This is for PETA, and all of their like-minded fellows

[Mujojo]

To start this hateful rant, I'd like to say that I had a husky as a pet, and when we had to put him down, it was a sad day for our family, so I'm not a cruel person. Now to the rage.

A girl in one of my classes brought up the point that we should treat animals with respect, because they have rights. I would have voiced my rather controversial opinion on this subject, but I felt I would've gotten too worked up about this, and it's better safe then sorry, no?

But seriously, animals should have NO rights. They are a part of nature taken outside their natural environment and designed to suit us human beings. Let's take dogs for instance, they make wonderful pets, so cute and furry, loyal, just damn good pets. But that is all they are, pets. I would never eat my dog or allow medical experiments to be used on him, because the dog was designed to be a pet, not food/lab rat. Pets are property that happens to be cute, nothing more.

Animals we use for food has been DESIGNED to taste good and efficiently store/produce the things we want from them. Cows are totally useless outside of a farmer's field, and chickens are the stupidest creatures alive. Veil is a thing these assholes like to bring up. Who cares how the baby cows are treated, I certainly don't. It's sole purpose in life is to sit chained to a pole in the ground and taste good (I've never had veil personally, too expensive, which is the reason I'm assuming it tastes good). The people who enjoy torturing animals though...they are sick fuckers. The libertarian in me says if it's their property, let them go at it, but to get off from a creature squealing in pain, fuck. But my position on those guys is, if they aren't harming animals that aren't theirs, it's their business.

Medical testing is what really gets me worked up though. Those sick fucking assholes think it's OKAY to keep a stupid rat alive, while letting HUMAN BEINGS die from ailments that could be prevented in the future by slaughtering countless numbers of these animals (even monkeys, if it takes 10 million monkeys dying in the next 6 months to cure cancer...see ya monkeys). Don't people realize pretty much ALL medicine is from animals? You can't type up in a computer what an experimental cancer drug will do to a person, and if you test it on a human while it's still in the alpha stages, that is just too risky, not to mention expensive (compensation, legal issues, side effects, etc).

Those people don't realize that the ONLY way we can possibly cure aids, cancer, diabetes, heart disease, blindness, etc, is by giving animals experimental medicine, watch them as they probably suffer and die, then write down the problems, and keep trying.

[DrDeth]

I might accept that animals do have one right- the right to be treated as humanely as possible, given their use and purpose. Thus, we should kill our food animals as painlessly as possible even if it costs a few pennies more. Experimental animals may be subject to experiments that are not nice at all- ut otherwise they are to be kept clean, well fed and comfortable. If the experiment causes pain, and we can alleviate that pain without changing the results then we do so.

Fuckers that mistreat and torment helpless aniamls are sickos in my book. But those PETA fuckheads aren't far behind.

[blinkingblinking]

We are allowed to say people are trolling now, yes? This guest seems incredibly mixed up. The post is close to incomprensible. Mujojo is either trolling or maybe he is 12 and cannot express himself.

[Bites When Provoked]

Veal. Not veil.

[enigm4tic]

Originally Posted by blinkingblinking

We are allowed to say people are trolling now, yes? This guest seems incredibly mixed up. The post is close to incomprensible. Mujojo is either trolling or maybe he is 12 and cannot express himself.

or so entirely outraged that he's lost all coherency.

[blinkingblinking]

Originally Posted by enigm4tic

or so entirely outraged that he's lost all coherency.

I cannot understand what he is outraged about. We all know PETA are idiots

[Sophistry and Illusion]

Originally Posted by Mujojo

Animals we use for food has been DESIGNED to taste good and efficiently store/produce the things we want from them. Cows are totally useless outside of a farmer's field, and chickens are the stupidest creatures alive. Veil is a thing these assholes like to bring up. Who cares how the baby cows are treated, I certainly don't. It's sole purpose in life is to sit chained to a pole in the ground and taste good (I've never had veil personally, too expensive, which is the reason I'm assuming it tastes good).

This is a weak-ass argument. You are assuming that if something was bred for a purpose, it is not cruel to use it for that purpose. How does that follow at all? If slave-owners selectively bred the strongest slaves together to make better slaves, does that mean you shouldn't give a shit that these people are slaves? Obviously, killing animals for the sake of food is not the same as human slavery, but I am just using this example to show that your argument is unsound.

Oh, and if you don't care how cruelly baby veal cows are treated, then you are a dick. Torturing animals to increase your profit margin instead of torturing animals for fun doesn't seem like a morally significant difference to me.

[blinkingblinking]

I would like to see this thread closed as it just seems like trolling. That is just my opinion. There is some good discussion that can be had on this topic. But this is not the OP to start with

[Gukumatz]

Then report it. Little red box in the corner.

Anyways, I'm not with the OP's argument line at all. While the term "rights" wouldn't come up that much over here in Norway, there are laws the prohibit unnecessary cruelty to animals and basically safeguard as much of a painless life as possible, even for for-slaughter cattle. And I like it that way.

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by Mujojo

...chickens are the stupidest creatures alive.

Look in the mirror, pal, for a glimpse at something that gives them a run for their money.

[Liberal]

Originally Posted by blinkingblinking

I would like to see this thread closed as it just seems like trolling.

You have got to be joking. Seriously.

[Caridwen]

Animals we use for food has been DESIGNED to taste good and efficiently store/produce the things we want from them. Cows are totally useless outside of a farmer's field, and chickens are the stupidest creatures alive. Veil is a thing these assholes like to bring up. Who cares how the baby cows are treated, I certainly don't. It's sole purpose in life is to sit chained to a pole in the ground and taste good (I've never had veil personally, too expensive, which is the reason I'm assuming it tastes good).

What's our purpose? I'd venture to say there are insects and animals that serve more of a purpose than we do. What do we contribute to the planet? A bee contributes more than we do.

[Rick]

Welcome to the SDMB Mujojo. As you can see the pit is tough place particularly on Sunday morning before the locals have had their coffee.

While many (most?) of us agree with you that PETA is a bunch of whackjobs, you will find that calm reasoned arguments will get you further than half crazed hand waving.

Since you are a guest and can't search here are a few former threads on PETA:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...highlight=PETA
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...highlight=PETA
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...highlight=PETA
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...highlight=PETA

Enjoy your stay, I hope you decide to hang around.

[Liberal]

Originally Posted by Caridwen

What's our purpose? I'd venture to say there are insects and animals that serve more of a purpose than we do. What do we contribute to the planet? A bee contributes more than we do.

Could you please restate your position using only buzzing noises?

[Anaamika]

PETA are a bunch of whackjobs. I find it sad that the biggest proponents of animals rights are generally assholes, cowards, liars, and ignorant. And I know - I work for the March of Dimes and PETA has its own very special page on us.

We just had a Walk today and someone snuck a protesting sign in the walk and ran. They didn't even try to protest - they just stuck it in the grass, and happened to stick it far from the route, so I don't even think the walkers saw it.

As to cows/chickens/pigs/dogs I do find it extremely hypocritical of the West to criticize the East for eating dogs or what-have-you. If India asked the whole world to stop eating cows, the world would laugh at them. I'm not sure why it's OK for the West to tell everyone not to eat dogs! They may be cute here but not elsewhere.

As to the rest of it, I think DrDeth said it:

I might accept that animals do have one right- the right to be treated as humanely as possible, given their use and purpose. Thus, we should kill our food animals as painlessly as possible even if it costs a few pennies more. Experimental animals may be subject to experiments that are not nice at all- ut otherwise they are to be kept clean, well fed and comfortable. If the experiment causes pain, and we can alleviate that pain without changing the results then we do so.

[Caridwen]

Originally Posted by Liberal

Could you please restate your position using only buzzing noises?

bbbzzzzzzzzzz I was weeding yesterday and saw a bunch of bee's in the yard. Always reminds me of spring. I have bees on the brain.

[athelas]

Ouch. That's gotta hurt. (Although, upon reflection, I realized that the brain has no pain receptors, so maybe it won't hurt. The mental image is still painful, though.)

[Caridwen]

Originally Posted by Anaamika

PETA are a bunch of whackjobs. I find it sad that the biggest proponents of animals rights are generally assholes, cowards, liars, and ignorant. And I know - I work for the March of Dimes and PETA has its own very special page on us.

It really is a shame because they didn't start out so wacky. They made a left turn into Crazytown.

A few years ago there was a show on 20/20 or 60 Minutes about a vet that mistreated a dog and the vet assistant had a video of him hitting the dog. It was revealed that the vet assistant was a member of PETA and the case against the vet went out the window.

[BluePitbull]

Originally Posted by Caridwen

It really is a shame because they didn't start out so wacky. They made a left turn into Crazytown.

A few years ago there was a show on 20/20 or 60 Minutes about a vet that mistreated a dog and the vet assistant had a video of him hitting the dog. It was revealed that the vet assistant was a member of PETA and the case against the vet went out the window.

Why should the fact that , "the vet assistant is a PETA member", be relavent to the case? If the vet mistreated the dog and the assistant got him on tape, why throw the case out the window?

And no, I am not a PETA member.

[Contrapuntal]

Originally Posted by Caridwen

bbbzzzzzzzzzz I was weeding yesterday and saw a bunch of bee's in the yard. Always reminds me of spring. I have bees on the brain.

(Firesign Theatre)Yes, understanding the complex problems of todays' world is a bit like having bees live in your head. But, there they are!(/Firesign Theatre)

[Ludovic]

Originally Posted by Anaamika

If India asked the whole world to stop eating cows, the world would laugh at them. I'm not sure why it's OK for the West to tell everyone not to eat dogs!

Hmmm, when did this happen? I don't recall seeing any criticisms of this outside of comedy in the past.....okay, ever.

[CaerieD]

At this point, isn't PETA it's own strawman? They are so ridiculously over the top, to complain about them as an example of those supporting animal rights is akin to complaining about Fred Phelps as an example of Christianity.

From their March of Crimes page:

With the worthy goal of preventing birth defects, the March of Dimes collects millions of dollars in donations annually. But most donors who generously open their pocketbooks are unaware that their gifts help to fund painful experiments on animals. The March of Dimes has funneled millions of dollars into laboratory studies on primates, rats, mice, cats, dogs, rabbits, pigs, sheep, guinea pigs, opossums, and members of other animal species.

Both animals and human babies are the losers, because every dollar spent to harm these animals is a dollar that could have—and should have—been used to help people.

No, you fools, the animal experiments are being used to help people. Do you think that labs that do this kind of work just experiment on animals for fun? They get funding because they have results. If they don't get results, they don't get funding. Therefore, they are trying to get results, regardless of how they feel about the animals. But, to explore the issue in a complex and thoughtful way, which is what it deserves, would take away PETA's attention whoring hyperbole and they would prefer to be seen as crazy and obnoxious, because it gets them more attention. Just like Fred Phelps.

[Kneepants Erasmus, the Humanist]

You know.....there are assholes in EVERY. SINGLE. ORGANIZATION. ON. EARTH.

Generalizing is fought against on this board except for when it's referring to animal rights supporters and/or PETA members.

So, Mujojo (and pretty much everyone else in this thread, it appears), animals were designed for humans to use? Then, they were designed with brains and nervous systems so that they could feel pain when we are using them? If someone thinks this is wrong they are a "whackjob"? I don't believe in intelligent design bullshit, but if there is a god that commands us to kill other living beings and designs them so that they feel pain, that is nothing I would want to have anything to do with.

I quit. It doesn't matter what the fuck I say.

[Contrapuntal]

Originally Posted by Kneepants Erasmus, the Humanist

You know.....there are assholes in EVERY. SINGLE. ORGANIZATION. ON. EARTH.

Generalizing is fought against on this board except for when it's referring to animal rights supporters and/or PETA members.

There may be PETA members who are just plain old regular good folk, I don't know, but the organization is batshit crazy. This from an animal lover, who would much rather spend time with his dogs than just about any human on Earth.

[Autolycus]

Originally Posted by Kneepants Erasmus, the Humanist

I quit. It doesn't matter what the fuck I say.

The hamsters send their thanks.

Anyway, anecdote-time. I used to live with a PETA member who was a complete nutjob. I'm too lazy to give a compleat rundown, but one choice example of his lame bullshit was his claiming to be vegan and then eating eggs. "I'm an ovo-vegan." No, you are vegetarian you fuckwit.

[Ethilrist]

Originally Posted by Mujojo

Medical testing is what really gets me worked up though. Those sick fucking assholes think it's OKAY to keep a stupid rat alive, while letting HUMAN BEINGS die from ailments that could be prevented in the future by slaughtering countless numbers of these animals (even monkeys, if it takes 10 million monkeys dying in the next 6 months to cure cancer...see ya monkeys).

Have you considered the possibility that we were designed to die? If animals were designed to be tasty, and we're designed to die, aren't you worred that some day we'll get in trouble for killing all these animals without eating them?

[ITR champion]

Originally Posted by Mujojo

Medical testing is what really gets me worked up though. Those sick fucking assholes think it's OKAY [sic] to keep a stupid rat alive, [sic] while letting HUMAN BEINGS [sic] die from ailments that could be prevented in the future by slaughtering countless numbers of these animals (even monkeys, if it takes 10 million monkeys dying in the next 6 months to cure cancer... [sic] see ya monkeys).

Can you provide an example to justify this charge? No? I didn't think so, because miserable liars like you generally can't.

Don't people realize pretty much ALL medicine is from animals?

Probably not, since it's impossible to "realize" something that isn't true.

You can't type up in a computer what an experimental cancer drug will do to a person

Really. That's funny, since people are already doing that. Can you provide an explanation of why we can't do something that we've already been doing for a generation? What's that, you say? No, you can't justify this lie either? What a surprise!

Those people don't realize that the ONLY way we can possibly cure aids [sic], cancer, diabetes, heart disease, blindness, etc, [sic] is by giving animals experimental medicine, watch [sic] them as they probably suffer and die, then write [sic] down the problems, and keep [sic] trying.

Well gee, since it's that easy, I expect that you'll be handing us the cures for AIDS, cancer diabeters, heart disease, blindness, etc... Right? Can we get a specific date on when your brilliant method will produce these cures?

Mujojo, I'm going to show you something that you've apparently never seen before in your entire miserable excuse for a life: facts. Here is an article with the self-explanatory title of Animals Research is Wasteful and Misleading in Scientific American. It refutes your moronic claim that torturing animals leads to medical breakthroughs and proves that the exact opposite is true. The more opportunity that scientists have to experiment on animals, the more they waste time and money on cures that will never be relevant to human beings.

If you had the slightest taste of brainpower or human decency, I would ask you to retract your false claims and apologize for your nasty slanders. As it is, since you're clearly sub-human scum, I know that would be a complete waste of time. In fact, I'd bet a fair amount of resources that you'll never return to this thread to face the utter humiliation of being proved so totally wrong. Perhaps you'll never even return to this forum. I can't say I blame you. People at your mental level should learn not to approach their betters.

Good day.

[lissener]

Mujojo, what were you designed for?

[Heffalump and Roo]

Originally Posted by lissener

Mujojo, what were you designed for?

BBQ in the Pit?

[Cat Whisperer]

ITR Champion and everyone else who is insulting him, Mujojo is a guest and probably not familiar with the Dope and the concept of intellectual rigour (and how things can go in the Pit). Do you think you could consider being a little more courteous and work on fulfilling our mission statement of fighting ignorance, instead of just being insulting and rude? This OP was a golden opportunity to educate someone, not crucify them and send them packing for the hills.

[enigm4tic]

ITR is there any reason why you used [sic] 9 times when none of things appear to be typos?

[August West]

As someone that raises and butchers the animals that my family and I eat, I do think that more people should have a better understanding about where meat comes from and how the animal was treated during it's life. I can understand not wanting to, but it seems to me that the price you should pay for eating meat is to kill an animal yourself at least once in your life.

I am amused when PeTA members argue with me about meat eating though. A good friend who is a member was haranguing me when we first started raising pigs, I made her come visit our farm and see the happiest damn pigs in North America, running around their huge pasture, wagging their tails, and being hand-fed big bunches of grapes. All of her arguments kinda fell apart at that point.

[Lute Skywatcher]

Originally Posted by ITR champion

Can you provide an example to justify this charge? No? I didn't think so, because miserable liars like you generally can't.

Apparently the OP is unaware that some of PETA's leaders are diabetic and use medicine that was created via animal testing.

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

Originally Posted by enigm4tic

ITR is there any reason why you used [sic] 9 times when none of things appear to be typos?

They weren't typos, they were errors of composition suggesting a less-than-firm grasp on the ability to express oneself coherently in written English.

[Baldwin]

Originally Posted by ITR champion

Here is an article with the self-explanatory title of Animals [sic] Research is Wasteful and Misleading in Scientific American.

Actually, it's "Animal Research", not "Animals Research", in case anybody wants to do their own search.

That article was one of a pair of pro and con articles on the subject published in that issue (February 1997) of Scientific American. The other article was called "Animal Research is Vital to Medicine". I can't find a link to the full text of that article, but here's an essay on the subject by its authors: http://members.iinet.com.au/~rabbit/unscian.htm. You might want to read that as well. It looks like a concise refutation of the claims made in the other article.

[Sean Factotum]

Originally Posted by Contrapuntal

There may be PETA members who are just plain old regular good folk, I don't know, but the organization is batshit crazy. This from an animal lover, who would much rather spend time with his dogs than just about any human on Earth.

A friend of mine was. She worked for them for a few years at their headquarters in Norfolk, and even became vegetarian along the way. She joined up with them because she didn't like how elephants were reportedly treated in zoos and circuses. She quit about two years ago because of all the crazy people she had to deal with on a daily basis at the office. So from what she has said about her experience in that organization, it's not really a generalization.

[Cat Whisperer]

Originally Posted by August West

As someone that raises and butchers the animals that my family and I eat, I do think that more people should have a better understanding about where meat comes from and how the animal was treated during it's life. I can understand not wanting to, but it seems to me that the price you should pay for eating meat is to kill an animal yourself at least once in your life.

I am amused when PeTA members argue with me about meat eating though. A good friend who is a member was haranguing me when we first started raising pigs, I made her come visit our farm and see the happiest damn pigs in North America, running around their huge pasture, wagging their tails, and being hand-fed big bunches of grapes. All of her arguments kinda fell apart at that point.

I have no moral problems with eating meat, but I would like the meat I eat to be treated humanely before being slaughtered and processed (I mean, ideal world here). I don't like the idea that because animals don't have cognitive abilities like humans that they should be mis-treated as insensate objects. I understand that YOUR family is looking after your food animals properly, but I have no idea about the meat I buy at Safeway, and I'm almost afraid to find out.

Isn't most insulin from pigs, too?

[BrightNShiny]

I think the OP is just as nuts as PETA.

[kidchameleon]

Originally Posted by enigm4tic

ITR is there any reason why you used [sic] 9 times when none of things appear to be typos?

So we know who our 'betters' are and return to find people of our own mental level. I'm sure one of my betters can work a Blazing Saddles joke around that.

[ArizonaTeach]

Originally Posted by EddyTeddyFreddy

They weren't typos, they were errors of composition suggesting a less-than-firm grasp on the ability to express oneself coherently in written English.

Oh, bullshit. It made perfect sense, if a little histrionic, and as far as I could tell, was perfectly acceptable by Pit standards (although I guess the Keepers of Pit Perfection prefer bold, italics, or underlining instead of caps for emphasis. I can dig it). Go ahead and explain to me each of those errors of composition.

Sure, the guy's gonna get stomped on, but the [sic] thing, yeah, let's have an explanation for that.

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

Originally Posted by ArizonaTeach

Oh, bullshit. It made perfect sense, if a little histrionic, and as far as I could tell, was perfectly acceptable by Pit standards (although I guess the Keepers of Pit Perfection prefer bold, italics, or underlining instead of caps for emphasis. I can dig it). Go ahead and explain to me each of those errors of composition.

Sure, the guy's gonna get stomped on, but the [sic] thing, yeah, let's have an explanation for that.

To wit:

Those people don't realize that the ONLY way we can possibly cure aids AIDS[sic], cancer, diabetes, heart disease, blindness, etc, etc.,[sic] is by giving animals experimental medicine, watch watching[sic] them as they probably suffer and die, then write writing[sic] down the problems, and keep [sic] trying continuing to try.

Just for starters.

Fuckwit.

[Sean Factotum]

Originally Posted by featherlou

Isn't most insulin from pigs, too?

And Ingrid Newkirk, co-founder and president of PETA, is reportedly diabetic.

[Robot Devil] How ironic! [/RD]

[Lute Skywatcher]

Originally Posted by Sean Factotum

And Ingrid Newkirk, co-founder and president of PETA, is reportedly diabetic.

[Robot Devil] How ironic! [/RD]

Not to mention hypocritical.

AFAIK, she's not the only one among PETA's top brass on insulin, either.

[BluePitbull]

Originally Posted by Sean Factotum

And Ingrid Newkirk, co-founder and president of PETA, is reportedly diabetic.

[Robot Devil] How ironic! [/RD]

Isn't most insulin used by diabetics today, synthetic? That wouldn't be hypocritical, right?

[Lute Skywatcher]

Originally Posted by BluePitbull

Isn't most insulin used by diabetics today, synthetic? That wouldn't be hypocritical, right?

Insulin as we know it wouldn't even exist if it weren't for German scientists experimenting on dogs two centuries ago.

[Lute Skywatcher]

One century ago, sorry.

[A Monkey With a Gun]

Originally Posted by Autolycus

one choice example of his lame bullshit was his claiming to be vegan and then eating eggs. "I'm an ovo-vegan."

I kinda like that. I'm going to start describing myself as a "carnovolactic vegan".

[Ogre]

Originally Posted by lissener

Mujojo, what were you designed for?

To drop a troll turd in the Pit, and then run away, never showing his face again.

[enigm4tic]

Originally Posted by EddyTeddyFreddy

To wit:

Those people don't realize that the ONLY way we can possibly cure aids AIDS[sic], cancer, diabetes, heart disease, blindness, etc, etc.,[sic] is by giving animals experimental medicine, watch watching[sic] them as they probably suffer and die, then write writing[sic] down the problems, and keep [sic] trying continuing to try.

Just for starters.

Fuckwit.

I second Arizona Tech. For the sake of argument, the english wasn't perfect, but a sentence in a quote is obviously all [sic] anyways, and furthermore, it was not a series of independent errors, but a consistent sentence structure (all the same tense, even if it was technically wrong) that a lot of people seem to use. I parse the sentence just fine with the consistent tensing, even if it isn't technically correct. The pedantic use of [sic] is a cause for , especially when the argument fails on its own merits.

[DrDeth]

Originally Posted by EddyTeddyFreddy

To wit:

Those people don't realize that the ONLY way we can possibly cure aids AIDS[sic], cancer, diabetes, heart disease, blindness, etc, etc.,[sic] is by giving animals experimental medicine, watch watching[sic] them as they probably suffer and die, then write writing[sic] down the problems, and keep [sic] trying continuing to try.

Just for starters.

Fuckwit.

Damn, look who found a blue pencil. Too bad the job of "annoying corrector of minor errors" isn't open, you'd be a cinch.