A Case for the Steam Powered Car

Unless you’re the current president, you’ve probably heard of the latest craze in environmental circles, namely “carbon neutral” and “carbon off-sets.” The idea being that by taking certain measures, you’ll be able to reduce the amount of global warming you’re responsible for. In about a decade, or less, I’m willing to bet, “carbon neutral” will be replaced by “carbon negative.” Why?

Because we’ve already crossed the first “carbon threshold” and even if all carbon emissions were stopped today, it’d be years before global warming begins to slow down. Given that it’s physically impossible for us to switch to a carbon-free lifestyle anytime soon, our only hope is to transition to a carbon negative system as quickly as possible. It is my belief that steam powered cars are the only practical way to do it any time soon.

Many environmentalists will argue that we should just get rid of cars altogether and force everyone to use mass transit. That’s both absurd and impossible. First of all, certain businesses require the use of automobiles. There’s no way a service tech tote all the gear he/she might need on a mass transit system. Even if they could, the delays caused by having to wait for the bus, subway, etc., would be intolerable for their customers. Salespoeple would have a difficult time making sales calls if they had to carry their wares on mass transit. They’d also have a hard time making the same amount of calls per day if they were restricted to it. Emergency workers couldn’t respond to a disaster if they had to wait for mass transit to get them to work in an emergency.

Consultants adn realitors would probably have a hard time as well. Plus, in order for mass transit to be cost efficient it needs a minimum number of riders per mile. Given that in some places the population’s too sparse, they’d have to relocate to some place more densely populated. Not practical for farmers.

Still, nutters will argue, if we only allowed those people to have cars, we’d all be better off, and to an extent, they’re right. Sure we could adapt to the minor inconviences of mass transit, like having to catch the bus, carrying packages on the subway, taking a cab on a date (we’re still going to allow cabs, right?), etc., etc. etc.

All of this, again, won’t cut our carbon emissions to a negative, but will help those responsible individuals who buy carbon off-sets, and think of all the added freedom we’ll have: No car payments, no insurance, no inspections to worry about or other expenses. Kind of balances things out, I’d say. Until there’s a natural disaster, that is. (Or the exceedingly unlikely massive terrorist attack.)

While we all hope that the next Administration fixes the problems at FEMA, even a well-run FEMA is going to require time to respond to a natural disaster. In the meantime, you’re going to have to fend for yourself. If you need to get to a hospital or some place where there’s power, water, or some other basic necessity and the only mean’s of getting around that you have is mass transit, you could very well be SOL.

Mind you, I’m not saying everyone should own a car, only that the banning of cars is absurdly stupid. Most of us do not live in areas where we have ample warning to clear out before disaster strikes. You never hear the weather man saying, “A tornado is going to strike here next week, so everyone needs to start evacuating now.” Earthquakes, floods, tornadoes and the like, often strike with little to no warning. Having access to a car, at least during the immediate aftermath can mean the difference between life and death.

Okay, so we’ve hopefully agreed, now, that cars can stay. So we need to make them more environmentally friendly. Let’s look at the available technology we have to do this with. No handwaving and making Mr. Fusion[sup]TM[/sup] units. Fuel cells, despite all their promises, are like cheap fusion power: It’ll happen any day now, give or take fifty or so years. Electric cars are somewhat practical, but even the fastest charging ones take several hours, battery packs are only good for a few years and are made of environmentally hazardous materials. Hybrids, plug-ins or otherwise, use some of the same hazardous materials as electrics, and unless they run on hydrogen, still spew out carbon. Flex fuel vehicles don’t have the dangerous battery packs, but still emit carbon (though at lower levels when they’re running on certain fuels).

What we need is something which combines the best features of these technologies, with few, if any of the downsides. That is where steam cars come into play. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know, long warm up times, water consumption, poor fuel economy, boiler explosions, and so on. Trust me, we’ve discussed these to death and they were all solved before steam cars ceased production. You can search the board for the threads if you doubt me, but even if they hadn’t been, it’s been 70 years since there were last in production, and as well all know, 70 years ago, telephones were so big and heavy that you could kill a puma with one. Now, they’re small enough, and light enough that you can shove one up your ass (and certain models will spit out a fax if you do that ;)). So figuring out how to fix those problems wouldn’t be difficult. Even if they were, the steam car as I’m about to describe it, has such benefits that they outweigh any headaches that would be associated with their development.

I know what you’re thinking: Why does it need to be a steamer? Why not just a modified IC engine? Wouldn’t that be better? You could modify an IC engine, it’s true and you’d be able to get all the convience we’ve come to expect from IC engines, with none of the downsides of a steamer, but a steamer would be better able to take advantage of the properties of the fuel at a lower cost, greater flexibility, and with benefits to folks living in cold climates.

Let’s take a quick look at how IC engines work, no matter what fuel they might be using. Fuel and air are mixed in a cylinder, a spark is added and the whole thing explodes. The force of the explosion is what moves the piston, the heat generated by it is primarily an annoyance to be discarded. People have designed cars (and even locomotives) to run on compressed air. This solves both the heat and emissions problems, but I think that the disadvantages should be obvious. (I’ll just mention one: The air tanks have to be pressurized to 3,000 psi.)

A steam car is basically the reverse of an IC car. The more heat, the better, and explosions are a Bad Thing[sup]TM[/sup]. Of course, by now you’re probably screaming, “What exactly is it that makes a steamer so much better, asshole?” I’ll tell you: With the right fuel, zero carbon emissions (and that’s mister Asshole, to you). That now puts it on equal footing with fuel cells and electrics. I am now, with no hand waving, or miracles, going to put it ahead of both of those choices. In fact, I’m going to even give fuel cells an advantage over ones presently in existence. Let’s say that someone finally manages to produce a cheap fuel cell, so that their cost is comparable to that of a conventional IC engine. A steamer still beats 'em.

How? Well, first of all, not just any old steamer will do, but it wouldn’t be difficult to modify the steamers presently in existence to do this. Here’s the downside, as it were, to fuel cells: Nothing else comes of the energy used to produce the hydrogen, other than oxygen. That’s it. Oxygen, of course, is a good thing to be pumping in the atmosphere, and it has uses both in the medical and industrial fields.

Fuel cells also have a narrow band of fuels on which they can run. This will cause problems for the early adopters. If there’s no hydrogen stations, you can’t fill up.

A steamer, capable of using scrap aluminum to split water into hydrogen and oxygen has none of those worries. To get the aluminum to split water, you have to get it burning. In the case of aluminum powder, this isn’t all that difficult. A spark will do it. Solid aluminum can’t be lit using a spark, but a dip in nitric acid will remove the oxide coating so that aluminum spontainiously combusts upon contact with water.

The heat generated by the burning aluminum as well as that created by the burning hydrogen can be used to heat the boiler. In an IC car operating off a similar principle, the heat would only be useful in that it caused the hydrogen to explode. Once you get the delicate balancing act required to keep the mixture just right. You’d also have to have a way to remove the aluminum oxide from the cylinders so that it won’t foul them up. Finally, if you run out of aluminum in the properly prepared form, you’d be stuck, unless additional levels of complexity were added to the engine in order to make it a flex fuel vehicle (assuming this is even possible).

Steamers can run on anything flammable, so all you’d need is a burner and a fuel tank and you’d be all set. Cleaning out the aluminum oxide would be easy, too. All you’d need is a small access hatch in the boiler and cleaning it our would be as simple cleaning out a charcoal grill.

Steam cars have two winter time advantages which beat every other kind of car, hands down. The first is heat. The hotter the steam, the more power a steamer generates. Tapping into that to provide heat for the passenger cabin is easy and it wouldn’t be difficult to keep the interior balmy.

The second advantage, is that the exhaust steam from the engine is still plenty warm and it would not be difficult at all to install a mechanism to divert some of that steam with the push of a button to the wheel wells. A driver who found himself stuck on a patch of ice, instead of of trying to push the car, could at the push of a button, which would direct hot steam in front of the driving wheels, thereby melting the ice underneath them.

By now, you’re probably saying, “If this is such a good idea, why isn’t anyone building them?” The answer’s pretty simple: You can’t build something if you’ve never heard of it. Call up any automotive engineer and ask them if they’ve heard of it, they’ll tell you “nope.”

So now you’re probably wondering why I’m telling you all of this and not building cars and getting rich. Well, if I had the money, I would be doing it. I’ve certainly got the skills necessary to do it, I just lack the resources to do it quickly. Truthfully, as much as I’d like to be worth a kajillion dollars, I’d be more than happy to just have enough to convert my Chyrsler and fully restore her (with a few pimin’ customizations to be sure ;).

Ideally, once I got the car done, I’d take her on a 49 state tour (sorry HI) to show the car off and help raise awareness that we don’t have to wait for battery technology to improve or for someone to develop a Mr. Fusion[sup]TM[/sup] unit to be able to drive a non-polluting vehicle.

My rough estimate of the cost to simply get the car up and running (if I do all the work) is $7K. That’s just to get the car up and running, fixing things like rust, bad tires and the like will cost more. My best estimate for a total restoration (including pimp out) and the cross country tour is $25K, which is out of my price range at the moment.

I keep running different ideas through my head at how I might scrape up the cash. Most of the stuff I own are books which won’t fetch much if I sell them. Selling the engine and transmission out of the car would get me a grand at most (more likely I’d only get about $500). There’s not much point in my trying to pitch the idea to the car companies as all of them have a “not invented here” attitude, or as the guy who invented the intermittant wipers found out, they’ll simply steal your idea. (He sued, had to go all the way to the Supreme Court and his award was less than his legal bills.)

The best idea I’ve been able to come up with is starting a non-profit and throwing up a webpage (as soon as I can learn to code), asking for donations, but I can’t really imagine that working. After all, who;'s going to believe me? Sure, I can provide references from reliable sources that it’ll work, but I’m no engineer. I’m just a machinist with a crazy dream. If anybody’s got any better ideas I’m open to them.

  1. I think I read that all the way through, but what’s the “negative” carbon bit?
  2. How much aluminum is there in the world to burn, how much do you need to use to keep the vehicle moving, how expensive to buy, etc.?

“Carbon negative” means that your lifestyle removes more carbon from the environment than it produces.

IIRC, something like 8% of the earth’s crust is aluminum, so it’s not like there’d be a shortage of it. Plus aluminum oxide can be converted back into aluminum fairly easily. So one could, in theory, dump the aluminum oxide out of their boiler into a “reformer” and get most of it back (there would be some losses, of course). As for the operating costs, I’m not totally certain of that. I’ve got to do some number crunching as soon as I dig up one of my reference books, but aluminum’s relatively inexpensive, and if you’re using scrap aluminum (say old soft drink cans) and tap water, it’s practically free. In a case like that, it wouldn’t really matter what kind of mileage you got, because it’d cost almost nothing to drive the car.

Isn’t conversion of aluminium oxide into aluminium an energy intensive process? I thought that was why aluminium smelters tend to be near cheap sources of electricity. Aren’t you just using aluminium as a way of storing energy that you got by burning something else?

You can’t burn bauxite.

/hands Printchester a cigar.

Yes, I just didn’t get the part where running on steam removes carbon. Not sure if my eyes are skimming on their own (very probable), but I didn’t spot it.

But that’s a minor point. The major point is that all the energy used to run this car derives from refining aluminium. You can’t get more energy by burning aluminium in water than you used in smelting aluminium, and you can’t get more energy by burning the hydrogen than you released by burning the aluminium. Then you have to mine the aluminium ore (or collect the AlO residue), transport it to the smelter, distribute the aluminium… and then you can discuss the inherent energy inefficiency at each stage of the process.

Really you’re better off with a wood-powered steamer. At least then the trees that you plant for the fuel wood are locking the carbon up again. Or if wood’s too inconvenient to use as fuel, make wood alcohol out of it.

A really big-ass solar-powered smelter would help, of course. But what’s this wonder car going to do to the price of aluminium once everyone and his brother is toting the stuff around in his fuel tank?

Even so (and as you have already said) Solar>Aluminium>Hydrogen>motive power is never going to be as energy efficient as Solar>Hydrogen>motive power.

I disagree with your arguments that cars are basically essential.

You mention repair technicians, salespeople and emergency crews.
These are not the majority of the car using population.

I agree with you on emergency crews, but salespeople should change to video presentation.

It’s true that countryside transport is far worse than cities. But cities are gradually chocking on traffic jams (e.g. the London congestion charge).
Decent public transport in cities is far better for the environment than individual car ownership.

As for evacuating cities by car, how often is this necessary?
And again wouldn’t decent public transport be better anyway?

Yes, but potentially more user-friendly - it’s easy to transport and store aluminium granules and make the hydrogen at point of use. That’s about the only thing going for this plan, though. I would also be curious to know how much hydrogen you can liberate with, say, 100lb of aluminium, and what its fuel potential is. Presumably the [del]mad scientist[/del] OP has done the math?

This doesn’t necessarily mean the technology is bad, just that it won’t be carbon neutral or a free energy source like the OP expects.

One would have to consider the efficiency of converting bauxite to elemental aluminum, and the efficiency of the aluminum->hydrogen->power chain in order to decide whether or not it’s better than current battery/fuel technology. Aluminum is easy to transport, non-polluting, non hazardous and stores a great deal of energy.

Though of course building one would be worth it regardless. :smiley:

Ah yes. Hydrogen is much too difficult to store, transport and use in safety, so let’s dick around with thermite instead.

I am entertaining serious misgivings about this technological development. :smiley:

One technological hurdle that any steam-powered car will have to solve is the inefficiencies involved in warming up and cooling down; a given amount of fuel is used just to get the boiler up to running temperature; when you arrive at your destination, you have a fully heated boiler which will just go to waste - on short trips, this might be a considerable overhead.

Also, how long is the delay between starting the engine from cold and driving away?

Thermite is actually very stable, it requires an extremely high temperature to begin the reaction, but once that reaction starts… watch out!

Yes, converting aluminium oxide into aluminum is an energy intensive process, but so is turning water into hydrogen and oxygen. One of the arguments for electric cars is that you’re centralizing the pollution sources (i.e. the electric power plants), where the amount of emissions can be better controlled. By burning aluminum, you’re doing the same thing, without the problems of trying to figure out how to store hydrogen.

Malacandra, I doubt that it would have much effect on the long term price of aluminium, since the aluminum oxide could be reclaimed. Of course, there would be some spiking due to speculation, but it wouldn’t necessarily be the kind of rapid rise in prices like we’ve seen with oil. I haven’t completely pinned down the math as of yet, but you wouldn’t need an insane amount of aluminum and water to get the same kind of energy as you get from conventional fuels.

glee, again I’m not against public transportation systems. No matter what happens, we’d be better off with more people using mass-trans. My point is that the whackjobs trying to ban cars completely don’t have a clue. Public transport for mass evacuation of cities will work, provided, of course, you have ample warning and nothing impacts the mass transit systems. During the big black out in the North Eastern US, no one could use the subways in NYC. That means that people trying to get out of the city would have to use buses, taxis, or some form of personal transportation. There’s certainly not enough buses to get people out of NYC and if you had warning, you could route buses from outside the city into the area to get people out. If you had enough warning. Given that even in the cases of severe storms we don’t know the impact they’ll have, it’ll be hard to call for an evacuation. If you send people fleeing from the city every time there’s a bad storm coming, people will stop listening to you, and be trapped when there’s a bad one.

sage rat, it wouldn’t be carbon neutral, but a person who bought the same level of carbon off-sets when they were driving a conventionally fueled car would be carbon negative if they were burning scrap aluminum in the car.

Mangetout, warm up time can be less than a minute, if it’s properly designed. Jay Leno has a Doble steamer build during the 1930s that takes less than 30 seconds to heat up to operating temps. And the cool down period is an unknown, but doesn’t actually have to be wasted energy. One of the problems with modern cars is that on very short trips the electronics drain the battery so much (when the car’s off) that short trips don’t fully recharge the battery. If the cool down period is used to run the alternator, then the battery can be fully charged up, which might not happen otherwise.

The biggest drawback to steam power for automobiles is what killed the Stanley Steamer years ago:
You have to have time to generate the steam before you can drive it. People don’t want to have to go out and start a car 20 - 30 minutes before they go somewhere EVERY TIME they want to go somewhere. This isn’t too bad in the winter, since many people do that, but in the summer? No, sir. And it’s a pain to leave a car at the shopping center, buy your groceries, shop for an hour or two, or go to a movie, and then not be able to just crank up the car and go. Additionally, the safety powers-that-be aren’t going to allow a boiler to just be kept heating out in the parking lot…

That’s why you use a Doble boiler and not a Stanley.

Depends what you mean by “insane”. I’m figuring on about a hundred pounds of Al to replace a tank of gas. How many cars in the US? Fifty million? What to factor in for Al locked into oxide going for reprocessing, being delivered to filling stations, presently stockpiled there? Say another order of magnitude? That’s about 25 million tons, which equates nicely to one year’s production for the entire world. Gotta make a dent in the commodities market…!

Hey Tuckerfan. I’m glad to see that you’re still working on this. If you remember, we had some off-line conversations about this years ago. I’m still looking forward to that ride you promised me.