Yes and no. Most temples, while “featuring” a specific god, include multiple gods within.
One of the things that I did not come clear with is Hinduism is as much of a culture as it is a religion. It’s rather like Judaism in that. One doesn’t lose the link, and even if you change your specific beliefs you’re still Hindu.
As for what gods to worship, **acsenray **says it right. My old temple in MI had huge idols of Ram and Sita. Then my temple in NY had idols of Radha-Krishn, and the S. Indian temples have names for the gods I don’t even recognize. And they have different names even for the gods I do recognize. It’s all the same and I would equally go to any one.
Which one I would join and make myself a part of depends way more on the people that go there and the types of worship. I don’t much like the temple in Albany because when I go there for services I see the same old crappy behavior - the priest is praying, the people are talking, no one is listening. It doesn’t seem that anyone dances, and going there just for prayer is awfully boring to me. And they don’t sing very much, and singing in religion is very familiar and comforting to me.
I think I might have grasped some subtleties in this question that are relevant. Hindus don’t form congregations in the same way that Christians do. You don’t become a “member” of a temple and its community in the same way that Christians do. Perhaps if you are an NRI, for social reasons, you might frequent a temple that people you know go to – but generally speaking, Hindus in India go to temples only on a casual basis. You don’t necessarily form relationships with the others who go to that temple and you definitely don’t rely on that temple’s priests for spiritual or personal guidance. In fact, for important occasions, you’re going to get the aid of your family priest, who is probably not connected to a temple at all.
If you want spiritual guidance, you might seek out a guru, but priests and gurus are usually not the same thing. Priests are there only to perform functions related to religious rites – to act as intermediaries between you and god. They don’t advise you on spiritual or personal matters.
Oh, and another thing. Whether you’re going to a priest or a guru, it is customary to pay them for their services.
Is there any kind of ceremony that someone wishing to convert to Hinduism has to do, like there is in Judaism? In Judaism, the conversion process generally consists of reading a lot of books about Jewish religion and culture, trying out Jewish worship and practice, then being circumcised (for men) and immersing in a mikveh, or ritual bath. Is there anything like this in Hinduism?
In Catholic churches, non-Catholics are allowed to attend, but aren’t supposed to take communion. There are some similar restrictions on non-Jews in most synagogues (though it’s on a synagogue-by-synagogue basis). Are there any rituals like that in a Hindu temple that non-Hindus wouldn’t be allowed to participate in?
What does a typical Hindu prayer service consist of, and how long does it take?
Anaamika, what holy books did your mom want you to read?
How does one go about finding a family priest? Or a guru, for that matter, if they’re not affiliated with the temple you go to? (I imagine there’s a bit more to it than looking in the Yellow Pages…) A big reason to affiliate with a church or synagogue is to have access to a priest, minister, or rabbi if you find yourself in need of one.
Do American Hindu kids take classes outside of school to learn the language spoken in their local temple, like American Jewish kids who don’t go to a Jewish day school go to Hebrew school? Or do they learn the temple language at home?
From my experience (in grad school and at work), I would day that about 95% of the Indians I meet are vegetarians.
I assume this means that the upper classes are more vegetarian than the lower classes, and it is the upper classes who end up studying and working in the US.
Is this correct?
As a liberal follower of Christ, but a great admirer of Ghandi, I have developed reently a great desire to know more about Hindu practices and beliefs. Thank you for starting this thread. It has been very interesting and a great read!
In a way I cannot put my finger on, let alone put adequately into words, I have a sense that the great religions of the world are man desparately trying to access the same Universal Truth.
One of my favorite books on Ghandi begins with a fantastic description of the parallels between Hindu beliefs and Christian mythology. I am particularly interested in the Christian social justice movement. Is there any Hindu tradition of feeding the poor and working for justice? I ask this as someone almost completely ignorant of Hindu practice.