Potential "Cho"? I think they've gone too far

Great Debates
1

This happened in my sleepy little town:

http://www.nwherald.com/articles/2007/04/24/news/local/doc462e92445e91a213996542.txt

The student turned in a creative writing assignment that had lots of violent imagery, evidently. They haven’t released the essay to the public.

Ok, I understand that people are a little nervous after the VA Tech shootings, but this is a straight “A” student. He wasn’t just reprimanded; he was arrested, fercrissakes. I’d like more information as to the kid’s demeanor. I find it hard to believe a kid who is pulling straight "A"s is skulking around in the shadows acting all disturbed and unbalanced.

So, as to the debate; do you think it was prudent to have this kid arrested for writing a violent essay (albeit an obnoxious, prankish one)? Do we have to put everyone under the microscope because of one horrendous incident committed by a really disturbed guy? How would you have handled it if he was your student?

2

Just as understandable and just as effective as the running around in circles that beheaded chickens do.

Think about all the suspicions innocent people had to undergo after 9/11 ! I remember a plane turning around mid ocean and flying back to france because a stewardess had noticed a japanese businessman murmuring the words “bomb” to himself.
It turned out later he was trying to learn some English words by studying a newspaper. :rolleyes:

3

It’s hard to judge this without knowing exactly what he wrote. It sounds like appalling paranoid censorship and over-reaction, but if he was making explicit threats to staff or students in his writing that would be quite a different matter.

4

Well, when the lawsuit is settled, this kid has his first year of college paid for!

5

[QUOTE=Staggerlee]
It’s hard to judge this without knowing exactly what he wrote. It sounds like appalling paranoid censorship and over-reaction, but if he was making explicit threats to staff or students in his writing that would be quite a different matter.
[/QUOTE]

No, the article specifically said no threats were made.

6

[QUOTE=Staggerlee]
It’s hard to judge this without knowing exactly what he wrote. It sounds like appalling paranoid censorship and over-reaction, but if he was making explicit threats to staff or students in his writing that would be quite a different matter.
[/QUOTE]

From the linked article:

So, she grades the papers on Monday, but the police do not get brought in to arrest the kid until Tuesday. There is no (apparent) intervention by any member of the psych people associated with the district, just a “book 'em, Danno,” a court date, and further threats by the school:

One statement in the story is clearly false:

When “cautious” turns into “brain dead,” it is possibly to be “overly cautious.”

7

I’m sure the fact that the kid’s last name is “Lee” wasn’t lost on any of you. :rolleyes:

8

How many of us remember the fractured carole that goes: “Deck the Halls with Gasoline?”

Unless you can prove to me that the work in question dealt with direct, personal threats - this is going too far. Certainly the first step should have been a psych evaluation, not arrest, dammit. And that’s if there’s any reason to actually do anything.

9

[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
No, the article specifically said no threats were made.
[/QUOTE]
Sorry, my mistake. Then it is appalling paranoid censorship and over-reaction.

10

[QUOTE=OtakuLoki]
How many of us remember the fractured carole that goes: “Deck the Halls with Gasoline?”

Unless you can prove to me that the work in question dealt with direct, personal threats - this is going too far. Certainly the first step should have been a psych evaluation, not arrest, dammit. And that’s if there’s any reason to actually do anything.
[/QUOTE]

Well, I don’t know the kid, but an “A” student, to me anyway, is probably socializing properly. He’s concentrating on a multitude of subjects in order to maintain those grades. He’s not the kid who’s obsessing or severely depressed. He’s probably a well-rounded kid.

I’m guessing he was experimenting when he wrote that piece. He probably heard all the paranoia around him and decided to push the envelope. Were I the teacher, I probably would have rolled my eyes and maybe had a talk with him. From what I could gather from the article, he didn’t read it out loud in class. She was grading papers after school. It appears she was the one with the overactive imagination. I tend to lean toward your last statement (bolding mine).

11

Could someone explain to me how he could possibly be facing charges over writing an essay with violent references? Writing creatively in an unpopular way is a crime now? Surely this will be tossed out of court post-haste?

12

The VT shootings have spawned a cottage industry promoting and enshrining the Second Amendment, but we’re throwing out the First?

I’m having some violent fantasies of my own.

Sailboat

13

[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
Well, I don’t know the kid, but an “A” student, to me anyway, is probably socializing properly. He’s concentrating on a multitude of subjects in order to maintain those grades. He’s not the kid who’s obsessing or severely depressed. He’s probably a well-rounded kid.
[/QUOTE]

I quite agree.

I wasn’t quite as articulate as I’d meant to be, it seems.

I was trying to do two things: First to point out that there is often a lot of verbalizing of violence with teens and children, that doesn’t actually signify anything. The carole I’d mentioned was one I’d heard at, I think, every school I’d ever been to - it’s nominally a call to arson, but while I can think of scads of students who’ve sung it, I can’t think of a single school that’s been burned down.

Unless I can read the paper in question, I’m not going to be convinced that anything a HS student turns in, as a one-time incident, is going to be signifigant in any meaningful way. If there’s a repeating theme of violence, that would be something else - but a single work? Gad, I’d have been locked up myself!

Secondly, if the purpose of this action is to protect people, wouldn’t it make more sense to try to help the student, rather than hurting him with an arrest record? Especially since, whether one accepts it as an excuse or not, the sense of paranoia and isolation that Cho felt were contributing factors in his rampage? So - to prevent another kid from going off with guns, because he’s convinced everyone is out to get him, and that he can’t get along with anyone - let’s give him evidence to support the idea that everyone is out to get him?

BTW - I’m not sure that the last name Lee means what you seem to think it does. Albert and Allen don’t seem very Asian, to my mind. I’m not saying that it’s impossible that the family is of Asian ancestry, just that I’m not sure it’s fair to assume that they are, either.

14

OOh, sorry for the double post but I had to respond to something I read in the linked article:

Police admitted no individuals were named or threatened.

Okay, I’m going to type slowly so that the police in Illinois can keep up:

Police in the United States do not get to make that determination.

That’s it, really – there’s no real room for discussion. Absent specific threats, it doesn’t matter how alarmed the authorities are. They can be alarmed all they want – but they cannot “determine” something is alarming and they cannot arrest someone for it.

Tis was not a protective custody arrest – it did not take place immediately. It was purely punitive. They may want to do that, but they cannot do so in America.

Where are all the Second Amendment zealots who want guns in case the government becomes a tyranny? They’re missing their big chance.

Sailboat

15

[QUOTE=Sailboat]
Where are all the Second Amendment zealots who want guns in case the government becomes a tyranny? They’re missing their big chance.

Sailboat
[/QUOTE]

I’m one, actually. :wink:

16

Photo here. Also from that article -

The charge? "disorderly conduct"Disorderly conduct can be filed if someone’s actions alarm or disturb another enough to “provoke a breach of the peace,’’ McHenry County State’s Attorney Louis Bianchi said. “So far, we’re supportive’’ of the charge, he said.<<Bianchi’s actions alarm and disturb me. Can I have him charged with disorderly conduct?>>

Lee’s creative writing instructor — a first-year teacher — became so concerned when reading the essay Monday night that she called the Cary-Grove English Department chair, who then called the principal at home, said Community High School District 155 Supt. Jill Hawk. <<Personally, I’m willing to forgive a first year teacher for her over reaction, but not the over-reaction of the English Department chair, or of the principal.>>

Ed Yohnka, spokesman for the American Civil Liberties Union of Illinois, said that without knowing all the details of the essay, “You have to wonder whether [the charges were] an overreaction, given the events at Virginia Tech.’’

Normally, an essay done as homework would be “protected speech,’’ Yohnka said.

17

[QUOTE=Papermache Prince]
Photo here.
[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the photo. Doesn’t change my view: Lee as a surname doesn’t necessarily mean Asian descent.

It does, however, reinforce the thinking that these are a bunch of racist idiots. In addition to all the other errors they’ve gone through.

18

[QUOTE=OtakuLoki]
Thanks for the photo. Doesn’t change my view: Lee as a surname doesn’t necessarily mean Asian descent.

It does, however, reinforce the thinking that these are a bunch of racist idiots. In addition to all the other errors they’ve gone through.
[/QUOTE]

I didn’t mean to imply that he was necessarily Asian…just that the majority of Lees that I have known are Asian.

19

Also from Papermache Prince’s link:

“A Cary-Grove student who knows Lee described him as quiet and smart. “He was quiet, he wasn’t scary,” the student said.”

Spoken in the past tense, almost as if Lee’s rampage and subsequent suicide have already happened!

20

Unbelievable. I’d like to see the public reaction if the famous shooter and arrested innocent were both black.