We moved to our current neighborhood over the summer. One of our neighbors found out we were Jewish, and has taken a bit of an interest in us. She is a Messianic Jew (not Jews For Jesus proper, but along those lines) which we as Jews do not recognize as a legitimate branch of Judaism. Our old rabbi had a great description of the sect - he said “it’s like being a member of “Vegetarians For Meat””.
For the Christmas/Hanukkah season, she gave us a gift bag that included a book of Messianic quotes (I can look up the exact book title later). We basically ignored the book. She just came to our door this week to invite us to a Passover Seder at her congregation.
How can we tell her “Look, we’re not interested” without being rude? We will probably have her as a neighbor for along time, and I’d hate to have this cause friction. On the other hand, it’s annoying.
It sounds like she is an Evangelical Messianic Jew. I doubt there is any better method of turning her down than that which you would use for an Evangelical Christian.
When it comes to competing religious beliefs, etiquette is about as relevant as evidence.
You started step one of the escalation already, by not thanking her for the book. Step 2 would be to reject the invitation with a “thanks, but we’re not the slightest bit interested.” Step 3 would be politely explaining to her why you think she isn’t really Jewish.
Step 4 would be yelling, but I trust it won’t get that far.
Exactly how relevant is it that she self-identifies as a messianic jew? You may not recognize that as judaism, but if you step on her beliefs, that very well may cause friction. How would you react if she was Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Wiccan, etc. other than “No thanks, we’re not interested.” A respectable evangelical knows that persistence tends to turn off rather than help and should simply make the offer and let it be known that it’s an open invitation and leave it be. Or, you can even invite her to attend a particular service with you. If she persists, just be a little more firm and tell her you’re happy with your congregation and do not desire to change.
This may be a bit far-fetched, but why not thank her politely for her interest and tell her that you have your own religious views/ways of practicing/synagogue/etc and you are flattered by her invitation but already have plans? I mean, perhaps she is just reaching out and thought perhaps this was a common ground? Maybe just saying “no thanks” is the best approach?
Just so you know, I have no religious beliefs. I don’t dis anyone else’ beliefs, I just don’t have any myself. I get a lot of people who “worry for <my> soul” and invite me to church. When I say “thanks, but no thanks” even the most evangelical types tend to understand that I am not being rude I just don’t share their need for religion. I have rarely had any of these situations escalate into anything, but on the occasions in which it has, I have yet to be shot or involved in war over it
Whoa. Steps 1 and 2, sure, but Step 3? No way. ISTM that “thanks but we’re really not interested” is polite, honest, and probably necessary since she’s being politely pushy. But there’s no need to go from explaining that you are of a different faith to asserting that someone else’s faith is invalid. Sure, you might believe that (I think “Vegetarians for Meat” is a very apt analogy), but it’s hardly in the realm of “being polite to the neighbors” to say so.
That said, nor do you have to put up with anything that is inconsistent with your faith in order to keep the peace. I am not sure what a book of “Messainic quotes” would be, but if in fact your neighbor gave you, a family of people she knows to be Jewish, a book of Jesus quotes, I would not have thought you were out of line to refuse to accept it. (“I’m sorry, this isn’t our faith. We’re not at all interested in this book, so perhaps you could give it to someone else who might find it more useful.”)
IOW, if and when she plays the “we’re all just Jews together!” card, you would not be impolite to push back a little with, no, that’s not the way you see it – especially if she’s not even ethnically Jewish. But so long as she is limiting herself to invitations, I don’t see any profit in informing her that you’re a “real” Jew and she’s not. I think virtually everyone who is not themself a J4J or “Messianic Jew” recognizes that, but why beat her over the head with it?
“I appreciate the invitation. It sounds as though your church teaches some things that we do not believe, so I don’t think it would work for us to attend a service with you. Perhaps we could get together for dinner next week?”
In terms of manners, a simple “No thank you” delivered with a smile is all that is necessary. No further explanation is needed. You don’t have to justify anything to anybody.
It doesn’t sound like she’s bothered by the idea of friction between herself and you as long-term neighbors.
Tell her, “I’d like for us to get along as neighbors, but we’re not interested in hearing your religious ideas. If you can get that message, we can have a long and healthy relationship as neighbors.”
And if she persists after that, “Sorry you didn’t accept my terms. F*** you, and don’t let my door hit your ass to hard.”
So-called “Messianic Judaism” is just garden variety evangelical Christianity disguised in pseudo-Jewish trappings and sprinklings of Hebrew words. Treat them the same as you would treat some pesky Southern Baptists. Politely decline the first time with the with the possible explication that you wish to remain Jewish and that you are not open to any discussion about it. If they try to argue with you about what being Jewish means, then (unless you really want to get into it) it might be best to end the conversation with a curt “Not interested. Goodbye.” Don’t worry about sounding rude. It is they who would have already crossed the boundaries of polite conversation. If they’re not interested in being friends with you as you are, or just see you as a project of some sort, then they probably won’t make very good friends anyway. Give them a chance to let it go, though. They might be willing to do that. If they can’t let it go, then they will become more pests than friends.
Ask yourself, “If this neighbor were a pushy Jehovah’s Witness, would I feel obligated to explain to her how her religion was wrong, in addition to declining her invitation to dinner?”
I thought not. You’d just politely decline her invitation to dinner. So, do that here.
But if you come to my church, our saviors are on sale! Call in the next 30 minutes and you get this very respectable and shiny pocket watch absolutely FREE*!
*Shipping & Handling fees apply.
My escalations are not meant to happen at once, but only if the neighbor repeatedly returns after step 2. This being GQ, I don’t want to get into my opinions of these people, but I think it is alright to let her know one’s view of her supposed Judaism.
If one gets to step 3, the Messianic neighbor is certainly saying that the OPs faith is invalid, and thus the reverse is true. In any case, the issue usually isn’t the validity of the faith. If the neighbor wanted to convert, fine, but the main problem is conversion but saying that she really hadn’t changed religions.
I’m ethnically and culturally Jewish, but now an atheist. I’d be just as wrong if I claimed that I reperesented true religious Judaism. It’s not theology, it’s honesty.
I tried that when the Baptists came to my door, and I said it politely with a smile. They immediately went into how I should really be saved.
I went into a “you damn Christians have slaughtered my people” rant and scared the crap out of them. They’ve never been back.
When the JWs came, I responded with “no thanks, this is a devout atheist household,” quite politely, which by itself was enough to make them run. No other religious person has ever been back.
ISTM that the obvious J4J rejoinder to “No thanks, we’re Jewish,” would be “Well, so are we!” which would really piss me off were I Jewish and I then would probably be unable to resist the rejoinder “No, actually, you’re not” etc. But I do agree with this: “If they’re not interested in being friends with you as you are, or just see you as a project of some sort, then they probably won’t make very good friends anyway.”
Your faith is NOTB. If they want to be neighbors, great, and if they can do it without a hot side of Jesus, great. If not, it’s definitely no loss to you. So I’d still just go with, “Oh, no thank you, we’re not interested,” repeated as often as necessary. If they are obviously intentionally refusing to take the hint, well, there’s probably a perfectly nice family down the street who you can make friends with.
And the more I think about giving a book of “Messianic quotes” to a Jewish family for Hannukah, the more offensive I find it. I’m not sure you haven’t already given this woman more chances than I would have.
I don’t see anything wrong with “Look, we are not interested.” If she persists you might add something like, “We are satisfied with the Judaism we currently practice and we get our religious input from our Rabbi. Please don’t bring up the subject again”
I have the same type of problem on occasion at parties. I am a non-drinking alcoholic. Now and then some zealot who thinks that a drink or two is necessary in order to have fun will not take a simple “no” for an answer. After having turned down a couple of offers of a drink I am forced to be blunt. “I am an alcoholic and I don’t drink. Please stop perstering me to have one.” Then I usually get up and leave the table for another part of the room.
